ASW-20 flaps setting VS speed

[AttentionLEcureuil]

Hi,
I was reading the Johnson's ASW-20 flight evaluation. He says the -6
degrees flap setting is useless and that 0 degree is better up to
76kts, where the -9 degrees should then be selected.
Johnson also says something about the possible -4 degrees flaps
setting that might be more useful than the -6.

- Do you guys feel that the -6 setting is useless?
- Have you drilled a new -4 flap position to replace the -6 and if so,
does it seem to work great?

Thx

[Andreas Maurer]

On 8 Mar 2004 13:31:48 -0800,
(AttentionLEcureuil) wrote:

>Hi,
>I was reading the Johnson's ASW-20 flight evaluation. He says the -6
>degrees flap setting is useless and that 0 degree is better up to
>76kts, where the -9 degrees should then be selected.
>Johnson also says something about the possible -4 degrees flaps
>setting that might be more useful than the -6.
>
>- Do you guys feel that the -6 setting is useless?
>- Have you drilled a new -4 flap position to replace the -6 and if so,
>does it seem to work great?

Using setting 2 (-6) between 57 and 70 knots (without water) and
between 62 and 75 kts (maximum wing loading) definitely brought a
noticeable advantage here.

I never felt the necessity to use any other than the standard settings
- but in the 20 it really make a noticeable difference if you adjust
the flaps according to your feeling, moving the lever smoothly
according to current speed and g-load. The flaps of the 20 tend to
move themselves into the perfect position by themselves - one thing
that I really loved about this glider.



Bye
Andreas

[Martin Gregorie]

On 8 Mar 2004 13:31:48 -0800,
(AttentionLEcureuil) wrote:

>Hi,
>I was reading the Johnson's ASW-20 flight evaluation. He says the -6
>degrees flap setting is useless and that 0 degree is better up to
>76kts, where the -9 degrees should then be selected.
>Johnson also says something about the possible -4 degrees flaps
>setting that might be more useful than the -6.
>
Leaping in with both feet on the basis of one flight....

>- Do you guys feel that the -6 setting is useless?
>
Were you were briefed the same as I was - after release trim to 57 kts
in flap position 3 and then you can pretty much leave the trim alone
until its time to land? If you use these guidelines then position 2 is
useful as it stands because just moving the flap lever steps you from
40 kts in 4, thru 57, 68 or so to around 80 in position 1 with no
stick pressure needed and no retrimming. Those are nicely spaced
points.

>- Have you drilled a new -4 flap position to replace the -6 and if so,
>does it seem to work great?
>
I've not tried holding other flap positions so don't know what speed
you'd get from -4 degrees.

Martin.

PS: To Andreas Maurer, if you're listening: other new ASW-20 drivers
might appreciate your flying notes as much as I did if you'd re-post
them. I inherited a paper copy with my glider.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Mark Grubb]

As stated by Andreas, the force on the flap handle will tell you what
setting is appropriate for any given condition of airspeed and load
factor.

I have noticed that an intermediate setting between 1 (-9 deg) and 2
(-6 degrees) is more often preferred by my ship at intermediate
speeds than position #2. This phenomena has been observed by several
other high time 20 pilots as well.

[Andreas Maurer]

On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 00:05:38 +0000, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:

>PS: To Andreas Maurer, if you're listening: other new ASW-20 drivers
>might appreciate your flying notes as much as I did if you'd re-post
>them. I inherited a paper copy with my glider.

I'd like to, but unfortunately I don't have a clue which of my
postings was interesting enough to be re-posted. I did a quick search
my database of posted articles and found only the ones that I added
below.

Was there an article that went more into detail? If so, please give me
a few keywords to make finding it easier for me.



--- snip ---

On Fri, 07 Feb 1997 23:34:40 +0000, wrote:


>Questions:
>Are they good climbers?
Yes. Very good.
As long as your CG is not too far forward. As the 20 has got no tail
water tank, it becomes quite heavy in the nose if you carry lots of
water and weigh more than 85 kg.

>Are they good runners?
Yes, quite good. Of course they have the handicap to be able to carry
only 110 kg of water as long as you do not fly an ASW-20B. An LS-6
will run better over 180 km/h, under 180 km/h both gliders are exactly
equal, at least, if you have a good 20 (as is ours).
But beware: There are good 20's and bad 20's. It is not sure that a
good finish always brings good performances! The performance
dispersion is vast for the 20.

>How do they compare with other ships of their vintage?
Very good. A good 20 is even comparable with an LS-6 as long as both
aircraft do not carry too much water.
All in all there are not many differences between a 20 (no mattter
whether the original one, L or B/C), Ventus and LS-6.
I've always found that the 20 is extremely resistent against pollution
on the wing, e.g. rain. Its performance will not drop as drastically
as an LS-3 for example if it's wet.

>Would they make a good first 15M ship?
Yes. Althoug not easy to aerotow, it flies very good.
The first twenty meters during an aerotow are a little bit difficult
due to very poor aileron effecivness.
And, not to forget the manual connections of the ailerons and the
flaps. They demand a good check prior to flight.

>And most importantly, are they fun to fly?
Extremely. The flexing wing is an experience of his own. I absolutely
adore the 20.
Not to forget the extremely effective flaps that enable a landing on
nearly any field. The 20 ist the glider that is the safest one to
land. On the other hand the extreme 55 degreee flap setting needs some
experience. But of you have already made ten landings with it, it
becomes some kind of insurance.
The wheel brake effectivness is poor on the 20 and the 20L. The 20B
has got a hydraulic brake that works very well.
>
>I realize the answeres may vary with each model of '20, but any and all
>info and opinions would
>be greatly appreciated.
Get the 20. To me this is the glider that I like most /and I know
nearly all of them). Very comfortable, easy to fly, and with lots of
safety margins for the landing.

And to add a few word about the stretched version:
Although some prefer to fly the 20L with 16,60 meters, I do not like
them. The 20 clims very well with 16,60m, but over 110 km/h the 15m
version runs better. And you usually fly faster than 110 with a
flapped ship. And the 20L cannot carry water with 16,60m (the 20BL
can, but is rare and more expensive). According to my experience a 20
without water is too light. With a takeoff weight of about 420 kg
(about 60 litres of water) the 20 will climb as good as without water
and glide much better...

Andreas



--- snip ---

On Mon, 13 Nov 2000 11:13:36 GMT, wrote:

>-11, -6, 0 +9, +40 and +55
>
>If you want to make a Cirrus pilot happy, let him outclimb your '20!

My experiences are based upon the 20L, always flown with 15m and
usually filled with water and a ramp wight between 410 to 440 kg.

I usually climbed with flaps in neutral position (0, setting 3), and
never climbed worse than anyone else - usually I did better. Only
with heavy weights (over 430 kg) it was sometimes necessary to pull a
little bit more flaps (between 3 and 4) to keep the AOA in the green
range when I steepen the turn. I am quite heavy (about 200 lbs).

The 20 feels definitely more lifely with setting 3. Setting 4 always
felt extremely AOA sinsitive for me - if you go to 4 from 3 over 85
kph in straight flight, you even feel the braking effect.

Setting 4 worked only when the core was extremely narrow and the 20
was heavy.


--- snip ---




Bye
Andreas