Winch Cable Splicing (w/o ferrules)

[Gary Emerson]

In reading Derek's book, he makes mention that a cable can be
effectively repaired with out using aluminum or copper ferrules, but
apparently by carefully opening up the 7x7 stranded construction and
then interweaving the strands back together for a seamless repair.
Obviously this has advantages of a smooth running cable, but it may be
tricky and time consuming to do right.

So, with that said, does anyone have a document that they could refer me
to that describes this operation in enough detail to be able to give it
a try?

Thanks,

Gary

[Stefan]

Basic seamanship. Every sail boat shop should have books about splicing
and knotting and rope work in general.

Stefan

[Marc]

You won't find many A&P mechanics that are current on it, but cable splicing
is covered in the FAA's AC 43.13 publication. The section is aimed at
repair of flying/bracing wires and control cables but the technique is the
same with heavier material.

A larger chandlery (sailboat parts shop) is likely your best bet to find
someone with actual experience.

I'm pleased to see the support for winch launching. Even in the wide-open
USA midwest they make sense (except maybe for wave entries).

Cheers,
Marc

[Dave Martin]

At 22:42 18 March 2004, Gary Emerson wrote:
>In reading Derek's book, he makes mention that a cable
>can be
>effectively repaired with out using aluminum or copper
>ferrules, but
>apparently by carefully opening up the 7x7 stranded
>construction and
>then interweaving the strands back together for a seamless
>repair.
>Obviously this has advantages of a smooth running cable,
>but it may be
>tricky and time consuming to do right.
>
>So, with that said, does anyone have a document that
>they could refer me
>to that describes this operation in enough detail to
>be able to give it
>a try?
>
>Thanks,


Gary

Proper interwoven splices in 7 strand cable are difficult
and time consuming.

The following is a simple simple procedure, books not
required.
I was taught this many years ago by an experience winch
driver.

Takes about three minutes after a bit or practice.

Steps are as follows, the basic principle is like tying
a reef knot.

1. Make neat cuts to the ends to be joined.
2. Open one cable around the centre core for about
10inches in two halves. Leaving the centre core on
its own (Longer until you get used to it, less as you
get more experience)
3. Cut out the centre core and re wind the cable for
about half an inch.
4. The taking the two ends on one cable tie a single
'knot' in them. If done correctly the cable will lie
together following the natural twist in the cable.

Now keep wrapping each end round the other end. If
you got it right, you should finish with the cut ends
twisting naturally round each other until they reach
the main cable.

You should now have a cable with a neat loop at the
end.

If this is right you have cracked the job.

Next go to step 2 with the other cable.

Before going any further, feed this cable through the
loop you created in the first cable and then

6 Wrap the two ends round the other cable and Tie a
knot as above .

You should finish with two cables each with a loop
in the end
each loop being around the other cable.

7. Pull tight.

If you look at the finished knot it is similar to a
reef knot.

Some clubs wrap the knot in 'gaffer' tape which then
forms a protective coat as it beds in the tape and
glue form part of the knot and reduce frayed ends.

I have done many splices like this and they eventually
pull so tight they are difficult to detect. They are
also smoother on the pay on gear than new ferrules.


It is very good on older worn rope when ferrules do
not compress enough to grip and the club have forgot
to order new cables.

Hope this makes sense. It is a very simple procecure
try it with some spare cable.

Dave

[Bill Daniels]

