New Sailplanes For the American Soaring Market?

[Dan Dawson]

The value of the US dollar compared to the Euro has dropped 24% during the
past year. Therefore the price of sailplanes manufactured in Europe has
risen a corresponding 24%. In fact, a similar impact is being felt in all
countries outside Europe.

Will this end the purchase of new sailplanes by Americans - and others?

Will the European manufacturers die - like LS?

Is our soaring sport on the way to extinction?

[tango4]

Scary thought but if the damned dollar doesn't do something soon the
European manufacturing centre may well become focussed on the eastern block
countries. Their prices just happen to be about 20% lower than the Germans!
Of course the cost of Euopean goods may well have to come down to continue
to export into the U.S. too.

Ian



"Dan Dawson" > wrote in message
...
> The value of the US dollar compared to the Euro has dropped 24% during the
> past year. Therefore the price of sailplanes manufactured in Europe has
> risen a corresponding 24%. In fact, a similar impact is being felt in all
> countries outside Europe.
>
> Will this end the purchase of new sailplanes by Americans - and others?
>
> Will the European manufacturers die - like LS?
>
> Is our soaring sport on the way to extinction?
>
>

[Janusz Kesik]

Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as =
long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
Just count it...

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[Vorsanger1]

Eureopean manufacture will not die. The actual manufacture will just move to
areas of lower costs...just like "back office" jobs of US companies are
acutally located in India and the Philippines. This already in place as the
production of "German" gliders is actually taking place in Slovenia and other
countries. Also, I would imagine that there is a large enough demand in Europe
to keep companies in business for a while longer, at least until the cycle is
completed, the Euro drops, US$ strengthens, and Americans start buying
sailplanes again...

Cheers, Charles

[Eric Greenwell]

Janusz Kesik wrote:

> Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
> Just count it...

Maybe the Europeans should take advantage of the strong Euro and buy
sailplanes from an American manufacturer: Windward Performance, with
it's SparrowHawk, priced in dollars!

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[John Galloway]

Are fluctuations in the American market that critical
to the German manufacturers? I genuinely don't know
- but America is a fairly small gliding country (with
a roughly similar number of glider pilots to UK that
has 20% of the US population) compared to the whole
of Europe. There are still long waiting lists for
'German' gliders.

John Galloway

At 14:36 10 January 2004, Vorsanger1 wrote:
>Eureopean manufacture will not die. The actual manufacture
>will just move to
>areas of lower costs...just like 'back office' jobs
>of US companies are
>acutally located in India and the Philippines. This
>already in place as the
>production of 'German' gliders is actually taking place
>in Slovenia and other
>countries. Also, I would imagine that there is a large
>enough demand in Europe
>to keep companies in business for a while longer, at
>least until the cycle is
>completed, the Euro drops, US$ strengthens, and Americans
>start buying
>sailplanes again...
>
>Cheers, Charles
>

[Tim Mara]

you might want to let the Geman manufacturers know this!
they apparently are unaware of this waiting list....
tim

"John Galloway" > wrote in
message ...
There are still long waiting lists for
> 'German' gliders.
> John Galloway
>

[Janusz Kesik]

They aren't seem to be convinced about that it's a good deal and still =
are buying the european gliders without any currency risks from which =
suffer imports addicted economies. :)

JK

[Liam Finley]

"Dan Dawson" > wrote in message >...
> Will this end the purchase of new sailplanes by Americans - and others?
>
> Will the European manufacturers die - like LS?
>
> Is our soaring sport on the way to extinction?

Even more worrisome, I've heard rumors that the sky is falling.

The sky falling will have a terrible effect on soaring, and all other
forms of aviation.

[Charles Yeates]

Certainly our current crop of sailplanes can last at least thirty years

Liam Finley wrote:
> "Dan Dawson" > wrote in message >...
>
>>Will this end the purchase of new sailplanes by Americans - and others?
>>
>>Will the European manufacturers die - like LS?
>>
>>Is our soaring sport on the way to extinction?
>
>
> Even more worrisome, I've heard rumors that the sky is falling.
>
> The sky falling will have a terrible effect on soaring, and all other
> forms of aviation.

[JohnD]

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as
> long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
> Just count it...

The problem is: What percentage of the materials comprising a glider
from Poland come from EU countries? As I understand it a significant
amount of the manufacturing cost comes from materials in the EU.

