View Full Version : Auto Towing a 1-26
I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>
> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>
> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>
> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
You do need ground launch training and the associated endorsement.
To ground launch with a reasonable degree of success, the glider will need a CG type hook. Some A/B/C's had such hooks. I've never seen an E with one.
It is not likely you will get 600 feet with 1000 feet of rope on a nose hook.
It sounds like you are trying to do this on the cheap. May be false economy.
FWIW
UH
from FAR 61.31.....
(j) Additional training required for operating a glider. (1) No person may act as pilot in command of a glider—
(i) Using ground-tow procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily accomplished ground and flight training on ground-tow procedures and operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found proficient in ground-tow procedures and operations;
(ii) Using aerotow procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily accomplished ground and flight training on aerotow procedures and operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found proficient in aerotow procedures and operations; or
(iii) Using self-launch procedures, unless that person has satisfactorily accomplished ground and flight training on self-launch procedures and operations, and has received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies in that pilot's logbook that the pilot has been found proficient in self-launch procedures and operations.
(2) The holder of a glider rating issued prior to August 4, 1997, is considered to be in compliance with the training and logbook endorsement requirements of this paragraph for the specific operating privilege for which the holder is already qualified.
from the reference below: "It is essential to use a center of gravity (CG)towhook that has an automatic back release feature."
glider handbook, chapter 7 (ground launch starts on page 11), which is online here:
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/glider_handbook/media/gfh_ch07.pdf
WB
August 10th 17, 01:12 AM
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:07:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>
> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>
> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>
> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
My club was founded using ground launch. Ground launch is a great, economical way to get into the air. However, it is not so simple as a bucket full of rope and a truck.
Besides a glider and rope, you will need:
Ground launch endorsement
CG hook on the glider
Weak link on the glider end of the rope (or assurance that the rope is of appropriate breaking strength)
Tow release or guillotine on the tow vehicle (or some rapid and assured means of releasing the rope from the tow vehicle if the glider cannot release)..
Enough room for the rope to fall so that the inevitable cross wind will not drop your rope in the trees, on powerlines, other aircraft, people, etc. Those tow rings on the end of the rope will put quite a dent aircraft, people's heads, etc. if you drop it on them.
Ground launching off a nose hook will severely limit your launch height. However, the big problem is that it is horrifically dangerous. CG hooks will back release on their own if you overfly the launch vehicle. The nose hook will not and when you start arcing towards the ground it's going to be under so much tension that you will not be able to release at all. Counting on advertised breaking strength for rope is a crapshoot. A mechanical weak link is best. Tost (the tow ring people) figured out all this stuff a long time ago and they sell well engineered hardware for ground launch.
Unless you are launching into wind higher than the stall speed of the glider, you will not get more than half your rope length in altitude at best. Usually, you will get around 1/3 the rope length. Get at least 1500' of rope.
Papa3[_2_]
August 10th 17, 01:48 AM
Same inputs as the others. FWIW, my club had a pretty active auto-tow program with a big-block Oldsmobile wagon and a 2-22, 2-33, and 1-26. I probably had 30 auto tows while I was a student and post solo.
My number one recommendation would be to get someone who knows what they are doing to come out and teach you and your driver. Despite the "simplicity", there are any number of ways to kill yourself and hurt your driver. It's quite possible to end up at a very awkward altitude which requires immediate and decisive action to avoid a real problem. That's both a benefit and a risk of this approach.
Erik Mann (P3)
Frank Whiteley
August 10th 17, 05:21 AM
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>
> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>
> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>
> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
One of the Seymour 'boys' told me they used to auto tow there in a 1-26 and sometimes kite on the rope at the end of the runway for 'longer' flights when the wind was strong enough.
WB
August 10th 17, 06:55 PM
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 11:21:16 PM UTC-5, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 5:07:34 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> > I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
> >
> > I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
> >
> > I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
> >
> > What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
>
> One of the Seymour 'boys' told me they used to auto tow there in a 1-26 and sometimes kite on the rope at the end of the runway for 'longer' flights when the wind was strong enough.
We did the kiting thing in a 2-33 at Caesar Creek once-upon-a-time. Mark Conner and Guy Byars were the instigators, I believe. Mark had a bucket of rope and a van. 1300' of rope IIRC. Mark's van had a tow release on a trailer tongue. The day I was present, it was blue cold and the wind was howling down the runway. The van would take off down the turf runway (2800') and get the glider airborne. At the end of the runway, the van would stop and we'd just hold the stick back in the glider and continue to climb until the rope back released. The wind was so strong that the glider would just kite on up until release. I remember lookng down and seeing the van stopped at the end of the runway, almost directly under us, and we were still climbing. At release, we'd make an immediate 360 turn. In the time it took to make that 360, we'd already be blown downwind of the landing spot. Seems like we got up to 900' or more on some of those kiting launches. Snow showers blowing through would sometimes make the top of the launch IFR. At one point one of the Maurer brothers reported 300 fpm up in one of the snow squalls. Good times!
