Letter from Jess Meyers

[Badwater Bill]

Jess uses AOL and can't post to the ng easily. He can, however, read
the posts. He just wrote this to me over email and asked that I pass
it on to this group.


Subject: Letter to Corky Scott
To:

Bill, a letter I sent to Corky this evening

----Jess

__________________________________________________ ___

Mr. Scott, my name is Jess Meyers of Belted Air. I understand all of
the trashing both ways. We bought the project from Glenn Smith and
Bill was flying it. Our insurance could not afford two pilots at the
time. Bill's valid points were taken, corrections made, and a long
test period was carried out. We did have sprockets that were broached
improperly, the units recalled. At the same time Gates belt factory
had traced problems, if you can believe this, to people sweating or
infusing a saline solution into the belt matrix. We have since
switched manufacturer's.

Mr. Phillips is one of a kind, and I'll be the first to admit that I
have questioned a lot of his judgment. We are still out on some things
but all in all he is an honest person. You don't have to guess where
you are with him. Please don't get upset with some of his rantings.
His wife did a very good job of photography for the Kitplanes article,
and when the air to air shoot was scheduled for the article his father
passed away and it became unavailable.

Mr. J.Muretta did what I would call a overview article. Not wanting to
carry on but if you or your friends are under 200 lbs and want to fly
in the plane we offer to have you bring your own GPS and come fly with
us anytime so you may draw your own conclusions.

Jess Meyers
Belted Air Power

[Bruce A. Frank]

This is an interesting letter from Jess, but un-necessary for any reason
I can see. Corky just re-posted a post BWB made years ago.

It doesn't appear that Corky has a problem with Jess' engine or PSRU.
Heck, Corky is using a Ford with a Blanton based PSRU.(certainly related
technology) All I can see going on is Corky being tarred for remembering
and then posting one of Bill's old comments.

I'd love to take that ride, but can't meet that 200 lb limit. 8^D

Badwater Bill wrote:
>
> Jess uses AOL and can't post to the ng easily. He can, however, read
> the posts. He just wrote this to me over email and asked that I pass
> it on to this group.
>
> Subject: Letter to Corky Scott
> To:
>
> Bill, a letter I sent to Corky this evening
>
> ----Jess
>
> __________________________________________________ ___
>
> Mr. Scott, my name is Jess Meyers of Belted Air. I understand all of
> the trashing both ways. We bought the project from Glenn Smith and
> Bill was flying it. Our insurance could not afford two pilots at the
> time. Bill's valid points were taken, corrections made, and a long
> test period was carried out. We did have sprockets that were broached
> improperly, the units recalled. At the same time Gates belt factory
> had traced problems, if you can believe this, to people sweating or
> infusing a saline solution into the belt matrix. We have since
> switched manufacturer's.
>
> Mr. Phillips is one of a kind, and I'll be the first to admit that I
> have questioned a lot of his judgment. We are still out on some things
> but all in all he is an honest person. You don't have to guess where
> you are with him. Please don't get upset with some of his rantings.
> His wife did a very good job of photography for the Kitplanes article,
> and when the air to air shoot was scheduled for the article his father
> passed away and it became unavailable.
>
> Mr. J.Muretta did what I would call a overview article. Not wanting to
> carry on but if you or your friends are under 200 lbs and want to fly
> in the plane we offer to have you bring your own GPS and come fly with
> us anytime so you may draw your own conclusions.
>
> Jess Meyers
> Belted Air Power

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:53:40 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

>Mr. Scott, my name is Jess Meyers of Belted Air. I understand all of
>the trashing both ways.

Jess, if you can read this newsgroup then you should know that the
trashing has NOT been both ways. At no time have I ever said anything
derogatory about your efforts with auto engines since you started with
the Buick engined Globe Swift. In fact I posted several positive
articles about it during the Lamar wars. After all, I am building a
Christavia Mk4 using a Blanton type Ford 3.8L V6 which is very similar
to the engine and layout you built. When it comes to alternate
engines for homebuilts, I have always, repeat always been the guy
debating the merits, not the implausibility of auto engines. Anyone
who has been in this group for a while knows that, and Bill should
too.

