Near encounter with airliner detected on PowerFlarm

[Steve Koerner]

This past Saturday my flight out of Estrella took me about 10 miles NW of Tuscon class C at 11,200 ft with my Trig transponder on and blinking replies to radar. I was northbound at 90 - 100 kts. I observed an ADS-B target on my PowerFlarm display and on ClearNav display coming directly on a collision course with me from my 5 o'clock. The target was climbing rapidly and at a rate that my assessment was that he'd reach my altitude at just about exactly the wrong time. After observing the situation for maybe 10 or 20 seconds with no change, I decided I'd better do something. I made a hard left turn and dove off to the west. After he past my stern, I resumed my northerly course and watched the airliner zooming on up -- never making any adjustment to his flight path.

If things had been working as I'd thought they should, he would have been vectored around me. It seems he wasn't. Were it not for PowerFlarm's ADS-B In functionality, I'm guessing there might have been some spilled cocktails when the jet did a TCAS response. I filed a report with NTSB.

I'm thinking one message here is that we all need ADS-B out so that we are front and center visible in every cockpit going forward. As I understand it, we're at the cusp of having glider reasonable hardware options for ADS-B out. I'm thinking that round about 2020, nearly nobody with an engine will bother to look out the window anymore. We'd all better be in the system; if we're not, we're going to be more vulnerable than we have been.

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 7:11:46 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
> This past Saturday my flight out of Estrella took me about 10 miles NW of Tuscon class C at 11,200 ft with my Trig transponder on and blinking replies to radar. I was northbound at 90 - 100 kts. I observed an ADS-B target on my PowerFlarm display and on ClearNav display coming directly on a collision course with me from my 5 o'clock. The target was climbing rapidly and at a rate that my assessment was that he'd reach my altitude at just about exactly the wrong time. After observing the situation for maybe 10 or 20 seconds with no change, I decided I'd better do something. I made a hard left turn and dove off to the west. After he past my stern, I resumed my northerly course and watched the airliner zooming on up -- never making any adjustment to his flight path.
>
> If things had been working as I'd thought they should, he would have been vectored around me. It seems he wasn't. Were it not for PowerFlarm's ADS-B In functionality, I'm guessing there might have been some spilled cocktails when the jet did a TCAS response. I filed a report with NTSB.
>
> I'm thinking one message here is that we all need ADS-B out so that we are front and center visible in every cockpit going forward. As I understand it, we're at the cusp of having glider reasonable hardware options for ADS-B out. I'm thinking that round about 2020, nearly nobody with an engine will bother to look out the window anymore. We'd all better be in the system; if we're not, we're going to be more vulnerable than we have been.

The Trig TN70, TA 72 is supposed to be available Sept 1 when connected to a TT22 will provide ADS-B out.

http://www.craggyaero.com/trig.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 7:11:46 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:

> I'm thinking one message here is that we all need ADS-B out so that we are front and center visible in every cockpit going forward. As I understand it, we're at the cusp of having glider reasonable hardware options for ADS-B out. I'm thinking that round about 2020, nearly nobody with an engine will bother to look out the window anymore. We'd all better be in the system; if we're not, we're going to be more vulnerable than we have been.

I've been told that TCAS will remain the primary (possibly the only) system that generates collision warnings in aircraft that are required to carry TCAS and that ADS-B will be used only for traffic display, not independent collision warnings. Can anyone confirm whether that is the case?

9B

[[email protected]]

> I've been told that TCAS will remain the primary (possibly the only) system that generates collision warnings in aircraft that are required to carry TCAS and that ADS-B will be used only for traffic display, not independent collision warnings. Can anyone confirm whether that is the case?

Yes, at least for mid-term. Of course, ideas go further.

[Dan Marotta]

Scary stuff! Were you in radio contact with ATC? I know it's not
required but it can be helpful in some circumstances. For example, I
was flying above Salt Lake City Class B back in May in my Stemme (with
the engine running) and in contact with ATC. As I neared the north
boundary, Approach Control asked me if I could maintain my altitude for
a while longer so they could launch a group of airliners underneath me
along my course line. I agreed and watched (on my Flarm/ClearNav)
several airliners climb underneath and exit the Class B in front of me.

On 8/7/2017 8:11 PM, Steve Koerner wrote:
> This past Saturday my flight out of Estrella took me about 10 miles NW of Tuscon class C at 11,200 ft with my Trig transponder on and blinking replies to radar. I was northbound at 90 - 100 kts. I observed an ADS-B target on my PowerFlarm display and on ClearNav display coming directly on a collision course with me from my 5 o'clock. The target was climbing rapidly and at a rate that my assessment was that he'd reach my altitude at just about exactly the wrong time. After observing the situation for maybe 10 or 20 seconds with no change, I decided I'd better do something. I made a hard left turn and dove off to the west. After he past my stern, I resumed my northerly course and watched the airliner zooming on up -- never making any adjustment to his flight path.
>
> If things had been working as I'd thought they should, he would have been vectored around me. It seems he wasn't. Were it not for PowerFlarm's ADS-B In functionality, I'm guessing there might have been some spilled cocktails when the jet did a TCAS response. I filed a report with NTSB.
>
> I'm thinking one message here is that we all need ADS-B out so that we are front and center visible in every cockpit going forward. As I understand it, we're at the cusp of having glider reasonable hardware options for ADS-B out. I'm thinking that round about 2020, nearly nobody with an engine will bother to look out the window anymore. We'd all better be in the system; if we're not, we're going to be more vulnerable than we have been.
>
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[N97MT]

On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 9:11:46 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
> I'm thinking one message here is that we all need ADS-B out so that we are front and center visible in every cockpit going forward.

I do not agree. Mandating transponder equipment (yes ADS-B Out REQUIRES a transponder in addition to a WAAS GPS source) for our 1-26 flying permanently 50 miles away from the nearest Class C airport, within Class G and E, below 5,000 feet, while the airliners climb 10,000 feet above us, is a waste of money. What ever happened to YOU looking out of your canopy?

I find it great that you can afford the extra equipment to enhance your own situational awareness so you do not collide with the rich guys. And yes, if I were soaring 10 miles away from the Class C boundary I would definitely be talking to Approach, regardless of what equipment I had. But I do not agree to the $5,000 price tag for an Avionics shop to upgrade my $8,000 glider for questionable additional value in my usual situation. Not every circumstance will match yours.

[[email protected]]

...."But I do not agree to the $5,000 price tag for an Avionics shop to upgrade my $8,000 glider for questionable additional value in my usual situation...."


Interesting that you're NOT considering the value of yourself, but the value of your fairly replaceable 1-26....


Besides, I think the original poster was making a suggestion vs. recommending a FAA policy change

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

1. ADS-B Out does not require a transponder if you use UAT, which may offer more economical options as we get closer to 2020.

2. What about making yourself more visible to other GA aircraft? Pilots who have not flown in ADS-B equipped aircraft have no idea how much traffic is out there that you don't see. People way over estimate how well visual scanning works. I often can see other GA aircraft on ADS-B within a mile of my position, and even though I know exactly where to look, I still can't see the aircraft visually.

[Paul Agnew]

Point of order - responding to a TCAS Resolution Advisory will not spill any cocktails. :-)

[N97MT]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 6:40:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Schumann wrote:
> 1. ADS-B Out does not require a transponder if you use UAT, which may offer more economical options as we get closer to 2020.
>

Curious how you would comply with 14 CFR 91.227 if you did not have an operating transponder. What Mode 3/A code and IDENT status would you report if you did not have an operating transponder?