Shop Layout Questions

[GreenPilot]

I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
consider?

I will be building with aluminum (no composites) so temperature, other
than my personal comfort, won't be an issue.

Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
building?

TIA.

[B2431]

>From: (GreenPilot)
>Date: 6/30/2004 3:43 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
>for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
>and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
>and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
>consider?
>
>I will be building with aluminum (no composites) so temperature, other
>than my personal comfort, won't be an issue.
>
>Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
>another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
>building?
>
>TIA.

The bench should be in or near the middle or far enough from a wall so you can
work from both sides. The compressor is more prone to corrosion if outside.

A rolling tool box as well as shelves and pegboards on a wall should suffice.
The tools only have to be easily reached, not in the way. A rolling tool box
also has the advantage of having a flat top so you lay tools and parts out and
handy.

If I were me I'd walk around the open floor trying to visualize the best layout
for YOU.

Resiliant floor matts near your bench will make standing for long periods
easier.

You are going to make a mess so however you lay your shop out think of ways to
make clean up as simple as possible.

Good luck with your project.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Richard Lamb]

B2431 wrote:
>
> >From: (GreenPilot)
> >Date: 6/30/2004 3:43 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
> >for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
> >and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
> >and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
> >consider?
> >
> >I will be building with aluminum (no composites) so temperature, other
> >than my personal comfort, won't be an issue.
> >
> >Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
> >another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
> >building?
> >
> >TIA.
>
> The bench should be in or near the middle or far enough from a wall so you can
> work from both sides. The compressor is more prone to corrosion if outside.
>
> A rolling tool box as well as shelves and pegboards on a wall should suffice.
> The tools only have to be easily reached, not in the way. A rolling tool box
> also has the advantage of having a flat top so you lay tools and parts out and
> handy.
>
> If I were me I'd walk around the open floor trying to visualize the best layout
> for YOU.
>
> Resiliant floor matts near your bench will make standing for long periods
> easier.
>
> You are going to make a mess so however you lay your shop out think of ways to
> make clean up as simple as possible.
>
> Good luck with your project.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

OUTSIDE air compressor room(!), and air piped around the shop?
Some people use PVC pipe for that, but I'm too chicken.
Mine is iron gas pipe.

[Cy Galley]

I would protect yourself with ground fault interrupters. One GCF can
protect several outlets.
If you have any fuel burning heaters, get a CO detector.
--
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
...
> B2431 wrote:
> >
> > >From: (GreenPilot)
> > >Date: 6/30/2004 3:43 PM Central Daylight Time
> > >Message-id: >
> > >
> > >I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
> > >for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
> > >and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
> > >and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
> > >consider?
> > >
> > >I will be building with aluminum (no composites) so temperature, other
> > >than my personal comfort, won't be an issue.
> > >
> > >Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
> > >another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
> > >building?
> > >
> > >TIA.
> >
> > The bench should be in or near the middle or far enough from a wall so
you can
> > work from both sides. The compressor is more prone to corrosion if
outside.
> >
> > A rolling tool box as well as shelves and pegboards on a wall should
suffice.
> > The tools only have to be easily reached, not in the way. A rolling tool
box
> > also has the advantage of having a flat top so you lay tools and parts
out and
> > handy.
> >
> > If I were me I'd walk around the open floor trying to visualize the best
layout
> > for YOU.
> >
> > Resiliant floor matts near your bench will make standing for long
periods
> > easier.
> >
> > You are going to make a mess so however you lay your shop out think of
ways to
> > make clean up as simple as possible.
> >
> > Good luck with your project.
> >
> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> OUTSIDE air compressor room(!), and air piped around the shop?
> Some people use PVC pipe for that, but I'm too chicken.
> Mine is iron gas pipe.

[Morgans]

"Richard Lamb" > wrote> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> OUTSIDE air compressor room(!), and air piped around the shop?
> Some people use PVC pipe for that, but I'm too chicken.
> Mine is iron gas pipe.

