G103 Acro airbrake handle

[Andy Durbin]

I would like to know the approximate position of the front seat
airbrake handle with wheel brake applied. If you are familiar with a
G103 front cockpit please give me an estimate of the position such as
"just past vertical" "45 deg past vertical" etc.

Reason for the post is that my wife finds it impossible to apply wheel
brake in the G103 front seat. It had been a long time since I had
been in the front of a G103 and I found it very awkward as well. I
could only get the wheel brake to come on if I turned my wrist
backwards. It's like pushing backwards and downwards rather than
pulling.

In that glider the handle is 45 deg or more aft of vertical to apply
the wheel brake. Is this typical or is something out of adjustment?

Someone will probably ask about pilot height and build so my wife is 5
ft 9in, medium build, and works out far more than I do. She has no
problem with brakes in my ASW 19 or our clubs G102.

thanks

Andy

[Chris OCallaghan]

Andy, if memory serves it is about 3/4 deflection... for my seat
position that's just before vertical. (It's been a while since I've
flown a 103 from the front seat.) Smaller people using cushions often
don't have the leverage to get the handle fully back. I've seen some
place their forearm on the handle to get a little more leverage, and
in extreme cases let go of the stick and reach across to use both
hands. It takes a good bit of force to engage the brake fully. It's
not difficulat for a male in a good seat position (right mix of
leverage and strength), but can be very challenging for a small-framed
woman.

One solution is to use rudder pedal blocks to extend them. It gets you
into a seat position with better leverage on the spoiler handle. If
you experiment with this, make sure they are absolutely secure and
don't interfere with anything through full pedal movement.




(Andy Durbin) wrote in message >...
> I would like to know the approximate position of the front seat
> airbrake handle with wheel brake applied. If you are familiar with a
> G103 front cockpit please give me an estimate of the position such as
> "just past vertical" "45 deg past vertical" etc.
>
> Reason for the post is that my wife finds it impossible to apply wheel
> brake in the G103 front seat. It had been a long time since I had
> been in the front of a G103 and I found it very awkward as well. I
> could only get the wheel brake to come on if I turned my wrist
> backwards. It's like pushing backwards and downwards rather than
> pulling.
>
> In that glider the handle is 45 deg or more aft of vertical to apply
> the wheel brake. Is this typical or is something out of adjustment?
>
> Someone will probably ask about pilot height and build so my wife is 5
> ft 9in, medium build, and works out far more than I do. She has no
> problem with brakes in my ASW 19 or our clubs G102.
>
> thanks
>
> Andy

[Shirley]

Chris OCallaghan wrote:

>Smaller people using cushions often don't have
>the leverage to get the handle fully back. [snip]
>It takes a good bit of force to engage the brake
>fully. It's not difficulat for a male in a good seat
>position (right mix of leverage and strength), but
>can be very challenging for a small-framed woman.

I have had four flights in the G103A. I am 5'1", 108#, and use cushions. I can
*barely* muscle open the airbrakes all the way on the ground during preflight,
and it is quite challenging, to say the least, on rollout...I have to sort of
shift/turn upper body toward the left to do so. I have a similar situation in
the 1-26, as I am so short that I have the seatback up as far as it will go to
reach the peddles (can't use the bottom cushion made for the plane with the
seatback in that position because it gets in the way of the stick!), and
opening the divebrakes all the way ends up being an interesting, awkward
contortion. Worth it, though!!
:-)

--Shirley

[JJ Sinclair]

>I would like to know the approximate position of the front seat
>airbrake handle with wheel brake applied.

Andy,
The wheel brake on the G-103 is set so that it comes on just before the air
brakes are fully open. If you move the wheel brake starting point forward, you
won't be able to get full air brake deflection. I would stay with the factory
specs and adjust seating position to allow full use of all controls.
JJ Sinclair

[Ted Wagner]

I'm 5'11" but my arms are a bit long for my height, and I've always found it difficult to pull the airbrake handle on the G103 past 70% or so, which is about where my left elbow runs out of room. At that point, I have to slide my hand forward over the top of the handle and use my wrist to pull it back any further, and more than once I've slipped doing this maneuver and let the airbrakes close completely, making for some interesting final approaches.

I once asked one of the CFIGs where I fly about attaching a handle extension of some type to the airbrake handle, but the response I got was that a supplemental type certificate would be required.

It's all enough trouble that I don't fly the G103 unless all the 1-seaters are taken. And I can't wait until I own my own one o' them ...

-ted

[Chris OCallaghan]

I missed Andy's paragraph about his wife's height.