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
August 10th 17, 10:39 PM
I totally see peeps wanting this thread deleted, while outside time limits for the FAA, still better for no record.
But.......
I seem to remember retrieves in the SW for a 1-26 where the crew vehicle towed the glider until a cross power wire.
Glider dropped the rope, landed, got hooked up, went to the next wire.
Stupid crap some of us did way back when....l.l
Yes, I left names out.
Yes, most of us would know them.
Let's us just say, "Pickle"...,,,,,,,,nuff said.
And no, it was not I.........
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>
> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>
> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>
> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
Sign over your life insurance policy to me first...
Dan Marotta
August 12th 17, 03:56 PM
On 8/11/2017 6:10 PM, wrote:
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
>> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>>
>> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>>
>> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>>
>> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
> Sign over your life insurance policy to me first...
Why do you say that? My former partner and I used to take our LS-6a on
safaris all over the southwest using a 1,000' rope and my 5L Ford pickup
or his Jeep Grand Cherokee (don't know the engine size). We routinely
got 700' AGL, though we did have a CG release.
--
Dan, 5J
On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>
> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>
> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern. I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>
> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground launching?
Back in the late 70's we did auto tow at the old Kendall Gliderport in Miami. The tow vehicle was an old station wagon and we used a steel wire along with a weak link. We could get high enough for a pattern tow and several of us were able to get the rating at that time.
You can auto tow a 1-26 or a 2-33 using the "chin" hook, but you'll need a long runway and rope. We could get around 800 feet using a 1200 ft rope on a 5000 ft runway at Odessa, and up to 1200 ft using a 2000 ft wire on a 9000 ft runway at Hobbs. If the glider bucks a little, which it will, release the back pressure on the stick to stop it. I wouldn't try it on a 3000 ft runway.
kinsell
August 17th 17, 11:36 PM
On 08/12/2017 08:56 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
>
> On 8/11/2017 6:10 PM, wrote:
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4,
>> wrote:
>>> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>>>
>>> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the
>>> Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>>>
>>> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll
>>> hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern.
>>> I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>>>
>>> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the fun
>>> of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for ground
>>> launching?
>> Sign over your life insurance policy to me first...
>
> Why do you say that? My former partner and I used to take our LS-6a on
> safaris all over the southwest using a 1,000' rope and my 5L Ford pickup
> or his Jeep Grand Cherokee (don't know the engine size). We routinely
> got 700' AGL, though we did have a CG release.
>
Just for completeness, in your posting about how safe auto towing is,
maybe you should mention how your safaris came to their conclusion.
Dan Marotta
August 17th 17, 11:57 PM
Two of three were terrific. I assume you're referring to the crash on
the second safari but it had absolutely nothing to do with the auto
tow. It was simply a botched landing pattern wherein the pilot elected
not to land from a textbook base to final position. He flew almost the
entire length of the runway after flying downwind, base, and final, and
only at the last moment, tried to turn back and land. He spun in within
100 feet of where I was sitting winding up the rope. Given his low
altitude and Monday morning quarterbacking, he should have landed
straight ahead on the remaining runway and probably run off the end.
But that would have saved the glider from being destroyed and him
spending a long time in rehab for a broken back.
Hardly an unsafe ground launch. He got off at the normal 700' AGL.
On 8/17/2017 4:36 PM, kinsell wrote:
> On 08/12/2017 08:56 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2017 6:10 PM, wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 7:07:34 PM UTC-4,
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm a new glider pilot looking at purchasing a 1-26.
>>>>
>>>> I'm looking at gaining the flights and experience to get the
>>>> Commercial Glider and adding the CFI-G to my existing CFI-A.
>>>>
>>>> I envision doing auto tows at my local 3200ft airport. I'll
>>>> hopefully be getting to 600AGL to just do laps around the pattern.
>>>> I'd plan to use a 1000ft rope and my 8.1L Chevy Suburban.
>>>>
>>>> What's everyone's take on auto towing a 1-26 mostly just for the
>>>> fun of very quick flights? Do I need a logbook endorcement for
>>>> ground launching?
>>> Sign over your life insurance policy to me first...
>>
>> Why do you say that? My former partner and I used to take our LS-6a
>> on safaris all over the southwest using a 1,000' rope and my 5L Ford
>> pickup or his Jeep Grand Cherokee (don't know the engine size). We
>> routinely got 700' AGL, though we did have a CG release.
>>
> Just for completeness, in your posting about how safe auto towing is,
> maybe you should mention how your safaris came to their conclusion.
--
Dan, 5J
Congratulations on getting the glider rating! Your 1-26 auto towing goal sounds reasonable. You do need some additional study and training with documentation of the requirements n the regulations from a CFIG and an endorsement for ground launch from the CFIG.