[Bert Willing]

Materials cost is not thus important, it makes up for 20-25% of the
manufacturing cost. The rest is manhours and amortization of development
cost.

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"JohnD" > a écrit dans le message de
m...
> "Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message
>...
> > Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as
> > long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
> > Just count it...
>
> The problem is: What percentage of the materials comprising a glider
> from Poland come from EU countries? As I understand it a significant
> amount of the manufacturing cost comes from materials in the EU.

[Janusz Kesik]

There's also a large amount of materials which were produced locally. =
Note also the labour cost isn't counted in Euros, but in Polish Zloty.

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

> The problem is: What percentage of the materials comprising a glider
> from Poland come from EU countries? As I understand it a significant
> amount of the manufacturing cost comes from materials in the EU.

[Janusz Kesik]

U=BFytkownik Asbjorn Hojmark > w wiadomooci do grup =
dyskusyjnych =
napisa=B3:6cr500decc9qomk4l1e23v5pri8qkqigg1@news. cybercity.dk...
> On 12 Jan 2004 09:05:17 -0800, (JohnD) wrote:

> Oh, and many of the eastern european countries will be EU soon:
> "Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania,
> Malta, Poland, the Slovak Republic, and Slovenia are set to join
> on 1st May 2004. [...] Bulgaria and Romania hope to do so by
> 2007". (europa.eu.int).

To some point, You're right, but joining the European Union doesn't mean =
joining the Euro zone automatically. Poland will switch from Polish =
Zloty to Euro no sooner than in 2009 or 2010.

JK

[F1y1n]

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as
> long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
> Just count it...
>
> Regards,

Mr. Kesik,
would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5
and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away from' category.
Nobody cares.
Thank you.

[Vorsanger1]

It is interesting to note that the response to Janusz Kesik's post was crude,
rude....and anonymous.

Cheers anyhow, Charles

[Mike Reyes]

Mr. Kesik has pride in the sailplanes produced by his native Poland.
If my US was producing gliders which matched the current Polish
standard, this forum would be filled with American nationalistic
pride. View a Diana in person and it might change your mind about
Polish standards.

BTW The same Mr. Kesik ripped me a new a**hole when I made a misguided
attempt at humour on this forum. At the same time I did talk a buddy
into buying a Foka 4!

>
> Mr. Kesik,
> would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
> worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5
> and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away from' category.
> Nobody cares.
> Thank you.

[Janusz Kesik]

U=BFytkownik F1y1n > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych =
le.com...

> Mr. Kesik,
> would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
> worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5
> and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away from' category.
> Nobody cares.
> Thank you.

Sorry, but Your post is really at the floor level, and not worth any =
comment more than "thank you too".
If the only Pole you met is a bricklayer or dishwasher, then it's your =
loss.

Thank you.


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[JJ Sinclair]

>would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
>worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5

I just added another name to my, DO NOT READ LIST >>>fLY1N<<<<
JJ Sinclair

[Markus Gayda]

Janusz Kesik schrieb:
> U¿ytkownik F1y1n > w wiadomooci do grup dyskusyjnych .com...
>
>
>>Mr. Kesik,
>>would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
>>worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5
>>and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away from' category.
>>Nobody cares.
>>Thank you.
>
>
> Sorry, but Your post is really at the floor level, and not worth any comment more than "thank you too".
> If the only Pole you met is a bricklayer or dishwasher, then it's your loss.

Well..... what do have against bricklayers? :-)

They have lots more brain and honor than our little "friend" here.

Hmm... just take a look at the Lak 17... niiiiceeeee ship.

CU
Markus

[G.Kurek]

What exactly did you mean by "..sky is falling..."? Is this another
"brilliant" idea of Bush's administration?

(Liam Finley) wrote in message >...
> "Dan Dawson" > wrote in message >...
> > Will this end the purchase of new sailplanes by Americans - and others?
> >
> > Will the European manufacturers die - like LS?
> >
> > Is our soaring sport on the way to extinction?
>
> Even more worrisome, I've heard rumors that the sky is falling.
>
> The sky falling will have a terrible effect on soaring, and all other
> forms of aviation.

[G.Kurek]

I CARE! And I certainly do not care about posts from some punk that is
too scared to put his name under.