I'll take my noise maker (compressor) outside any day. Also make note of
the use of _iron_ pipe, not galvanized. Put your air disconnect in a "T",
with a foot of pipe below the "T", with a petcock to drain off water.
--
Jim in NC


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[Craig]

Richard Lamb > wrote in message news:<


> OUTSIDE air compressor room(!), and air piped around the shop?
> Some people use PVC pipe for that, but I'm too chicken.
> Mine is iron gas pipe.

I'll second putting the compressor outside the normal work area.

As to using PVC....well use it only if you like playing with bombs
with random length fuses... when it lets go, it becomes a shrapnel
generating machine. Also, let us know your shop location so we can
avoid being close to it.

The PVC and CPVC pressure ratings are for incompessible fluids only.
When you rerate the pipe using the correct formulas and apply the
correction factors for compressible fluid service and for operating
temps, you will find that the stamped 200 psi working pressure is now
about 4 psi.....

Now lots of people will pooh-pooh this and tell you that they have
been using it for years without a problem....just means that they
haven't had a failure yet. Take the time and read the exact working
of the ASTM rating stamped on that piece of PVC or CPVC as well as run
the numbers for yourself. I'll gladly point you to the specs and codes
as well as numerous vendor sites.

If you don't like this answer, then do a Google search on air and PVC
over in rec.crafts.metalworking. Lots of real world experience with
the failure side of PVC used as air lines over there.

Craig C.

[Shelly]

GreenPilot wrote:

>I have a 20'x20' shop
>
I'm sure you realize that isn't much room
when it comes time to assemble the project -
wings and empennage to fuselage? What
are you going to build?

Shelly

[GreenPilot]

All great pointers. I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Now...to the shop!

[pacplyer]

(Craig) wrote in message >...
> Richard Lamb > wrote in message news:<
>
>
> > OUTSIDE air compressor room(!), and air piped around the shop?
> > Some people use PVC pipe for that, but I'm too chicken.
> > Mine is iron gas pipe.
>
> I'll second putting the compressor outside the normal work area.
>
> As to using PVC....well use it only if you like playing with bombs
> with random length fuses... when it lets go, it becomes a shrapnel
> generating machine. Also, let us know your shop location so we can
> avoid being close to it.
>
> The PVC and CPVC pressure ratings are for incompessible fluids only.
> When you rerate the pipe using the correct formulas and apply the
> correction factors for compressible fluid service and for operating
> temps, you will find that the stamped 200 psi working pressure is now
> about 4 psi.....
>
> Now lots of people will pooh-pooh this and tell you that they have
> been using it for years without a problem....just means that they
> haven't had a failure yet. Take the time and read the exact working
> of the ASTM rating stamped on that piece of PVC or CPVC as well as run
> the numbers for yourself. I'll gladly point you to the specs and codes
> as well as numerous vendor sites.
>
> If you don't like this answer, then do a Google search on air and PVC
> over in rec.crafts.metalworking. Lots of real world experience with
> the failure side of PVC used as air lines over there.
>
> Craig C.
>

Craig's right. We put pvc all through my hangar and forgot to glue
one joint after dry fit. It went off like a pipe bomb with a sharp
peice hitting me in the face after whizzing by the eyes of my friend
and bouncing off a wall. Close call. You don't want to use this idea
unless it's good new schedule 40 stuff and you put it in the wall
behind sheetrock on purlings or something. Even then you may have
just built yourself a ticking sheetrock bomb (I don't know.) If it
sits out in the sun with the door open, you're getting UV damage and
the failure will happen a lot sooner. Also we discovered that the
straight sections are only schedule 125: they were sitting in the
Schedule 40 bin at Home Depot. I can't believe that I fell for that.
I thought it was a new thin-wall formulation or something (no legible
markings on the pipes.) But the nice new looking extruded stuff is
just 125psi sprinkler pipe and I'm at about 110psi in the shop.
Between that and the green lumber I don't think I'm going to go back
to Home Depot. IMHO use iron water pipe. And don't screw around with
those cheap oil-less air compressors. They just never recover,
running up your power bill and making your neighbors deaf.

[Don Lewis n FTW]

> Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
> another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
> building?
>
> TIA.

You might want to look at this for your construction table/tables...
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm

Don n FTW

[Richard Lamb]

pacplyer wrote:
>
> (snipped - because Jim will bite my ass if I don't!)

