Turbulators on Club-Libelle

[Christoph Barniske]

Hi,

has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
(it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I believe)?

thanks

[Tim Mara]

Ron Baker in Australia did this some years back along with some testing and
evaluations....it was published in the Australian gliding magazine ...sorry
can't remember what month/year
someone down under should be able to tell you more and get you a copy of
this article....I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me the 55-60% cord
was about right for this early airfoil...
hopefully Ron himself is watching and can respond....if so."Hi Ron!" :-)
tim

"Christoph Barniske" > wrote in message
...
> Hi,
>
> has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
> (it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I believe)?
>
> thanks
>

[Ulrich Neumann]

Christoph Barniske > wrote in message >...
> Hi,
>
> has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
> (it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I believe)?
>
> thanks

Christoph,

try the Libelle Owners Group on Yahoo under

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/libellesailplanes/

or ask Jansjörg Streifeneder in Germany at

http://www.streifly.de/home.html

Ulrich Neumann
Libelle H301'GM'

[Olfert Cleveringa]

Hello,

since some time, Hansjörg Streifeneder has been offering winglets for
Libelles and Hornets. Has any of you tried this out and can give some
experiences?

Like Christoph I would be interested in turbulators and other things to keep
the Hornet nice and possibly even better.

Thanks, Olfert.

Christoph Barniske schreef:

> Hi,
>
> has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
> (it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I believe)?
>
> thanks

[Christoph Barniske]

Hi Olfert,

I already asked Hansjörg Streifeneder for the correct turb-position. He
wrote that the existing results of the airflow-testing of the
libelle-airfoil are somewhat different from the calculations. On a
standard-cirrus website (www.standardcirrus.org) I saw some very
interesting testing results of the standard-cirrus airfoil. In these
tests there was a quite large seperation bubble on the wing top surface.
The outer wing of the standard-cirrus has the same wortmann-airfoil like
the libelle.

Christoph


Olfert Cleveringa schrieb:

> Hello,
>
> since some time, Hansjörg Streifeneder has been offering winglets for
> Libelles and Hornets. Has any of you tried this out and can give some
> experiences?
>
> Like Christoph I would be interested in turbulators and other things to keep
> the Hornet nice and possibly even better.
>
> Thanks, Olfert.
>
> Christoph Barniske schreef:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
>>(it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I believe)?
>>
>>thanks
>
>

[Aspley Nursery]

I have flown last year a Hornet of some friends with turb tapes and
winglets. Although it was nota comparative test I must say that it seemed
much better than the standard aircraft.

This was in therms of all speeds and I believe handling.

I won't offer the owners names without permission but if you wish to talk
directly get back to me.

There is a Std Libelle flying in Australia with winglet but not sure of the
performance changes.

Robert Percy

"Olfert Cleveringa" > wrote in message
...
> Hello,
>
> since some time, Hansjörg Streifeneder has been offering winglets for
> Libelles and Hornets. Has any of you tried this out and can give some
> experiences?
>
> Like Christoph I would be interested in turbulators and other things to
keep
> the Hornet nice and possibly even better.
>
> Thanks, Olfert.
>
> Christoph Barniske schreef:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
> > (it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I
believe)?
> >
> > thanks
>

[Tim Mara]

