Property Tax on gliders in California?

[Mark Navarre]

Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value info
on my glider for the purpose of property tax assessment. I am curious, why
now? Since I have owned the glider almost 5 years already, I wonder if it took
that long for the County/State to catch up on the paperwork.
The letter refers to California revenue and tax code section 5362, and I have
reviewed the entire section 53xx and found no specific inclusion or exclusion
of gliders or sailplanes. I will of course be bringing this up with my tax
accountant, but wondered if any other glider owners have experienced a similar
situation?
-
Mark Navarre
2/5 black ace
LoCal, USA
-

[Greg Arnold]

Mark:

It just took them 5 years to catch up with you. With any luck, they
won't assess taxes and penalties for the last 5 years.

Greg (paying property tax on his glider in Santa Barbara County)



Mark Navarre wrote:

> Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value info
> on my glider for the purpose of property tax assessment. I am curious, why
> now? Since I have owned the glider almost 5 years already, I wonder if it took
> that long for the County/State to catch up on the paperwork.
> The letter refers to California revenue and tax code section 5362, and I have
> reviewed the entire section 53xx and found no specific inclusion or exclusion
> of gliders or sailplanes. I will of course be bringing this up with my tax
> accountant, but wondered if any other glider owners have experienced a similar
> situation?
> -
> Mark Navarre
> 2/5 black ace
> LoCal, USA
> -

[BTIZ]

if the tax law says ... personal property.. it's taxable
if it specifies.. "aircraft".. it's taxable..

In this era of tight budgets, many state and county/local governments are
realizing that there are taxes out there they have not collected that they
legally could. Our local county assessor did a search on all aircraft in the
FAA data base based on zip code registrations and then mailed out "tax
forms" to the registered owner.

Our club even received forms on aircraft that had long since been destroyed
and the owner did not "un register" it. They were kind enough to ask when it
entered the county and value at that time, then they "depreciated" the value
to current year and sent a tax bill.

Many "gliders" don't get "caught" because they are always in the trailer and
not kept at the airport so the local airport watch dogs don't see the
N-number to "run it". But then the assessor's office gets smart that they
can do a FAA data base search based on locality of registration, and they
"gotcha".

A $100K value aircraft pays the same tax rate as a $100K house, in this
state/county anyway. But the aircraft "depreciates" on the tax rolls, and
the house "appreciates".

BT

"Mark Navarre" > wrote in message
...
> Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value
info
> on my glider for the purpose of property tax assessment. I am curious,
why
> now? Since I have owned the glider almost 5 years already, I wonder if it
took
> that long for the County/State to catch up on the paperwork.
> The letter refers to California revenue and tax code section 5362, and I
have
> reviewed the entire section 53xx and found no specific inclusion or
exclusion
> of gliders or sailplanes. I will of course be bringing this up with my
tax
> accountant, but wondered if any other glider owners have experienced a
similar
> situation?
> -
> Mark Navarre
> 2/5 black ace
> LoCal, USA
> -

[Vorsanger1]

When we purchased our sailplane, L.A. County caught on to it, and we began to
receive our bills regularly right away, and have been paying yearly ever since.

Cheers anyhow,

Charles

[Paolo]

"Vorsanger1" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> When we purchased our sailplane, L.A. County caught on to it, and we began
to
> receive our bills regularly right away, and have been paying yearly ever
since.

in Italy everything is taxed (we say that soon it will be taxed also the air
that we breathe), but luckily the property tax on aircrafts and gliders has
been being abolished for a few years...

Paolo

[tango4]

C'mon Paolo,

any Italian worth his salt wouldn't pay the tax anyway!

:-)

Ian

"Paolo" > wrote in message
...
> "Vorsanger1" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > When we purchased our sailplane, L.A. County caught on to it, and we
began
> to
> > receive our bills regularly right away, and have been paying yearly ever
> since.
>
> in Italy everything is taxed (we say that soon it will be taxed also the
air
> that we breathe), but luckily the property tax on aircrafts and gliders
has
> been being abolished for a few years...
>
> Paolo
>
>

[Mal]

Please don't give our government any ideas in Australia.

[cernauta]

(Mark Navarre) wrote:

>Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value info
>on my glider for the purpose of property tax assessment. I am curious,

I am curious too! would you please like to specify the amount?
I understand it is related to the value of the glider (without trailer
and instruments I guess), but how is the tax calculated?

thank you very much

Aldo Cernezzi

[Mark Navarre]

>I am curious too! would you please like to specify the amount?
>I understand it is related to the value of the glider (without trailer
>and instruments I guess), but how is the tax calculated?
>
>thank you very much
>
>Aldo Cernezzi
>

Aldo, I don't know the amount yet, but a friend in another county tells me that
his rate was 1.240802% of the value of the glider.
-
Mark Navarre
2/5 black ace
LoCal, USA
-

[Vaughn]

"Mark Navarre" > wrote in message
...
> Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value
info
> on my glider for the purpose of property tax assessment.

