109B import from Germany - FAA hassle?

[Klaus Oestreich]

Hi all,
I have fund a nice 109B in Germany. Just wondering about the FAA hassle to get it registered.......
Also it has a Grob engine.......talk with Grob in Germany about there engine. Looks like not many parts left.
The engine has about 180hrs left. What are you guys thinking ?
Thanks
Klaus

[Dan Marotta]

I had no difficulty importing my Stemme from Mexico into the USA. Since
the Stemme has an LBA or EASA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS), I
simply presented that to an FAA Designated Airworthiness Representative
(DAR). He checked the aircraft against the TCDS and issued a US
Standard Airworthiness Certificate.

Assuming the Grob has a TCDS, there should be no problems with the FAA
also assuming the aircraft still conforms to the TCDS. I would be
concerned, however, with an orphaned engine with only 180 hours left.
What do you do when the engine is no longer airworthy?

On 7/17/2017 1:59 PM, Klaus Oestreich wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have fund a nice 109B in Germany. Just wondering about the FAA hassle to get it registered.......
> Also it has a Grob engine.......talk with Grob in Germany about there engine. Looks like not many parts left.
> The engine has about 180hrs left. What are you guys thinking ?
> Thanks
> Klaus

--
Dan, 5J

[Michael Opitz]

At 23:23 17 July 2017, Dan Marotta wrote:
>I had no difficulty importing my Stemme from Mexico into the USA.
Since
>the Stemme has an LBA or EASA Type Certificate Data Sheet
(TCDS), I
>simply presented that to an FAA Designated Airworthiness
Representative
>(DAR). He checked the aircraft against the TCDS and issued a US
>Standard Airworthiness Certificate.
>
>Assuming the Grob has a TCDS, there should be no problems with
the FAA
>also assuming the aircraft still conforms to the TCDS. I would be
>concerned, however, with an orphaned engine with only 180 hours
left.
>What do you do when the engine is no longer airworthy?
>
>On 7/17/2017 1:59 PM, Klaus Oestreich wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have fund a nice 109B in Germany. Just wondering about the
FAA hassle
>to get it registered.......
>> Also it has a Grob engine.......talk with Grob in Germany about
there
>engine. Looks like not many parts left.
>> The engine has about 180hrs left. What are you guys thinking ?
>> Thanks
>> Klaus
>
>--
>Dan, 5J
>

I would assume that getting a German Export C of A would cost a
LOT less than hiring a DAR in the USA. Also, the Export C of A
inspection over there could possibly unearth big issues (before the
sale is final and the aircraft is shipped), as opposed to a DAR finding
them while inspecting it here. The only problem is that the German
Export C of A process/De-registration will take 3+ months to
complete over there. If you have a German Export C of A and De-
registration (Make sure the make, model, serial number on the
documents match EXACTLY with your FAA registration application.),
and all documents are in order, then the FAA C of A inspection
becomes a relatively minor formality.

As far as the engine goes (if it were me), I'd be looking for a
replacement engine that has already been overhauled or at least
another complete "parts engine" for spares. I am no expert in that
field though, and will defer to others with more knowledge.

We had a G109B in our club as a 5 year lease-back during the
Reagan tax credit era. I liked it a lot, but found it incredible that an
aircraft like this (which was a lot more complicated than a C-150)
would only require a glider license to fly it...

RO

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 3:59:22 PM UTC-4, Klaus Oestreich wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have fund a nice 109B in Germany.
> Just wondering about the FAA hassle to get it registered.......
> Also it has a Grob engine.......talk with Grob in Germany about there engine.
> Looks like not many parts left.
> The engine has about 180hrs left. What are you guys thinking ?
> Thanks
> Klaus

IIRC, Grob did a 912 update for the 109, but there were *issues*
regarding completing the certification. Iff these *issues* were resolved,
it *might* be possible to have the update done in Germany (with paperwork,
ie EASA certs), in which case this would be a much more desirable (but
certainly more expensive) machine...

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

[Eric Munk]

Export CofA in Germany is a days work. Certificate of deregistration can be

arranged from the LBA in a week. Been there, done that. Have the current
owner do it as part of the deal. Saves hassle.

