PDA

View Full Version : Emergency Parachute questions


Jay Moreland
December 1st 04, 05:40 AM
I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will
be doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight
is #140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need
to use the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used
parachute that I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a
professional Master rigger.

Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
(Assuming it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)

Is there anything to watch out for?

Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
to know that it is still safe?

If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
150 knot capability?

What other considerations should I think of?

john smith
December 1st 04, 02:45 PM
Do a Google search for "Butler Parchute".
Call and ask for Manny.
Discuss your questions with him.
He used to monitor the IAC Exploder and offer helpful comments to these
types of questions.

Jay Moreland wrote:
> I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
> nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will
> be doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight
> is #140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need
> to use the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used
> parachute that I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a
> professional Master rigger.
>
> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
> (Assuming it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>
> Is there anything to watch out for?
>
> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
> to know that it is still safe?
>
> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
> 150 knot capability?
>
> What other considerations should I think of?
>

dave
December 1st 04, 09:39 PM
I was in the same spot as you and bought a new chute. I was advised
that unless you're buying the used chute from a rigger, don't buy it.
It could be damaged. You'll have no way of knowing about the damage
until rigger checks it out.

I bought mine from wingsandwheels.com but there are many other on-line
places to shop. www.pia.com/silver has a lot of good information on
chutes. They also have some used chutes but they don't seem to be
significantly cheaper than a new one.

Dave
68 7ECA

Jay Moreland wrote:
> I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
> nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will
> be doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight
> is #140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need
> to use the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used
> parachute that I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a
> professional Master rigger.
>
> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
> (Assuming it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>
> Is there anything to watch out for?
>
> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
> to know that it is still safe?
>
> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
> 150 knot capability?
>
> What other considerations should I think of?
>

ShawnD2112
December 1st 04, 11:00 PM
Jay,
Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't want
to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for buying a
used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance piece of
equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With a bailout
rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me $1,500.00 but
I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not scrimping on.

I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and what
my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types of rigs
and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls with
various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get sorted
what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in the
seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so far so
good.

I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really helpful
and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!

Shawn
"Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that I
>would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>rigger.
>
> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>
> Is there anything to watch out for?
>
> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
> to know that it is still safe?
>
> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
> knot capability?
>
> What other considerations should I think of?
>

Byron J. Covey
December 2nd 04, 01:57 AM
A good habit to get into is to exit the airplane following each flight while
still wearing the parachute. You will find that it catches on something
until you learn the proper body position for clearance. If you have to exit
in an emergency, the learned body position will make it easier, although you
certainly will be dealing with additional variables!


BJC
Formerly S-1S w National 360


"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
k...
> Jay,
> Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
> Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
> want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
> buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
> piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With a
> bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
> $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
> scrimping on.
>
> I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
> what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types of
> rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls with
> various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get sorted
> what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
> haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in the
> seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so far
> so good.
>
> I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really helpful
> and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>
> Shawn
> "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
> news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
>>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that
>>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>>rigger.
>>
>> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
>> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
>> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>>
>> Is there anything to watch out for?
>>
>> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
>> to know that it is still safe?
>>
>> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
>> knot capability?
>>
>> What other considerations should I think of?
>>
>
>

john smith
December 2nd 04, 05:57 AM
Alan Silver is a rigger, another good source of information. He does a
seminar at AirVenture for the IAC group.

dave wrote:
> I bought mine from wingsandwheels.com but there are many other on-line
> places to shop. www.pia.com/silver has a lot of good information on
> chutes. They also have some used chutes but they don't seem to be
> significantly cheaper than a new one.

ShawnD2112
December 2nd 04, 07:36 AM
Good tip, B. Dan at Softie said the same thing. He also suggested it
because in an emergency we typically revert to learned habit and it one's
habit is to take off the parachute every time one gets out of the airplane,
there's a risk that person would do the same thing when bailing out. I can
certainly understand the logic behind that.