> IMHO use iron water pipe. And don't screw around with
> those cheap oil-less air compressors. They just never recover,
> running up your power bill and making your neighbors deaf.


NOW he tells me...

[Richard Lamb]

GreenPilot wrote:
>
> All great pointers. I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Now...to the shop!

One more - something I wish I had - a sink.

[John Kunkel]

"GreenPilot" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
> for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
> and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
> and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
> consider?
>
> Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
> another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
> building?

I'm of the opinion than any vacant horizontal surface will eventually become
"storage". I prefer a smaller workbench surface with the additional footage
devoted to verticle storage.

[Rich S.]

"John Kunkel" > wrote in message
news:erXEc.8052$XM6.6112@attbi_s53...
>
> I'm of the opinion than any vacant horizontal surface will eventually
become
> "storage". I prefer a smaller workbench surface with the additional
footage
> devoted to verticle storage.

You've got that 100% right!

Rich "Who stole my hammer? S.

[Frank Stutzman]

I'm in the process of setting up my shop as well. One of the things I'm
going to do is to set up a small area with desk, book shelving and good
(reading) lighting. This is to be the place where all referance materials
and documentaion lives. It might have a computer with internet access
there so that I can access a cdrom and the internet without going back to
the house.

I just know if I keep the paper stuff in the house, I'm going to drag some
of it to the shop. Then I'll never be able to find a particular referance
when I need it.



--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Jim Carriere]

"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
> I'm in the process of setting up my shop as well. One of the things I'm
> going to do is to set up a small area with desk, book shelving and good
> (reading) lighting. This is to be the place where all referance materials
> and documentaion lives. It might have a computer with internet access
> there so that I can access a cdrom and the internet without going back to
> the house.

If you're going to put a modern personal computer in a workshop, here is an
idea:

Something I do with my PC is to put an air filter where the cooling air gets
sucked in. I have a couple fans pushing air out the back of the case and
one sucking it in the front. Between that intake fan and the plastic case
is a metal grate, and I use a dryer sheet (as in fabric softener) there as
filter media. Of course this involves taking the sides and front off the
case, pretty basic stuff compared to building an airplane.

Changing this out a couple times a year or so reveals a LOT of crud on the
filter, but inside the case, the motherboard and cards are always fairly
clean.

I'm sure you could buy something that works just as well, but my system is
lightweight, cheap, and experimental/amateur built. :)

My computer also survived six months in running about 24-7, using said
homemade filter, on the floor of a dirty office on a warship, a similarly
hostile environment to a workshop. Come to think of it, I never did find
the "B" key on my old keyboard after that cruise... (?!)

[B2431]

>From: "Don Lewis n FTW"
>Date: 7/1/2004 9:48 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>> Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
>> another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
>> building?
>>
>> TIA.
>
>You might want to look at this for your construction table/tables...
>http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm
>
>Don n FTW

My bench has masonite screwed (not glued) to the plywood top. This way it's
easy to resurface when it gets chewed up. I used to have a reloading press
bolted to the top. I removed it and the masonite glued some dowels into the
bolt holes and put down a new sheet of masonite. I used the old masonite for
gussets when making jigs.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[B2431]

>From: Richard Lamb
>Date: 7/1/2004 10:53 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>GreenPilot wrote:
>>
>> All great pointers. I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Now...to the shop!
>
>One more - something I wish I had - a sink.

Great for washing the gashes on your hands from checking that part you thought
you had just deburred. This brings me to something important: have a first aid
kit with extra bandages handy.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[nauga]

Richard Lamb wrote:

> pacplyer wrote:
> >
> > (snipped - because Jim will bite my ass if I don't!)
>
> > IMHO use iron water pipe. And don't screw around with
> > those cheap oil-less air compressors. They just never recover,
> > running up your power bill and making your neighbors deaf.
>
>
> NOW he tells me...

WHAT?