Caring

Gregg J. Kurek

(F1y1n) wrote in message >...
> "Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> > Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz, or SZD-55 at least as
> > long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
> > Just count it...
> >
> > Regards,
>
> Mr. Kesik,
> would you please shut up about your useless Polish gliders? Not one
> worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with your 'stars' PW-5
> and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away from' category.
> Nobody cares.
> Thank you.

[F1y1n]

(Mike Reyes) wrote in message >...
> Mr. Kesik has pride in the sailplanes produced by his native Poland.
> If my US was producing gliders which matched the current Polish
> standard, this forum would be filled with American nationalistic
> pride.

I live in the greatest country in the history of mankind, and hell am
I proud of it. Do I state it in my every other post? I do not bring up
American gliders in every post, because, as we all know, they are not
competitive. I wish Mr. Kesik realized the same about Polish gliders.
No amount of 'nationalistic pride' will fix the PW5.

[F.L. Whiteley]

"F1y1n" > wrote in message
om...
> (Mike Reyes) wrote in message
>...
> > Mr. Kesik has pride in the sailplanes produced by his native Poland.
> > If my US was producing gliders which matched the current Polish
> > standard, this forum would be filled with American nationalistic
> > pride.
>
> I live in the greatest country in the history of mankind, and hell am
> I proud of it. Do I state it in my every other post? I do not bring up
> American gliders in every post, because, as we all know, they are not
> competitive. I wish Mr. Kesik realized the same about Polish gliders.
> No amount of 'nationalistic pride' will fix the PW5.

Perhaps, but choice of the PW-5 as the World Class glider was not a Polish
decision. FWIW, I had partial ownership of an Jantar Std 2 for a short
while and found it as nimble as my DG-100 and an honest 40/1 glider and
comfortable also. Though the trim and undercarriage lever seemed a bit
gash, I've recommended this glider to more than one happy owner while
warning them of known issues. FWIW, I wouldn't recommend a PW-5 in this
part of the US, because penetration into wind is fairly important.

However, although Mr. Kesik reminds us that the Polish production pricing is
in Zlotys, all of the websites' pricing appears in Euros. My most recent
check indicates that the price of the Junior seems to float, but I haven't
checked pricing often. If this is indeed the case, they should perhaps
advertise in multiple currencies; euros, dollar, and UK pound.

Frank Whiteley
Colorado

[Kevin Neave]

At 04:06 26 January 2004, F1y1n wrote:
>I live in the greatest country in the history of mankind,
>and hell am
>I proud of it.

... And here was I thinking you lived in the US

:-)

[Ben Flewett]

I agree with this guy and will put my name to it.
However, the PW5 it is not the fault of the Poles.
They did a good job given the parameters they had
to work within.

The PW5 class has proven itself a failure but I still
believe in the concept of the World Class. The PW5
has failed because most competition pilots want to
fly decent ship.



At 00:00 25 January 2004, G.Kurek wrote:
>I CARE! And I certainly do not care about posts from
>some punk that is
>too scared to put his name under.
>
>Caring
>
>Gregg J. Kurek
>
(F1y1n) wrote in message news:...
>> 'Janusz Kesik' wrote in message news:...
>> > Maybe it's time to switch to SZD Diana, Puchacz,
>>>or SZD-55 at least as
>> > long as the Poland isn't in the Euro zone?
>> > Just count it...
>> >
>> > Regards,
>>
>> Mr. Kesik,
>> would you please shut up about your useless Polish
>>gliders? Not one
>> worthwile glider has ever come out of Poland, with
>>your 'stars' PW-5
>> and Junior belonging to the 'run, do not walk away
>>from' category.
>> Nobody cares.
>> Thank you.
>

[303pilot]

"F1y1n" > wrote in message
om...
> I live in the greatest country in the history of mankind, and hell am
> I proud of it. Do I state it in my every other post? I do not bring up
> American gliders in every post, because, as we all know, they are not
> competitive. I wish Mr. Kesik realized the same about Polish gliders.

I'd take a Diana in a heartbeat.

Then again, I'm from Texas, not the good ol' USA of that Yale-y carpetbagger
can't-believe-it but-he-makes-Clinton-look-good Bush.
BTW--we called him shrub while he was governor.

