Soaring and sailing: anyone successfully divide their time betweenthe two, or better pursued as different life phases?

[Paul Villinski]

I know there are plenty of guys who come into soaring after years of sailing. Wings horizontal in one and vertical in the other.... Is there anyone managing to do both to their satisfaction, particularly non-retired types? Or is it madness to try to be a fairly serious, recreational soaring pilot and sailor at the same time? Two things raise this question: the desire for an outdoor activity to share with my small family, rather than leaving them on the ground at the airport every weekend (wife grew up sailing and loves it); and a sudden rekindling of my own boyhood love of sailing, when I dreamed of two things: learning to fly gliders and cruising on sailboats. I've been saying for years that if I weren't soaring, I'd be sailing, and am suddenly wondering if I can pull off both at once. The follow-on question is, naturally, does anyone manage to fly gliders and also own and maintain a, say, thirtyish-year-old, thirtyish foot sailboat, or is this a recipe for frustration? The current fantasy is to spend a chunk of August, when soaring weather in the North East isn't at its best, cruising costal waters between New York and Maine.

[[email protected]]

I was pretty active as a sailor & competition pilot in my 30's. I had a Ventus A and an Olson 30 sailboat. The boat grew to a J/35 & I won a couple seasons in my class. What I learned, after about 10 years, it was easier to show up, do my job & get fed on friends boats than to campaign my own boat. Now if you just want to cruise with the family & post the occasional OLC flight, I see no reason why you can't manage both. If you want to be a top notch sailor & pilot at the same time, that might be more difficult. I still race on other people's big boats but only fly my ASH-26e for fun now. Glider contest aren't races anymore (which is why I race sailboats) but that is another topic that has been beaten to death here. As a side note, rent a two seater & take the family up if they have any interest in soaring!
Barry

[jfitch]

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 7:50:15 PM UTC-7, Paul Villinski wrote:
> I know there are plenty of guys who come into soaring after years of sailing. Wings horizontal in one and vertical in the other.... Is there anyone managing to do both to their satisfaction, particularly non-retired types? Or is it madness to try to be a fairly serious, recreational soaring pilot and sailor at the same time? Two things raise this question: the desire for an outdoor activity to share with my small family, rather than leaving them on the ground at the airport every weekend (wife grew up sailing and loves it); and a sudden rekindling of my own boyhood love of sailing, when I dreamed of two things: learning to fly gliders and cruising on sailboats. I've been saying for years that if I weren't soaring, I'd be sailing, and am suddenly wondering if I can pull off both at once. The follow-on question is, naturally, does anyone manage to fly gliders and also own and maintain a, say, thirtyish-year-old, thirtyish foot sailboat, or is this a recipe for frustration? The current fantasy is to spend a chunk of August, when soaring weather in the North East isn't at its best, cruising costal waters between New York and Maine.

I have owned a glider and a sailboat for nearly thirty years now. If you are flying and sailing on weekends, there isn't that much conflict - just decide which you want to do on a given weekend based on weather, family, mood, etc. Maintaining the sailboat is more work that a pure glider - maybe much more work depending on the boat. Since 2009, we have attempted to spend a lot more time on a lot bigger sailboat. This has led to time conflicts, since sticking to one hemisphere the seasons are coincident. When we had the boat in the Carribean, sailing was winter activity and soaring a summer one, less conflict. However remote boat ownership is very difficult, if you care much about the boat. Also now have a motorglider and the maintenance burden is substantially higher than a pure glider. This year I am flying in July, sailing in August, will come back to fly a bit in September, than back to the boat to get it hauled for the season (now in BC), then back to put the glider away for the season. On the east coast when summer flying might not be very good then you might do the soaring spring and fall, sailing the summer and make it work better. Out in California, sailing can be all year but is best May - Sept, and soaring best June - Sept. so they crash a bit.

[Michael Opitz]

