Softie

[Ross[_3_]]

I have a Softie Mini that has just turned 20. My packer says he will not pack it again because the manufacturer says he can't. Nothing to do with the quality of the chute.
He was however nice enough to open the chute, and leave it that way.

Is there anyone out there that would like it?

Make a sensible offer

[Dan Marotta]

When my 42-year old Pioneer Thin Pack was no longer "packable", not due
to condition, just like yours, I donated it to my rigger who is involved
with a group that parachutes medical supplies into the Amazon jungle.
If you're interested in donating it for that purpose, send me a PM and
I'll send you his contact information.

On 6/14/2017 3:09 AM, Ross wrote:
> I have a Softie Mini that has just turned 20. My packer says he will not pack it again because the manufacturer says he can't. Nothing to do with the quality of the chute.
> He was however nice enough to open the chute, and leave it that way.
>
> Is there anyone out there that would like it?
>
> Make a sensible offer

--
Dan, 5J

[JS]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 2:09:18 AM UTC-7, Ross wrote:
> I have a Softie Mini that has just turned 20. My packer says he will not pack it again because the manufacturer says he can't. Nothing to do with the quality of the chute.
> He was however nice enough to open the chute, and leave it that way.
>
> Is there anyone out there that would like it?
>
> Make a sensible offer

Some reading on this subject.
http://www.parachuteshop.com/service_life_limits.htm

Ross, take the FAA letter on Don Mayer's website and your chute back to the rigger.
Jim

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 9:51:27 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 2:09:18 AM UTC-7, Ross wrote:
> > I have a Softie Mini that has just turned 20. My packer says he will not pack it again because the manufacturer says he can't. Nothing to do with the quality of the chute.
> > He was however nice enough to open the chute, and leave it that way.
> >
> > Is there anyone out there that would like it?
> >
> > Make a sensible offer
>
> Some reading on this subject.
> http://www.parachuteshop.com/service_life_limits.htm
>
> Ross, take the FAA letter on Don Mayer's website and your chute back to the rigger.
> Jim

That is very interesting reading indeed. Thanks Jim!

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 4:09:18 AM UTC-5, Ross wrote:
> I have a Softie Mini that has just turned 20. My packer says he will not pack it again because the manufacturer says he can't. Nothing to do with the quality of the chute.
> He was however nice enough to open the chute, and leave it that way.
>
> Is there anyone out there that would like it?
>
> Make a sensible offer

As someone getting ready to do cross country soaring, I would be very interested in the parachute. I would be willing to cover costs and whatnot.

ALex

[[email protected]]

So, after reading the Letter from the FAA and the service life limits addressed in the TSO, can we assume that the riggers and parachute manufacturers are essentially imposing a possibly illegal interpretation? If the manufacturer is not able to provide approved documentation that validates a 20 year life limit, as per the FAA's TSO (to which they agreed as part of the certification process), a rigger who refuses to repack an otherwise serviceable parachute could be accused of withholding required maintenance on a certified piece of aviation equipment.

Hmmm.... Release the Lawyers!

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 8:33:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> So, after reading the Letter from the FAA and the service life limits addressed in the TSO, can we assume that the riggers and parachute manufacturers are essentially imposing a possibly illegal interpretation? If the manufacturer is not able to provide approved documentation that validates a 20 year life limit, as per the FAA's TSO (to which they agreed as part of the certification process), a rigger who refuses to repack an otherwise serviceable parachute could be accused of withholding required maintenance on a certified piece of aviation equipment.
>
> Hmmm.... Release the Lawyers!

Do you want a packjob from someone compelled by lawyers to pack it for you? How'd those cakes turn out? Just find a new rigger, let the 20 yearer clowns go hungry.

[Craig Reinholt]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:33:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> So, after reading the Letter from the FAA and the service life limits addressed in the TSO, can we assume that the riggers and parachute manufacturers are essentially imposing a possibly illegal interpretation? If the manufacturer is not able to provide approved documentation that validates a 20 year life limit, as per the FAA's TSO (to which they agreed as part of the certification process), a rigger who refuses to repack an otherwise serviceable parachute could be accused of withholding required maintenance on a certified piece of aviation equipment.
>
> Hmmm.... Release the Lawyers!


Mark, I understand your viewpoint, but...

Source: Current Softie parachute manual
1.4 SERVICE LIFE
Independent testing of aged nylon materials has proven that its strength degrades over time, therefore, Para-Phernalia, Inc. and Free Flight Enterprises have established a 20-year service life from the date of component manufacture for the Softie Pilot Emergency System and the Preserve line of emergency parachutes.

