Flying during a Solar Eclipse

[AS]

Ok - here is a question for the FAR experts:
On August 21, there will be a total solar eclipse occurring - among other places - over South Carolina. The duration of the total eclipse is around 2min 35 seconds.
Is this considered night time? Can I fly a glider under VFR-daytime rules during this time?

Uli
'AS'

[AS]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 1:59:24 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> Ok - here is a question for the FAR experts:
> On August 21, there will be a total solar eclipse occurring - among other places - over South Carolina. The duration of the total eclipse is around 2min 35 seconds.
> Is this considered night time? Can I fly a glider under VFR-daytime rules during this time?
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

If it turns out to be a clear day but illegal to fly, I invite y'all to come to KSPA's D-Hangar. It has so many holes in the roof acting as pin hole cameras, we should be able to follow an image of the eclipse on the hangar-floor without messing up ones eyes. ;-)

Uli
'AS'

[[email protected]]

Well, its not night so why not?

[Duster[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 1:13:18 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Well, its not night so why not?

Wouldn't the US FAA FARs consider flying during a total eclipse, flight into known IMC, assuming loss of sunlight is below VFR minimums?

[Sierra Whiskey]

14 CFR Part 1.1
"Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

[Sierra Whiskey]

14 CFR Part 1.1
"Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

[Duster[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 3:18:14 PM UTC-5, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
> 14 CFR Part 1.1
> "Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."

SW, Don't think it's relevant in this case. That's the FAR definition of "night/day time". Just guessing that a total eclipse might put a pilot into a known IMC condition. The sun is a meteorologic player, that's how I would tie it into. Since you can see the stars and plants during the event, it must get pretty dark. Could kill lift for awhile if soaring.

[[email protected]]

It doesn't get that dark.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:05:44 PM UTC-5, Duster wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 3:18:14 PM UTC-5, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
> > 14 CFR Part 1.1
> > "Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."
>
> SW, Don't think it's relevant in this case. That's the FAR definition of "night/day time". Just guessing that a total eclipse might put a pilot into a known IMC condition. The sun is a meteorologic player, that's how I would tie it into. Since you can see the stars and plants during the event, it must get pretty dark. Could kill lift for awhile if soaring.

Duster, VFR minimums do not specify "sun shining". It is ceiling and visibility that defines VFR or IMC. You do not need to have an instrument rating to fly at night. "Night" is defined as SW pointed out, and does not care if the sun is hiding behind the moon or not. It is sun position relative to the horizon. Totality in Uli's area will be about two and a half minutes. Start to end, it will be, I believe, more than an hour. Get out your Gren Siebels books. Might have been Jim Smiley that did it long ago. He got as high as he could before, flew min sink and kept looking for lift (it was still there), and thermalled again on the other side of the eclipse.

Steve Leonard

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 06 Jul 2017 14:31:45 -0700, karengeisinger95 wrote:

> It doesn't get that dark.

I saw the 1999 eclipse from close to the Danube near Domsod, i.e. the
northern edge of where the current WGC is being flown.

From memory, most of the partial period was fairly light, with it only
getting darkish for a short time either side of totality. Its difficult
to say how dark totality was because I was more interested in looking at
the Baily's Beads and the light show put on by the sun's corona sticking
out past the moon.

My guess would be that reading your instruments may be quite hard but
that keeping a correct attitude should be easier: looking round during
totality I saw that the horizon was lit up with a weird orange glow on
all sides. That should make a good reference if you're in the air, but
why would you be flying if you've never experienced an eclipse? Second
one maybe, but IMO you should experience at least from one ground level
in the open.

If you've never seen a good eclipse, get yourself onto the centre of the
line of totality with a set of cheap eclipse glasses and a filter for
your camera(mine both had cardboard frames and 'lenses' of thin, silvered
mylar) and enjoy totality on the ground. Look for:

- Baily's Beads
- the sun's corona
- the 360 degree orange horizon
- the birds getting confused and roosting

and outside totality:

- crescent-shaped sunlight projections on the ground under trees etc
- 'waves' of interference effects crossing featureless concrete or
tarmac areas

If it gets cloudy, don't despair: the clouds can clear as the eclipse
approaches. I was stayting oin Szeged for it. We woke up to find solid
overcase, saw that it looked brighter toward Bala and the Danube, hopped
in the car and went. We ended up just east of the Danube and smack on the
centre line of totality under a cloudless sky. Perfection.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Duster[_2_]]

Good pts, Steve. Don't panic if you think you've missed a rare opportunity, another totality comes in 2024. It's track will be somewhat opposite to this.
2017: NW to SE
2024: SW to NE

https://www.greatamericaneclipse.com/best-places-to-view/

[Cookie]

years back, I soloed a student in a 2-33...then a 1-26 same day...he went up and set a junior altitude state record...then the eclipse...