[Stewart Kissel]

>I'd take a Diana in a heartbeat.
>
>Then again, I'm from Texas, not the good ol' USA of
>that Yale-y carpetbagger
>can't-believe-it but-he-makes-Clinton-look-good Bush.
>BTW--we called him shrub while he was governor.
SNIP

Thats why the majority of us didn't vote for him :).


Back to the Diana, any pics are reports on the rewinged,
50-1+ version?

[Janusz Kesik]

> Back to the Diana, any pics are reports on the rewinged,
> 50-1+ version?

I have only heard that the first flights are scheduled for summer '04. =
I'll post any info as soon as it becomes official. :)

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[Jack Wyman]

"Janusz Kesik" > wrote in message >...
> > Back to the Diana, any pics are reports on the rewinged,
> > 50-1+ version?
>
> I have only heard that the first flights are scheduled for summer '04.
> I'll post any info as soon as it becomes official. :)
>
> Regards,


Bogumil Beres, designer of the Diana and the Diana 2, will be speaking
at the SSA convention in Atlanta next week. And it's 52, not 50, to 1.
Incredible. If this glider were called "ASW-30", it would be
back-ordered for years. There must be a lesson there somewhere...
Jack Wyman
Diana s/n 001

[Janusz Kesik]

U=BFytkownik Jack Wyman > w wiadomooci do grup =
dyskusyjnych=20

> Bogumil Beres, designer of the Diana and the Diana 2, will be speaking
> at the SSA convention in Atlanta next week. And it's 52, not 50, to 1.
> Incredible. If this glider were called "ASW-30", it would be
> back-ordered for years. There must be a lesson there somewhere...
> Jack Wyman
> Diana s/n 001

I call it "paying for a sticker" which in most cases are very =
profitable, but not for an owner of "famous" branded product, but for =
the producer whose profits increase seriously. I keep fingers crossed =
for new Diana's success, and I hope there will be more people who =
compare the price and what they get without looking at the sticker which =
is put on the fuselage.

Regards,


--=20
Janusz Kesik

visit www.leszno.pl - home of the www.css-leszno.it.pl

[Robert Ehrlich]

F1y1n wrote:
> ...
> I live in the greatest country in the history of mankind, and hell am
> I proud of it.
> ...

A country where a majority of people are unable to realize that
people of other countries don't always master your native
language may hardly be qualified as the greatest country in
the history of mankind. A young French tourist recently
spent 20 days in jail for such a reason.

Sorry if you feel threatened or insulted by my above post,
this is not my intention, but as English is also not
my native language, misunderstanding may again occur.
Happily nobody can put me into jail for that where I am
now.

[Jack]

On 2/3/04 10:14 AM, in article , "Robert Ehrlich"
> wrote:


> ...people of other countries don't always master your native
> language....

> A young French tourist recently
> spent 20 days in jail for such a reason.

Cite?

Do you mean Ali Al-Maqtari, the Yemeni (who speaks French and English)?


-----
Jack
-----

[Marc Ramsey]

Jack wrote:

> "Robert Ehrlich" > wrote:
>>...people of other countries don't always master your native
>>language....
>
>>A young French tourist recently
>>spent 20 days in jail for such a reason.
>
>
> Cite?
>
> Do you mean Ali Al-Maqtari, the Yemeni (who speaks French and English)?

No, he means Franck Moulet, who spent 20 days in Rykers Island, because
an American Airlines flight attendant trying to roust him out of the
head just before landing, mistook some common French words for a
terrorist threat. See:



but of course, like most of us, you probably can't read French.

Marc

[George William Peter Reinhart]

Marc.
Fortunately most of the world doesn't have to, since English is the
official language of aviation and de facto the language of international
commerce: and since my primary interest is gliders and other things
technical, I'm expending a bit of effort to learn a little German.
Cheers!

Marc Ramsey > wrote in article
>...
> Jack wrote:
>
> > "Robert Ehrlich" > wrote:
> >>...people of other countries don't always master your native
> >>language....
> >
> >>A young French tourist recently
> >>spent 20 days in jail for such a reason.
> >
> >
> > Cite?
> >
> > Do you mean Ali Al-Maqtari, the Yemeni (who speaks French and English)?
>
> No, he means Franck Moulet, who spent 20 days in Rykers Island, because
> an American Airlines flight attendant trying to roust him out of the
> head just before landing, mistook some common French words for a
> terrorist threat. See:
>
>
>
> but of course, like most of us, you probably can't read French.
>
> Marc
>