2-33 to 1-26

[Jack]

I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
flown) to the 1-26.

What are the differences which should be emphasized?


-----
Jack
-----

[Vaughn]

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
> flown) to the 1-26.
>
> What are the differences which should be emphasized?

First of all, the 2-33 and the 1-26 were specifically designed to work
together as a training system, so expect very few troubles. You have read
the flight manual haven't you? It not, the whole thing is here
http://www.126association.org/frames.htm and you can print out your own
copy. While you are there, look through the 1-26 association site
http://www.126association.org/ for all kinds of good information.

Start out by adjusting your seat position properly, this can only be
accomplished by an assortment of cushions in some versions. Make sure that
your head is up high so you can see the tow plane and that you can reach
everything when you are securly strapped in. While you are in there, stay
for a while; practice reaching for the release and spoilers and get used to
the position of the instruments. Now look out at the view while someone
holds the tail down and etch that picture in your brain because what you see
should be pretty close to your landing attitude. Now you are ready to get
a good cockpit checkout by your instructor or your field 1-26 guru before
you attempt to commit aviation.

The 1-26 is quite light on the stick compared to the 2-33. Usually
that will be a delight, but it sometimes leads to a problem is takeoff. I
have seen one new 1-26 driver make a bad PIO on takeoff. The usual advice
to prevent PIO is to pin your right elbow next to your body and move the
stick with your wrist and fingers only. If you DO get into a PIO, first try
smaller and slower stick movements, if you can't immediately get control,
try to release just as you pass the high tow position on an upward swing,
slow to (but not below) normal flying speed, and the PIO gremlins will
immediately disapear. You will now be left with a plain 'ole broken rope
drill on your hands, something that should be familar to you by now, but
will be easier to handle because the 1-26 will turn on a dime. Brief all
this with the tow plane pilot on your first few flights to be sure that
he/she remembers that you are new at this.

Be sure that you know proper spin recovery and watch your airspeed in
the pattern; the 1-26 is a very safe machine and is appropriate for low-time
pilots, but it will spin if seriously provoked.

Soar Safely;
Vaughn


>
>
> -----
> Jack
> -----
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

everything Vaughn said...

ohh.. and something to wipe the silly grin off your face when you land..

If the 2-33 is the Family Van... the 1-26 is the Mazda Miata

pin the elbow... easy on the stick on take off.. and smooth round out on
speed 45mph.. with 1/2 or less spoiler... for landing..

enjoy

BT

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
> flown) to the 1-26.
>
> What are the differences which should be emphasized?
>
>
> -----
> Jack
> -----
>
>
>

[Lennie the Lurker]

Jack > wrote in message >...
> I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
> flown) to the 1-26.
>
> What are the differences which should be emphasized?
>
>
NOthing. It's a Schwiezer, go fly the damn thing.

[Steve Pawling]

Jack > wrote in message >...
> I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
> flown) to the 1-26.
>
> What are the differences which should be emphasized?
>
>
> -----
> Jack
> -----

Every pilot I have seen do their first 1-26 flight pio'd the elevator
at least once. You'll notice the controls are much more responsive and
the 1-26 almost feels like a sports car compared to the 2-33. Also,
1-26s spin great.

Have fun,
Steve
ex 1-26D 411

[Jack]

On 2/18/04 6:45 PM, in article
, "Vaughn"
> wrote:

> First of all, the 2-33 and the 1-26 were specifically designed to work
> together as a training system....

I figure that is a big advantage (along with the price).


> The 1-26 is quite light on the stick compared to the 2-33.

That should be interesting. I was surprised at how much of a fingertip
control ship the 2-33 is.


> Be sure that you know proper spin recovery....

It's been thirty years since I last spun an aircraft. I don't think I'm
going to like it as well as I used to.

Thanks to Vaughn, BT, and Steve for their helpful comments.


Is it possible (and practical) to convert an open Schweizer trailer to a
covered model?



Jack

[D.A.L]

All good advice except for the one mentioning spin recovery...'Be sure
you know proper spin recovery...'. You should know the signs of spin
entry and avoid one!
Low time pilot, first fight, PIO's, pulling the pin then trying to
turn. Your first priority is to avoid a spin not trying to get out of
one. Get a good sense/advice of signs of spin entry and avoid one.
My two cents.
Don
C-GLUV

[Mark James Boyd]

In article >,
Jack > wrote:
>I am about to make the transition from the 2-33 (the only glider I have
>flown) to the 1-26.
>
>What are the differences which should be emphasized?

The PW-5 and 1-26 seem to get a lot of comment on PIO (pilot
induced oscillation) on takeoff.

Yes they are more pitch sensitive (less pressure on stick to
make nose go up). Yes forearm to leg can help dampen
this. But the reason new pilots PIO has a lot of
subtlety.