It's gratifying to know that you do not hold any ill will towards Bill
for the remarks he's made regarding the OMABP. That makes you a
magnanimous and forgiving guy.

I wish you further success in the future.

Corky Scott

[John]

Back in 1975 I weighed 225 lbs and cut out candy bars and regular soda's
but still drank beer and had regular US Navy meals (read high fat) I
started running 5 miles a day (about one hour) very slowly and in 2 months
I lost 55 lbs to 170 lbs overall. 29 Years later I weight 160 lbs and have
been running and enjoying life ever since!
John


>
> I walked 1.5 miles every night and cut out saturated fats and sodas (I was
> addicted to Pepsi) although I still drink diet sodas which could be
> another topic in itself. If you cut out 500 calories a day you can lose 1
> lb. a week, it is really easy to do.
>
> Jerry (My RV-6 performs much better now) Springer

[Stealth Pilot]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:45:46 GMT, "Bruce A. Frank"
> wrote:


>
>I'd love to take that ride, but can't meet that 200 lb limit. 8^D
>
Bruce it has taken me half a degree in nursing to get this all worked
out. so far I've lost nearly 10 kilos and my pilot's medicals are
getting easier. much easier.

your, my, everyone's body generates energy through the krebs cycle.
it can feed raw materials to the cycle from 3 sources.
sugars
fats
protein.

the body metabolises sugar first because it is easy, then it
metabolises fats and if none of the two are available it metabolises
protein for energy.

if you want to lose weight you need to reduce your fat intake and
increase your body's burn off of fat as an energy source.

most of us have too much sugar available in our systems for the body
ever to need to metabolise fats so the dietary intake is just stored
away for a rainy day. (you get bigger and bigger)

in my case I had all the factors in place for weight loss but didnt
lose a zot until I worked out that my sugar intake had to be reduced.
10 cups of coffee a day with white and two sugars, plus a coke or two
adds up to a small mountain of sugar each and every day.

ok to lose weight you need to reduce your sugar and fat intake.
you then need to exercise to burn off sufficient energy that the body
needs to metabolise fats to provide the needed energy.

using short muscles doesnt burn much energy but increases blood
pressure levels which has its own problems so arm exercises arent
recommended.
using the long muscles of your body burns more energy and does not
increase blood pressure as much.
so walking or swimming are the best exercises that you can engage in
to lose weight.

when you are using your muscles, use at a gentle pace keeps the
metabolism in the muscles aerobic which sees fat metabolism.
If you use your muscles so hard that they ache, the ache is caused by
the build up of lactic acid which signals that your body has switched
to anaerobic metabolism. during anaerobic metabolism no fat is
metabolised.

regular long walks at a pace which does not see muscle ache but
elevates your body metabolism so that at the end of the walk you are
just raising a sweat is just perfect for fat burn off.

regular weight loss involves a healthy diet, reduced sugar intake,
reduced fat intake and aerobic exercise of the long muscles of your
body. it is that easy.

it has taken me half of a 3 1/2 year degree in nursing to get it all
worked out. no hokum, no fad diets, nothing to buy.
I have 2 kilos to go and I am back to 73 kg from 84 kg.
(84kg is 184lb or 13 stone, 74 kilos is 11.5 stone.)

try it. you might just get a free aeroplane ride as a reward :-)

Stealth Pilot
Australia

[Jerry Springer]

Stealth Pilot wrote:


>
> regular long walks at a pace which does not see muscle ache but
> elevates your body metabolism so that at the end of the walk you are
> just raising a sweat is just perfect for fat burn off.
>
> regular weight loss involves a healthy diet, reduced sugar intake,
> reduced fat intake and aerobic exercise of the long muscles of your
> body. it is that easy.
>
> it has taken me half of a 3 1/2 year degree in nursing to get it all
> worked out. no hokum, no fad diets, nothing to buy.
> I have 2 kilos to go and I am back to 73 kg from 84 kg.
> (84kg is 184lb or 13 stone, 74 kilos is 11.5 stone.)
>
> try it. you might just get a free aeroplane ride as a reward :-)
>
> Stealth Pilot
> Australia
>
>

Stealth you are so right, I know from experience that what you say works. I lost
80 lbs over the last two years doing just what you say. Also Carbs need to be
watched as they turn to sugar. I am not talking about the extreme low carb diets
that Akins suggest, personally I think those are VERY dangerous diets to your
health.