At 02:50 14 July 2017, Paul Villinski wrote:
>I know there are plenty of guys who come into soaring after years
of
>sailin=
>g. Wings horizontal in one and vertical in the other.... Is there
anyone
>ma=
>naging to do both to their satisfaction, particularly non-retired
types?
>Or=
> is it madness to try to be a fairly serious, recreational soaring pilot
>an=
>d sailor at the same time? Two things raise this question: the
desire for
>a=
>n outdoor activity to share with my small family, rather than
leaving them
>=
>on the ground at the airport every weekend (wife grew up sailing
and loves
>=
>it); and a sudden rekindling of my own boyhood love of sailing,
when I
>drea=
>med of two things: learning to fly gliders and cruising on sailboats.
I've
>=
>been saying for years that if I weren't soaring, I'd be sailing, and
am
>sud=
>denly wondering if I can pull off both at once. The follow-on
question is,
>=
>naturally, does anyone manage to fly gliders and also own and
maintain a,
>s=
>ay, thirtyish-year-old, thirtyish foot sailboat, or is this a recipe for
>fr=
>ustration? The current fantasy is to spend a chunk of August, when
soaring
>=
>weather in the North East isn't at its best, cruising coastal waters
>between=
> New York and Maine.
>
Names that come to mind are George Moffat, Bruce Dyson, and Roy
Cundiff, all of whom are not active on RAS. You might try calling or
writing them, though I believe they might be more racing oriented.
The last I knew XX was living on Buzzard's Bay, and Bruce was in
Marlboro, MA.
RO

[Steve Koerner]

Best to think of it as four activities to divide among: soaring, sailing and two units of boat maintenance and repair. Could be tough with a family and a job.

As a retiree and with a boat partner and with kids grown, we're sort of managing. I'm burdened with several other hobbies as well -- it's a hard life. At the moment, the boat is in Mexico where winter is the nicer time to sail and summer threatens hurricanes.

[Blue Whale]

We live in MA 55 minutes from the best sailing in the Northeast (Narragansett Bay) and 30 minutes from Sterling, MA where the Greater Boston Soaring Club is located. What isn't there to love about that? Our 1983 25 foot sailboat takes at most two weekends to prepare for the water each spring and is tied up at a slip always ready for an adventure from May through November. I try to do 20 flights and 20 sails a year.....not enough good weekends in the year for more than that, and work precludes weekday flying. I love to sail and I love to fly and as long as I'm working I can afford both.....you owe it to the kids to make them both sailors and pilots....they'll appreciate it all the more when they grow up!

[Roy B.]

Paul:
I think it depends on your own personality and how fussy you are about the equipment you sail and fly. If you are really obsessive about the condition of the equipment, it drives you crazy to get to the boat and see it covered with seagull dung or get to the glider and know it really needs that weekend hard wax job or the trailer cleaned. If that stuff doesn't bother you, you can do both sports fine. I had 2 partners in my Beneteau F235 and owned a N3 sailplane at the time. I enjoyed both. But when my partners wanted out of the sailboat I gave it up. I just wasn't taking care of the boat the way I wanted to. But if I found a boat partner - I'd do it again.
ROY

[Steve L[_2_]]

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 9:50:15 PM UTC-5, Paul Villinski wrote:
> I know there are plenty of guys who come into soaring after years of sailing. Wings horizontal in one and vertical in the other.... Is there anyone managing to do both to their satisfaction, particularly non-retired types? Or is it madness to try to be a fairly serious, recreational soaring pilot and sailor at the same time? Two things raise this question: the desire for an outdoor activity to share with my small family, rather than leaving them on the ground at the airport every weekend (wife grew up sailing and loves it); and a sudden rekindling of my own boyhood love of sailing, when I dreamed of two things: learning to fly gliders and cruising on sailboats. I've been saying for years that if I weren't soaring, I'd be sailing, and am suddenly wondering if I can pull off both at once. The follow-on question is, naturally, does anyone manage to fly gliders and also own and maintain a, say, thirtyish-year-old, thirtyish foot sailboat, or is this a recipe for frustration? The current fantasy is to spend a chunk of August, when soaring weather in the North East isn't at its best, cruising costal waters between New York and Maine.

Hi Paul, I've been an active sailor since I was a 8 year old kid and then started racing Scows ( M-20, E, MC) for about 20 years and now sail a C Scow a couple times a week just for fun. Sailing is what made soaring such a natural transition. Soaring after all is sky sailing.. I've found that when it's to windy to fly or conditions aren't good for soaring is the time to go sailing. Going for a sail gets you out to enjoy the day when it's not a soaring day, a perfect trade off. More often than not conditions are better for sailing than soaring, so your not missing out wishing you were outside doing something. Sailing allows you to spend more time with the family. The key of course is "IF" they think sailing would be fun thing to do. Advise from an old Atlas pilot-Steve Loudon

[[email protected]]