"Dave Martin" > wrote in message
...
> At 22:42 18 March 2004, Gary Emerson wrote:
> >In reading Derek's book, he makes mention that a cable
> >can be
> >effectively repaired with out using aluminum or copper
> >ferrules, but
> >apparently by carefully opening up the 7x7 stranded
> >construction and
> >then interweaving the strands back together for a seamless
> >repair.
> >Obviously this has advantages of a smooth running cable,
> >but it may be
> >tricky and time consuming to do right.
> >
> >So, with that said, does anyone have a document that
> >they could refer me
> >to that describes this operation in enough detail to
> >be able to give it
> >a try?
> >
> >Thanks,
>
>
> Gary
>
> Proper interwoven splices in 7 strand cable are difficult
> and time consuming.
>
> The following is a simple simple procedure, books not
> required.
> I was taught this many years ago by an experience winch
> driver.
>
> Takes about three minutes after a bit or practice.
>
> Steps are as follows, the basic principle is like tying
> a reef knot.
>
> 1. Make neat cuts to the ends to be joined.
> 2. Open one cable around the centre core for about
> 10inches in two halves. Leaving the centre core on
> its own (Longer until you get used to it, less as you
> get more experience)
> 3. Cut out the centre core and re wind the cable for
> about half an inch.
> 4. The taking the two ends on one cable tie a single
> 'knot' in them. If done correctly the cable will lie
> together following the natural twist in the cable.
>
> Now keep wrapping each end round the other end. If
> you got it right, you should finish with the cut ends
> twisting naturally round each other until they reach
> the main cable.
>
> You should now have a cable with a neat loop at the
> end.
>
> If this is right you have cracked the job.
>
> Next go to step 2 with the other cable.
>
> Before going any further, feed this cable through the
> loop you created in the first cable and then
>
> 6 Wrap the two ends round the other cable and Tie a
> knot as above .
>
> You should finish with two cables each with a loop
> in the end
> each loop being around the other cable.
>
> 7. Pull tight.
>
> If you look at the finished knot it is similar to a
> reef knot.
>
> Some clubs wrap the knot in 'gaffer' tape which then
> forms a protective coat as it beds in the tape and
> glue form part of the knot and reduce frayed ends.
>
> I have done many splices like this and they eventually
> pull so tight they are difficult to detect. They are
> also smoother on the pay on gear than new ferrules.
>
>
> It is very good on older worn rope when ferrules do
> not compress enough to grip and the club have forgot
> to order new cables.
>
> Hope this makes sense. It is a very simple procecure
> try it with some spare cable.
>
> Dave
>

Of course, you could just dump the old steel cable and use 3 - 4 mm Spectra
hollow 12 strand braid. To make a splice you just to tuck each end into the
other piece for about 18 inches using a fid. It takes less than a minute to
make an invisible splice. The rope diameter barely increases at the splice.

No bloody fingers either.

Bill Daniels

[Charles Yeates]

Dave

Copper ferrules have worked easily and well for us at Bluenose for over
twenty-two years -- Why take the time and risk of interweaving strands?

Dave Martin wrote:
> At 22:42 18 March 2004, Gary Emerson wrote:
>
>>In reading Derek's book, he makes mention that a cable
>>can be
>>effectively repaired with out using aluminum or copper
>>ferrules, but
>>apparently by carefully opening up the 7x7 stranded
>>construction and
>>then interweaving the strands back together for a seamless
>>repair.
>>Obviously this has advantages of a smooth running cable,
>>but it may be
>>tricky and time consuming to do right.
>>
>>So, with that said, does anyone have a document that
>>they could refer me
>>to that describes this operation in enough detail to
>>be able to give it
>>a try?
>>
>>Thanks,
>
>
>
> Gary
>
> Proper interwoven splices in 7 strand cable are difficult
> and time consuming.
>
> The following is a simple simple procedure, books not
> required.
> I was taught this many years ago by an experience winch
> driver.
>
> Takes about three minutes after a bit or practice.
>
> Steps are as follows, the basic principle is like tying
> a reef knot.
>
> 1. Make neat cuts to the ends to be joined.
> 2. Open one cable around the centre core for about
> 10inches in two halves. Leaving the centre core on
> its own (Longer until you get used to it, less as you
> get more experience)
> 3. Cut out the centre core and re wind the cable for
> about half an inch.
> 4. The taking the two ends on one cable tie a single
> 'knot' in them. If done correctly the cable will lie
> together following the natural twist in the cable.
>
> Now keep wrapping each end round the other end. If
> you got it right, you should finish with the cut ends
> twisting naturally round each other until they reach
> the main cable.
>
> You should now have a cable with a neat loop at the
> end.
>
> If this is right you have cracked the job.
>
> Next go to step 2 with the other cable.
>
> Before going any further, feed this cable through the
> loop you created in the first cable and then
>
> 6 Wrap the two ends round the other cable and Tie a
> knot as above .
>
> You should finish with two cables each with a loop
> in the end
> each loop being around the other cable.
>
> 7. Pull tight.
>
> If you look at the finished knot it is similar to a
> reef knot.
>
> Some clubs wrap the knot in 'gaffer' tape which then
> forms a protective coat as it beds in the tape and
> glue form part of the knot and reduce frayed ends.
>
> I have done many splices like this and they eventually
> pull so tight they are difficult to detect. They are
> also smoother on the pay on gear than new ferrules.
>
>
> It is very good on older worn rope when ferrules do
> not compress enough to grip and the club have forgot
> to order new cables.
>
> Hope this makes sense. It is a very simple procecure
> try it with some spare cable.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