Gliders come down and land during a solar eclipse...no lift at all the rest of the day!


Cookie


On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 1:59:24 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
> Ok - here is a question for the FAR experts:
> On August 21, there will be a total solar eclipse occurring - among other places - over South Carolina. The duration of the total eclipse is around 2min 35 seconds.
> Is this considered night time? Can I fly a glider under VFR-daytime rules during this time?
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

[Bojack J4]

Hmmmm....no mention of how to handle soaring during a total eclipse in Reichman's book.

[[email protected]]

But...but...If you look at it you could go BLIND! And then lose control of your glider and possibly CRASH INTO A SLEEPING BABY!!!

Lighten up. Go fly the damn thing. 2.5 minutes of an eclipse isn't anything like flying under a solid overcast, and you will probably not be able to keep yourself under the corona for any length of time anyway.

And, no, it doesn't get that dark. There is a lot of scattered light. Kinda like twilight. It's enough to fool birds, but they aren't all that bright. Are you!

Bureaucrats may be more hazardous. Don't get entangled with an ambitious one.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 2:31:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> It doesn't get that dark.

For those that say "it doesn't get that dark have never been in the path of a total eclipse. I have been directly in the path, what a neat experience, all the birds were very confused and vocal. Turned dark as a dark night for a few minutes then back to normal. Personally I would rather be on the ground and enjoy the reactions of animals and people near me.

[Dan Marotta]

Imagine being in an unlit aircraft in a sky full of aircraft and
possibly having no visible horizon. I have a Dynon D10a in my Stemme
and an ATP certificate, but no navigation lights. We'll be at a Stemme
gathering in Montrose, Colorado during that time and plan to take off
early, fly to Casper, WY, and land to watch the eclipse, have lunch, and
then make a soaring flight back to Montrose.

I would imagine there would be a great urge to stare at the eclipse
which would not be a good thing, either.

On 7/6/2017 3:42 PM, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 4:05:44 PM UTC-5, Duster wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 3:18:14 PM UTC-5, Sierra Whiskey wrote:
>>> 14 CFR Part 1.1
>>> "Night means the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Air Almanac, converted to local time."
>> SW, Don't think it's relevant in this case. That's the FAR definition of "night/day time". Just guessing that a total eclipse might put a pilot into a known IMC condition. The sun is a meteorologic player, that's how I would tie it into. Since you can see the stars and plants during the event, it must get pretty dark. Could kill lift for awhile if soaring.
> Duster, VFR minimums do not specify "sun shining". It is ceiling and visibility that defines VFR or IMC. You do not need to have an instrument rating to fly at night. "Night" is defined as SW pointed out, and does not care if the sun is hiding behind the moon or not. It is sun position relative to the horizon. Totality in Uli's area will be about two and a half minutes. Start to end, it will be, I believe, more than an hour. Get out your Gren Siebels books. Might have been Jim Smiley that did it long ago. He got as high as he could before, flew min sink and kept looking for lift (it was still there), and thermalled again on the other side of the eclipse.
>
> Steve Leonard

--
Dan, 5J

[Mike the Strike]

On a related note, a surprising number of countries permit "night vfr": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_VFR

I made one cross-country night flight in a 172 when renewing my US pilot's certificate some years ago. It was on a moonless night across uninhabited Arizona desert and "vfr" was a complete fiction - nothing was visible. I was able to fly reasonably well on instruments (thanks Microsoft!), but my landing on an unlit runway was pretty interesting. It convinced me never to fly at night without an instrument rating.

Mike

[Duster[_2_]]

But, you will be able to stare at the eclipse for 2min 40sec at Casper (NOAA) without filters. It will get dark enough to see many stars and planets. What might be just as dramatic is to watch the moon's shadow from altitude. It will be a slightly elliptical disk, about 70 miles in diameter, and will cross the ground at ~1,700mph from west to east.

[Sierra Whiskey]

Duster,

Night and IMC are independent of each other. Instrument Meterological Conditions are driven by ceiling and visibility, and have no regulatory influence by the position of the sun. (Meteorological influences are a different consideration however I doubt there will be many places where the short duration of the solar eclipse will change the weather conditions from VMC to IMC)

Example: A Class D airport is not considered IMC at night, and a pilot is not required to fly uner IFR into a Class D airport at night, unless the ceiling or visibility drop below VFR minimums.