First, the sight picture is different. A pitch you
think is level may actually be very nose high. This
encourages rotating too early on takeoff.

Next, at least for the PW-5, the trim in the middle of
the range means that on tow the glider will (for some CGs)
lift off too soon. Put the trim fairly far forward,
or have someone about your size/weight fly it and determine
the best initial trim. Safeside for trim a little too
nose down.

Last, the rotation airspeed feels different. The
1-26 and PW-5 "feel" like they accelerate faster (they
do a tiny bit if you use the same towplane).
Pilots have a tendency to rotate before
getting to sufficient airspeed. Below min sink speed
for rotation (which is different in ground effect than
the published min sink) if you rotate, the glider
may fly in and out of ground effect, oscillating.
This can be solved by very still stick forces, or
just rotating at sufficient airspeed.

What is this airspeed? Well, it varies with weight,
and the amount of ground effect. So it is a little
bit experimental. Somewhere between 2/3 published min sink
and min sink is what I have seen.

The dangers of landing too fast are well known. I haven't yet
seen any dangers of rotating at flying airspeed.
On my first flight in several aircraft, I've made it a point to
keep the main wheel(s) on the ground until at a good flying speed.
This has worked for me. Good luck.

[Mark James Boyd]

In article <4034d5a6$1@darkstar>, Mark James Boyd > wrote:
>
>What is this airspeed? Well, it varies with weight,
>and the amount of ground effect. So it is a little
>bit experimental. Somewhere between 2/3 published min sink
>and min sink is what I have seen.

I've noticed ground effect is very subtly different
for low vs. high wing as well. I think this is one more
reason why high wing cessnas and 2-33's are a little
easier to land than mid/low wing Pipers or Blanik/Grob 103s.

It is a little subtle, but the lower wings really do seem
to get more dramatic ground effect those last few feet,
and this dynamic interaction on T/O and landing
seems more pronounced than in a high wing.

[Mark James Boyd]

Shirley > wrote:
>
>I mentioned to the CFIGs/DPEs where I fly the comments made by people on this
>group about the 1-26 spinning easily--this was met with various reactions,
>though NO ONE agreed that the 1-26 spins "easily".

The 1-26 spins "more" easily than the 2-33. The 1-26 stalls "more"
easily and with "less" warning than the 2-33.

>
>The comment was made here on RAS: "We teach people in the 2-33 and then put
>them into a 1-26 that spins at the drop of a hat with virtually little or no
>spin training ... shame on us!" In the hours
>I've flown the 1-26 (summers in AZ
>include some great-but-turbulent weather), I have not *unintentionally* come
>close to stalling it, and no, I have not chosen to spin it on purpose.

The pitch sensitivity and elevator authority at most CGs of the
1-26 is much greater than for the 2-33. Combine this with the
lack of a back seat (no instructor to help on the first flight)
and a student can "more" easily get into a spin than in a 2-33.
Ideally, flying dual with a student in a glider which is pitch sensitive
with lots of elevator authority, before signing them off for
the 1-26, might have historically prevented some of the
accidents listed at

www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp#query_start

>To those who have stressed the importance of spin training *when talking about
>flying the 1-26*, I would like to know specifics -- are you saying it stalls
>and spins with little or no warning? If so, I'd like to hear details of
>specific instances where this has actually happened to you ... not just the
>blanket warning that applies to being aware of stalls and spins in *any*
>aircraft...I'm assuming we always have that in mind.

The 1-26 stalls with "less" warning than the 2-33. And it stalls
with "less" back pressure (in terms of absolute force applied
to the stick). And the wing stalls "more" uniformly than the
2-33 (where part of the wing, the inner part, stalls well before
the outer part). And the 1-26 has "less" dihedral than the
2-33, and the wing is "lower" with respect to the CG, so
a wing will drop "more" quickly during a stall (causing
a "quicker" spin entry).

I put "lower" and "more" like that to emphasize that no
aircraft spins "easily", just "more" easily and "less" easily
than something else. The only way to really explain
the characteristics is to compare them relatively to
another known aircraft.

Will a heavy person with very short legs and a huge
seat cushion stall/spin with the same stick pressure as
a tall, skinny person with a water bag behind the seat?
Not as easily. CG is a bigger issue for making stalls (and therefore
spins) easier or harder to initiate (on purpose or by accident).

My first flight with rear seat passengers in a power plane,
I almost stalled on takeoff, because the amount of
stick pressure needed for rotation and takeoff was
much lighter than I expected. Fortunately I trusted
the airspeed instead of my motor-mechanical memory of
pressure...

Can you use things like trim forward, or use seat cushions
to get yourself forward on CG, so stalls require more
back pressure? Sure. Will this mean you never inadvertently
stall, spin? Well, if you do this very consistently,
it may reduce the chances. But if one day you forget the
cushions, and trim far back right before landing, this
technique may have the opposite effect and encourage you to put
in more back pressure (since that's what you
always did before).