Shawn

"Byron J. Covey" > wrote in message
.. .
>A good habit to get into is to exit the airplane following each flight
>while still wearing the parachute. You will find that it catches on
>something until you learn the proper body position for clearance. If you
>have to exit in an emergency, the learned body position will make it
>easier, although you certainly will be dealing with additional variables!
>
>
> BJC
> Formerly S-1S w National 360
>
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> k...
>> Jay,
>> Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
>> Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
>> want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
>> buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
>> piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With
>> a bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
>> $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
>> scrimping on.
>>
>> I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
>> what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types
>> of rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls
>> with various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get
>> sorted what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase
>> that...I haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all
>> fits in the seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on,
>> but so far so good.
>>
>> I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really
>> helpful and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>>
>> Shawn
>> "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
>> news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>>>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>>>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>>>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>>>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to
>>>use the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute
>>>that I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional
>>>Master rigger.
>>>
>>> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
>>> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
>>> (Assuming it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>>>
>>> Is there anything to watch out for?
>>>
>>> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
>>> to know that it is still safe?
>>>
>>> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>>> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>>> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
>>> 150 knot capability?
>>>
>>> What other considerations should I think of?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Al MacDonald
December 2nd 04, 06:33 PM
Jay,

Most 24' parachutes would be fine for your weight at sea level, but at 5400
ASL the landing would be hard. I've landed National 24' at 3500 ft and it
was ok, but I also have 1500 jumps. The next size up is 26', and although
it is more expensive, it is also a little larger and heavier.....and a
little less easy for climbing in/out of the cockpit. You have to decide if
the smaller/lighter/cheaper parachute system will offset the possibility of
a lower leg injury on landing. Oh yes, bones take longer to heal as we get
older. Something else to consider is potential opening speeds. The red
line on my Pitts is 205 statute, well above the max deployment speeds of a
number of parachutes (some are as low as 150 mph, other 150 kts). While I
plan on delaying an opening for a couple of seconds after exit (if altitude
is available), I draw from considerable experience and I can maintain the
best body position for a good deployment without tumbling. Most pilots
don't have this background. You do not want to deploy a parachute rated for
150 kts at 180 kts, as the opening shock increases in square to the speed
increase, and the parachute most likely has only been tested to 175 kts.

Nothing wrong with a 10 year old parachute, if it is properly inspected and
the fabric strength tested. Any Senior or Master Rigger does this all the
time as part of the repack. Because you are trusting your life to the
person who inspects/packs your parachute, find a GOOD local rigger, as the
parachute must be repacked every 120 days in the US. Ask around at a local
Drop Zone for recommendations; it doesn't take a lot of skill to
inspect/repack a parachute but, like everything else in life, attitude is
everything. I've packed lots of parachutes over 40 years old as long as
they are in good shape and the fabric strength tests ok, but there is a
movement afoot in the industry to put a 20 year life span on parachute
equipment. Newer parachute systems utilize a full diaper to assist in a
more effective deployment; I'd say this is a must.

The parachute of the right size for you comes in the appropriate container
style for your needs (back/seat/chair), which is a combination of where you
have space for the bulk and your size/height/length. I'm 6' 160# and I
could probably use a seat pack in my S-1D, however the previous owner put a
board over the seat pan and I am using a chairpack. It works well for me,
as I'm up high enough for best view and the chair is much easier to climb
in/out with than a seat pack. Also, with the pilot chute of a seat pack
pointing down, in theory you would need to deploy on your head or at least
90 degrees to vertical. Chair and back is fine for head up or body at 90
degrees to the relative wind.

In case you're wondering, I deal with parachutes as my full time occupation.

Al MacDonald
Flying High Manufacturing inc.


"Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that I
>would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>rigger.
>
> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>
> Is there anything to watch out for?
>
> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
> to know that it is still safe?
>
> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
> knot capability?
>
> What other considerations should I think of?
>

justin
December 2nd 04, 07:04 PM
Shawn:

FWIW I also bought a new Softie seatpack chute for use in my Yak-52. The
chute fit's perfectly in the seat pan and doesn't move at all. I check it
every flight to make sure there is no wear starting. So far no problems. I
was surprised how comfortable the chute feels when on. I always keep the
chute on when exiting the airplane for the same reasons others have noted.
BTW, I liked the Softie so much I bought a second one for the back
seat...mighty thoughtful of me to think of my instructor's well being don't
you think ;)

Greg Arnold

p.s. If anyone knows of a good aerobatic instructor that will instruct in my
Yak 52, please let me know. I live in Mobile, Alabama.

"ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
k...
> Jay,
> Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
> Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
> want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
> buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
> piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With a
> bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
> $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
> scrimping on.
>
> I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
> what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types of
> rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls with
> various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get sorted
> what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
> haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in the
> seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so far
> so good.
>
> I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really helpful
> and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>
> Shawn
> "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
> news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
>>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that
>>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>>rigger.
>>
>> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
>> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
>> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>>
>> Is there anything to watch out for?
>>
>> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
>> to know that it is still safe?
>>
>> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
>> knot capability?
>>
>> What other considerations should I think of?
>>
>
>

ShawnD2112
December 2nd 04, 07:07 PM
Al,
I wish I'd thought to post here when I was looking for a rig and gotten your
advice. I think I might still have ended up with my Softie seat pack, but
I've sure found your posting useful. I was surprised to find that you've
packed chutes that are over 40 years old! Are these typically warbird
seatpacks?

Thanks for your expertise!
Shawn
"Al MacDonald" > wrote in message
news:JlIrd.21354$cE3.19326@clgrps12...
> Jay,
>
> Most 24' parachutes would be fine for your weight at sea level, but at
> 5400 ASL the landing would be hard. I've landed National 24' at 3500 ft
> and it was ok, but I also have 1500 jumps. The next size up is 26', and
> although it is more expensive, it is also a little larger and
> heavier.....and a little less easy for climbing in/out of the cockpit.
> You have to decide if the smaller/lighter/cheaper parachute system will
> offset the possibility of a lower leg injury on landing. Oh yes, bones
> take longer to heal as we get older. Something else to consider is
> potential opening speeds. The red line on my Pitts is 205 statute, well
> above the max deployment speeds of a number of parachutes (some are as low
> as 150 mph, other 150 kts). While I plan on delaying an opening for a
> couple of seconds after exit (if altitude is available), I draw from
> considerable experience and I can maintain the best body position for a
> good deployment without tumbling. Most pilots don't have this background.
> You do not want to deploy a parachute rated for 150 kts at 180 kts, as the
> opening shock increases in square to the speed increase, and the parachute
> most likely has only been tested to 175 kts.
>
> Nothing wrong with a 10 year old parachute, if it is properly inspected
> and the fabric strength tested. Any Senior or Master Rigger does this all
> the time as part of the repack. Because you are trusting your life to the
> person who inspects/packs your parachute, find a GOOD local rigger, as the
> parachute must be repacked every 120 days in the US. Ask around at a
> local Drop Zone for recommendations; it doesn't take a lot of skill to
> inspect/repack a parachute but, like everything else in life, attitude is
> everything. I've packed lots of parachutes over 40 years old as long as
> they are in good shape and the fabric strength tests ok, but there is a
> movement afoot in the industry to put a 20 year life span on parachute
> equipment. Newer parachute systems utilize a full diaper to assist in a
> more effective deployment; I'd say this is a must.
>
> The parachute of the right size for you comes in the appropriate container
> style for your needs (back/seat/chair), which is a combination of where
> you have space for the bulk and your size/height/length. I'm 6' 160# and
> I could probably use a seat pack in my S-1D, however the previous owner
> put a board over the seat pan and I am using a chairpack. It works well
> for me, as I'm up high enough for best view and the chair is much easier
> to climb in/out with than a seat pack. Also, with the pilot chute of a
> seat pack pointing down, in theory you would need to deploy on your head
> or at least 90 degrees to vertical. Chair and back is fine for head up or
> body at 90 degrees to the relative wind.
>
> In case you're wondering, I deal with parachutes as my full time
> occupation.
>
> Al MacDonald
> Flying High Manufacturing inc.
>
>
> "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
> news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
>>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that
>>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>>rigger.
>>
>> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
>> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
>> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>>
>> Is there anything to watch out for?
>>
>> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
>> to know that it is still safe?
>>
>> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
>> knot capability?
>>
>> What other considerations should I think of?
>>
>
>

ShawnD2112
December 2nd 04, 11:10 PM
Well done for looking after your instructor! I can't wait to get parachute
and airplane together to see if everything works out. I'll let you know how
it goes!