So if you are a rigger, are you going to risk the liability of packing an old chute with this stated manufacturer limitation and then suffer the lawsuit when someone augers in even if the chute was packed perfectly and materials in satisfactory shape?
I think of McDonald's and wet floor cones in a perfectly dry bathroom. Starbucks printing "hot" on their cups. For a sole proprietor business, that lawsuit could be catastrophic. I personally support a riggers position and agree they shouldn't pack that old chute even if it inconveniences me.

[JS]

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:48:55 PM UTC-7, Craig Reinholt wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:33:23 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> > So, after reading the Letter from the FAA and the service life limits addressed in the TSO, can we assume that the riggers and parachute manufacturers are essentially imposing a possibly illegal interpretation? If the manufacturer is not able to provide approved documentation that validates a 20 year life limit, as per the FAA's TSO (to which they agreed as part of the certification process), a rigger who refuses to repack an otherwise serviceable parachute could be accused of withholding required maintenance on a certified piece of aviation equipment.
> >
> > Hmmm.... Release the Lawyers!
>
>
> Mark, I understand your viewpoint, but...
>
> Source: Current Softie parachute manual
> 1.4 SERVICE LIFE
> Independent testing of aged nylon materials has proven that its strength degrades over time, therefore, Para-Phernalia, Inc. and Free Flight Enterprises have established a 20-year service life from the date of component manufacture for the Softie Pilot Emergency System and the Preserve line of emergency parachutes.
>
> So if you are a rigger, are you going to risk the liability of packing an old chute with this stated manufacturer limitation and then suffer the lawsuit when someone augers in even if the chute was packed perfectly and materials in satisfactory shape?
> I think of McDonald's and wet floor cones in a perfectly dry bathroom. Starbucks printing "hot" on their cups. For a sole proprietor business, that lawsuit could be catastrophic. I personally support a riggers position and agree they shouldn't pack that old chute even if it inconveniences me.

The FAA position, if I understand legalese, is that the TSO that the chutes were certified under did not have a drop dead date and Para-Phernalia is trying to add a drop dead date by simply printing it in the manual.
The service life listed in the manual is considered a recommendation by the FAA, not a requirement. If Para-Phernalia wanted a life limit it should have been certified with a life limit, not under the TSO C-23b/c/d they used.
No need for legal representation, just common sense.
Ross, if it doesn't work in Austria can it be packed in Switzerland? Meet you at the Malabar Indian restaurant in Oerlikon? Noch eine Grosses Turbinenbräu, bitte.
Jim

[Duster]

What I read is that the manufacturer's manual can establish a service-life limit for a parachute, but if it is published as a replacement for an existing manual issued for a pre-dated parachute, then the manufacturer must file an SB.

Regardless, it seems a real stretch to think a rigger is compelled to repack a chute even only 5 years old, let alone one 20+ years. I assume they decide what risk they want to take, as long as it doesn't violate the regulations.

[Ross[_3_]]

Hey guys. Thanks for the responses
I might have found someone in Europe willing to repack it. Seems the rules here differ a little to the rules in the US but in the end if the packer is unwilling I am a little out of luck
If I can't sort it I am willing to donate to a junior for the cost of postage

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 7:17:42 AM UTC-5, Ross wrote:
> Hey guys. Thanks for the responses
> I might have found someone in Europe willing to repack it. Seems the rules here differ a little to the rules in the US but in the end if the packer is unwilling I am a little out of luck
> If I can't sort it I am willing to donate to a junior for the cost of postage

Ross,

I'm just a year over junior age but would still be interested as I start to go cross country.

[Dan Marotta]

My former rigger used the argument that a little bit of fuzz on the
edges of the crotch straps made my previous entire rig "unairworthy".
The fuzz was minimal and, to me, did not constitute a hazard. He did
not offer to replace the offending straps. Still, I'm happier with my
ram air chute and new rigger now.

On 6/14/2017 6:33 PM, wrote:
> So, after reading the Letter from the FAA and the service life limits addressed in the TSO, can we assume that the riggers and parachute manufacturers are essentially imposing a possibly illegal interpretation? If the manufacturer is not able to provide approved documentation that validates a 20 year life limit, as per the FAA's TSO (to which they agreed as part of the certification process), a rigger who refuses to repack an otherwise serviceable parachute could be accused of withholding required maintenance on a certified piece of aviation equipment.
>
> Hmmm.... Release the Lawyers!

--
Dan, 5J