Winch Engine Broken

[Tetsuya Ueda]

Hello from Japan,

Let me ask for your advice on Tost Engine replacement.
Our TOST 2 drum winch engine (type: Olds 455 Bigblock) blew out last week
and it looks we need to replace it with spare engine.

If anyone know where to search second-hand engine which may fit, our club
appreciates to hear any info.

Unfortunately our club can't afford to buy new one from TOST or Skylaunch,
let us know your idea about any cost-saving option...


Due to lack of forum or good network of glider in Japan, let us seek for
support from UK!

Best,
Ueda

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 03:50 07 July 2017, Tetsuya Ueda wrote:
>Hello from Japan,
>
>Let me ask for your advice on Tost Engine replacement.
>Our TOST 2 drum winch engine (type: Olds 455 Bigblock) blew out
last wee
>and it looks we need to replace it with spare engine.
>
>If anyone know where to search second-hand engine which may
fit, our clu
>appreciates to hear any info.
>
>Unfortunately our club can't afford to buy new one from TOST or
Skylaunch
>let us know your idea about any cost-saving option...
>
>
>Due to lack of forum or good network of glider in Japan, let us
seek fo
>support from UK!
>
>Best,
>Ueda
>
>
>

Ueda,

Difficult! You are looking for an engine fitted in American cars
about 40 years ago. Your best chance must be the USA. Very few
of these cars reached Europe, and I suspect even fewer reached
Japan. Reconditioned engines and spare parts are not easy to find.

We had the same problem in the UK a few years ago. We couldn't
find an Oldsmobile 455 but we were able to find a damaged car with
a Pontiac 403 engine. This fitted straight in. It is not as powerful
as the 455 but it did let us launch Duo Discus gliders.

If you can't find an Oldsmobile or Pontiac engine be aware that
Chevrolet engines of the same age may not fit. Oldsmobile used 6
bolts between engine and gearbox, Chevy used 5 so they don't
match up. If you change engine and gearbox is the propeller shaft
the same? Unfortunately you may have a lot of work to do even
when you find another engine.

Perhaps the US glider pilots can help.

Jim Thomson

[Tom Kelley #711]

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 10:00:06 PM UTC-6, Tetsuya Ueda wrote:
> Hello from Japan,
>
> Let me ask for your advice on Tost Engine replacement.
> Our TOST 2 drum winch engine (type: Olds 455 Bigblock) blew out last week
> and it looks we need to replace it with spare engine.
>
> If anyone know where to search second-hand engine which may fit, our club
> appreciates to hear any info.
>
> Unfortunately our club can't afford to buy new one from TOST or Skylaunch,
> let us know your idea about any cost-saving option...
>
>
> Due to lack of forum or good network of glider in Japan, let us seek for
> support from UK!
>
> Best,
> Ueda

Try Ebay, I found 2 Olds 455 complete engines for sale plus a complete rebuilt kit.
Best. Tom. #711.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osacat=6001&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1311.R4.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xol ds+455.TRS0&_nkw=olds+455+engine&_sacat=6001

[[email protected]]

Many different sources in the US. Here is another:

https://www.powertrainproducts.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1858&gdffi=90b8e24b11a744acaa63a8753e57b2d8&gdfms=F3916FE99C064066A6B8B2EE1CBBCD39&gclid=CjwKEAjw4vzKBRCt9Zmg8f2blgESJADN5fDgYRRcZwks FyxxMUwZU6ntgb2p3GNFj0ASE8GEG9aBdRoCyCDw_wcB

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

What "blew out"?
If it was a head gasket, easy fix.
Broken piston, a little worse.
Worn out rod/main bearings, not bad.
Broken connecting rod which put a hole in the block, pretty bad.

If just parts, not sure who ships to Japan from the US.
Maybe try:
RockAuto.com
SummitRacing.com
PAW.com (Performance Auto Warehouse)

[[email protected]]

Hi Ueda,

Our club in Holland has a tost winch for sale for a very sharp price.
it has little hours and comes with a spare olds mobile 455 engine.

You can contact me at sgagrunder on gmail.com.


best regards
Stephan

[[email protected]]

Hello from Chicago! Our club recently built our Tost winch from a kit and the engine Tost reccomends is the Chevrolet 454 HO. It is still in production and in the USA is easy to find at all major online auto parts suppliers. We bought ours from Jegs for about 5500 dollars. Your challenge is going to be the shipping. Do not buy from Tost or Skylaunch! Why ship an engine from Detroit to Europe to Japan? Order from the online source who will ship for the lowest cost.

