New Self-Service Soaring Ad Site

[TraderGuy]

www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.

Features include:
- Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
- Dial-up connection-friendly
- A "search" function
- An easy-to-use interface
- Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
spam
- Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.

Enjoy.

[Jeremy Zawodny]

TraderGuy wrote:
> www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
> ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.
>
> Features include:
> - Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
> - Dial-up connection-friendly
> - A "search" function
> - An easy-to-use interface
> - Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
> spam
> - Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.

I don't get it.

How does having Yet Another Place to Look help the sailplane market?

Right now, a lot of folks hit Tim's Wings & Wheels Want Ads, the SSA
Classifieds, and this group. And there are a few on-line forums that
I've seen too. Now you're adding another one to the mix.

Ugh.

Will this help the sellers or buyers?

Jeremy

[Liam Finley]

Jeremy Zawodny > wrote in message >...
> TraderGuy wrote:
> How does having Yet Another Place to Look help the sailplane market?
>
> Right now, a lot of folks hit Tim's Wings & Wheels Want Ads, the SSA
> Classifieds, and this group. And there are a few on-line forums that
> I've seen too. Now you're adding another one to the mix.
>
> Ugh.
>
> Will this help the sellers or buyers?
>
> Jeremy

Well, the SSA classifieds don't give you pictures, and it's free only
for a limited time and limited text. Wings and Wheels is good but you
have to go through Tim and there can be delays if he's out of town or
whatnot. I think the idea of a self-service site is a good one. If
you don't like it, you can ignore it.

[Tim Mara]

the only time I have been out of town (or what not :-) in several years has
been to the SSA conventions.....
the W&W want-ads are updated every day..sometimes several times a
day.....(today there were already at least 3 new entries).even on most
weekends they still get updates....
this is a free service.....never have had a charge for buyers or
sellers....these pages get several hundreds of hits daily....
tim
Wings & Wheels
www.wingsandwheels.com
want-ads on http://wingsandwheels.com/want_ads.htm

"Liam Finley" > wrote in message
om...
> Jeremy Zawodny > wrote in message
>...
> > TraderGuy wrote:
> > How does having Yet Another Place to Look help the sailplane market?
> >
> > Right now, a lot of folks hit Tim's Wings & Wheels Want Ads, the SSA
> > Classifieds, and this group. And there are a few on-line forums that
> > I've seen too. Now you're adding another one to the mix.
> >
> > Ugh.
> >
> > Will this help the sellers or buyers?
> >
> > Jeremy
>
> Well, the SSA classifieds don't give you pictures, and it's free only
> for a limited time and limited text. Wings and Wheels is good but you
> have to go through Tim and there can be delays if he's out of town or
> whatnot. I think the idea of a self-service site is a good one. If
> you don't like it, you can ignore it.

[Jack]

On 3/2/04 12:38 PM, in article , "Tim
Mara" > wrote:

> the W&W want-ads are updated every day..sometimes several times a
> day.....(today there were already at least 3 new entries).even on most
> weekends they still get updates....
> this is a free service.....never have had a charge for buyers or
> sellers....these pages get several hundreds of hits daily....
> tim
> Wings & Wheels
> www.wingsandwheels.com
> want-ads on http://wingsandwheels.com/want_ads.htm

Thanks for the service you provide, Tim.

I am buying a glider that was advertised on Wings & Wheels and I'll use the
service again when/if I ever sell it.



Jack
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Tim Mara]

you're certainly welcome!
thanks
tim
"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/2/04 12:38 PM, in article ,
"Tim
> Mara" > wrote:
>
> > the W&W want-ads are updated every day..sometimes several times a
> > day.....(today there were already at least 3 new entries).even on most
> > weekends they still get updates....
> > this is a free service.....never have had a charge for buyers or
> > sellers....these pages get several hundreds of hits daily....
> > tim
> > Wings & Wheels
> > www.wingsandwheels.com
> > want-ads on http://wingsandwheels.com/want_ads.htm
>
> Thanks for the service you provide, Tim.
>
> I am buying a glider that was advertised on Wings & Wheels and I'll use
the
> service again when/if I ever sell it.
>
>
>
> Jack
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>

[Liam Finley]

"Tim Mara" > wrote in message >...
> the only time I have been out of town (or what not :-) in several years has
> been to the SSA conventions.....

Sounds like you need to get out more. (:-|)

[Tim Mara]

tell me about it..
tim
"Liam Finley" > wrote in message
om...
> "Tim Mara" > wrote in message
>...
> > the only time I have been out of town (or what not :-) in several years
has
> > been to the SSA conventions.....
>
> Sounds like you need to get out more. (:-|)

[Al]

Now is it me seeing this or has this guy ripped all the forsale gliders from
wings and wheels?