We get about 600 ft. consistently auto towing our club 1-26E in low head wind conditions at our field, a bit higher if towing into a 10 kt. headwind. Our field elevation is 800 ft. MSL and we have about 3000 ft of usable runway. It gets quite hot in the summer, about 100-110 deg. F. in the summer, so the density s;titude gets a lot higher then. It's a dirt surface, and we use 1100 ft of 1/4 poly twisted rope. It's rated at 1100 lbs breakng strength when new, but obviously gets lower ib strength with age, UV exposure and wear. We use various tow vehicles, depending on who we can cadjole to volunteer. Yours should be more than adequate for the task, and will towca 2-33 with two people in it adequtely also. We use handheld vhf aircraft radios for communications on the CTAF frequency. We have a Schwizer release on the tow vehicle mounted on a heavy gat hinge that can pivot up and down so the release remains in line with the direction of the force on the towline. There is an eye on the moving part of the hinge that keeps the release line in lined up with the releaxe in the proper directo
Sorry for all the typos on prev. post. Cellphone, no spell checker. We found it not necessary or desirable to use a pilot chute or disk to increase drag on glider end tow rope as it falls after glider releases off an auto tow. We let the rope fall in a heap. We do put a streamer of fuorescent colored plastic tape on the glider end in order to identify it for retreival. The rope pulls out during retreival without getting tangled if it is pulled out the same way it fell into the heap. The fast fall without drag producing devices on the rope gives it less time to drift off to the side of the runway in a crosswind. Fortunately, we have a very wide runway with no lights or fences to worry about. A "strop", shich can be made out of 6 ft. of garden hose over the glider end of the rope is a good idea to help reduce the chance of the glider over-running the rope when the tow vehicle takes the slack out of the rope, jerking the glider forward slightly and then hits the, brakes and stops. This can result in the rope getting it tangled around the back end of the skid or in the wheel well, making it so the glider cannot release, and possibly making the back release mechanism inoperative as well.
We have only used the standard Schweizer chin hooks for auto towing 1-26s and 2-33s. We have auto towed Standard Libelle, Diamant 18, and DG 100 with CG hooks over the years. The Schweizers undoubtedly could get somewhat higher if they were equipped with a CG hook. The chin hooks do result in a tendency where the horizontal tail will stall if the pilot pulls back hard on the stick beyond a certain limit. When the tail stalls, it rises, thus pitching the nose down, and actually reducing the angle of attack of the wing. With experience, pilots learn to pull back on the stick to a point just short of inducing this tail stall, which can give the maximum performace climb. If the pilot does not ease off the back pressure and persists in pulling back, a repetitive series of tail stalls, each wth a with pitchdown, followed by the nose pithing up again when the horizonral unstalls, and then as the stick is held back, and then a new tail stall and the resultant ,pitch down. This "bucking" phenomenon is not really dangerous as long as the glider is within design limits of airspeed for ground launch and is otherwise structurally sound ( probably does cause some unecessary fatigue loading to the structure, however). In fact, it might even be considered a usefull feedback signal to the pilot to back off some on the back pressure until the bucking stops, and to check and be sure airspeed is within safe limits. With a CG, hook you don't get the bucking, and can trim the glidet to almost fly the tow by itself in pitch, but you also get less feedback through the back pressure on the stick as to how much loading is being applied to the wings. We generally try to target an appropriate airspeed for a good climb for that particular glider under the conditions of that particular flight, not too fast, which requires lowering the nose to reduce the load on wing and possibly even releasing if at or approaching max placarded auto/winxh airspeed, and not too slow, where a hard pull up would increase risk of stalling the wing near the ground. We use target airspeed of about 50 mph for the 1-26, and about 55 for the 2-33 with 2 occupants. We make an estimated allowance based on the wind speed and wind shear for the tow vehicle driver's initial groundspeed. From there we can make further adjusments for tow vehicle speed using radio communication or between flight debriefings as conditions may change. We never attempt ground launch with any downwind component in wind direction, even in what seem like very light winds on the ground. Any wind shear in a down wind launch will have a very negative effect on climb performance, which is not good if your runway lenghth is relatively short to begin with. "Tension controlled" launches as have been discussed in Soaring Magazine in winch launching articles would undoubtedly be ideal also for auto tows, if not so much for safety as for achieving maximum launch height dor the given runway length and wind conditions. However the tow vehicle determined airspeed target method seems to work well enough, and had a long record of use. Tension controlled auto towing would require much more complicated set ups and a lot more sophisticated testing than what seems practical for our club. We usually reserve auto towing for winter time amusement and skill expanding training in our club, along with a number of times when our only club tow plane has been down. we generally have not made a routine to have simultaineous ground launch and aero tow operations. We also have very little power traffic, limited to mostly our own fly in glidet pilot club members at our glider club owned field
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.