Dave 'oil fired' Hyde

[Blueskies]

Beat me to it.... :-[

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"nauga" > wrote in message nk.net...
> Richard Lamb wrote:
>
> > pacplyer wrote:
> > >
> > > (snipped - because Jim will bite my ass if I don't!)
> >
> > > IMHO use iron water pipe. And don't screw around with
> > > those cheap oil-less air compressors. They just never recover,
> > > running up your power bill and making your neighbors deaf.
> >
> >
> > NOW he tells me...
>
> WHAT?
>
> Dave 'oil fired' Hyde
>
>
>

[Blueskies]

and a fire extinguisher...

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"B2431" > wrote in message ...
> >From: Richard Lamb
> >Date: 7/1/2004 10:53 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >GreenPilot wrote:
> >>
> >> All great pointers. I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Now...to the shop!
> >
> >One more - something I wish I had - a sink.
>
> Great for washing the gashes on your hands from checking that part you thought
> you had just deburred. This brings me to something important: have a first aid
> kit with extra bandages handy.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>

[Blueskies]

I call them horizontal clutter magnets

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"John Kunkel" > wrote in message news:erXEc.8052$XM6.6112@attbi_s53...
>
> "GreenPilot" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
> > for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
> > and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
> > and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
> > consider?
> >
> > Should I just build a big workbench down one side, put tools on
> > another, put a compressor outside, and leave the floor space for
> > building?
>
> I'm of the opinion than any vacant horizontal surface will eventually become
> "storage". I prefer a smaller workbench surface with the additional footage
> devoted to verticle storage.
>
>
>

[B2431]

>From: "Blueskies"
>Date: 7/1/2004 6:59 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>and a fire extinguisher...
>
>--
>Dan D.
>http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html
>

Great for throwing at the "friend" who asks "do ya really expect that thing to
fly?"

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Ebby]

I built three of the EAA 1000 tables. I made them just a bit wider for my
Hatz airframe. They are very functional and moving them into different
configurations works great for doing tailfeather, gear, torque tube etc..
The lower shelf is a must as it stabilizes the table and provides great
storage. If I recall they worked out to about $60 apiece and I had a lot of
3/4" plywood left over for other things. That was 2 years ago.


--
John "Ebby" Ebensperger
Hatz Classic s/n 37
Camden, NY

[Blueskies]

"B2431" > wrote in message ...
> >From: "Blueskies"
> >Date: 7/1/2004 6:59 PM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
> >
> >and a fire extinguisher...
> >
> >--
> >Dan D.
> >http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html
> >
>
> Great for throwing at the "friend" who asks "do ya really expect that thing to
> fly?"
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


or for using as a power source - look out Spaceship One!?!?

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..

[Daniel]

Shelly wrote ...

> >GreenPilot wrote:
> >I have a 20'x20' shop
>
> I'm sure you realize that isn't much room
> when it comes time to assemble the project -
> wings and empennage to fuselage? What
> are you going to build?


Folks build airplanes in attics, dining rooms and basements. Either
foldable/removable wings or final assembly at the plane's new home
will do the trick.

Daniel

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 01:17:00 GMT, "Cy Galley" >
wrote:

>I would protect yourself with ground fault interrupters. One GCF can
>protect several outlets.

I think the NEC now requires them. Making the first outlet a GFI can
eliminate the need for a GFI circuit breaker back at the panel and is
one whale of a lot cheaper. I used surface mount thin wall conduit
with a GFI outlet on each circuit. I have 6 circuits just for 110 VAC
outlets and three for 220.

The circuits for the outlets are arranged so if a breaker pops you can
pull the plug and still have power in the outlet beside it.

I saw a guy trip one with his fingers. Said he didn't feel it, but I
think I'll pass on that test myself. <:-))

>If you have any fuel burning heaters, get a CO detector.

I use one powered off the AC instead of straight batter power.
Only one in the shop but three in the house.

I decided to keep the compressor in the shop where it's warm with a
blow down line running outside. I need to plant some barberry bushes
around the outlet so no one will walk up in front of it although it is
pretty well protected...but junk.

Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
shop instead of having to pull a hose around.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Morgans]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote

>
> Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
> compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
> shop instead of having to pull a hose around.
>
> Roger Halstead Not galvanized pipe. It is illegal to use as gas pipe,
cause the plate can flake off, and plug stuff up. It could be bad for your
power tools.
--
Jim in NC


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[Morgans]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:46:48 -0400, "Morgans"
> > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Roger Halstead" > wrote
> :
> :>
> :> Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
> :> compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
> :> shop instead of having to pull a hose around.
> :>
> :> Roger Halstead Not galvanized pipe. It is illegal to use as gas
pipe,
> :cause the plate can flake off, and plug stuff up. It could be bad for
your
> :power tools.
>
> So what's legal? Last year I spent a day running galvi parallel to
> the PVC that was there before, because I was being told it could blow
> out.

OK, legal may not be an issue, cause your air tools will not go boom, but
use some kind of filter to save them the flakes inside them.

Good move, replacing your PVC.
--
Jim in NC


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[John Ammeter]

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:52:52 -0700, Richard Riley
> wrote:

>On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:46:48 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:
>
>:
>:"Roger Halstead" > wrote
>:
>:>
>:> Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
>:> compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
>:> shop instead of having to pull a hose around.
>:>
>:> Roger Halstead Not galvanized pipe. It is illegal to use as gas pipe,
>:cause the plate can flake off, and plug stuff up. It could be bad for your
>:power tools.
>
>So what's legal? Last year I spent a day running galvi parallel to
>the PVC that was there before, because I was being told it could blow
>out.

I've run copper pipe through my shop. We're building a new
home and shop and I plan to run 3/4" copper throughout the
shop. I might even run a line to the house since I'll have
a hobby room there, too.

John

[Ed Wischmeyer]

> I have a 20'x20' shop that I am remodeling and am seeking suggestions
> for an optimum layout for building. Currently it is wired basically,
> and I know I (read electrician) will adding a plurality of shop lights
> and higher voltage outlets. Other than that, what else should I
> consider?

Here are lessons I learned from converting a 2 car garage to a shop
* Have plenty of room for storing completed assemblies, and parts in
process. Learned this the hard way.
* Make sure your work bench is a work bench, and never a storage bench.
* In addition to a wall work bench, you'll want a center of the room work
bench.
* You want to be able to clamp things to the edge of your work bench. I
don't have this on the wall benches.
* There are bunches of things you want accessible at your work bench, or
extremely close. For me, those things are drill bits, dimple dies, chuck
keys, scothbrite, files, brushes (for cleaning work, tools, and the bench),
and also hearing, eye, and dust protection. I recently added a screwdriver
rack (not that I use them on aluminum projects), but the first items are
the most important.
* Use oven liner pans so that your various liquids don't drip onto things
below
* I've got a ton of plastic shelving from the home supply store. Really
helps clean the place up.
* Make the shop visually attractive. I hung some airplane pictures, painted
the walls and floors, and the epoxy floors are very easy to clean. Doing
the floors was a pain and I did a lousy job, so make sure you've got great
instructions on every step.
* I also have one corner of the shop that has back issues of magazines, how
to books, catalogs, all that, along with an old easy chair.
* Have great ventilation, both to keep cool and also to get fumes out. I'm
still working on this part.
* Make sure you have a good supply of scrap wood and scrap aluminum.
* Have the shop vac handy at all times. It's real easy to keep a spotless
shop spotless, but it's hard to keep a pretty clean shop from turning into
a mess.
* Segregate the airplane stuff from the household stuff. Household stuff
can quickly turn your shop into a real mess.
* I really like having plastic, multi-bin containers for holding related
small tools.
* Time spent getting your shop in shape will pay itself back very quickly.

Enjoy!

Ed Wischmeyer

[Craig]

John Ammeter > wrote in message >...


> I've run copper pipe through my shop. We're building a new
> home and shop and I plan to run 3/4" copper throughout the
> shop. I might even run a line to the house since I'll have
> a hobby room there, too.
>

John: Something to consider......If you decide to make a run to the
house, lay in some large plastic conduit and run the air line inside
using bulk 1" airhose with the regulator in the hobby room. At the
same time, run you a Cat 5 or fiber link and a couple of pair phone
cable and a couple of pairs of low voltage lines plus a pull line.
Then you can rig a low voltage compressor control from the hobby room
as well as a powered on/off valve for the air run to the house. You
can also use one of the low voltage pairs to control an external light
if the shop is any distance from the house. The Cat 5 and the phone
lines are a bonus if you decide to put a computer out there and if you
want phone extension in the shop.

