USA and Security

[Nolaminar]

From a very good friend visiting us from Germany, it is interesting to hear his
perspective.
After a couple of hours at the FAA Offices to upgrade his US certificate and
seeing the security coming and going, he remarks:
" It is like the Soviet Union 20 years ago"
We know it's not quite that bad, but it does make me wonder.
GA

[Martin Gregorie]

On 12 Feb 2004 18:23:52 GMT, (Nolaminar) wrote:

>From a very good friend visiting us from Germany, it is interesting to hear his
>perspective.
> After a couple of hours at the FAA Offices to upgrade his US certificate and
>seeing the security coming and going, he remarks:
>" It is like the Soviet Union 20 years ago"
> We know it's not quite that bad, but it does make me wonder.
> GA

From a comparison of my visit to the Denver FSDO in October, 2001 and
to the Bulgarian Border Customs post, crossing from Romania, in
September, 1977 the difference is less than you might imagine.

In both cases the paperwork, when we got to it, was fast and
efficient.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[George Vranek]

I mean, it is completely OK, that the US security people still remember,
that some of september 11. terorists has studied on German universities and
entered USA with German students passports.

George

"Nolaminar" > wrote in message
...
> From a very good friend visiting us from Germany, it is interesting to
hear his
> perspective.
> After a couple of hours at the FAA Offices to upgrade his US certificate
and
> seeing the security coming and going, he remarks:
> " It is like the Soviet Union 20 years ago"
> We know it's not quite that bad, but it does make me wonder.
> GA

[Vaughn]

"George Vranek" > wrote in message
...
> I mean, it is completely OK, that the US security people still remember,
> that some of september 11. terorists has studied on German universities
and
> entered USA with German students passports.

....and then studied in USA flight schools. Your point?

Vaughn

[Andreas Maurer]

On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 23:46:04 +0100, "George Vranek"
> wrote:

>I mean, it is completely OK, that the US security people still remember,
>that some of september 11. terorists has studied on German universities and
>entered USA with German students passports.


.... where did that guy who did the Oklahoma building come from...!?

Bye
Andreas

[Steve]

(Nolaminar) wrote in message >...
> After a couple of hours at the FAA Offices to upgrade his US certificate and
> seeing the security coming and going, he remarks:

The thing I find most unusual is that the biggest precautions seem to
be at government offices. I cannot even go in to the Wichita FSDO
without calling them (at least they did put a phone inside the first
set of doors so you don't have to stand outside in the snow and rain),
telling who I want to see, and then having someone come and escort me
in. I think I had to sign in and out to just drop off my program
letter for one of my gliders last year. Guess this time I will use
the US Mail. Just as impersonal as the visit was (because of the
changes) and cheaper, too.

Maybe the government is afraid of being taken over by the people?

Steve Leonard

[Terrill D. Willard]

(Steve) wrote in message >...

> The thing I find most unusual is that the biggest precautions seem to
> be at government offices. I cannot even go in to the Wichita FSDO
> without calling them (at least they did put a phone inside the first
> set of doors so you don't have to stand outside in the snow and rain),
> telling who I want to see, and then having someone come and escort me
> in. I think I had to sign in and out to just drop off my program
> letter for one of my gliders last year. Guess this time I will use
> the US Mail. Just as impersonal as the visit was (because of the
> changes) and cheaper, too.
....
> Steve Leonard


I have worked in a building with this kind of security for the last 14
years. The difference is that it is in private industry. I forget
that other citizens are not used to carrying mulitple pass-cards and
keys to get into their place of business.

Visitors never come to our site unannounced. The guard would never
let them past the gate at the perimeter, and no one has attempted to
cross the 3meter high fences topped with razor wire....

Maybe government is finally catching up to the rest of us. ;)

I am just happy that this kind of security is not required at small GA
airports and gliderports....yet.

Terrill

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, (Terrill D. Willard) wrote:

> ...The difference is that it is in private industry...

Yes, that's a very big difference. Private buildings are operated
completely at the discretion of their private owners and operators.

On the other hand, government buildings are operated by our
government; a government that is of the people, for the people, and by
the people.

Bob K.

[Jack]

On 2/13/04 1:45 PM, in article
, "Bob Kuykendall"
> wrote:

> On the other hand, government buildings are operated by our
> government; a government that is of the people, for the people,
> and by the people.

[smirk, smirk]


-----
Jack
-----

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Terrill D. Willard" > wrote in message
om...
> (Steve) wrote in message
>...
>
> > The thing I find most unusual is that the biggest precautions seem to
> > be at government offices. I cannot even go in to the Wichita FSDO
> > without calling them (at least they did put a phone inside the first
> > set of doors so you don't have to stand outside in the snow and rain),
> > telling who I want to see, and then having someone come and escort me
> > in. I think I had to sign in and out to just drop off my program
> > letter for one of my gliders last year. Guess this time I will use
> > the US Mail. Just as impersonal as the visit was (because of the
> > changes) and cheaper, too.
> ...
> > Steve Leonard
>
>
> I have worked in a building with this kind of security for the last 14
> years. The difference is that it is in private industry. I forget
> that other citizens are not used to carrying mulitple pass-cards and
> keys to get into their place of business.
>
> Visitors never come to our site unannounced. The guard would never
> let them past the gate at the perimeter, and no one has attempted to
> cross the 3meter high fences topped with razor wire....
>
> Maybe government is finally catching up to the rest of us. ;)
>
> I am just happy that this kind of security is not required at small GA
> airports and gliderports....yet.
>
> Terrill
It's in progress at some airports. At the Government Liason presentation at
the convention, it was suggested that glider operators become proactive to
avert regulatory action; security audit, locked hangars, security officer,
etc.