Tim care to comment on your site being ripped off?

Al



"TraderGuy" > wrote in message
om...
> www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
> ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.
>
> Features include:
> - Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
> - Dial-up connection-friendly
> - A "search" function
> - An easy-to-use interface
> - Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
> spam
> - Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.
>
> Enjoy.

[Tim Mara]

It is very obvious that what Traderguy (whoever he is, he doesn't even give
a real persons name or any address other than an anonymous "temp" web
address) has done is simply copy and paste text, including spelling errors
and bad grammar from the Wings & Wheels want-ads.
I can't say what his motive is by doing so other than he was trying to
charge buyers and sellers for what I have done for years completely free of
charge or is selling email addresses to other SPAM artists.
I started the W&W Want-ads because I saw a real need for it at the time,
there were a couple other more feeble attempts to build a want-ads site for
gliders but these were never kept up to date (I request every seller to
inform me when their glider is sold and it is immediately moved to the sold
page from the listings).....obviously since it is free, some sellers rejoice
when their ship is sold and forget where the buyer got the
information......such is life) I even send emails periodically to sellers to
see if their ads are still viable, often to find their email address isn't
even still in use...that happens too......when I don't get response or get
returned email I delete the ad then also. But trying to run a business and
provide a free service too makes it impossible to contact every buyer and
seller to make these 100% up-to-date, but there is an effort to do so and
these remain the most useful want-ads on the internet and have been
responsible I know to several 100's of glider sales...and this is really
good for Soaring as a sport.......my main concern..
I suspect by ripping off websites and ad's from the W&W website anyone whop
uses soaringtrader ads will find they are not as accurate and may become a
waste of time......both for potential buyers and sellers alike....and
eventually seal the fate of users and soaring trader as well....
Like I said, what I do here is free.always ahs been and ALWAYS will
be.....anyone with 2 fingers can hit the Ctrl and the C key and Ctrl and V
key......doesn't take much talent to do this ...I really can't stop
them....I just hope it doesn't have ill effects on moving gliders and owners
together. I suspect the only real motive for soaringtrader guy whoever he is
aside from trying to build something from nothing and hopefully find a way
to charge for it might be to sell addresses to spam specialists..if this is
the case as I would suspect, then it might behoove anyone who does have a
listing there to contact traderguy and ask him to remove their ads...
until then.....I just keep updating (already 3 fresh changes to the W&W ads
just since 9 AM today :-)
tim
www.wingsandwheels.com

"Al" > wrote in message
...
> Now is it me seeing this or has this guy ripped all the forsale gliders
from
> wings and wheels?
>
> Tim care to comment on your site being ripped off?
>
> Al
>
>
>
> "TraderGuy" > wrote in message
> om...
> > www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
> > ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.
> >
> > Features include:
> > - Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
> > - Dial-up connection-friendly
> > - A "search" function
> > - An easy-to-use interface
> > - Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
> > spam
> > - Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.
> >
> > Enjoy.
>
>

[TraderGuy]

Well, the last thing I expected was controversy.

www.soaringtrader.com was created in the interest of trying to provide
a more feature-rich, automated, classifieds service to our community
as well as to provide another professional looking site to represent
the sport. I like to think we met those goals and I've heard from
some people who agree. I'll also point out that soaring trader is not
ad/sponsor supported and doesn't seek income as some other sites do.
There's nothing wrong with that - it's just another difference.

Regarding there being a number of classifieds sites, that's free
market Econ 101. Soaring trader is not the first such site and it
certainly won't be the last.

That said, I'm willing to speed the free market a bit in order to
address the issue of the dangerous proliferation of soaring info and
photos ;)

If the SSA wants to adopt this site (complete site, code, whatever),
I'll donate it (does someone from SSA.org read this newsgroup?). I'd
like to see the SSA host the best classifieds site and hope they could
benefit from it. I understand there are a lot of SSA Web site changes
in the works so maybe they're already close to releasing something
even better than soaringtrader.com. If so, the soaring trader domain
will be happily forwarded to SSA.org.

If the SSA doesn't take up the challenge, I'll make a similar offer to
www.wingsandwheels.com in the interest of consolidating content,
adding features, adding interface appeal and reducing Tim's workload
so he can get out more often. I also appreciate what Tim's done.

All of this assumes that there is a better interface and better
features at soaringtrader.com which is subjective. If you disagree,
please don't attack me. I've got the best of intentions and I hope
you've got better things to do.

Finally, if everything stays the same, www.soaringtrader.com will
remain an independent service that will be used if it's good or will
die-off if not.