The extra bucks upfront won't be too bad compared going back and
adding things in after construction is done.

Craig C.

[John Ammeter]

On 3 Jul 2004 09:59:08 -0700,
(Craig) wrote:

>John Ammeter > wrote in message >...
>
>
>> I've run copper pipe through my shop. We're building a new
>> home and shop and I plan to run 3/4" copper throughout the
>> shop. I might even run a line to the house since I'll have
>> a hobby room there, too.
>>
>
>John: Something to consider......If you decide to make a run to the
>house, lay in some large plastic conduit and run the air line inside
>using bulk 1" airhose with the regulator in the hobby room. At the
>same time, run you a Cat 5 or fiber link and a couple of pair phone
>cable and a couple of pairs of low voltage lines plus a pull line.
>Then you can rig a low voltage compressor control from the hobby room
>as well as a powered on/off valve for the air run to the house. You
>can also use one of the low voltage pairs to control an external light
>if the shop is any distance from the house. The Cat 5 and the phone
>lines are a bonus if you decide to put a computer out there and if you
>want phone extension in the shop.
>
>The extra bucks upfront won't be too bad compared going back and
>adding things in after construction is done.
>
>Craig C.



Those are all excellent ideas. I had three 2" plastic
conduit run through the shop foundation when they built it.
It would be easy now to run three conduits to the house.
The shop and house are going to be about 80 feet apart. I
like the thought of a low-voltage controller for the
aircompressor. I always keep it full of air but have the
"switch" off in case I rupture an air line or fitting...

I'll probably be using my wireless LAN in the new
house/shop. If I put the router in my wifes office it will
be a direct 80 foot shot to the shop. Both have wood
construction with Hardi-plank walls so the signal should
make that distance easily. I'll be running a phone line
plus an intercom, too....

John

[Bruce A. Frank]

I am obviously getting into this subject late in the discussion, but
John has nailed it. Copper pipe is the easiest and least expensive way
to plumb for compressed air. My only caveat is that when I did my first
shop that way I used standard tin/lead solder. My system was not
pressurized all the time so there was a lot of expansion and
contraction. This worked the solar joints just enough that some very
minor leaks developed. I removed and re-did the joints using flux-less
silver solder. Never had a joint leak since. (have a copper solar panel
that I built using this flux-less silver solder. Over 200 joints and
after 6 years, still no leaks.)

John Ammeter wrote:
>
> On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:52:52 -0700, Richard Riley
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:46:48 -0400, "Morgans"
> > wrote:
> >
> >:
> >:"Roger Halstead" > wrote
> >:
> >:>
> >:> Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
> >:> compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
> >:> shop instead of having to pull a hose around.
> >:>
> >:> Roger Halstead Not galvanized pipe. It is illegal to use as gas pipe,
> >:cause the plate can flake off, and plug stuff up. It could be bad for your
> >:power tools.
> >
> >So what's legal? Last year I spent a day running galvi parallel to
> >the PVC that was there before, because I was being told it could blow
> >out.
>
> I've run copper pipe through my shop. We're building a new
> home and shop and I plan to run 3/4" copper throughout the
> shop. I might even run a line to the house since I'll have
> a hobby room there, too.
>
> John

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[Bruce A. Frank]

My thought process in running too far ahead...that's "solder joints" not
"solar joints."