Sounds uncertain? Well, the airspeed indicator is pretty
accurate, so use it instead of "pressure" to determine
if you're close to stall. The 1-26 that I
fly won't stay in a spin easily, so I'm not worried about
stall/spin at high altitude (above 1500 ft), since I
can recover. In the pattern, I just use airspeed well
above stall. I check airspeed quite often during landing also,
to ensure I'm not getting too slow.

Should you practice a spin in the 1-26 solo to see
what it's like? I don't know, that is a very individual
decision... Should you spin a more "spinable"
trainer dual? If there's one available, it sure is
a good eye-opener...

[Shirley]

People have mentioned spins when discussing the 1-26 both here and in previous
threads over the last couple of years. I got my rating in the 2-33, then spent
some hours in the 1-26, and have also recently had a handful of flights in the
Grob 103A.

I mentioned to the CFIGs/DPEs where I fly the comments made by people on this
group about the 1-26 spinning easily--this was met with various reactions,
though NO ONE agreed that the 1-26 spins "easily".

Those comments, accurate or not, prompted me to get at least some specific spin
training in the 2-33. I am 110 lbs, and usually put 40 to 60 more in the front
seat of the 2-33 when I fly it solo (and before anyone says anything, yes, I'm
one of the weirdos who, despite having my license for a year, still walks away
with a huge grin after flying the 2-33! sue me!!), but when we did the spin
training, I didn't add any weight, and the CFIG is around 185. It took some
doing to make it spin ... by that I mean that seeing what we had to do with the
controls, how long we had to wait, and the multitude of glaring signs that were
visible, audible, and perceivable by feel before it went into a spin, it's hard
to imagine how, in **that** aircraft, the signs of the impending stall alone
could be missed. I realize that's not the case for all aircraft, however.

The comment was made here on RAS: "We teach people in the 2-33 and then put
them into a 1-26 that spins at the drop of a hat with virtually little or no
spin training ... shame on us!" In the hours I've flown the 1-26 (summers in AZ
include some great-but-turbulent weather), I have not *unintentionally* come
close to stalling it, and no, I have not chosen to spin it on purpose.

To those who have stressed the importance of spin training *when talking about
flying the 1-26*, I would like to know specifics -- are you saying it stalls
and spins with little or no warning? If so, I'd like to hear details of
specific instances where this has actually happened to you ... not just the
blanket warning that applies to being aware of stalls and spins in *any*
aircraft...I'm assuming we always have that in mind.

Anyone? (Thanks in advance.)

[Tony Verhulst]

D.A.L wrote:
> All good advice except for the one mentioning spin recovery...'Be sure
> you know proper spin recovery...'. You should know the signs of spin
> entry and avoid one!

My one and only unintentional spin was on my first flight in a 1-26
(also my first flight in a single seat glider). I was thermalling and my
first sign of spin entry was noticing that the ground and the air had
swapped places. I may be better at recognizing warning signs now :-) but
it was quick. Recovery was a no brainer.

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

[Martin Gregorie]

On 19 Feb 2004 07:26:30 -0700, (Mark James Boyd)
wrote:

>Next, at least for the PW-5, the trim in the middle of
>the range means that on tow the glider will (for some CGs)
>lift off too soon. Put the trim fairly far forward,
>or have someone about your size/weight fly it and determine
>the best initial trim. Safeside for trim a little too
>nose down.
>
Good point, and not limited to just the PW-5.

Personal view: like everybody else, I set a known or guessed approach
speed trim for the day if I'm taking a winch launch. However, for an
aero tow I prefer an even more nose-heavy trim. I find I have better
control at lift off and during the initial climb-out if the glider is
nose heavy enough to need a little back pressure to maintain vertical
station behind the tug. In particular, this avoids the pop-up that can
be a precursor to PIO.

Disclaimer: this works for me, but ymmv.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Lennie the Lurker]

Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
>
Trim? In a 1-26?

[Martin Gregorie]

On 19 Feb 2004 17:20:17 -0800, (Lennie the
Lurker) wrote:

>Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
>>
>Trim? In a 1-26?

I've seen one once. Never flown one. Couldn't possibly comment.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Kirk Stant]

Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
> On 19 Feb 2004 17:20:17 -0800, (Lennie the
> Lurker) wrote:
>
> >Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
> >>
> >Trim? In a 1-26?
>
> I've seen one once. Never flown one. Couldn't possibly comment.

Actually, Lennie has a good point. In typical Schweizer fashion, the
trim in a 1-26 is usually (always?) a joke.

Fortunately, unlike the 2-33, the 1-26 pretty much doesn't need much
trimming due to it's light elevator forces.