Many years ago, I had the honor of flying with George Moffat (XX) for a while out of Wurtsboro, NY. George was a former competitive sailboat racer who brought a lot of techniques and philosophy from that realm to soaring, in the process helping many of us to dramatically upgrade our glider prep and sailplane racing. My impression was that when George's first priority became soaring, he focused on the big contest(s) every year, typically the nationals and/or the worlds. Then he and Suzanne would often take off on a big cruising sail in their boat for the rest of the summer, returning in time for the two of them to begin teaching at a private school in NJ. He enjoyed both, and owned a sailboat and a glider. But my sense was that he made one of them his top priority and kept the other one for more relaxed fun.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[[email protected]]

Gents,
Thanks for your input about this "First World luxury problem" of mine ;^} One thing that's become clear as I ponder dividing my time between two "serious" hobbies is that if I get a boat, it needs to be in the best, turn-key condition I can afford, so that the sailing-to-maintenance ratio is as high as possible. The "two units of boat maintenance and repair" worry me a bit, as I am prone to keeping my stuff in reasonably good shape. Also clear that the boat needs to be in a slip or at a mooring a short distance from our home in NYC. And it needs to be well suited and set-up for single-handing, because even if it's a family activity, my young son won't be helping out much for a few more years, etc. It's encouraging to learn that there are a few of you managing to do both, and since my aspirations are simply to have fun I may be able to manage it, too. I knew that George Moffat came to soaring from sailing, but didn't realize that even as he became a world champion pilot he continued to cruise sailboats for pleasure with Suzanne. Roy, thanks for mentioning the F235 -- I've been thinking 30 - 32 feet but that boat is very interesting and food for thought.... Another thing that's becoming clear is that at my age -- late 50's -- there really isn't time to postpone trying the things I want to try...if something doesn't work out, just move on, wiser for the experience. Lastly, my old DG-400 is paid for and tuned-up and it's not going anywhere -- I'm keeping it till I surrender my pilots license due to old age, whether or not I become a sailing fanatic.....

[[email protected]]

George and Suzanne seemed to be able to get cranked up for the big soaring contest of the summer--preceded by fairly intense practice in the spring--and then disappear from the gliderport while they were on the sailboat for a while. IIRC, they kept it in the water at Staten Island.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 10:21:46 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> George and Suzanne seemed to be able to get cranked up for the big soaring contest of the summer--preceded by fairly intense practice in the spring--and then disappear from the gliderport while they were on the sailboat for a while. IIRC, they kept it in the water at Staten Island.
>
> Chip Bearden
> ASW 24 "JB"

We are on a 2 week sailing trip now and I have to say the Q's have been awesome and the streets go for miles. Can't wait to get home to the airport.
But I also must say that my crew is enjoying her time away from the airport and that's important to me. She will hold the umbrella and think back to sailing.
Glen W and now GB

[Dan Marotta]

<snips>

On 8/2/2017 7:23 AM, wrote:
>
> We are on a 2 week sailing trip now and I have to say the Q's have been awesome and the streets go for miles. Can't wait to get home to the airport.
>
It'll be raining for the two weeks after your return... :'(
--
Dan, 5J

[Tony[_5_]]

Francois Pin spends a lot of time soaring in the summer and sailing in the winter

[[email protected]]

I have been doing this successfully for almost a year now. I have lived aboard my sailboat here in Miami for 5 years. I haven't found a conflict yet.. In fact, I enjoy the diversity.

What you may not realize is that unlike a glider, a liveaboard sailboat requires a LOT of maintenance. For example, if you are actively cruising, a 36' Catalina requires about 7 hours per week. A 42' Vagabond requires about 20 hours per week. I can show evidence. I'm not just making up these numbers. Maintenance costs and time go up exponentially with the length of the boat.

I spend way more time fixing the boat than I do sailing it or flying the gliders.

Soon I will retire and will strap the boat down on land during hurricane season and just go glider flying for about 5 months each year.

Ben Ethridge
CFI-II, MEI, Commercial Glider Rating

[Vsoars]

I could not imagine life without either of these two life-enriching activities. Sailing was easier to access, so that came first for me. But the sky is home. In Houston the best sailing season is the weakest soaring time. So it works nicely. iItturns out that many more friends will join me for sailing in my Catalina 32' than in my Duo, but that's fine. Taking guests up for a cross country flight is problematic. On a boat when off-shore won't work, there always is wine

So in this devestating floodi, I dream of both, but sailing is more likely what I will do first. Either way, I still can't believe anyone should choose. It would be like choosing between my two children. I guess it's problem some guys have. I will always make both work.
Val

[[email protected]]

Val- best wishes for you and all the other victims of Harvey, but making sailing at this time "what you will do first" is fairly obvious. Gotta get to the airport somehow, right?