"Bruce A. Frank" wrote:
>
> I am obviously getting into this subject late in the discussion, but
> John has nailed it. Copper pipe is the easiest and least expensive way
> to plumb for compressed air. My only caveat is that when I did my first
> shop that way I used standard tin/lead solder. My system was not
> pressurized all the time so there was a lot of expansion and
> contraction. This worked the solar joints just enough that some very
> minor leaks developed. I removed and re-did the joints using flux-less
> silver solder. Never had a joint leak since. (have a copper solar panel
> that I built using this flux-less silver solder. Over 200 joints and
> after 6 years, still no leaks.)
>
> John Ammeter wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 21:52:52 -0700, Richard Riley
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >On Sat, 3 Jul 2004 00:46:48 -0400, "Morgans"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >:
> > >:"Roger Halstead" > wrote
> > >:
> > >:>
> > >:> Eventually I plan on building a sound proofed enclosure around the
> > >:> compressor. Galvanized pipe for air lines around the inside of the
> > >:> shop instead of having to pull a hose around.
> > >:>
> > >:> Roger Halstead Not galvanized pipe. It is illegal to use as gas pipe,
> > >:cause the plate can flake off, and plug stuff up. It could be bad for your
> > >:power tools.
> > >
> > >So what's legal? Last year I spent a day running galvi parallel to
> > >the PVC that was there before, because I was being told it could blow
> > >out.
> >
> > I've run copper pipe through my shop. We're building a new
> > home and shop and I plan to run 3/4" copper throughout the
> > shop. I might even run a line to the house since I'll have
> > a hobby room there, too.
> >
> > John
>

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[Corrie]

I recently completed the worktop of a modified version. I'm building
a Fly Baby, so I built mine 8' x 30", with the 2x4s set in 2" from the
edges to provide clamping room. I used 5/8" particleboard for the top
- it was ten bucks cheaper than the 23/32 ply, and a darn sight
flatter. Details at
http://www.itasca.net/~corrie/homebuilt_plane_blog.htm#latest . One
note - with two sets of doubled 2x4s running the length of it, it's
heavy as all get-out.

Haven't built the legs yet; it's sitting on an old worktable for now
in the workroom in the basement. Still need to work out the details
of how I'm going to to do the feet. My garage floor isn't level, so I
need to figure a way to rig vertically-adjustable locking casters.

I'll build a second one when I'm ready to lay out the full fuselage.
This one will do for now as a general workbench, and for building a
cockpit mockup (hat tip to Erich on the yahoo flybabylist group!) I
figure I can do a lot of preliminary work in the basement before I
have to move out to the garage.

Corrie

"Ebby" > wrote in message >...
> I built three of the EAA 1000 tables. I made them just a bit wider for my
> Hatz airframe. They are very functional and moving them into different
> configurations works great for doing tailfeather, gear, torque tube etc..
> The lower shelf is a must as it stabilizes the table and provides great
> storage. If I recall they worked out to about $60 apiece and I had a lot of
> 3/4" plywood left over for other things. That was 2 years ago.

[Morgans]

"Corrie" > wrote
>
> Haven't built the legs yet; it's sitting on an old worktable for now
> in the workroom in the basement. Still need to work out the details
> of how I'm going to to do the feet. My garage floor isn't level, so I
> need to figure a way to rig vertically-adjustable locking casters.

Use 4 x 4's and put the casters off to one corner. Drill a pilot hole for a
3/8" lag bolt. Roll the table where you want it, then use a wrench to back
the bolts out, till the weight is sitting on them, instead of the casters.
--
Jim in NC


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[Corrie]

"Morgans" > wrote in message >...
> "Corrie" > wrote
> >
> > Haven't built the legs yet; it's sitting on an old worktable for now
> > in the workroom in the basement. Still need to work out the details
> > of how I'm going to to do the feet. My garage floor isn't level, so I
> > need to figure a way to rig vertically-adjustable locking casters.
>
> Use 4 x 4's and put the casters off to one corner. Drill a pilot hole for a
> 3/8" lag bolt. Roll the table where you want it, then use a wrench to back
> the bolts out, till the weight is sitting on them, instead of the casters.

Yeah, I'd thought of that. I'd like to find a solution that doesn't
require me to crawl around the table with a wrench, popping up and
down to see if it's level yet. Hard on these old knees. <G> I'd
like to use locking casters rather than jacking the table off the
wheels. Still need to think on it some more, but I've got in mind
making a moveable "foot" at the bottom of the leg. The foot would be
adjustable vertically, probably riding on a threaded rod for a
jackscrew. The locking caster would be at the bottom of the foot.

The idea is to be able to put the table away at the end of the day,
leave room in the garage for a ground vehicle.