[Paul Birkett]

At 05:48 18 July 2017, Eric Munk wrote:
>Export CofA in Germany is a days work. Certificate of deregistration can
b
>
>arranged from the LBA in a week. Been there, done that. Have the current
>owner do it as part of the deal. Saves hassle.
>
Hello, I'm a EASA-FAA engineer & have worked on the G109B-Grob 2500
engine for the last two years.
If you want to replace the engine with a EASA/FAA compliant unit, the only

company presently advertising an overhauled engine from the factory is
Soaring Oxford in the U.K. Please find link below.

http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/index.php?page=item&id=16512

The company normally supplies spares to the RAF cadets flying schools,
which no longer require the engines having "Scrapped" the majority of their

fleet, hence an abundance of spares no longer required held by Soaring
Oxford.
The company is expensive, having dealt primarily with the RAF cadets & not

having to "trim" their profit margins.
I'm sure a discount is available if you play "Hard Ball".
Good luck.
Best regards
Paul

[Paul Birkett]

At 05:48 18 July 2017, Eric Munk wrote:
>Export CofA in Germany is a days work. Certificate of deregistration can
b
>
>arranged from the LBA in a week. Been there, done that. Have the current
>owner do it as part of the deal. Saves hassle.
>
Hello, I'm a EASA-FAA engineer & have worked on the G109B-Grob 2500
engine for the last two years.
If you want to replace the engine with a EASA/FAA compliant unit, the only

company presently advertising an overhauled engine from the factory is
Soaring Oxford in the U.K. Please find link below.

http://www.segelflug.de/osclass/index.php?page=item&id=16512

The company normally supplies spares to the RAF cadets flying schools,
which no longer require the engines having "Scrapped" the majority of their

fleet, hence an abundance of spares no longer required held by Soaring
Oxford.
The company is expensive, having dealt primarily with the RAF cadets & not

having to "trim" their profit margins.
I'm sure a discount is available if you play "Hard Ball".
Good luck.
Best regards
Paul

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 3:59:22 PM UTC-4, Klaus Oestreich wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have fund a nice 109B in Germany. Just wondering about the FAA hassle to get it registered.......
> Also it has a Grob engine.......talk with Grob in Germany about there engine. Looks like not many parts left.
> The engine has about 180hrs left. What are you guys thinking ?
> Thanks
> Klaus
If those engines are VW derivatives wonder if it would be possible to register it as an experimental when needed use one of the current VW based experimental aircraft engines?

[Tony[_5_]]

I think Paul Weeden just posted something on Facebook about having a grob 109 engine. Not sure which version

[Dan Marotta]

On 7/17/2017 6:36 PM, Michael Opitz wrote:
> We had a G109B in our club as a 5 year lease-back during the
> Reagan tax credit era. I liked it a lot, but found it incredible that an
> aircraft like this (which was a lot more complicated than a C-150)
> would only require a glider license to fly it...
I hear ya, Brother! I don't think I'd trust any C-150 or C-140 (tail
dragger) pilot to fly a Stemme with simply a glider license. Still, as I
get older and don't want to fly power planes any more, it's good that I
don't need a physical to fly the Stemme. I'll know when it's time to
quit or my wife will let me know...
--
Dan, 5J

[Bruce Hoult]

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 6:56:56 PM UTC+3, Dan Marotta wrote:
> On 7/17/2017 6:36 PM, Michael Opitz wrote:
> > We had a G109B in our club as a 5 year lease-back during the
> > Reagan tax credit era. I liked it a lot, but found it incredible that an
> > aircraft like this (which was a lot more complicated than a C-150)
> > would only require a glider license to fly it...
> I hear ya, Brother! I don't think I'd trust any C-150 or C-140 (tail
> dragger) pilot to fly a Stemme with simply a glider license. Still, as I
> get older and don't want to fly power planes any more, it's good that I
> don't need a physical to fly the Stemme. I'll know when it's time to
> quit or my wife will let me know...

I'm not sure what's complex about the 109. Certainly for a C-150 pilot it's a tail dragger with long wings, much like any other glider. For a glider pilot it's not a lot different to a 103 with side by side seating and an engine.

The need to switch between fine and coarse pitch, and the Mickey Mouse way it's done (pull something like a tow release, and hope and pray it changes to the mode you want, based on engine RPM) is a bit strange for both C-150 and glider pilots. Getting it wrong would be bad, especially on takeoff. The takeoff performance is anaemic enough at the best of times.

For some reason, I found the 109 more claustrophobic than other aircraft I've been in, and especially the way you have to twist around above and behind your head to operate the canopy latch.

[Klaus Oestreich]

Thanks! Good info
Klaus