glue to rebond rubber tailskid to LS6

[kirk.stant]

The black rubber tailskid (the one with the embedded rollerblade wheel) on my LS6 has come loose - after the last landing when I noticed grass stuck between the boom and the skid, I was able to simply pull off the skid - undamaged as far as I can tell.

Looking for suggestions on what bonding agent (and process, if needed, other than common sense cleaning and roughening) to use to reattach it.

Since it has to be able to break away in a ground loop, I assume there is an optimum (or even required) bonding strength?

I don't remember seeing this covered in my LS6 maintenance manual, but need to check it again; meanwhile, anyone have recent experience rebonding a tail skid?

Suggestions?

Kirk
66

[Mike C]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 10:57:19 AM UTC-6, kirk.stant wrote:
> The black rubber tailskid (the one with the embedded rollerblade wheel) on my LS6 has come loose - after the last landing when I noticed grass stuck between the boom and the skid, I was able to simply pull off the skid - undamaged as far as I can tell.
>
> Looking for suggestions on what bonding agent (and process, if needed, other than common sense cleaning and roughening) to use to reattach it.
>
> Since it has to be able to break away in a ground loop, I assume there is an optimum (or even required) bonding strength?
>
> I don't remember seeing this covered in my LS6 maintenance manual, but need to check it again; meanwhile, anyone have recent experience rebonding a tail skid?
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

When the skid/tail wheel came off of my Mini, I secured it again with 3M rubber cement using gorilla tape to hold it in place while it cured.

Still attached after several years.

Mike

[Scott Williams]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 11:57:19 AM UTC-5,
Two years ago I replaced my cirrus rubber & steel skid with a rubber & wheel, I used 3m contact cement. Once while moving the glider in the hangar (concrete surface) I side loaded the tail wheel and the rubber & wheel debonded from the tail, I reattached it with contact cement and have 15 or so flights landing on hard surface with no issues.

Good Luck,
Scott

[JS[_5_]]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 9:57:19 AM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
> The black rubber tailskid (the one with the embedded rollerblade wheel) on my LS6 has come loose - after the last landing when I noticed grass stuck between the boom and the skid, I was able to simply pull off the skid - undamaged as far as I can tell.
>
> Looking for suggestions on what bonding agent (and process, if needed, other than common sense cleaning and roughening) to use to reattach it.
>
> Since it has to be able to break away in a ground loop, I assume there is an optimum (or even required) bonding strength?
>
> I don't remember seeing this covered in my LS6 maintenance manual, but need to check it again; meanwhile, anyone have recent experience rebonding a tail skid?
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Kirk
> 66

I know it's time to fly, but...
Consider cutting a hole in the bottom of the tail (discovering that there is already a wheel well in the LS6) and installing a tail wheel.
Using either plastic, alloy or brass wheel, you can adjust C/G.
The factory wheel well is built for a 210x65, but we put a 200x50 in #6046, and faired it in nicely.
Jim

[Roy B.]

I use 3M brand double sided foam sticky tape for tail skids and wing tip skids. Cover the entire surface, trim with a sharp knife then stick together. Works fine - holds when it should and breaks away when it should.
ROY

[Dan Marotta]

For years I used plain old contact cement to bond the tail skid/roller
blade to my LS-6a. Worked like a champ! Double sided foam tape looks
like it might work, but I'd be concerned that it might drop off. I've
not had good luck with double sided foam tape in other applications.

On 7/24/2017 11:37 AM, Roy B. wrote:
> I use 3M brand double sided foam sticky tape for tail skids and wing tip skids. Cover the entire surface, trim with a sharp knife then stick together. Works fine - holds when it should and breaks away when it should.
> ROY

--
Dan, 5J

[Papa3[_2_]]

Specifically - I highly recommend 3M VHB tape. Here's the product description:

4941 Family
This family utilizes multi-purpose acrylic adhesive on both sides of
a conformable adhesive foam core. The adhesive provides excellent
adhesion to a broad range of high and medium surface energy
substrates including metals, glass, and a wide variety of plastics, as
well as plasticized vinyl. The conformable adhesive foam core provides
good contact, even with mismatched substrates. The combination of
foam strength, conformability, and adhesion makes this family one of
the most capable all-around 3M™ VHB™ tapes

The secret is that the foam allows it to bridge the usual discontinuities in the urethane molded tailskid and the fiberglass tail boom. It's plenty strong but will fail under a high enough side load. Much easier to work with than contact cement, except that you have to get the alignment 100% correct on the first pass. It's worth spending some time supporting the fuselage on it's side and working with a helper to guide the alignment. One you stick it - it's stuck.

P3

[Tango Eight]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 12:57:19 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

> Suggestions?

"Marine Goop", "Automotive Goop" or similar, available at Homerville, er Home Depot.


-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Tony[_5_]]

I've had good luck with Weldwood Contact Cement on the Std. Cirrus...

[[email protected]]

The 3M heavy duty double sided tape works great. Not the white stuff, the black stuff. It's great for tail skids, wing tip skids, and even that 5 dollar Home Depot wing tip wheel I use to aid an unassisted take off from a paved strip.

[Craig Funston]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 3:02:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> The 3M heavy duty double sided tape works great. Not the white stuff, the black stuff. It's great for tail skids, wing tip skids, and even that 5 dollar Home Depot wing tip wheel I use to aid an unassisted take off from a paved strip.