I walked 1.5 miles every night and cut out saturated fats and sodas (I was
addicted to Pepsi) although I still drink diet sodas which could be another
topic in itself. If you cut out 500 calories a day you can lose 1 lb. a week,
it is really easy to do.

Jerry (My RV-6 performs much better now) Springer

[Jim Weir]

In 1991 I lost 200 pounds.

140 pounds of her, and 60 pounds of me. (AIDS = Aviation Induced Divorce
Syndrome)

{;-)


Jim




Jerry Springer >
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->I walked 1.5 miles every night and cut out saturated fats and sodas (I was
->addicted to Pepsi) although I still drink diet sodas which could be another
->topic in itself. If you cut out 500 calories a day you can lose 1 lb. a week,
->it is really easy to do.
->
->Jerry (My RV-6 performs much better now) Springer
->

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Matt Whiting]

Badwater Bill wrote:


> Mr. J.Muretta did what I would call a overview article. Not wanting to
> carry on but if you or your friends are under 200 lbs and want to fly
> in the plane we offer to have you bring your own GPS and come fly with
> us anytime so you may draw your own conclusions.
>
> Jess Meyers
> Belted Air Power

That's a bummer. I still weight 225, although I'm down from 235 and
working towards 210. I don't think I'll ever see 200 again... :-(


Matt

[Badwater Bill]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:55:41 -0400, Matt Whiting
> wrote:

>Badwater Bill wrote:
>
>
>> Mr. J.Muretta did what I would call a overview article. Not wanting to
>> carry on but if you or your friends are under 200 lbs and want to fly
>> in the plane we offer to have you bring your own GPS and come fly with
>> us anytime so you may draw your own conclusions.
>>
>> Jess Meyers
>> Belted Air Power
>
>That's a bummer. I still weight 225, although I'm down from 235 and
>working towards 210. I don't think I'll ever see 200 again... :-(
>
>
>Matt

Ahh, don't worry about it Matt. Come in the late autumn and they'll
download some fuel so you can fit your fat ass into it. My fat ass
test flew it for a long time and I weighed 230 when I did it.

In fact I talked with Jess last night and I think I'm going back on
the insurance. I'll take you for a ride when you come.

During flight-test, when I needed a data collector, I took Tom Jones.
Tom is a giant man in spirit but only weighs about 130 or so (that's
why the puke won so many motorcycle races in the olden days).

In fact Bill Harold and Tom are about the same size. Dr. Harold or
Tom easily fit into the thing with my gelatinous, bloated, fat ass in
the left seat. I'm sure that you'll fit fine.

Come on over here when the temps go back down and we'll get you up
even if I have to fly it.

Now, that's a concept. Here's the question:

Are YOU willing to fly with BWB as PIC? Do you have the guts? Do you
have the stamina? Hell, I might go berserk and take you to Miami on a
test flight....or maybe Costa Rica. Can you accept what might happen
to you? Are you The Man?

Only kidding. I think you are serious and you should examine this
firewall forward. I'll tell you one thing however, don't change any
of it. Build it just like Jess and Tom and Bill tell you to build it.
If you are a tinker-er and you want to screw with things, this is not
it. IF you build it as they tell you to build it, most likely it
will work fine. Don't modify anything. Go by the plans. They've
spent years perfecting all this stuff. Don't put your opinion into
the loop.

I say this because we've seen the whole spectrum of builders. I
talked with a guy today who's helping me with my Legacy. He told me
he overheard a conversation at Osh last year when a builder cornered
Burt Rutan and Mike Melville between booths as they were going to
lunch.

The guy asked his question of them both and Burt shook his head no,
"Build it exactly by the plans."

Then the guy says, "But if I cut this piece and do that what will
happen?"

Burt said, "Don't do that. Build it by the plans."