Doug Tarmichael
Sky Soaring Glider Club
Dtarmichael at Comcast dot net

[James Thomson[_2_]]

At 14:00 07 July 2017, wrote:
>Hello from Chicago! Our club recently built our Tost winch from a
kit and
>t=
>he engine Tost reccomends is the Chevrolet 454 HO. It is still in
>productio=
>n and in the USA is easy to find at all major online auto parts
suppliers.
>=
>We bought ours from Jegs for about 5500 dollars. Your challenge is
going
>to=
> be the shipping. Do not buy from Tost or Skylaunch! Why ship an
engine
>fro=
>m Detroit to Europe to Japan? Order from the online source who
will ship
>fo=
>r the lowest cost.
>
>Doug Tarmichael=20
>Sky Soaring Glider Club
>Dtarmichael at Comcast dot net
>
A word of caution! The Chevy 454 is not the same engine as an
Oldsmobile 455. In the era in which the Tost winch was built every
GM division designed and built their own engines, and they are not
readily interchangeable. Believe it or not these two engines have
near enough the same swept volume but different bores and
strokes!

Totally agree about sourcing from the US - European middlemen
don't add useful value.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 12:00:06 AM UTC-4, Tetsuya Ueda wrote:
> Hello from Japan,
>
> Let me ask for your advice on Tost Engine replacement.
> Our TOST 2 drum winch engine (type: Olds 455 Bigblock) blew out last week
> and it looks we need to replace it with spare engine.
>
> If anyone know where to search second-hand engine which may fit, our club
> appreciates to hear any info.
>
> Unfortunately our club can't afford to buy new one from TOST or Skylaunch,
> let us know your idea about any cost-saving option...
>
>
> Due to lack of forum or good network of glider in Japan, let us seek for
> support from UK!
>
> Best,
> Ueda

Hi Ueda,

I agree with all of the other advice - there are many of these engines available in the US. We used to do auto tow with a first-generation Oldsmobile Custom Cruiser wagon with the 455 engine. There were hundreds of used ones available and we would routinely find replacements with only a couple of phone calls to salvage yards.

If there are other Tost winches in Japan, you might be better off buying a couple of engines and having them shipped in a container. For a Less than Container Load (LCL) you should be able to get something for well under $1000. The trick will be to find someone in the US who can help with the logistics.

Erik Mann (P3)

[Andy Holmes]

Hi Ueda

I believe Skylaunch have some used 455 Olds engines in stock so it would be

worth contacting them to check price. Price for a used engine will be much

cheaper than for new. European gliding clubs may also have used/spare Olds

455 in stock so it worth advertising on here and segelflug.de or the
various
Glider for sale pages on Facebook.

Otherwise best option is to buy a used or reconditioned Olds 455 from the
USA. This is the simplest fix to replace exactly what you have.

If you convert to Chevy 454 or 502 you'll end up changing various
mountings,
ancillaries, transmission (or using an adapter plate), maybe changing
propshaft length, various parts of the fuel/intake system, exhausts etc.
The
Chevy is a slightly better engine in some respects but the conversion is
bigger than you think because of these implications. It will be a much more

expensive and time-consuming task.

So I suggest your job is to find the best deal for price, engine condition
and
support for a used Olds 455 shipped to Japan, then to swap it over
including
all your existing ancillaries etc. It would also be worth comparing this
price
with an engine rebuild of your existing engine if there are no holes in the

engine block etc. How major was the failure?

