Ely, Nevada - Accident?

[Renny[_2_]]

I just saw this NTSB report regarding an accident at Ely on July 5th. Does anyone have any additional info on this accident? I am REALLY hoping that the pilot is OK.....Thanks - Renny

NTSB Identification: GAA17CA386
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Wednesday, July 05, 2017 in Ely, NV
Aircraft: ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASH 31 MI, registration: N31MX
NTSB investigators will use data provided by various entities, including, but not limited to, the Federal Aviation Administration and/or the operator, and will not travel in support of this investigation to prepare this aircraft accident report.

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 1:48:11 PM UTC-4, Renny wrote:
> I just saw this NTSB report regarding an accident at Ely on July 5th. Does anyone have any additional info on this accident? I am REALLY hoping that the pilot is OK.....Thanks - Renny

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/07/schleicher-ash-31mi-n31mx-incident.html

"minor injuries" reported

best,
T8

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 11:51:50 AM UTC-6, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 1:48:11 PM UTC-4, Renny wrote:
> > I just saw this NTSB report regarding an accident at Ely on July 5th. Does anyone have any additional info on this accident? I am REALLY hoping that the pilot is OK.....Thanks - Renny
>
> http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/07/schleicher-ash-31mi-n31mx-incident.html
>
> "minor injuries" reported
>
> best,
> T8

I am glad the pilot is OK!
Thanks - Renny

[jfitch]

The story I have heard is pilot lost control in really nasty thermal top, perhaps spin and recovery straight down or inverted, felt the glider was broken or uncontrollable and punched out. Walked back to the FBO. Glider is a ASH31, lying in a remote canyon outside of Ely.

Things can get really nasty out of Ely sometimes.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 10:48:11 AM UTC-7, Renny wrote:
> I just saw this NTSB report regarding an accident at Ely on July 5th. Does anyone have any additional info on this accident? I am REALLY hoping that the pilot is OK.....Thanks - Renny
>
> NTSB Identification: GAA17CA386
> 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
> Accident occurred Wednesday, July 05, 2017 in Ely, NV
> Aircraft: ALEXANDER SCHLEICHER GMBH & CO ASH 31 MI, registration: N31MX
> NTSB investigators will use data provided by various entities, including, but not limited to, the Federal Aviation Administration and/or the operator, and will not travel in support of this investigation to prepare this aircraft accident report.

I talked with him next day in hanger. He answered he did not put too much water on tail. I flew on the same day there. I did not have unusual turbulence.

[[email protected]]

Well I'm glad the pilot is ok, but curious if there is a lesson I should learn here. Given a good distance from anything else hard, this doesn't seem like it should result in an unscheduled disassembly.

If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)

So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?

The NTSB seems to say that a stall spin should result in a broken glider. This doesn't seem right unless there is no other margin.

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:25:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Well I'm glad the pilot is ok, but curious if there is a lesson I should learn here. Given a good distance from anything else hard, this doesn't seem like it should result in an unscheduled disassembly.
>
> If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
>
> So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?
>
> The NTSB seems to say that a stall spin should result in a broken glider. This doesn't seem right unless there is no other margin.

There have been a number of accidents resulting from spins degrading into high-speed spiral dives. Particularly with some of the long wing birds. Not saying it's unavoidable, but it is something for all of us to keep in mind.

Cheers,
Craig
7Q

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Some gliders will recover from spin into a spiral dive without any apparent visual change. However, rudder opposite spin doesn't stop spin. Now you are pointing earthward building speed rapidly. I know, I have had this happen in a 2-32. The POH for a 29 warns of such spin behavior.


On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:25:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Well I'm glad the pilot is ok, but curious if there is a lesson I should learn here. Given a good distance from anything else hard, this doesn't seem like it should result in an unscheduled disassembly.
>
> If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
>
> So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?
>
> The NTSB seems to say that a stall spin should result in a broken glider. This doesn't seem right unless there is no other margin.

[2G]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 6:03:51 PM UTC-8, Craig Funston wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:25:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> > Well I'm glad the pilot is ok, but curious if there is a lesson I should learn here. Given a good distance from anything else hard, this doesn't seem like it should result in an unscheduled disassembly.
> >
> > If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
> >
> > So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?
> >
> > The NTSB seems to say that a stall spin should result in a broken glider. This doesn't seem right unless there is no other margin.
>
> There have been a number of accidents resulting from spins degrading into high-speed spiral dives. Particularly with some of the long wing birds. Not saying it's unavoidable, but it is something for all of us to keep in mind.
>
> Cheers,
> Craig
> 7Q

It takes about 8 sec of freefall to reach the glider's VNE of 145 kt (less if the glider's forward speed is converted to the vertical, in which case it may take only 5 sec). To some this may seem like an eternity, to others it happens in a flash. As always, this situation requires the immediate application of the appropriate recovery sequence

Tom

[[email protected]]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 5:25:48 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Well I'm glad the pilot is ok, but curious if there is a lesson I should learn here. Given a good distance from anything else hard, this doesn't seem like it should result in an unscheduled disassembly.
>
> If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
>
> So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?
>
> The NTSB seems to say that a stall spin should result in a broken glider. This doesn't seem right unless there is no other margin.

I believe there is no another glider near by such as in the same thermal.
I believe 2000ft AGL. Ely is 6000FT. He was above hill top which is 8000ft. NTSB report tells he was 10,000ft.

He said what he learned was that attach locating device with him such as parachute.

[flgliderpilot[_2_]]

>
> If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
>
> So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?

It's possible the glider inverted for a moment going well past VNE.

This video is an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPWaNxTP-SA

[flgliderpilot[_2_]]

9:51 PM (less than a minute ago)


>
> If you are thermaling, the glider is not operating anywhere near a structural limit like any max G or speed. Flying an inattentive slow circle makes for the stall and subsequent spin. (Ask me how I know.)
>
> So why not just fly out of the unusual attitude? Was there another glider, or not enough distance to the ground? Or perhaps there was a problem with the recovery?

It's possible the glider inverted for a moment going over vno and something broke

This video is an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPWaNxTP-SA

[George Haeh]

Coming back down a dark cloud street over a mountain valley I pulled into a

vigorous thermal at 50 kt.

Some 270° in the first turn I was flipped inverted and spat out on a
downline in
an eye blink. The trace showed an 11kt drop in TAS in one second followed
by a
9 kt increase one second later.

Best to get the stick back before the airspeed builds recovering from
inverted.

While many glider manuals allow loops, there's very few that allow rolls.

[Bob T]

On Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 2:44:22 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
> The story I have heard is pilot lost control in really nasty thermal top, perhaps spin and recovery straight down or inverted, felt the glider was broken or uncontrollable and punched out. Walked back to the FBO. Glider is a ASH31, lying in a remote canyon outside of Ely.
>
> Things can get really nasty out of Ely sometimes.

Been there, done that. Give this a read: http://www.danlj.org/~danlj/Soaring/SoaringRx/2013-01-Rogue-Air-Oct2014-p20-29_Bob_Thompson.pdf