Shawn
"justin" > wrote in message
...
> Shawn:
>
> FWIW I also bought a new Softie seatpack chute for use in my Yak-52. The
> chute fit's perfectly in the seat pan and doesn't move at all. I check it
> every flight to make sure there is no wear starting. So far no problems.
> I was surprised how comfortable the chute feels when on. I always keep
> the chute on when exiting the airplane for the same reasons others have
> noted. BTW, I liked the Softie so much I bought a second one for the back
> seat...mighty thoughtful of me to think of my instructor's well being
> don't you think ;)
>
> Greg Arnold
>
> p.s. If anyone knows of a good aerobatic instructor that will instruct in
> my Yak 52, please let me know. I live in Mobile, Alabama.
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> k...
>> Jay,
>> Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
>> Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
>> want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
>> buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
>> piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With
>> a bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
>> $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
>> scrimping on.
>>
>> I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
>> what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types
>> of rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls
>> with various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get
>> sorted what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase
>> that...I haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all
>> fits in the seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on,
>> but so far so good.
>>
>> I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really
>> helpful and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>>
>> Shawn
>> "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
>> news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>>>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>>>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
>>>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>>>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to
>>>use the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute
>>>that I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional
>>>Master rigger.
>>>
>>> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
>>> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
>>> (Assuming it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>>>
>>> Is there anything to watch out for?
>>>
>>> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
>>> to know that it is still safe?
>>>
>>> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>>> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>>> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
>>> 150 knot capability?
>>>
>>> What other considerations should I think of?
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Peter Ashwood-Smith C-GZRO
December 2nd 04, 11:38 PM
Having had precicely one incident in which I had to 'try' to get out
of my Pitts very quickly (on the ground) I can add some interesting
'additional variables' ;)

Make sure your headset is setup in such a manner that it can come
free easily too. I had an incident on the ground last summer where I
ran my smoke system to show off for a photographer. I shut the engine
down too quickly and still had some smoke fluid in the exhaust and of
course got a small fire under the plane. Nothing that caused any
damage but all of a sudden I look up and people are running in all
directions waving madly and yelling 'FIRE' .. well .. I released all
the buckles, slide the cockpit back jumped out of the plane, only to
have my head held back by the headset and cables. Not too dangerous
given I was not moving very fast but had I been in the slipstream it
could have been pretty violent and I guess could break your neck etc.
That chin strap held tight even as I tried to yank the thing off.

The other thing I discovered was that the shoulder straps provide
sufficient friction even when unbuckeled that when you try to stand up
they will actually prevent you unless you push them off your
shoulders. Try it some time. Just sit in the plane with all the belts
undone but the shoulder harnesses lose over your sholders ... now try
to stand up ... LOTS of resistance.

So .. add to your list:

Detach your chin strap on your headset and/or make sure it is
very weak and will break away easily. A folded over strap of velcro is
pretty damn strong!
If I were building an experimental, my headset jacks would push in
vertically instead of horizontally to allow them to pull free in the
case of a baleout.

Push the shoulder straps off each shoulder! Infact bungges or
elastics to do this may not be a dumb idea.

ALso .. don't run your smoke system on the ground unless you keep
the engine running for a minute or so afterwards to blow any remaining
oil out of the pipes. Also don't throttle back with the smoke system
on while on the ground!
Oh ... and don't let line guys put 100LL in your smoke tank .. don't
laugh I've stopped more than one.

By the way .. as an interesting aside ... the only person watching
that reacted properly was my 11 year old son who ran away from the
plane to the hanger to get a fire extinguisher.