Just in case, it's worth checking that the trim control is in the full
forward position prior to takeoff, especially if the pilot is light
and you are not familiar with that particular 1-26 (since they may
vary quite a lot!).

Still a fun little glider to fly, all things considered.

Kirk

[Jeremy Zawodny]

Kirk Stant wrote:
> Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
>
>>On 19 Feb 2004 17:20:17 -0800, (Lennie the
>>Lurker) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Martin Gregorie > wrote in message >...
>>>
>>>Trim? In a 1-26?
>>
>>I've seen one once. Never flown one. Couldn't possibly comment.
>
>
> Actually, Lennie has a good point. In typical Schweizer fashion, the
> trim in a 1-26 is usually (always?) a joke.

I don't know if the 2-32 is typical, but when I was training in 2-32s, I
really noticed if the trim wasn't set properly. Sure, I could still fly
the glider, but it was very distracting.

Jeremy

[Jim Phoenix]

It's posible to adjust the trim mechanism to make it work better, I have
done some spring changes to make mine work very well. It's kinda tough
because you have to take the nose cone off and fiddle around a lopt, and
it's not really that big of a deal - the only time I like to use the trim is
on tow when the towpilot get a bit frisky and forgets its a 1-26 on the end
of the rope and we're bouncing off 70 mph.

Otherwise, the stick forces are so light, it's no big deal, besides, you're
mostly conentrating on where you are going to find that next thermal.

Jim

"Kirk Stant" > wrote in message
om...
> Martin Gregorie > wrote in message
>...
> > On 19 Feb 2004 17:20:17 -0800, (Lennie the
> > Lurker) wrote:
> >
> > >Martin Gregorie > wrote in message
>...
> > >>
> > >Trim? In a 1-26?
> >
> > I've seen one once. Never flown one. Couldn't possibly comment.
>
> Actually, Lennie has a good point. In typical Schweizer fashion, the
> trim in a 1-26 is usually (always?) a joke.
>
> Fortunately, unlike the 2-33, the 1-26 pretty much doesn't need much
> trimming due to it's light elevator forces.
>
> Just in case, it's worth checking that the trim control is in the full
> forward position prior to takeoff, especially if the pilot is light
> and you are not familiar with that particular 1-26 (since they may
> vary quite a lot!).
>
> Still a fun little glider to fly, all things considered.
>
> Kirk

[Kevin R. Anderson]

Yes, there is trim in a 1-26. Just not a tremendous amount. Usually full
forward is about best L/D, and full back is a good thermaling speed. ( if
the trim is set well)

I have made the transition the other way. I originally trained in a L-23
then transitioned to a 1-26. After over 200 hours in a 1-26 I took a check
flight in a 2-33 while visiting another club. The 1-26 is much lighter on
the controls, and much more responsive. The 2-33 is much more like a truck.
Just use a light hand on the controls. By the time you get off tow and make
a few turns you will get a big smile on your face and see how much fun the
little bird is. I usually fly my pattern at about 50 mph. This and keeping
the yaw string straight will take care of all of the things that have been
written about spins on this thread. I have not found the 1-26 to have any
tendency toward spinning. I have done some spins at altitude intentionally
and recovery is quite quick and conventional. The point is that you do not
want to spin ANY ship in the pattern.

The model of 1-26 that you are going to fly will make a difference in the
amount of spoiler that you will have. I started in an E model with both
upper and lower surface spoilers (our club ship), and now own a B model, top
only so less spoiler, but it still comes down fine. The bird also slips
very well.

Before you ever fly the bird however the first thing that you should do is
to spend 1/2 the amount of a tow to join the 1-26 Association.
www.126association.org The Association supports the 1-26 and sponsors
the 1-26 Championships each year. The last few years a badge camp has also
been included at the Championships.

Once you get some flights in the little bird you will find it to be a
delight. Then consider chasing your badges in the 1-26. At least make sure
that you get your silver in it, however all your badges through diamond are
possible in the 1-26 and are encouraged by die hard 1-26ers.

Hope this helps.

Kevin R. Anderson
Soar 192
Eastern VP 1-26 Association



"Jeremy Zawodny" > wrote in message
...
> Kirk Stant wrote:
> > Martin Gregorie > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >>On 19 Feb 2004 17:20:17 -0800, (Lennie the
> >>Lurker) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Martin Gregorie > wrote in message
>...
> >>>
> >>>Trim? In a 1-26?
> >>
> >>I've seen one once. Never flown one. Couldn't possibly comment.
> >
> >
> > Actually, Lennie has a good point. In typical Schweizer fashion, the
> > trim in a 1-26 is usually (always?) a joke.
>
> I don't know if the 2-32 is typical, but when I was training in 2-32s, I
> really noticed if the trim wasn't set properly. Sure, I could still fly
> the glider, but it was very distracting.
>
> Jeremy