Instructor medical currency

[Stewart Kissel]

'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
the instructor cannot be.'

I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there
and cannot find a link to register to post. This is
not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking
this question:

If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if
the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then
instructor does not need a current annual?
Curious about this.

[Stewart Kissel]

Sorry, should have but location is USA.


At 15:36 13 January 2004, Stewart Kissel wrote:
>'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
>of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
>must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
>the instructor cannot be.'
>
>I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there
>and cannot find a link to register to post. This is
>not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking
>this question:
>
>If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
>the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if
>the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then
>instructor does not need a current annual?
>Curious about this.
>
>
>
>

[Judy Ruprecht]

At 15:36 13 January 2004, Stewart Kissel wrote:
>'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
>of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
>must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
>the instructor cannot be.'

First and foremost, bear in mind that this situation
arises in the US only in aircraft categories which
require medical certificates. In the US, it has nothing
whatsoever to do with gliders.

Per US regulations, your example hinges on 61.23(b)(5),
which expands on the provisions of 61.23(a)(3)(iv).
A second class medical (with 12-month duration) would
otherwise apply to a CFI in airplanes, helicopters,
et al, if he/she is being compensated.

>If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
>the instructor is not the pilot in command?

Correct in the scenario you outline. Per 61.51(e)(3),
the CFI can log PIC time and, if the BFR pilot is sole
manipulator of the controls per 61.51(e)(1)(i), the
BFR pilot can also log PIC time for the same flight(s).
In such cases, however, only the BFR pilot is authorized
to ACT as PIC.

(Just guessing... this could raise some interesting
liability issues in the event of an accident.)

>And if the pilot receiving the BFR is still current,
>then
>instructor does not need a current annual?

This is correct, if by 'annual' you refer to the second
class medical certificate otherwise required in order
for a CFI in airplanes, rotorcraft, et al to act as
PIC and be compensated. (I believe the same exception
would also apply to a CFI's expired third class medical
if the CFI is neither acting as PIC nor being compensated.)


Judy

[Skip Guimond]

The CFI does not require a medical to instruct--but there must always
be a fully qualified PIC. In your senario you are correct in that if
the certificated pilot receiving traing is current the CFI does not
need a medical. The BFR presents a problem since the non-medicaled
CFI cannot legally act as safety pilot during hood work since he/she
is the PIC at that time. One way out is to do this work in actual
conditions as long as the pilot receiving training is current to act
as PIC in IMC.

Skip Guimond

Complicated--eh!!

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> 'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
> of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
> must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
> the instructor cannot be.'
>
> I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there
> and cannot find a link to register to post. This is
> not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking
> this question:
>
> If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
> the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if
> the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then
> instructor does not need a current annual?
> Curious about this.

[Andy Durbin]

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> 'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
> of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
> must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
> the instructor cannot be.'
>
> I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there
> and cannot find a link to register to post. This is
> not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking
> this question:
>
> If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
> the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if
> the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then
> instructor does not need a current annual?
> Curious about this.

That's correct. In such a case the flight review could not include
simulated instrument flight since the instructor, or safety pilot,
must be qualified to act as pilot in command while the pilot flying is
under the hood. (For gliders no medical is required so the situation
does not apply.)


Andy
CFII, and poster of the quoted message

[Kirk Stant]

Stewart Kissel > wrote in message >...
> 'An airplane instructor may exercise the privileges
> of that certificate without a medical. The 'student'
> must be qualified to ACT as pilot in command since
> the instructor cannot be.'
>
> I cut this from the ASA discussion group, I lurk there
> and cannot find a link to register to post. This is
> not an attempt to backdoor the poster, just asking
> this question:
>
> If a pilot is still current while receiving a BFR,
> the instructor is not the pilot in command? And if
> the pilot receiving the BFR is still current, then
> instructor does not need a current annual?
> Curious about this.

Stewart,

Try sending some email to or
, the ASA webmaster (Nigel Cripps) should be able
to help you. I think there is some provision for non-ASA member
postings, but not sure what the procedure is.

Or send us $40 and become a member of ASA!