I owned the first Hornet (Carbon Hornet) to be fitted with the Streifeneder
"Libelle" winglets (this glider can be seen on the SSA Directory), until
then the winglets were designed and intended for the 201 Libelle only... The
Streifeneder kit was exceptional BTW!, very complete right down the rubber
gloves for doing the glass work...I also installed turbulators using the
suggested location tested by Ron Baker on his Club Libelle..
The Turbulators made no "noticeable" improvement though I never did any
testing before or after, the winglets definitely did improve handling,
especially at low thermal speeds. The Hornet does BTW share the same wing as
the Club Libelle and neither of these gliders share the same wing as the 201
or 301 Libelle....
I have also spoken to others who have flown the 201 Libelle with these same
winglets and all claim a significant improvement in handling..as for
performance improvements in L/D I doubt they or the turbulators will make
very large improvements....but, improving low speed handling does improve
overall performance making climbs easier and then of course better. None of
the performance testing done by anyone ever has measures of real everyday
performance, meaning climb, low speed in turns or achieved climbs in choppy
thermals so we rarely discuss these factors when evaluating gliders and they
are of course all significant factors in overall performance.
Turbulators are cheap and easy to install so regardless of any large
improvement can be a useful experiment.
I always enjoyed the Libelle despite it's somewhat touchier handling, it is
not difficult, just requires a bit more feel and "dancing".....the Hornet
was a wonderful sailplane, easy handling, very forgiving and really just all
around a great flying ship...before and especially after adding the
winglets.
tim
"Aspley Nursery" > wrote in message
...
> I have flown last year a Hornet of some friends with turb tapes and
> winglets. Although it was nota comparative test I must say that it seemed
> much better than the standard aircraft.
>
> This was in therms of all speeds and I believe handling.
>
> I won't offer the owners names without permission but if you wish to talk
> directly get back to me.
>
> There is a Std Libelle flying in Australia with winglet but not sure of
the
> performance changes.
>
> Robert Percy
>
> "Olfert Cleveringa" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hello,
> >
> > since some time, Hansjörg Streifeneder has been offering winglets for
> > Libelles and Hornets. Has any of you tried this out and can give some
> > experiences?
> >
> > Like Christoph I would be interested in turbulators and other things to
> keep
> > the Hornet nice and possibly even better.
> >
> > Thanks, Olfert.
> >
> > Christoph Barniske schreef:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > has anyone informations about improving the performance of the Libelle
> > > (it has the same wing-profile as the Hornet and Club-Libelle, I
> believe)?
> > >
> > > thanks
> >
>
>

[Shoulbe]

Is the Hornet the twin of the Mini-Nimbus? I'd heard that the Mini had a
fairly close if not identical companion by another manufacturer. Is it the
Hornet? I'm interested for optimization of my Mini. Thanks to whomever may
address this.

[Kevin Neave]

When Glasfluggle folded Schempp Hirth used the Mosquito
wing for the original 'Glass' Mini Nimbus

They also used the auto-connect system for the Ailerons
for the Mini, Ventus, Discus. If you look closely the
Elevator connection for the Schempp gliders is also
the same as that on the Libelle

At 15:36 22 January 2004, Shoulbe wrote:
>Is the Hornet the twin of the Mini-Nimbus? I'd heard
>that the Mini had a
>fairly close if not identical companion by another
>manufacturer. Is it the
>Hornet? I'm interested for optimization of my Mini.
> Thanks to whomever may
>address this.
>

[Tim Mara]

No......the Hornet was a standard class (non-flapped) variation of the
Mosquito but did not share the same wing, the Hornet used a Wortmann FX
66-17, the Mosquito and copy, the Mini-Nimbus used a Wortmann FX 67-K-1 50 .
The Mini-Nimbus and all later Schempp-Hirth gliders also copied many
Glasflugel innovations including some manufacturing techniques, automatic
connections of controls and stabilizer and dive brakes used on Mini-Nimbus,
Nimbus and Ventus. Later the Glasflugel 304 though similar to, and based on
the Mosquito type certificate was yet another very different glider in many
ways and was completed using a totally new HQ wing design. After the death
of Glasflugel owner and inventor Eugene Hanle, and under the new ownership
of Holighaus from Schempp-Hirth and prior to his closing of the Glasflugel
company many Glasflugel innovations were copied and are included on all
later Schempp-Hirth designs including modifications on some using a
modification the HQ airfoil.
tim

"Shoulbe" > wrote in message
...
> Is the Hornet the twin of the Mini-Nimbus? I'd heard that the Mini had a
> fairly close if not identical companion by another manufacturer. Is it
the
> Hornet? I'm interested for optimization of my Mini. Thanks to whomever
may
> address this.