Have a good day.


P.S.
I just read the most recent post. Tim, this is a hobby (not a
business or wanna-be business) with a goal of doing something helpful.
If it's not perceived as such, I'm sorry. Read my FAQ and "about us"
for more info. This would be a hell of a bad way to harvest people's
e-mail addresses for sale to spammers.

Also, I asked permission of the poster of each soaring ad from any
source I could find in order to seed the new site. I'll send you a
copy of the e-mail and my contact info, which isn't hidden. Some
people said "no" or didn't respond and their ads were not posted.
When a poster wanted the ad placed on www.soaringtrader.com, they
generally wanted it verbatim. In other cases, they changed it.

Everyone who has an ad posted can delete it themselves if they like -
it's a self-service Web site, which is the point of the whole thing.

In the worst possible case, this was just a bad idea (though I've had
some really great feedback) - not an evil plot.

Let's all lighten up a bit.





"Al" > wrote in message >...
> Now is it me seeing this or has this guy ripped all the forsale gliders from
> wings and wheels?
>
> Tim care to comment on your site being ripped off?
>
> Al
>
>
>
> "TraderGuy" > wrote in message
> om...
> > www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
> > ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.
> >
> > Features include:
> > - Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
> > - Dial-up connection-friendly
> > - A "search" function
> > - An easy-to-use interface
> > - Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
> > spam
> > - Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.
> >
> > Enjoy.

[Mark]

I think so too. Even grammatical errors and strange writing and
punctuation are carried over. What are the chances that everyone
always uses the same blurb in every ad they place?

If you know someone with a glider listed on W&W that is now listed on
soaringtrader, you could ask them if they placed the ad at both
places.

Looks like soaringtrader.com is hosted out of Germany (not that
there's anything wrong with that).

Mark



"Al" > wrote in message >...
> Now is it me seeing this or has this guy ripped all the forsale gliders from
> wings and wheels?
>
> Tim care to comment on your site being ripped off?
>
> Al
>
>
>
> "TraderGuy" > wrote in message
> om...
> > www.soaringtrader.com is a new (and free!) site for posting classified
> > ads for sailplanes and soaring-related items.
> >
> > Features include:
> > - Ability to submit, modify and delete your own ad
> > - Dial-up connection-friendly
> > - A "search" function
> > - An easy-to-use interface
> > - Obscures the poster's e-mail address (if they desire that) to avoid
> > spam
> > - Ads are deleted after a set period unless renewed by the poster.
> >
> > Enjoy.

[Bob]

(Mark) wrote in message >...
> I think so too. Even grammatical errors and strange writing and
> punctuation are carried over. What are the chances that everyone
> always uses the same blurb in every ad they place?
>
> If you know someone with a glider listed on W&W that is now listed on
> soaringtrader, you could ask them if they placed the ad at both
> places.
>
> Looks like soaringtrader.com is hosted out of Germany (not that
> there's anything wrong with that).
>
> Mark


I couldn't help but notice though, the Soaringtrader website is easier
on the eye, faster to download and perhaps better laid out.

Bob

[Vorsanger1]

For one of us who missed the original post: what is the address for
"soaringtrader" ?

Cheers, Charles

[Mark]

I think that is mostly a matter of personal preference. The reason it
is faster to download is that you are getting less information. You
get only tiny thumbnail photos (of arguable value) and no
descriptions. If you want that, you have to drill down through each
listing. I would rather have to wait an extra second for the page to
load than to have to click a gazillion times (and manage the resulting
navigation) to get larger photos and details. I'm spoiled by broadband
though. If you're on dialup, I could see where soaring trader would be
faster to look at only the few ads you are interested in. I like
looking at all of them, because I'm still a newbie learning about the
various types.

W&W's graphic design is a little, um, colorful. Just think of it as
adding character.

The advantage of a database backed site like soaring trader is that it
becomes easy to implement search and sort functions, automation of ad
expiration, new ad notifications, and so on.

Regardless of usability issues, it's still not OK to seed your site
with ads from other sources. (and then place a Copyright notice on
them!)

Incidentally, the search function on soaringtrader doesn't appear to
be working (e.g. searching for "ventus" returned no ads). What I'd
really like to be able to search by is price range, make and/or type
of construction.

Mark

(Bob) wrote in message >...
> I couldn't help but notice though, the Soaringtrader website is easier
> on the eye, faster to download and perhaps better laid out.
>
> Bob

[Wayne Paul]

The Soaring Trader URL is http://www.soaringtrader.com

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

"Vorsanger1" > wrote in message
...
> For one of us who missed the original post: what is the address for
> "soaringtrader" ?
>
> Cheers, Charles