The guy came back with another question, sliding around the first
question with another concept and Burt said, "Build is EXACTLY as the
plans say to build it."

Then the guy stopped and thought for a moment and had another come
back, "What if I cut the skin and put in some foam and then E-glass it
to conform....."

Mike jumped in at that point and said, "Build it exactly as the plans
say to build it."

Then both Burt and Mike walked away knowing they had an idiot on their
hands.

Tom Jones heard Burt say to another individual, "Look you can do
anything you want to do in this category and go fly it. However, if
you modify it in any way that is not in accordance with the plans,
then it's YOURS, it's not my design."

I'm in a good mood tonight and I'm sort of philosophical while I'm in
this "Good" mood, so I'm going to give you guys some advice.

Don't ever modify anything from the plans if you build a kit or a
plans-built airplane. You don't know what the designer has done to
keep weight to a minimum and allow maximum strength for given part,
like a wing or a tail, etc. Don't modify anything. It's all been
CAD-CAM designed by computers and you don't have the thousands of
dollars (or hours) available to you to check all the scenarios of your
modification.

Another thing. If you strengthen a certain area you transfer load and
stress to that area. That is complicated to explain but let me try
just briefly. If you fix a 6 foot 1 inch diameter balsa-wood dowel to
a bench by clamping it's end to the bench, you might be able to put a
1pound weight out at the other end and the thing will flex and bow and
carry that load. This is because you are using the entire piece to
carry that load. If you clamp the same piece of wood so that only 4
inches protrude from the bench and you put a 1 pound weight on it, it
will shear off at the point where it meets the bench.

This is what happens when you abitrarily strengthen a certain area of
a wing or any other part of an airplane. You concentrate the loads to
that area.

Think of it this way: A willow bends in the wind. If you tie it down
a foot from the top of a branch, the wind might shear if off.

So, in building a homebuilt airplane, all this comes into play. Don't
second-guess what the computer calcs have done. Don't shore up one
area because YOU think it's weak there. It may be designed to be weak
at that position.

Harmonics is another issue. If you change things, you change the
resonance frequencies of the structure. That's the last thing you
would ever want to do.

So, BWB's advice for the day it DON'T CHANGE A ****ING THING. Build
the thing exactly like the designer and kit manufacturer tells you to
build it. After you build 50 of them then you might have a right to
have some input.

BWB

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 01:38:38 GMT, (Badwater
Bill) wrote:

>Don't ever modify anything from the plans if you build a kit or a
>plans-built airplane. You don't know what the designer has done to
>keep weight to a minimum and allow maximum strength for given part,
>like a wing or a tail, etc. Don't modify anything. It's all been
>CAD-CAM designed by computers and you don't have the thousands of
>dollars (or hours) available to you to check all the scenarios of your
>modification.

Right . . . unless it wasn't. Never say never. Take the Christavia
for instance, wasn't CAD-CAM designed, tube frame is laid out on the
concret floor with tape measure and chalk lines and is modified as
necessary depending on what you use for an engine. Designer even told
me where to lengthen the fuselage and by how much, give or take. He
admitted he over designed it on purpose. It's hell for stout because
of it, but WAY overbuilt.

Corky Scott

[Stealth Pilot]

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:51:08 GMT, Jerry Springer
> wrote:


>
>Stealth you are so right, I know from experience that what you say works. I lost
>80 lbs over the last two years doing just what you say. Also Carbs need to be
>watched as they turn to sugar. I am not talking about the extreme low carb diets
>that Akins suggest, personally I think those are VERY dangerous diets to your
>health.
>
>I walked 1.5 miles every night and cut out saturated fats and sodas (I was
>addicted to Pepsi) although I still drink diet sodas which could be another
>topic in itself. If you cut out 500 calories a day you can lose 1 lb. a week,
>it is really easy to do.
>
>Jerry (My RV-6 performs much better now) Springer
>

diet sodas are an interesting unknown as well.
the long term effects of that sugar substitute are just not known.
it is assumed to be safe. ....but so was thalidomide and diethyl
sylbestrol.