There is apparently some limited exclusion for classic aircraft, according
to this missive from AOPA lifted from another newsgroup:

AOPA GETS HISTORICAL AIRCRAFT CLARIFICATION FROM BOE
At the request of AOPA, the California Board of Equalization (BOE)
has clarified recent changes to the property tax exemption for
historical aircraft. This exemption is available to an original,
restored, or replica aircraft that is 35 years or older. The
confusion arose from changes that went into effect on January 1,
requiring aircraft owners to submit certificates of attendance
from events where the aircraft were on display. Now, in a letter
to assessors, the BOE recommends waiving the requirement for 2004.
Download the letter
( http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/pdf/lta04012.pdf ).

[James]

How is the term "aircraft" defined? If aircraft have engines, and
gliders do not, then gliders are exempt. Gliders are "worthless"
without some sort of external takeoff source. Would this argument
work?


"BTIZ" > wrote in message news:<HB87c.20094$Nj.953@fed1read01>...
> if the tax law says ... personal property.. it's taxable
> if it specifies.. "aircraft".. it's taxable..
>

[Leon McAtee]

(Mark Navarre) wrote in message >...
> Have received a letter from the tax assessor requesting location and value info
I will of course be bringing this up with my tax
> accountant, but wondered if any other glider owners have experienced a similar
> situation?

Is your glider registered as an Experimental? If so you might be able
to get it tax exempted in your state - as do some of the power
Ecperimental owners by claiming the "classic" exemption. It is my
understanding that age is not important and to qualify there need only
be less than 5 of that "type" registered and you need to "show or
display" it so many days a year.

=================
Leon McAtee
not a resident of CA - so I could be a bit off on the details.

[BTIZ]

according to the US AIM/FAR
any thing in the air is an "Aircraft"
airplanes have power
gliders glide..

but the definition that counts is in the tax book

BT
"James" > wrote in message
om...
> How is the term "aircraft" defined? If aircraft have engines, and
> gliders do not, then gliders are exempt. Gliders are "worthless"
> without some sort of external takeoff source. Would this argument
> work?
>
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:<HB87c.20094$Nj.953@fed1read01>...
> > if the tax law says ... personal property.. it's taxable
> > if it specifies.. "aircraft".. it's taxable..
> >

[Steve]

"BTIZ" > wrote
> A $100K value aircraft pays the same tax rate as a $100K house, in this
> state/county anyway. But the aircraft "depreciates" on the tax rolls, and
> the house "appreciates".
>
> BT

Consider yourself lucky. In Kansas (Yes, home to The Air Capital of
The World), airplanes are taxed at THREE TIMES the rate of houses.
Here, 120K home pays about $1600 per year. So, an ASH-25 would have
to pay almost $5K/year.

But, if it is over 30 years old, it is eligible for exemption. Wanna
guess the age of my gliders? My 604 turned 31 last month. Happy
Birthday to you....

Steve Leonard
Wichita, KS

[DGRTEK]

In New Jersey, the tax collector hit us up within 2 months. The letter wasn't
exactly friendly. They wanted to know why we didn't pay the tax already....
First they didn't believe the price paid for the 1-26, and we had to show proof
of purchase, copies of checks front and back.....

Then we had to send in a check, and appeal the bill afterwards. After many
phone calls and letters, we received a Refund. It seems that the tax code is
vague.

We felt that since planes are registered at a Federal level, the question of
States being able to tax a Federal transaction comes into play. Lastly, we
purchased the glider from a club, Non Profit Org....and all that, so there was
another point in our favor.

Good luck.

Douglas

[Thomas F. Dixon]

I think all of you are pretty lucky. In Idaho we pay a one time sales
tax of 6% and it only takes the state about 2 weeks from FAA
registration date to send a tax notice.
The big part is the annual fee, it is a killer. $0.01 per LB of max
all up weight, $11.02 for my ASW 27. This fee is used for
search/rescue, airport maint and payroll at the State Aviation Dept.
If one neglects to pay this little thing, then they get a notice for
personal property tax which would be about $1,000 a year on my ship.
Once one gets on the personal property tax roll it takes an act of
someone who stays anonomous so one never can get it off. Needless to
say, my check for the #11.02 is paid early in January.

