LS4 aileron gap seal and mylar seal width

[Eric Foertsch]

A couple questions.

I had ailerons removed for refinishing and now looking at maintenance manual to see what is needed for the gap seal. The maintenance manual indicates using double sided adhesive to glue non-adhesive gap seal between wing and aileron.

I could have sworn though that the gap seal was installed more like the right hand diagram at http://wingsandwheels.com/tapes-seals.html - which shows using adhesive backed gap seal tape.

I didn't see anything in glider log book about the gap seal being replaced, so was wondering if the factory gap seal might have changed over time.

Would it be OK to use the adhesive gap seal tape? And if so what width?

The advantage would be the ailerons can be put back on by A/P and I can apply the gap seal and Mylar seal myself at a later time.

With the double sided adhesive/non-adhesive gap seal tape I would have to have it at installed on wing before the ailerons get put back on.

Also does anyone know the proper width of the mylar seal? The former owner had replaced the mylar seals and I just want to double check the proper width was used. I could not find a reference in the manual for the proper width.

Thanks

Eric

[Andrew[_9_]]

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 12:43:29 PM UTC+10, Eric Foertsch wrote:
> A couple questions.
>
> I had ailerons removed for refinishing and now looking at maintenance manual to see what is needed for the gap seal. The maintenance manual indicates using double sided adhesive to glue non-adhesive gap seal between wing and aileron.
>
> I could have sworn though that the gap seal was installed more like the right hand diagram at http://wingsandwheels.com/tapes-seals.html - which shows using adhesive backed gap seal tape.
>
> I didn't see anything in glider log book about the gap seal being replaced, so was wondering if the factory gap seal might have changed over time.
>
> Would it be OK to use the adhesive gap seal tape? And if so what width?
>
> The advantage would be the ailerons can be put back on by A/P and I can apply the gap seal and Mylar seal myself at a later time.
>
> With the double sided adhesive/non-adhesive gap seal tape I would have to have it at installed on wing before the ailerons get put back on.
>
> Also does anyone know the proper width of the mylar seal? The former owner had replaced the mylar seals and I just want to double check the proper width was used. I could not find a reference in the manual for the proper width.
>
> Thanks
>
> Eric

Hi Eric,

Try this website, they sell the kits for different gliders
http://www.streifly.de/shop%20abdichtsaetze-e.htm

Andres

[Papa3[_2_]]

Hi Eric,

Couple of thoughts. First, the best place to discuss LS-specific topics (such as what width of mylar to use) is probably the LS-Gliders discussion group over on Yahoo. Lots of knowledge, diagrams, photos, etc.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LS-gliders/info

As far as your specific question, I've done LS4's both ways. The maintenance manual calls for internal, rolling S-Seals. They're kind of a pain to do, but they are very effective. Many competition-tuned LS4s have these plus the external, mylar, wiper seals. IIRC, the for the last set of mylar wiper seals I did on an LS4 I think I used 35MM. Someone else posted the link to Streifeneder; probably worth contacting them to see what's in their LS4 kit.

Erik Mann (P3)
Former LS4 owner/LS8 onwer




On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:43:29 PM UTC-4, Eric Foertsch wrote:
> A couple questions.
>
> I had ailerons removed for refinishing and now looking at maintenance manual to see what is needed for the gap seal. The maintenance manual indicates using double sided adhesive to glue non-adhesive gap seal between wing and aileron.
>
> I could have sworn though that the gap seal was installed more like the right hand diagram at http://wingsandwheels.com/tapes-seals.html - which shows using adhesive backed gap seal tape.
>
> I didn't see anything in glider log book about the gap seal being replaced, so was wondering if the factory gap seal might have changed over time.
>
> Would it be OK to use the adhesive gap seal tape? And if so what width?
>
> The advantage would be the ailerons can be put back on by A/P and I can apply the gap seal and Mylar seal myself at a later time.
>
> With the double sided adhesive/non-adhesive gap seal tape I would have to have it at installed on wing before the ailerons get put back on.
>
> Also does anyone know the proper width of the mylar seal? The former owner had replaced the mylar seals and I just want to double check the proper width was used. I could not find a reference in the manual for the proper width.
>
> Thanks
>
> Eric

[Eric Munk]

Don't mess about with seals. They can be fairly critical. Put in the
internal
aileron seals as they should be according to manufacturer. Just resealed
two
ls4s, only took two hours each to do re

The new manuals show very precise what needs to go where.