I brew my own ginger beer.
Stealth Pilot

[Mike Patterson]

On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 22:41:17 +0800, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:51:08 GMT, Jerry Springer
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Stealth you are so right, I know from experience that what you say works. I lost
>>80 lbs over the last two years doing just what you say. Also Carbs need to be
>>watched as they turn to sugar. I am not talking about the extreme low carb diets
>>that Akins suggest, personally I think those are VERY dangerous diets to your
>>health.
>>
>>I walked 1.5 miles every night and cut out saturated fats and sodas (I was
>>addicted to Pepsi) although I still drink diet sodas which could be another
>>topic in itself. If you cut out 500 calories a day you can lose 1 lb. a week,
>>it is really easy to do.
>>
>>Jerry (My RV-6 performs much better now) Springer
>>
>
>diet sodas are an interesting unknown as well.
>the long term effects of that sugar substitute are just not known.
>it is assumed to be safe. ....but so was thalidomide and diethyl
>sylbestrol.
>
>I brew my own ginger beer.
>Stealth Pilot

I know that one day a couple years ago I decided to go to diet soda,
and within 3 days I thought I was going into early Alzheimers. Would
put my keys on the table, turn around, and forget what I was doing and
where my keys went.

After a terrifying couple of days I figured it out and dropped off the
diet soda. A day later and I was back to my -usual- forgetful self.

Now I just don't drink sodas. Water, milk, OJ, and beer.


Mike Patterson
Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
"I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."

[Matt Whiting]

Badwater Bill wrote:

> Ahh, don't worry about it Matt. Come in the late autumn and they'll
> download some fuel so you can fit your fat ass into it. My fat ass
> test flew it for a long time and I weighed 230 when I did it.
>
> In fact I talked with Jess last night and I think I'm going back on
> the insurance. I'll take you for a ride when you come.
>
> During flight-test, when I needed a data collector, I took Tom Jones.
> Tom is a giant man in spirit but only weighs about 130 or so (that's
> why the puke won so many motorcycle races in the olden days).
>
> In fact Bill Harold and Tom are about the same size. Dr. Harold or
> Tom easily fit into the thing with my gelatinous, bloated, fat ass in
> the left seat. I'm sure that you'll fit fine.

I fit in the RV-6 demonstrator at Van's when I visited the factory
several years back. It isn't size that is the issue, it is weight. I'm
fairly muscular (paid my way through engineering school working as a
logger ... I'm not kidding!). I'm a fairly compact 225! :-)


> Come on over here when the temps go back down and we'll get you up
> even if I have to fly it.
>
> Now, that's a concept. Here's the question:
>
> Are YOU willing to fly with BWB as PIC? Do you have the guts? Do you
> have the stamina? Hell, I might go berserk and take you to Miami on a
> test flight....or maybe Costa Rica. Can you accept what might happen
> to you? Are you The Man?

Are you willing to fly with a card carrying NRA life member with a CC
permit who may be armed at any given time? :-)


> Only kidding. I think you are serious and you should examine this
> firewall forward. I'll tell you one thing however, don't change any
> of it. Build it just like Jess and Tom and Bill tell you to build it.
> If you are a tinker-er and you want to screw with things, this is not
> it. IF you build it as they tell you to build it, most likely it
> will work fine. Don't modify anything. Go by the plans. They've
> spent years perfecting all this stuff. Don't put your opinion into
> the loop.

Likewise. I am serious, but as I mentioned earlier, I won't be starting
for a few more years. I built a fairly expensive house four years ago
right before my company tanked (I work for a telecomm company) and my
stock went from $120/share to $1.60, and I now have a large mortgage to
pay off and looming college bills.


Matt

[JSoar]

Good topic. I have heard a rule of thumb for airplanes is that every
15 pounds is worth one horse power. So if you can knock 60 pounds off
your plane's gross take-off weight it would be like adding 4 hp, a
good percentage increase for an ultralight.

The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.