Cheers and fly safe,

Peter


> A good habit to get into is to exit the airplane following each flight while
> still wearing the parachute. You will find that it catches on something
> until you learn the proper body position for clearance. If you have to exit
> in an emergency, the learned body position will make it easier, although you
> certainly will be dealing with additional variables!
>
>
> BJC
> Formerly S-1S w National 360
>
>
> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
> k...
> > Jay,
> > Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
> > Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
> > want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
> > buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
> > piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on. With a
> > bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
> > $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
> > scrimping on.
> >
> > I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
> > what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types of
> > rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls with
> > various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get sorted
> > what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
> > haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in the
> > seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so far
> > so good.
> >
> > I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really helpful
> > and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
> >
> > Shawn
> > "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
> > news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
> >>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
> >>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will be
> >>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
> >>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to use
> >>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute that
> >>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
> >>rigger.
> >>
> >> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie, Strong...etc
> >> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute? (Assuming
> >> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
> >>
> >> Is there anything to watch out for?
> >>
> >> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used parachute
> >> to know that it is still safe?
> >>
> >> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
> >> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
> >> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the 150
> >> knot capability?
> >>
> >> What other considerations should I think of?
> >>
> >
> >

ShawnD2112
December 3rd 04, 02:32 AM
Peter,

Tips based on experience are always the best kind. Thanks for posting. I
hear what you're saying about straps. I've experienced the same kind of
thing just trying to get out under normal circumstances but being too lazy
to take the straps off my shoulders. As for headset, I wear an HGU-55
helmet with quick disconnect at the helmet, though how quick and how much
tension it takes to break it I don't know. Do you or anyone else in this
group have experience of that element?

Thanks again for the writeup. It's all going in my personal bag of "stuff
to remember".

Cheers,
Shawn
"Peter Ashwood-Smith C-GZRO" > wrote in message
om...
> Having had precicely one incident in which I had to 'try' to get out
> of my Pitts very quickly (on the ground) I can add some interesting
> 'additional variables' ;)
>
> Make sure your headset is setup in such a manner that it can come
> free easily too. I had an incident on the ground last summer where I
> ran my smoke system to show off for a photographer. I shut the engine
> down too quickly and still had some smoke fluid in the exhaust and of
> course got a small fire under the plane. Nothing that caused any
> damage but all of a sudden I look up and people are running in all
> directions waving madly and yelling 'FIRE' .. well .. I released all
> the buckles, slide the cockpit back jumped out of the plane, only to
> have my head held back by the headset and cables. Not too dangerous
> given I was not moving very fast but had I been in the slipstream it
> could have been pretty violent and I guess could break your neck etc.
> That chin strap held tight even as I tried to yank the thing off.
>
> The other thing I discovered was that the shoulder straps provide
> sufficient friction even when unbuckeled that when you try to stand up
> they will actually prevent you unless you push them off your
> shoulders. Try it some time. Just sit in the plane with all the belts
> undone but the shoulder harnesses lose over your sholders ... now try
> to stand up ... LOTS of resistance.
>
> So .. add to your list:
>
> Detach your chin strap on your headset and/or make sure it is
> very weak and will break away easily. A folded over strap of velcro is
> pretty damn strong!
> If I were building an experimental, my headset jacks would push in
> vertically instead of horizontally to allow them to pull free in the
> case of a baleout.
>
> Push the shoulder straps off each shoulder! Infact bungges or
> elastics to do this may not be a dumb idea.
>
> ALso .. don't run your smoke system on the ground unless you keep
> the engine running for a minute or so afterwards to blow any remaining
> oil out of the pipes. Also don't throttle back with the smoke system
> on while on the ground!
> Oh ... and don't let line guys put 100LL in your smoke tank .. don't
> laugh I've stopped more than one.
>
> By the way .. as an interesting aside ... the only person watching
> that reacted properly was my 11 year old son who ran away from the
> plane to the hanger to get a fire extinguisher.
>
> Cheers and fly safe,
>
> Peter
>
>
>> A good habit to get into is to exit the airplane following each flight
>> while
>> still wearing the parachute. You will find that it catches on something
>> until you learn the proper body position for clearance. If you have to
>> exit
>> in an emergency, the learned body position will make it easier, although
>> you
>> certainly will be dealing with additional variables!
>>
>>
>> BJC
>> Formerly S-1S w National 360
>>
>>
>> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
>> k...
>> > Jay,
>> > Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
>> > Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
>> > want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
>> > buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
>> > piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on.
>> > With a
>> > bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
>> > $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
>> > scrimping on.
>> >
>> > I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
>> > what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types
>> > of
>> > rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls
>> > with
>> > various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get
>> > sorted
>> > what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
>> > haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in
>> > the
>> > seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so
>> > far
>> > so good.
>> >
>> > I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really
>> > helpful
>> > and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>> >
>> > Shawn
>> > "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
>> > news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>> >>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>> >>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will
>> >>be
>> >>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>> >>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to
>> >>use
>> >>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute
>> >>that
>> >>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>> >>rigger.
>> >>
>> >> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie,
>> >> Strong...etc
>> >> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
>> >> (Assuming
>> >> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>> >>
>> >> Is there anything to watch out for?
>> >>
>> >> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used
>> >> parachute
>> >> to know that it is still safe?
>> >>
>> >> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>> >> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>> >> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
>> >> 150
>> >> knot capability?
>> >>
>> >> What other considerations should I think of?
>> >>
>> >
>> >