The NCSA, now CSA, used to have 'wave' winch camps at Walden, CO annually.
IIRC, the pilot in this image got his diamond from a winch launch.
http://www.soarcsa.org/images/pikwinch.jpg (photo credit to Rich Carr)
Steamboats in the distance.

"Marc" <mwilliams SPAM@us family.netSPAM Remove SPAM and spaces.> wrote in
message ...
> You won't find many A&P mechanics that are current on it, but cable
splicing
> is covered in the FAA's AC 43.13 publication. The section is aimed at
> repair of flying/bracing wires and control cables but the technique is the
> same with heavier material.
>
> A larger chandlery (sailboat parts shop) is likely your best bet to find
> someone with actual experience.
>
> I'm pleased to see the support for winch launching. Even in the wide-open
> USA midwest they make sense (except maybe for wave entries).
>
> Cheers,
> Marc
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

One thing about the old RAF clubs, 50p launches. Did some 5+ hours flights
from those;^) Cable mending with the 4/3
wind and a reef knot was nearly as fast as with swaging tools.

Frank Whiteley

PS: That's when the UKP=$2.00US

"Charles Yeates" > wrote in message
...
> Dave
>
> Copper ferrules have worked easily and well for us at Bluenose for over
> twenty-two years -- Why take the time and risk of interweaving strands?
>
> Dave Martin wrote:
> > At 22:42 18 March 2004, Gary Emerson wrote:
> >
> >>In reading Derek's book, he makes mention that a cable
> >>can be
> >>effectively repaired with out using aluminum or copper
> >>ferrules, but
> >>apparently by carefully opening up the 7x7 stranded
> >>construction and
> >>then interweaving the strands back together for a seamless
> >>repair.
> >>Obviously this has advantages of a smooth running cable,
> >>but it may be
> >>tricky and time consuming to do right.
> >>
> >>So, with that said, does anyone have a document that
> >>they could refer me
> >>to that describes this operation in enough detail to
> >>be able to give it
> >>a try?
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Proper interwoven splices in 7 strand cable are difficult
> > and time consuming.
> >
> > The following is a simple simple procedure, books not
> > required.
> > I was taught this many years ago by an experience winch
> > driver.
> >
> > Takes about three minutes after a bit or practice.
> >
> > Steps are as follows, the basic principle is like tying
> > a reef knot.
> >
> > 1. Make neat cuts to the ends to be joined.
> > 2. Open one cable around the centre core for about
> > 10inches in two halves. Leaving the centre core on
> > its own (Longer until you get used to it, less as you
> > get more experience)
> > 3. Cut out the centre core and re wind the cable for
> > about half an inch.
> > 4. The taking the two ends on one cable tie a single
> > 'knot' in them. If done correctly the cable will lie
> > together following the natural twist in the cable.
> >
> > Now keep wrapping each end round the other end. If
> > you got it right, you should finish with the cut ends
> > twisting naturally round each other until they reach
> > the main cable.
> >
> > You should now have a cable with a neat loop at the
> > end.
> >
> > If this is right you have cracked the job.
> >
> > Next go to step 2 with the other cable.
> >
> > Before going any further, feed this cable through the
> > loop you created in the first cable and then
> >
> > 6 Wrap the two ends round the other cable and Tie a
> > knot as above .
> >
> > You should finish with two cables each with a loop
> > in the end
> > each loop being around the other cable.
> >
> > 7. Pull tight.
> >
> > If you look at the finished knot it is similar to a
> > reef knot.
> >
> > Some clubs wrap the knot in 'gaffer' tape which then
> > forms a protective coat as it beds in the tape and
> > glue form part of the knot and reduce frayed ends.
> >
> > I have done many splices like this and they eventually
> > pull so tight they are difficult to detect. They are
> > also smoother on the pay on gear than new ferrules.
> >
> >
> > It is very good on older worn rope when ferrules do
> > not compress enough to grip and the club have forgot
> > to order new cables.
> >
> > Hope this makes sense. It is a very simple procecure
> > try it with some spare cable.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[Dave Martin]