I weighed 220 pounds many years ago and thought it was mostly muscle.
Now I weigh an average of 165 pounds, and that muscle turned out to be
useless fat. I ride a bike 3 or 4 times a week for at least an hour,
or walk about the same in the winter. I watch very carefully what I
eat. Just enough protein, like a little bit of fish, no red meat, and
a lot of vegetables, fruit, cereal grains. No junk foods, candy, ice
cream, soda, etc.

It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
the 40's.

A word to the wise,
Jerry Booker

[Matt Whiting]

JSoar wrote:

> Good topic. I have heard a rule of thumb for airplanes is that every
> 15 pounds is worth one horse power. So if you can knock 60 pounds off
> your plane's gross take-off weight it would be like adding 4 hp, a
> good percentage increase for an ultralight.
>
> The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
> rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.

I agree with safest, but I'm not sure about easiest! :-)


Matt

[Rich S.]

"JSoar" > wrote in message
om...
> It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
> have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
> skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
> the 40's.

Jerry.............

I hate you.

Rich "South Beach - down 14 to 233" S.

[UltraJohn]

Sure it's called liposuction ;-)
John

Resting HR 38
Cholesterol 166
Normal blood pressure
49 years
run on average 75 miles a week
STILL HAD 98% BLOCKED CORINARY ARTERY!
One year anniversary tommorrow of having angioplasty and road back!
Hope to have medical back in another month!
John



Matt Whiting wrote:

>> The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
>> rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.
>
> I agree with safest, but I'm not sure about easiest! :-)
>
>
> Matt
>
>

[Jean-Paul Roy]

> Jerry.............
>
> I hate you.
lolllllllllllllllllllll
"Rich S." > wrote in message
...
> "JSoar" > wrote in message
> om...
> > It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
> > have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
> > skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
> > the 40's.
>
> Jerry.............
>
> I hate you.
>
> Rich "South Beach - down 14 to 233" S.
>
>

[bryan chaisone]

Mike Patterson > wrote in message >...
> I know that one day a couple years ago I decided to go to diet soda,
> and within 3 days I thought I was going into early Alzheimers. Would
> put my keys on the table, turn around, and forget what I was doing and
> where my keys went.
>
> After a terrifying couple of days I figured it out and dropped off the
> diet soda. A day later and I was back to my -usual- forgetful self.
>
> Now I just don't drink sodas. Water, milk, OJ, and beer.
>
>
> Mike Patterson
> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
> "I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."

Let me tell you all about Bob and Bill. Bob jogs past Bill's house
every morning and every now and then he would ask Bill to join him.
Bill would just sit on the front porch, lift his beer and toast Bob as
he jogs by. Then one day Bill asked Bob's wife why Bob hasn't been
jogging by. Bob's wife said, "He got run over by a bus while
jogging".

Have you heard of Siskel and Eibert? I thought the fat one would die
first, I would have bet my house on it. Well, the skinny one died
first, of heart attack, I believe.

Being healthy and in shape is good, but it is no guaranty that you'll
live longer.

I'm about forty five pounds over weight. I am starting to do
something about it, but only because I want a better quality of life,
not because I think I will live longer. I have been through enough
"close calls" that I am convinced that when it is time to go, it is
time to go, and that's that.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Stealth Pilot]

On 7 Jul 2004 22:38:20 -0700, (bryan chaisone)
wrote:

>Mike Patterson > wrote in message >...
>> I know that one day a couple years ago I decided to go to diet soda,
>> and within 3 days I thought I was going into early Alzheimers. Would
>> put my keys on the table, turn around, and forget what I was doing and
>> where my keys went.
>>
>> After a terrifying couple of days I figured it out and dropped off the
>> diet soda. A day later and I was back to my -usual- forgetful self.
>>
>> Now I just don't drink sodas. Water, milk, OJ, and beer.
>>
that is an interesting observation. must remember it.
>>
>> Mike Patterson
>> Please remove the spamtrap to email me.
>> "I always wanted to be somebody. I should have been more specific..."
>
snip
>
>Being healthy and in shape is good, but it is no guaranty that you'll
>live longer.
>
>I'm about forty five pounds over weight. I am starting to do
>something about it, but only because I want a better quality of life,
>not because I think I will live longer. I have been through enough
>"close calls" that I am convinced that when it is time to go, it is
>time to go, and that's that.
>
>Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

there is an interesting research paper regarding diabetics. it points
out that losing weight and increasing in weight both statistically
shortened life in the sample, but wanting to lose weight without
losing weight is associated with increases in longevity.
had me intrigued for ages until the penny dropped. healthy living has
immediate benefits while weight changes take much longer.