Al MacDonald
December 3rd 04, 03:51 PM
Interesting post Peter. Good tip on the shoulder straps. I'd like to add
one thought in here, which you and others might like to seriously consider.
Bail out procedures. To my way of thinking, it could do you a world of harm
to undo your belts and push off your shoulder straps BEFORE opening your
canopy. If the aircraft was out of control, a likely reason for bailing
out, you may find yourself wedged into the canopy or in an odd position that
would not allow you to reach or open the canopy. I bail out of my Pitts all
the time..... in my mind. I practice over and over again so I don't have to
think about it if the time should ever come. I always open the canopy as
the first step in my sequence.

So far I haven't worried about my headset, as I don't have a chin strap, but
when that happens I'll have to have some kind of disconnect. You are right
about the velcro on a chinstrap-- pulled on the shear even 1/2" wide is
incredibly strong stuff!

Cheers,

al.

"Peter Ashwood-Smith C-GZRO" > wrote in message
om...
> Having had precicely one incident in which I had to 'try' to get out
> of my Pitts very quickly (on the ground) I can add some interesting
> 'additional variables' ;)
>
> Make sure your headset is setup in such a manner that it can come
> free easily too. I had an incident on the ground last summer where I
> ran my smoke system to show off for a photographer. I shut the engine
> down too quickly and still had some smoke fluid in the exhaust and of
> course got a small fire under the plane. Nothing that caused any
> damage but all of a sudden I look up and people are running in all
> directions waving madly and yelling 'FIRE' .. well .. I released all
> the buckles, slide the cockpit back jumped out of the plane, only to
> have my head held back by the headset and cables. Not too dangerous
> given I was not moving very fast but had I been in the slipstream it
> could have been pretty violent and I guess could break your neck etc.
> That chin strap held tight even as I tried to yank the thing off.
>
> The other thing I discovered was that the shoulder straps provide
> sufficient friction even when unbuckeled that when you try to stand up
> they will actually prevent you unless you push them off your
> shoulders. Try it some time. Just sit in the plane with all the belts
> undone but the shoulder harnesses lose over your sholders ... now try
> to stand up ... LOTS of resistance.
>
> So .. add to your list:
>
> Detach your chin strap on your headset and/or make sure it is
> very weak and will break away easily. A folded over strap of velcro is
> pretty damn strong!
> If I were building an experimental, my headset jacks would push in
> vertically instead of horizontally to allow them to pull free in the
> case of a baleout.
>
> Push the shoulder straps off each shoulder! Infact bungges or
> elastics to do this may not be a dumb idea.
>
> ALso .. don't run your smoke system on the ground unless you keep
> the engine running for a minute or so afterwards to blow any remaining
> oil out of the pipes. Also don't throttle back with the smoke system
> on while on the ground!
> Oh ... and don't let line guys put 100LL in your smoke tank .. don't
> laugh I've stopped more than one.
>
> By the way .. as an interesting aside ... the only person watching
> that reacted properly was my 11 year old son who ran away from the
> plane to the hanger to get a fire extinguisher.
>
> Cheers and fly safe,
>
> Peter
>
>
>> A good habit to get into is to exit the airplane following each flight
>> while
>> still wearing the parachute. You will find that it catches on something
>> until you learn the proper body position for clearance. If you have to
>> exit
>> in an emergency, the learned body position will make it easier, although
>> you
>> certainly will be dealing with additional variables!
>>
>>
>> BJC
>> Formerly S-1S w National 360
>>
>>
>> "ShawnD2112" > wrote in message
>> k...
>> > Jay,