Kirk

[Ivan Kahn]

"Skip Guimond" > wrote in message
om...
> The CFI does not require a medical to instruct--but there must always
> be a fully qualified PIC. In your senario you are correct in that if
> the certificated pilot receiving traing is current the CFI does not
> need a medical. The BFR presents a problem since the non-medicaled
> CFI cannot legally act as safety pilot during hood work since he/she
> is the PIC at that time. One way out is to do this work in actual
> conditions as long as the pilot receiving training is current to act
> as PIC in IMC.
>
> Skip Guimond
>
> Complicated--eh!!

Flying under the hood does not make the CFI the PIC - so long as the flight
is conducted in VMC and the "student" is approximately rated he remains PIC.
The actual got ya is that a "safety pilot" is technically an SIC and, as a
pilot he must hold medical. Of course CFIs log all their time as PIC when
they are instructing. Yeah - complicated!

Ivan

[Andy Durbin]

Judy Ruprecht > wrote in message
>
> Per US regulations, your example hinges on 61.23(b)(5),
> which expands on the provisions of 61.23(a)(3)(iv).
> A second class medical (with 12-month duration) would
> otherwise apply to a CFI in airplanes, helicopters,
> et al, if he/she is being compensated.

I won't often risk contradicting Judy on matters of regulation
but.....

FAA AFS600 does not share this opinion on the requirement for a class
2 medical.
The class 2 is required to exercise the privileges of a commercial
certificate but not to exercise the privileges of an instructor
certificate.

Ref: http://afs600.faa.gov/AFS640.htm and click on the FAQ 14 CFR,
Part 61 link

The linked word document includes, among answers to many questions you
never even thought to ask, the following:


QUESTION: Does a CFI even need a medical certificate to give flight
training?

ANSWER: Ref. § 61.23; Depends on the situation. The medical
requirements for a CFI are found in § 61.23.

Reference § 61.3(c)(2)(iv) and § 61.23(b)(5); No, when exercising
the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is NOT
acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight
crewmember.

Reference § 61.3(c)(1) and § 61.23(a)(3)(iv) Yes, at least a current
3rd class medical certificate when giving instruction to a student
pilot (instructor must be PIC), to anyone while that person is using
a view limiting device (instructor is the safety pilot), or to a pilot
that is not rated in the aircraft (e.g., while preparing a pilot for
multiengine, sea-plane, type rating, etc., the instructor must be the
PIC).

QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive
compensation for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a
third class medical, or maybe does not even hold a current medical
certificate at all?

ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a
flight instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give
flight and ground training and be compensated for it. In the preamble
of the parts 61 and 141 final rule that was published in the Federal
Register on April 4, 1997 (62 FR 16220-16367) when the FAA revised the
entire Part 61, the FAA stated the following in the Federal Register
on page 16242 in response to whether a medical certificate is required
for a flight instructor to give ground and flight training:

" With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight
instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a
certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not
compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for
the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as
pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving
compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the
privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who
is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and
receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not
carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or
she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an
aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a
certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of
providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or
function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or
exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a
valid medical certificate under the FARs."

In case anyone is wondering what this has to do with gliding, it
started because the preliminary accident report on a recent fatal
midair stated that the owner/instructor of the airplane had no
medical.


Andy

[BTIZ]

> In case anyone is wondering what this has to do with gliding, it
> started because the preliminary accident report on a recent fatal
> midair stated that the owner/instructor of the airplane had no
> medical.
>
>
> Andy

Owner of the "airplane" or owner of the "glider", if it's the glider.. the
fact that the instructor did not have a medical is moot... he does not need
one.

BT

[Judy Ruprecht]

At 05:36 14 January 2004, Andy Durbin wrote:
>I won't often risk contradicting Judy on matters of
>regulation
>but.....

I stand corrected - a CFI who provides instruction
without acting as PIC does not need any medical certificate.
(It's a little obscure, tucked away in the preamble
to 1997 rulemaking.) I shoulda checked the FAQ before
spouting off so hastily.

Judy