jogging is not as good as walking as a form of exercise. one of our
local hospitals regularly fills a ward with joggers needing knee
replacements.

getting the weight off in the long term is important for pilots
though. adipose tissue is an endocrine gland. having massive over
secretion of the hormones from fatty tissue seems to be a precursor to
type two diabetes. the consequences of diabetes apart from pilot
medical problems are that you suffer impaired peripheral circulation.
you dont want to go down that path ever unless you have a fascination
for amputations.

longevity? I think I'll be happy to make my last flights at 103 and
then pack it in. :-)
Stealth Pilot

[Clay]

For every 6 pounds of weight loss you can add one more gallon of fuel
to your aircraft.

UltraJohn > wrote in message . net>...
> Sure it's called liposuction ;-)
> John
>
> Resting HR 38
> Cholesterol 166
> Normal blood pressure
> 49 years
> run on average 75 miles a week
> STILL HAD 98% BLOCKED CORINARY ARTERY!
> One year anniversary tommorrow of having angioplasty and road back!
> Hope to have medical back in another month!
> John
>
>
>
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> >> The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
> >> rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.
> >
> > I agree with safest, but I'm not sure about easiest! :-)
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >

[[email protected]]

Hmm, eat the right foods in moderation, don't snack on sugar filled
junk, don't drink carbonated sugar water (soda), excersize and you
will weigh what you should weigh for your height. This is news?

I remember a doctor being interviewed on 60 Minutes some five years
ago, he was a cardiologist and had studied obesity and obese people
and their eating/ excersize habits. He thought he knew how most
overweight people got that way. His radical revelation was that obese
people just ate too much, ate the wrong stuff and didn't excersize
enough. He shrugged, said "sorry, but it's really that simple." He
added that the percentage of folks who actually had some sort of
glandular problem causing them to be overweight was so miniscule, it
could hardly be tabulated.

Corky Scott

[[email protected]]

On 7 Jul 2004 22:38:20 -0700, (bryan chaisone)
wrote:

>I'm about forty five pounds over weight. I am starting to do
>something about it, but only because I want a better quality of life

That's reason enough.

Corky Scott

[Rich S.]

> wrote in message
...
> Hmm, eat the right foods in moderation, don't snack on sugar filled
> junk, don't drink carbonated sugar water (soda), excersize and you
> will weigh what you should weigh for your height. This is news?
>
> I remember a doctor being interviewed on 60 Minutes some five years
> ago, he was a cardiologist and had studied obesity and obese people
> and their eating/ excersize habits. He thought he knew how most
> overweight people got that way. His radical revelation was that obese
> people just ate too much, ate the wrong stuff and didn't excersize
> enough. He shrugged, said "sorry, but it's really that simple." He
> added that the percentage of folks who actually had some sort of
> glandular problem causing them to be overweight was so miniscule, it
> could hardly be tabulated.

Hmm.......... Perhaps it is him who is simple. Or outdated. I suggest
reading recent literature on gene effects of obesity. There is a good
layman's article in (IIRC) Reader's Digest last month on this subject. It is
more complicated than simply lack of will power or eating habits.

Rich "It ain't my fault!" S.
:o)

[bryan chaisone]

This reminds me of my younger years, maybe sixth or seventh grade.
There were five or six of us friends in or click. We had BMX bikes
that we would ride after school and tinker with them as often as we
could. One of the boys was a "rich kid". He had all the after market
parts on his bike to get it as light as possible. I worked three
paper routes to pay for mine. He would always make fun of my cheap
Huffy while he had a Mongoose (very expensive at the time) with all
the add-ons and lighter after market replacement parts. I could
always outride hime though. I had the benefit of NOT having access to
all the Ho Hos and Twinkies one could eat. To cut it short, the
combined (gross) weight of my light body and my heavy bike was much
lighter than his heavier body and his lighter bike. I also peddled
that bike every morning delivering two paper routes before school
(Washington Post) and one paper route after school (Washington Star),
which kept me fit. Wish I was fit now. I'm about forty five lbs over
right now.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