Pliobond industrial contact cement.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/pliobond.php

[[email protected]]

Kirk, give Paul Gaines a call at composite solutions. He gave me some 3M product that cured with humidity, stayed flexible, sticks to anything, fills in gaps and is some other the strongest stuff Ive used.

[[email protected]]

I forgot to metion that it is white too. Filled in nicely the gap between skid and tail.

[Craig Funston]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 3:42:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Kirk, give Paul Gaines a call at composite solutions. He gave me some 3M product that cured with humidity, stayed flexible, sticks to anything, fills in gaps and is some other the strongest stuff Ive used.

That would be 3M 5200 marine adhesive. It does stick to anything aggressively and is strong & flexible. Buy only what you need because it cures in the tube after opening.

Craig 7Q

[[email protected]]

He had two different styles one was a quick cure, hours, the other took days, I used the days brand and it was so dry here in AZ that after two days it still was moving. At least until I covered it with wet cloths and wet the down every hour or so then it cured hard overnight😂

[kirk.stant]

Wow - thanks for all the replies, guys; now I have something to work with.

I think CH's solution (3M 5200 marine adhesive) sounds the best to me, and in my southern IL climate it should have no trouble curing.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Oh and Cliff, when do you expect to get that ASW-27? Too bad you couldn't have gotten Peter Van Camps 27B - that was a special one!

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

Should arrive tomorrow, won't get to fly it till September though, Leaving for motorhome trip Thursday, maybe a night in SL passing thru 😋😂

[POPS]

3M Marine Adhesive Sealant 5200 Fast Cure white or black, it's thicker than tooth paste.
Clean gelcoat, sand gelcoat with anything, 120 is good. Tape it off. Don't make a mess. 5200 likes to get everywhere. Let is cure for a full 24 hours.
Permanent, not coming off, done. Forget all that other crazy crap.
You rubber skid will still fold over during a ground loop thus preventing your skid from spiking and sending the tail assembly cartwheeling off into Mrs. Cravits rose bushes... I have a 45 year history with this stuff.


The black rubber tailskid (the one with the embedded rollerblade wheel) on my LS6 has come loose - after the last landing when I noticed grass stuck between the boom and the skid, I was able to simply pull off the skid - undamaged as far as I can tell.

Looking for suggestions on what bonding agent (and process, if needed, other than common sense cleaning and roughening) to use to reattach it.

Since it has to be able to break away in a ground loop, I assume there is an optimum (or even required) bonding strength?

I don't remember seeing this covered in my LS6 maintenance manual, but need to check it again; meanwhile, anyone have recent experience rebonding a tail skid?

Suggestions?

Kirk
66

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 2:43:24 AM UTC-4, POPS wrote:

> Permanent, not coming off, done.

And so how does it go when you need to remove the skid, for some reason?


best,
Evan

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:49:44 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 2:43:24 AM UTC-4, POPS wrote:
>
> > Permanent, not coming off, done.
>
> And so how does it go when you need to remove the skid, for some reason?
>
>
> best,
> Evan

I've never used 5200 but know boatbuilders don't like it for many applications because it is unpleasant to undo for repairs.

[Brian[_1_]]

I have used Pliobond, comes off with acetone.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/pliobond.php

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 10:22:43 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> Consider cutting a hole in the bottom of the tail (discovering that there is already a wheel well in the LS6) and installing a tail wheel...

If your LS6 is Experimental, I have a fender and external fairing that fits if it turns out that it isn't already in there.

--Bob K.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 9:40:51 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Monday, July 24, 2017 at 10:22:43 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> > Consider cutting a hole in the bottom of the tail (discovering that there is already a wheel well in the LS6) and installing a tail wheel...
>
> If your LS6 is Experimental, I have a fender and external fairing that fits if it turns out that it isn't already in there.
>
> --Bob K.

The inner fender is part of LS-6 aft construction, even when skid is installed, based on the one I worked on. It would require the factory drawing to duplicate the mounting of the axle bolt.
FWIW
UH

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 7:24:57 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 6:49:44 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 2:43:24 AM UTC-4, POPS wrote:
> >
> > > Permanent, not coming off, done.
> >
> > And so how does it go when you need to remove the skid, for some reason?
> >
> >
> > best,
> > Evan
>
> I've never used 5200 but know boatbuilders don't like it for many applications because it is unpleasant to undo for repairs.

The glue on skid idea was always kinda dumb. But it seems *really* dumb to glue the thing on in some fashion that's going to require a sawzall and disk grinder to remove.

Contact cement works. The thicker, gap filling solvent based adhesives (the "goo" and "goop" products) work better, are more forgiving prep wise. These can be worried loose when needed, without destroying the skid.

It's not necessary to overthink this.

best,
Evan

[Sean Fidler]

https://youtu.be/soqfhLSEe_0

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 8:16:34 AM UTC-7, Tango Eight wrote:
>...going to require a sawzall and disk grinder to remove...

Mmmmm... Sawzall...

[POPS]

Like a tuna .... fillet it off with a NEW razor blade, the ones used in utility knifes. Easy. Liquid vise grips, vise grips and epoxy, nothing more needed in this world.


On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 2:43:24 AM UTC-4, POPS wrote:

Permanent, not coming off, done.

And so how does it go when you need to remove the skid, for some reason?


best,
Evan