Unless properly equipped and certified, gliders are not authorized to fly at night or in IMC, however I maintain that a solar eclipse does not for the definition of either condition. As long as you stay out of the clouds and maintain the minimum visibility for your class of airspace you are good to go.

-SW

[Duster[_2_]]

SW,
Good teaching points, thanks. I thought if there was a loss of visual references during the eclipse, it might be considered below VFR mins. Might be fun to fly; they expect surface winds to increase and temperatures to drop 10-15 deg F.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 8:16:07 PM UTC-4, Cookie wrote:
> Gliders come down and land during a solar eclipse...no lift at all the rest of the day!

Here in the NE US we'll only get a partial eclipse. The sun will be about 1/4 or more covered for about an hour, peaking at about 60% covered. What should we expect for soaring conditions? Will thermals totally quit? How is it different, in terms of solar heating of the ground, from the patches of high clouds that often plague our soaring?

[Duster[_2_]]

No problem according to the FAA when asked. Direct from two different FSDO offices:

1)Wyoming Aviation Safety Inspector: " Regarding your inquiry, there are no additional restrictions that the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) impose upon flight during a solar eclipse. VFR flight is authorized and you must adhere to the restrictions as indicated in FAR 91.155. If you have any further questions, ...."

2)Nebraska FAA Principal Inspector: "A flight conducted during a total solar eclipse in visual meteorological conditions would not require IFR instrumentation/IFR airman certification, nor would it constitute a night flight."


> If it turns out to be a clear day but illegal to fly, I invite y'all to come to KSPA's D-Hangar. It has so many holes in the roof acting as pin hole cameras, we should be able to follow an image of the eclipse on the hangar-floor without messing up ones eyes. ;-)
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Enjoy.....or not.......
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lcOxhH8N3Bo

[Roy B.]

All of you guys have way too much time on your hands . . .
ROY

[AS]

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 4:50:05 PM UTC-4, Duster wrote:
> No problem according to the FAA when asked. Direct from two different FSDO offices:
>
> 1)Wyoming Aviation Safety Inspector: " Regarding your inquiry, there are no additional restrictions that the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) impose upon flight during a solar eclipse. VFR flight is authorized and you must adhere to the restrictions as indicated in FAR 91.155. If you have any further questions, ...."
>
> 2)Nebraska FAA Principal Inspector: "A flight conducted during a total solar eclipse in visual meteorological conditions would not require IFR instrumentation/IFR airman certification, nor would it constitute a night flight.."
>

Well - now we know! Thanks for checking with the FAA.
Uli
'AS'

[[email protected]]

Article from FreeFlight many years ago....

MAYBE A WORLD RECORD, SORT OF

May 10, 1994 - Keystone Gliderport, Julian Pennsylvania

Its was a beautiful day for soaring but not a ridge day. I had
declared a 750 km out and return task which I thought might be
possible if the thermals were wonderful. As it turned out they
were a bit too wonderful and it was already over developing with
some very large rain squalls blocking my way when I was only 50
km out. I tried to find a way around them but new ones seemed to
develop and block each plan I came up with. Finally I gave up,
climbed as high as I could (about 7000 AGL) and started back to
the gliderport.

Meanwhile back at the field, Bernie Palfreeman of MSC had his
take off delayed by a squall but was now in the air with about
ten Americans, flying locally. It was coming up to 12 noon and when
I got a chance I took a quick glance at the sun when it was
behind enough cloud so that I could see the disk. Sure enough, as
predicted, there was a big bite out of top right side. By 1:20 pm
there was only a sliver of sun left, and although it was very
light out the ground looked dull as if it were in the shade. We
all agreed it was cooling off. By now the sky was clear of cloud
and the whole dozen of us were in two or three gaggles scratching
for lift. We hung on until about 2 pm but then, within about 15
minutes, we all landed. Shot down by an eclipse of the sun - a
world record for sure!

(Dave Noyes of Columbus Ohio also flew out of Keystone gliderport
that day in his Ventus motorglider. He started earlier and beat
the squalls in his run to the south west, away from the path of
the eclipse. At the height of the eclipse he was past Cumberland,
about 200 km away. He said he had a period of scratching but
managed to hang on without using his motor. He was our only
survivor. He arrived back at Keystone several hours after we were
all shot down).

Walter Weir