Eric

At 13:06 15 May 2017, Papa3 wrote:
>Hi Eric,
>
>Couple of thoughts. First, the best place to discuss LS-specific topics
>(s=
>uch as what width of mylar to use) is probably the LS-Gliders discussion
>gr=
>oup over on Yahoo. Lots of knowledge, diagrams, photos, etc. =20
>=20
>https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LS-gliders/info
>
>As far as your specific question, I've done LS4's both ways. The
>maintena=
>nce manual calls for internal, rolling S-Seals. They're kind of a pain
to
>=
>do, but they are very effective. Many competition-tuned LS4s have
these
>=
>plus the external, mylar, wiper seals. IIRC, the for the last set of
>my=
>lar wiper seals I did on an LS4 I think I used 35MM. Someone else
posted
>=
>the link to Streifeneder; probably worth contacting them to see what's
in
>=
>their LS4 kit. =20
>
>Erik Mann (P3)
>Former LS4 owne
>
>
>On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:43:29 PM UTC-4, Eric Foertsch wrote:
>> A couple questions.
>>=20
>> I had ailerons removed for refinishing and now looking at maintenance
>man=
>ual to see what is needed for the gap seal. The maintenance manual
>indicate=
>s using double sided adhesive to glue non-adhesive gap seal between wing
>an=
>d aileron.
>>=20
>> I could have sworn though that the gap seal was installed more like the
>r=
>ight hand diagram at http://wingsandwheels.com/tapes-seals.html - which
>sho=
>ws using adhesive backed gap seal tape.
>>=20
>> I didn't see anything in glider log book about the gap seal being
>replace=
>d, so was wondering if the factory gap seal might have changed over time.
>>=20
>> Would it be OK to use the adhesive gap seal tape? And if so what
width?=
>=20
>>=20
>> The advantage would be the ailerons can be put back on by A/P and I can
>a=
>pply the gap seal and Mylar seal myself at a later time.=20
>>=20
>> With the double sided adhesive/non-adhesive gap seal tape I would have
>to=
> have it at installed on wing before the ailerons get put back on.
>>=20
>> Also does anyone know the proper width of the mylar seal? The former
>owne=
>r had replaced the mylar seals and I just want to double check the proper
>w=
>idth was used. I could not find a reference in the manual for the proper
>wi=
>dth.
>>=20
>> Thanks
>>=20
>> Eric
>
>

[Eric Foertsch]

Thanks Andres

[Eric Foertsch]

Thanks Erik

[Papa3[_2_]]

Apparently this is an Eric(k) only thread :-)




On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:15:05 AM UTC-4, Eric Munk wrote:
> Don't mess about with seals. They can be fairly critical. Put in the
> internal
> aileron seals as they should be according to manufacturer. Just resealed
> two
> ls4s, only took two hours each to do re
>
> The new manuals show very precise what needs to go where.
>
> Eric
>
> At 13:06 15 May 2017, Papa3 wrote:
> >Hi Eric,
> >
> >Couple of thoughts. First, the best place to discuss LS-specific topics
> >(s=
> >uch as what width of mylar to use) is probably the LS-Gliders discussion
> >gr=
> >oup over on Yahoo. Lots of knowledge, diagrams, photos, etc. =20
> >=20
> >https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LS-gliders/info
> >
> >As far as your specific question, I've done LS4's both ways. The
> >maintena=
> >nce manual calls for internal, rolling S-Seals. They're kind of a pain
> to
> >=
> >do, but they are very effective. Many competition-tuned LS4s have
> these
> >=
> >plus the external, mylar, wiper seals. IIRC, the for the last set of
> >my=
> >lar wiper seals I did on an LS4 I think I used 35MM. Someone else
> posted
> >=
> >the link to Streifeneder; probably worth contacting them to see what's
> in
> >=
> >their LS4 kit. =20
> >
> >Erik Mann (P3)
> >Former LS4 owne
> >
> >
> >On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 10:43:29 PM UTC-4, Eric Foertsch wrote:
> >> A couple questions.
> >>=20
> >> I had ailerons removed for refinishing and now looking at maintenance
> >man=
> >ual to see what is needed for the gap seal. The maintenance manual
> >indicate=
> >s using double sided adhesive to glue non-adhesive gap seal between wing
> >an=
> >d aileron.
> >>=20
> >> I could have sworn though that the gap seal was installed more like the
> >r=
> >ight hand diagram at http://wingsandwheels.com/tapes-seals.html - which
> >sho=
> >ws using adhesive backed gap seal tape.
> >>=20
> >> I didn't see anything in glider log book about the gap seal being
> >replace=
> >d, so was wondering if the factory gap seal might have changed over time.
> >>=20
> >> Would it be OK to use the adhesive gap seal tape? And if so what
> width?=
> >=20
> >>=20
> >> The advantage would be the ailerons can be put back on by A/P and I can
> >a=
> >pply the gap seal and Mylar seal myself at a later time.=20
> >>=20
> >> With the double sided adhesive/non-adhesive gap seal tape I would have
> >to=
> > have it at installed on wing before the ailerons get put back on.
> >>=20
> >> Also does anyone know the proper width of the mylar seal? The former
> >owne=
> >r had replaced the mylar seals and I just want to double check the proper
> >w=
> >idth was used. I could not find a reference in the manual for the proper
> >wi=
> >dth.
> >>=20
> >> Thanks
> >>=20
> >> Eric
> >
> >

[Eric Munk]

Had a look in the MM pp 4.5 and 4.6 (European manual). It specifically
states that operation without aileron gaps seals is not allowed.

Chapter 4.2.1 (internal seals) and 4.2.2 (external seals) describes in
great detail how to seal the ailerons according to manufacturer's specs.

If you have an LS 4 or LS 4-a then apart from applying the internal S-seals
(mandatory for all models) you will need at least upper aileron gap seals
Tesafix 4965 (12 mm wide) with mylar seal convex (30 mm wide) and tesafilm
white 4104 (19 mm wide). Optionally for LS 4 and LS 4-a, and mandatory for
LS 4-b is the additional application of teflon glass tape (38 mm wide)
underneath the above mentioned upper aileron gap seals.

Lower aileron gaps seals are not needed.

[7C]

The new manuals from DG allow you to use teflon tape to provide the air seal with mylar running on top of it. I would recommend getting them and having a read as it has an accurate list of parts and good description on how to do it. You will probably want extra teflon tape as it's easy to get it wrong the first time...