Inseam length is also important. The longer your legs, the further
back you can sit and the more leverage you can muster. Perhaps
bringing the rudder pedals all the way back, then adjust the headrest
and cushions to suit... this might get her in a better position to
handle the brakes.

[Andy Durbin]

(JJ Sinclair) wrote in message >...
> >I would like to know the approximate position of the front seat
> >airbrake handle with wheel brake applied.
>
> Andy,
> The wheel brake on the G-103 is set so that it comes on just before the air
> brakes are fully open. If you move the wheel brake starting point forward, you
> won't be able to get full air brake deflection. I would stay with the factory
> specs and adjust seating position to allow full use of all controls.
> JJ Sinclair

Hi JJ,

Yes I'm aware of all that. I wasn't proposing to change anything
since it's not my glider. I don't have any factory specs so all I
wanted to know was the typical handle position when the wheel brake
comes on. The relationship between airbrake extension and wheel brake
operating point is not a problem.

Changing the seating position will not solve the problem. I can't
work the wheel brake effectively with the seat all the way back. I'm
over 6ft tall.


Andy

[Avron Tal]

I too have this problem. Pulling the handle back, at some point it is
hard for me to get it more backwards. Not because the force is needed
but because no moment in sitting an arm position.
If on the rollout it is hard to prograsly pull the brack, try closing
(move the handke forward) and then at one all the way back.

Avron

[Chris OCallaghan]

Andy,

If you are having trouble as well as your wife, you might try moving
your hand to the base of the brake handle and wedging your forearm
against the top of the handle. This gives a little more room for your
elbow to move back. Women don't typically have the shoulder strentgh
to accuate the brake this way, but I've seen a few average size guys
do it.

[James]

Many folks in our club complain of weak brakes in our G103. I did
some investigating and talking to other people familiar with the G103
and learned that the master cylinder is a BMW motorcycle part and that
a full resevoir of fluid makes a noticable improvement in braking vs.
filling to the minimum line visible in the inspection window.
Unfortunately, the screws to remove the resivoir cap were corroded and
"welded" in place so I could not test this theory myself. You'll need
a small mirror to see the window as it is installed near a bulkhead.
Also, it seemed on our ship that the braking lever on the master
cyclinder could move further back and apply significant more braking
force even when the spoiler handle was deployed in its full back
position. The swage that activates the brake mechanism seemed too far
forward IMO to reach maximum braking pressure.

[JJ Sinclair]

>The swage that activates the brake mechanism seemed too far
>forward IMO to reach maximum braking pressure.

We are talking about exactly *what* constitutes the full open spoiler *stop*.
If the wheel break is set too far forward, then the spoiler open stop becomes
the *hard breaking* position of the spoiler handle. If the spoilers hit the
full open stops(located in each wing), before full wheel braking has occurred,
then you won't get all the wheel brake that is available in a properly adjusted
systen.
Solution; Set the wheel break to its maximum (full hard aft pull of spoiler
handle) so that the spoiler actuating arms (in each spoiler box) are about 10
mm from hitting their stops.
JJ Sinclair

[Martin Gregorie]

On 18 Jan 2004 18:31:00 GMT, (JJ Sinclair) wrote:

>>The swage that activates the brake mechanism seemed too far
>>forward IMO to reach maximum braking pressure.
>
>We are talking about exactly *what* constitutes the full open spoiler *stop*.
>If the wheel break is set too far forward, then the spoiler open stop becomes
>the *hard breaking* position of the spoiler handle. If the spoilers hit the
>full open stops(located in each wing), before full wheel braking has occurred,
>then you won't get all the wheel brake that is available in a properly adjusted
>systen.
>Solution; Set the wheel break to its maximum (full hard aft pull of spoiler
>handle) so that the spoiler actuating arms (in each spoiler box) are about 10
>mm from hitting their stops.

This will also avoid wing damage that might result from using the
in-wing brake stops. Our G103A experienced some cracking at the ends
of the upper surface brake slot before the linkage was adjusted so the
in-wing limits were not reached.

I flew the aircraft in question today - and made a fairly well-braked
stop. The fully deployed air-brake & wheel brake lever position is
about a 45 degree angle to the rear. Thinking back about the flight, I
tend to push down on the knob to get decent wheel braking.

HTH

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Bruce Hoult]

In article >,
(James) wrote:

> Many folks in our club complain of weak brakes in our G103. I did
> some investigating and talking to other people familiar with the G103
> and learned that the master cylinder is a BMW motorcycle part

Hmm.

Having owned a few BMW motorcycles, they had *crap* brakes up until the
K series starting in 1983. And they only got really *good* braking
systems once they starting building them for optional ABS in 1987 or so.

-- Bruce