>> > Was in a similar situation and just this weekend took delivery of a new
>> > Sortie seatpack chute. I didn't know anything about parachutes, didn't
>> > want to become an expert, so I figured I was not a good candidate for
>> > buying a used one. Also I didn't really want to trust my last-chance
>> > piece of equipment to something I didn't know the full history on.
>> > With a
>> > bailout rig, there's no redundant system in case it fails. It cost me
>> > $1,500.00 but I felt it was one piece of equipment that was worth not
>> > scrimping on.
>> >
>> > I phoned Softie and spoke to Jim, explained the kind of flying I do and
>> > what my knowledge base was (none!). He talked me through all the types
>> > of
>> > rigs and the things I needed to consider. It took about 3 or 4 calls
>> > with
>> > various questions and dimensions of myself and the airplane to get
>> > sorted
>> > what I wanted. I haven't used it yet...wait, let me rephrase that...I
>> > haven't worn it yet in the airplane, so I don't know if it all fits in
>> > the
>> > seat pan and I can get in and out of the airplane with it on, but so
>> > far
>> > so good.
>> >
>> > I'd give Softie a call just as a place to start. They were really
>> > helpful
>> > and down to earth. Good luck whichever way you go!
>> >
>> > Shawn
>> > "Jay Moreland" > wrote in message
>> > news:pXbrd.172979$HA.168018@attbi_s01...
>> >>I need advice on a pilot emergency chute. I am only a pilot and know
>> >>nothing about parachutes. I need an emergency parachute because I will
>> >>be
>> >>doing aerobatics in a Pitts-like biplane: required by FAA. My weight is
>> >>#140. The altitude I will be landing if I am unlucky enough to need to
>> >>use
>> >>the chute is 5400 feet. I am considering purchasing a used parachute
>> >>that
>> >>I would have inspected and re-packed regularly by a professional Master
>> >>rigger.
>> >>
>> >> Is buying a 10 year old parachute like a Security, Softie,
>> >> Strong...etc
>> >> going to be significantly less safe than a brand new parachute?
>> >> (Assuming
>> >> it checks out as OK by the Master rigger)
>> >>
>> >> Is there anything to watch out for?
>> >>
>> >> Are there any special tests that I need to have done on a used
>> >> parachute
>> >> to know that it is still safe?
>> >>
>> >> If the red-line on the aircraft is 180kts, should I worry about the
>> >> parachute being rated to only 150 knots or should I assume that I will
>> >> slow down to terminal velocity in an emergency and will only need the
>> >> 150
>> >> knot capability?
>> >>
>> >> What other considerations should I think of?
>> >>
>> >
>> >

DSowder
December 3rd 04, 06:46 PM
I can recommend Para Phernalia and their Softie line of parachutes. Of course,
I'm in Washington only about 300 miles from them..

I got a typical mini-softie backpack with a Pitts S-1 that I bought about 12
years ago, and promptly sent it home to Para Phernalia for inspection and
re-pack. When I switched to an S-2B, after much research I bought two Wedge
Softie backpacks. I love 'em...the B has plenty of legroom, and the Wedge tilts
me back just enough to be really comfortable. I've made several long trips, 10
flight hours in a day, and been very comfortable.

Especially if you're flying an S-2B, seriously consider the wedge, it really
makes a difference. I suppose that the other parachute companies make similar
packs, but I've had excellent service from Para Phernalia. They have a web site
at:

http://www.softieparachutes.com/

I originally had my Wedge's made with the "standard" harness, but discovered
(takes me a while to catch on) that between the Advanced sequences and the
Hooker harness, the buckles were causing more bleeding than was really
necessary. Dan changed my back-seat Wedge to the aerobatic harness with buckles
on the chest. No more bleeding; just a few rasberries early in the season. I'd
recommend the standard harness for the front seat chute, as it's easier to put
on, unless you like to punish your passengers.

Doug Sowder

Google