Tom

[Vorsanger1]

Can on register the plane in Idaho ($11.02 is a steal) and keep it and fly it
in CA ?

Cheers anyhow, Charles

[Tim Taylor]

(Thomas F. Dixon) wrote in message >...
> I think all of you are pretty lucky. In Idaho we pay a one time sales
> tax of 6% and it only takes the state about 2 weeks from FAA
> registration date to send a tax notice.
> The big part is the annual fee, it is a killer. $0.01 per LB of max
> all up weight, $11.02 for my ASW 27. This fee is used for
> search/rescue, airport maint and payroll at the State Aviation Dept.
> If one neglects to pay this little thing, then they get a notice for
> personal property tax which would be about $1,000 a year on my ship.
> Once one gets on the personal property tax roll it takes an act of
> someone who stays anonomous so one never can get it off. Needless to
> say, my check for the #11.02 is paid early in January.
>
> Tom

I can see my Nimbus needs to move up the road about 20 miles to Preston ID.

Look forward to running with the ID group in a few months,

Tim

[126Flyr]

When I bought 1-26 #309 in Riverside County, it took a couple of years
for the previous owner to report the sale to them, then I got a bill,
then I started keeping it in L.A. County (hangar).

Mark, pay attention, there's a huge penalty for not paying, but if you
point out that you bought a GLIDER from a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL (not an
aircraft dealer, or a business), the "sales tax & penalty" are waived
or do not apply (whatever the proper legalese is for this). You'll
get a questionaire from the assessor each and every year, in case you
overhaul the engine, add radios, "restore" something... I don't know
if you can claim depreciation for damage or repairs -- I commented on
the last questionaire that my ship needed recovering and paint...

Over the last three years, my bill has been $51.44, $51.41 and $40.01
-- go figure on the drop. I keep copies of the questionaire for
reference as it always asks when purchased and for how much. On the
stated value of $5500.00, that works out to about 1% tax. Another
good reason to fly a 1-26? (As if _I_ needed one!). I remarked on
the questionaire that "1-26 values have been falling..." I have NO
idea if this helped, but ten bucks is ten bucks (a pattern tow?).

ALSO: keep the TRAILER out of the equation!!! You're already paying
exobitant California "property" tax on your vehicles through DMV. For
those not familiar with CA politics, the recalled governor raised my
Honda Odyssey "propety tax" (DMV registration fees, etc.) from $229.00
per year to $497.00 on a 3 year old $33,000.00 minivan. That is only
one of the reasons I voted for Arnold despite wanting to see Davis
stew in his political juices for the full term, then really get run
out of Sacramento on a rail. Oops, that's bordering on politics --
really guys, I'm just trying to explain the taxes...

And you thought soaring avoided taxes because we use nature, don't
make noise and have pretty ships...

-Pete
#309

[Marc Ramsey]

126Flyr wrote:
> For those not familiar with CA politics, the recalled governor raised my
> Honda Odyssey "propety tax" (DMV registration fees, etc.) from $229.00
> per year to $497.00 on a 3 year old $33,000.00 minivan. That is only
> one of the reasons I voted for Arnold despite wanting to see Davis
> stew in his political juices for the full term, then really get run
> out of Sacramento on a rail. Oops, that's bordering on politics --
> really guys, I'm just trying to explain the taxes...

I know many Californians like to forget this, but Davis did not *raise*
the auto "property tax", it was *lowered* a few years back when
California had a huge tax surplus, then Davis *restored* it to its
former levels when the surplus went away. But, why let reality get in
the way of electing Arnold...

Marc

[ken ward]

In article >,
Marc Ramsey > wrote:

> 126Flyr wrote:
> > For those not familiar with CA politics, the recalled governor raised my
> > Honda Odyssey "propety tax" (DMV registration fees, etc.) from $229.00
> > per year to $497.00 on a 3 year old $33,000.00 minivan. That is only
> > one of the reasons I voted for Arnold despite wanting to see Davis
> > stew in his political juices for the full term, then really get run
> > out of Sacramento on a rail. Oops, that's bordering on politics --
> > really guys, I'm just trying to explain the taxes...
>
> I know many Californians like to forget this, but Davis did not *raise*
> the auto "property tax", it was *lowered* a few years back when
> California had a huge tax surplus, then Davis *restored* it to its
> former levels when the surplus went away. But, why let reality get in
> the way of electing Arnold...
>
> Marc

And don't forget the new Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) stickers
or plates that CA registered trailers now carry. I haven't gotten a
registration fee invoice since that sticker arrived, which saves me
about $20 each year.

Hmmm, I wonder how much money it saves someone who owns a tractor
trailer?

Ken