At 06:48 19 March 2004, F.L. Whiteley wrote:
>One thing about the old RAF clubs, 50p launches. Did
>some 5+ hours flights
>from those;^) Cable mending with the 4/3
>wind and a reef knot was nearly as fast as with swaging
>tools.
>
>Frank Whiteley
>
>PS: That's when the UKP=$2.00US
>
>'Charles Yeates' wrote in message
...
>> Dave
>>
>> Copper ferrules have worked easily and well for us
>>at Bluenose for over twenty-two years -- Why take the
time and risk of interweaving strands?


Charles and Bill

My own club use ferrules -- most of the time, But glider
pilot being glider pilots there are times when the
ferrules have run out, the press is U/S and you need
to join a cable quickly.

Tying knots in cable is just a quick and simple mthod
that winch drivers should be able to do. I have seen
simple reef knots tied in cables as Frank said and
then wrapped in gaffer tape. Just as effective but
'knot'as pretty.

I agree with Bill re spectra, but we have visited this
topic before and as yet no one in the UK wants to make
the investment in trials. But we will keep plugging
away

Dave

[Martin Gregorie]

On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:37:37 -0700, "F.L. Whiteley"
> wrote:

>The NCSA, now CSA, used to have 'wave' winch camps at Walden, CO annually.
>IIRC, the pilot in this image got his diamond from a winch launch.
>http://www.soarcsa.org/images/pikwinch.jpg (photo credit to Rich Carr)
>Steamboats in the distance.
>
Nice picture! Nice launch too.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[BAToulson]

In article >, "F.L. Whiteley"
> writes:

>One thing about the old RAF clubs, 50p launches. Did some 5+ hours flights
>from those;^) Cable mending with the 4/3
>wind and a reef knot was nearly as fast as with swaging tools.

Yeah, but the taxpayer was unwillingly co-opted into chipping in another £5.00
per launch!!!

Barney
UK

[F.L. Whiteley]

"BAToulson" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "F.L. Whiteley"
> > writes:
>
> >One thing about the old RAF clubs, 50p launches. Did some 5+ hours
flights
> >from those;^) Cable mending with the 4/3
> >wind and a reef knot was nearly as fast as with swaging tools.
>
> Yeah, but the taxpayer was unwillingly co-opted into chipping in another
£5.00
> per launch!!!
>
> Barney
> UK

Bit unfair to some of the smaller RAF clubs, don't you think? From my
experience, although they had access to vacant hangars, much was cobbled
together. Old 150hp Bedford diesel winches got us to the nose bleed
altitude of 1100agl if the launch was into wind. Learned to scratch away
really well. I think we used the JP4 drained from the Phantom tanks when
they went into maintenance. Some of the gliders were from the Nuffield
Trust IIRC. Gee, think we had an L-13, G-102, and K-4, but don't see those
as launch subsidies. Don't think the taxpayer paid anything like that in
subsidies in 1979. Got some references?

Frank