Good luck

Andy Holmes
BGA Winch Advisor & Skylaunch consultant




At 14:56 07 July 2017, Papa3 wrote:
>On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 12:00:06 AM UTC-4, Tetsuya Ueda wrote:
>> Hello from Japan,=20
>>=20
>> Let me ask for your advice on Tost Engine replacement.=20
>> Our TOST 2 drum winch engine (type: Olds 455 Bigblock) blew out last
week
>> and it looks we need to replace it with spare engine.
>>=20
>> If anyone know where to search second-hand engine which may fit, our
club
>> appreciates to hear any info.
>>=20
>> Unfortunately our club can't afford to buy new one from TOST or
>Skylaunch=
>,
>> let us know your idea about any cost-saving option...
>>=20
>>=20
>> Due to lack of forum or good network of glider in Japan, let us seek
for
>> support from UK!
>>=20
>> Best,
>> Ueda
>
>Hi Ueda,=20
>
>I agree with all of the other advice - there are many of these engines
>avai=
>lable in the US. We used to do auto tow with a first-generation
>Oldsmobil=
>e Custom Cruiser wagon with the 455 engine. There were hundreds of
used
>o=
>nes available and we would routinely find replacements with only a couple
>o=
>f phone calls to salvage yards. =20
>
>If there are other Tost winches in Japan, you might be better off buying
a
>=
>couple of engines and having them shipped in a container. For a Less
than
>=
>Container Load (LCL) you should be able to get something for well under
>$10=
>00. The trick will be to find someone in the US who can help with the
>logis=
>tics. =20
>
>Erik Mann (P3)
>

[Scott Williams]

Those who operate vintage engines like the olds 455 and the Chevrolet 454 should be aware that these types of engines from the 1960's to the 1980's employed a hydraulic flat nose camshaft and tappet followers which requires a high heavy metal component in their lubricating oils (Zinc phosphate etc) these oil formulas have been mostly replaced by ecologically safer oils which do not provide the lubricity and extreme pressure additives to allow these valve train designs to survive any length of time at all. Failures can occur in hours not years. an expensive stopgap measure is to use one of several race engine blends of oil, or replace the valvtrain with a full roller bearing configuration. the replacement option is really only viable if you need to keep a valuable classic car running, as retrofit roller valvetrains can run into the thousands of dollars.
A much more economical option is to rework your winch to use a commercial diesel or modern truck engine, while more work now, using 50 year newer technology will pay dividends for years to come.
Best wishes,
Scott

[Tetsuya Ueda]

Thank you very much to those who kindly replied to my post.

All of your info are so much appreciated.
Since the engine fault was last week and we are still checking if there is

any engineer who can repair this badly damaged engine with hole.

Our club may buy a second hand one, but taking your advice, we will
consider more options.

Again, I am very pleased to receive many good advice from overseas.
I will update on our club's decision.

Ueda

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello Ueda

you also may consider a complete different engine. Our club in northern
Germany uses a tost winch, too and in the 1980ies fitted a Mercedes Benz
330 HP Turbo-Diesel truck engine which works fine up to now. No Gearbox
required, just the torque converter between engine and drive shaft. You
may have to change the gear transmission ratio to adapt it to the
different revolution speed range and do some more minor changes. I could
help with construction schemes - hope I have found the correct terms, my
english is somewhat poor :-/

regards

Werner

[George Haeh]

The suggested options involve expensive shipping.

Would there be any Japanese engines, perhaps with transmission, that could
be
fitted? That would make parts and maintenance much simpler.

A diesel truck engine could be great.

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, July 8, 2017 at 6:23:42 AM UTC-5, Werner Schmidt wrote:
> Hello Ueda
>
> you also may consider a complete different engine. Our club in northern
> Germany uses a tost winch, too and in the 1980ies fitted a Mercedes Benz
> 330 HP Turbo-Diesel truck engine which works fine up to now. No Gearbox
> required, just the torque converter between engine and drive shaft. You
> may have to change the gear transmission ratio to adapt it to the
> different revolution speed range and do some more minor changes. I could
> help with construction schemes - hope I have found the correct terms, my
> english is somewhat poor :-/
>
> regards
>
> Werner

Werner,
We got a similar (identical?) Benz Diesel in the mid-80's together with a modified axle from their test shop for free (Luftsportverein Hameln/Bisperode). The engine and axle still are still in great shape. Not an option for us here in the US and for sure not in Japan.
Herbert, J7

[Werner Schmidt]

wrote 2017/07/10 at 20:33:

> We got a similar (identical?) Benz Diesel in the mid-80's together with a modified axle from their test shop for free (Luftsportverein Hameln/Bisperode). The engine and axle still are still in great shape. Not an option for us here in the US and for sure not in Japan.

may be. What I wanted to say is that it's not too hard to fit another
Type of engine into the tost winch than the original one. Truck (Diesel)
Engines should be available also in Japan, and with some search and luck
affordable ones, too.

regards
Werner