Frank Whiteley

[George Vranek]

"Vaughn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George Vranek" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I mean, it is completely OK, that the US security people still remember,
> > that some of september 11. terorists has studied on German universities
> and
> > entered USA with German students passports.
>
> ...and then studied in USA flight schools. Your point?
>
> Vaughn
>
My point is as follows: If somebody with German passport will fly in the
USA, he must not wonder, that he will be checked much more closely, than
somebody with Canadien or Australien Passport. Remember, the war against
terorists is not finished.

George

[Howard]

(Terrill D. Willard) wrote in
om:

....
>
> Visitors never come to our site unannounced. The guard would never
> let them past the gate at the perimeter, and no one has attempted to
> cross the 3meter high fences topped with razor wire....
>

So, when do you expect to be paroled?

:-)

[Bruce Greeff]

Horse bolted, stable door, closing after.

Rearrange to your satisfaction.

F.L. Whiteley wrote:
> "Terrill D. Willard" > wrote in message
> om...
>
(Steve) wrote in message
>
> >...
>
>>>The thing I find most unusual is that the biggest precautions seem to
>>>be at government offices. I cannot even go in to the Wichita FSDO
>>>without calling them (at least they did put a phone inside the first
>>>set of doors so you don't have to stand outside in the snow and rain),
>>>telling who I want to see, and then having someone come and escort me
>>>in. I think I had to sign in and out to just drop off my program
>>>letter for one of my gliders last year. Guess this time I will use
>>>the US Mail. Just as impersonal as the visit was (because of the
>>>changes) and cheaper, too.
>>
>>...
>>
>>>Steve Leonard
>>
>>
>>I have worked in a building with this kind of security for the last 14
>>years. The difference is that it is in private industry. I forget
>>that other citizens are not used to carrying mulitple pass-cards and
>>keys to get into their place of business.
>>
>>Visitors never come to our site unannounced. The guard would never
>>let them past the gate at the perimeter, and no one has attempted to
>>cross the 3meter high fences topped with razor wire....
>>
>>Maybe government is finally catching up to the rest of us. ;)
>>
>>I am just happy that this kind of security is not required at small GA
>>airports and gliderports....yet.
>>
>>Terrill
>
> It's in progress at some airports. At the Government Liason presentation at
> the convention, it was suggested that glider operators become proactive to
> avert regulatory action; security audit, locked hangars, security officer,
> etc.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
>
>

[Michael McNulty]

"Bruce Greeff" > wrote in message
...
> Horse bolted, stable door, closing after.
>
> Rearrange to your satisfaction.
>
> F.L. Whiteley wrote:


When you have more than one horse, closing the door after one horse has left
the barn is a pretty damn sensible thing to do. It's called learning from
your mistakes.

[Terrill D. Willard]

Howard > wrote in message >...
> (Terrill D. Willard) wrote in
> om:
>
> ...
> >
> > Visitors never come to our site unannounced. The guard would never
> > let them past the gate at the perimeter, and no one has attempted to
> > cross the 3meter high fences topped with razor wire....
> >
>
> So, when do you expect to be paroled?
>
> :-)

In about 30 years when I retire!

Seriously, the only thing that bugs me is that we also have no
windows. In the winter I can go a week straight without seeing the
sun.

T

[Christian Husvik]

Hei,

Terrill D. Willard wrote:

> Seriously, the only thing that bugs me is that we also have no
> windows. In the winter I can go a week straight without seeing the
> sun.

So? I _have_ a window at work, and in the winter I can go a week
straight without seeing the sun ;-) During my military service we went
like a couple of _months_ without ever seeing a hint the sun, and we
spent most of our time outdoors! So there ;-)

Christian 8-)

[Bruce Greeff]

Christian Husvik wrote:
> Hei,
>
> Terrill D. Willard wrote:
>
>> Seriously, the only thing that bugs me is that we also have no
>> windows. In the winter I can go a week straight without seeing the
>> sun.
>
>
> So? I _have_ a window at work, and in the winter I can go a week
> straight without seeing the sun ;-) During my military service we went
> like a couple of _months_ without ever seeing a hint the sun, and we
> spent most of our time outdoors! So there ;-)
>
> Christian 8-)
>
Enough already - you guys are depressing us Southern Hemisphere types. We get
grumpy if the sun fails to make it on any given day, let alone week...

But then I suppose you folk don't understand the concept of "good rain" so I
suppose there is a balance.

[Terrill D. Willard]

Bruce Greeff > wrote in message >...
> Enough already - you guys are depressing us Southern Hemisphere types. We get
> grumpy if the sun fails to make it on any given day, let alone week...
>
> But then I suppose you folk don't understand the concept of "good rain" so I
> suppose there is a balance.

Bruce,
The only thing I would like more than living here (Arizona (300+ days
of sun per year), would be to live here in the summer and then live
down your way during our winter. I love the sun, its just the
stinking job that keeps me in the dark.

I shouldn't complain though. On friday I took a trainer out and
enjoyed 2-3 knot thermas to 4000ft agl for a good bit of the
afternoon. Temperatures were around 20 degrees C and it was beautiful
for a winter day. I can't wait for spring when the soaring gets
good......

And good rain in Arizona is ANY rain you can get. =)

T

[Vaughn]

"Christian Husvik" > wrote in message
...
> Hei,
>
> Terrill D. Willard wrote:
>
> > Seriously, the only thing that bugs me is that we also have no
> > windows. In the winter I can go a week straight without seeing the
> > sun.
>
> So? I _have_ a window at work, and in the winter I can go a week
> straight without seeing the sun ;-) During my military service we went
> like a couple of _months_ without ever seeing a hint the sun, and we
> spent most of our time outdoors! So there ;-)

Hey! I did something like that in the military also. Two months with
no sun and no windows, but always indoors. (submarine)

Vaughn


>
> Christian 8-)
>