(JSoar) wrote in message >...
> Good topic. I have heard a rule of thumb for airplanes is that every
> 15 pounds is worth one horse power. So if you can knock 60 pounds off
> your plane's gross take-off weight it would be like adding 4 hp, a
> good percentage increase for an ultralight.
>
> The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
> rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.
>
> I weighed 220 pounds many years ago and thought it was mostly muscle.
> Now I weigh an average of 165 pounds, and that muscle turned out to be
> useless fat. I ride a bike 3 or 4 times a week for at least an hour,
> or walk about the same in the winter. I watch very carefully what I
> eat. Just enough protein, like a little bit of fish, no red meat, and
> a lot of vegetables, fruit, cereal grains. No junk foods, candy, ice
> cream, soda, etc.
>
> It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
> have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
> skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
> the 40's.
>
> A word to the wise,
> Jerry Booker

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hmm, eat the right foods in moderation, don't snack on sugar filled
>>junk, don't drink carbonated sugar water (soda), excersize and you
>>will weigh what you should weigh for your height. This is news?
>>
>>I remember a doctor being interviewed on 60 Minutes some five years
>>ago, he was a cardiologist and had studied obesity and obese people
>>and their eating/ excersize habits. He thought he knew how most
>>overweight people got that way. His radical revelation was that obese
>>people just ate too much, ate the wrong stuff and didn't excersize
>>enough. He shrugged, said "sorry, but it's really that simple." He
>>added that the percentage of folks who actually had some sort of
>>glandular problem causing them to be overweight was so miniscule, it
>>could hardly be tabulated.
>
>
> Hmm.......... Perhaps it is him who is simple. Or outdated. I suggest
> reading recent literature on gene effects of obesity. There is a good
> layman's article in (IIRC) Reader's Digest last month on this subject. It is
> more complicated than simply lack of will power or eating habits.
>
> Rich "It ain't my fault!" S.
> :o)
>
>

So you are saying that our genetics have changed dramatically in the
last 40 years? I don't buy it. Our rate of obesity has increased
dramatically in the lat 40 years, but I don't think we've mutated all
that much genetically. Then again, I'm not a geneticist... :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

bryan chaisone wrote:

> This reminds me of my younger years, maybe sixth or seventh grade.
> There were five or six of us friends in or click. We had BMX bikes
> that we would ride after school and tinker with them as often as we
> could. One of the boys was a "rich kid". He had all the after market
> parts on his bike to get it as light as possible. I worked three
> paper routes to pay for mine. He would always make fun of my cheap
> Huffy while he had a Mongoose (very expensive at the time) with all
> the add-ons and lighter after market replacement parts. I could
> always outride hime though. I had the benefit of NOT having access to
> all the Ho Hos and Twinkies one could eat. To cut it short, the
> combined (gross) weight of my light body and my heavy bike was much
> lighter than his heavier body and his lighter bike. I also peddled
> that bike every morning delivering two paper routes before school
> (Washington Post) and one paper route after school (Washington Star),
> which kept me fit. Wish I was fit now. I'm about forty five lbs over
> right now.

Well, Bryan, might want to try the bike approach again. I just bought
two new bikes for me and my wife ... and I can now afford GOOD bikes,
which I couldn't when I was young just as you couldn't. I bought two
top of the line Fuji comfort bikes. Riding is actually just as much fun
now as it was then. I get saddle sore much faster, but I rode a 30 mile
ride last Saturday in the hills of northern PA and it didn't kill me.
Although, I thought a couple of times that my heart was going to pop out
of my chest and run away... :-)


Matt

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:17:31 -0700, Rich S. wrote:

> layman's article in (IIRC) Reader's Digest last month on this subject. It is
> more complicated than simply lack of will power or eating habits.

I don't think it's that complex. I heard on the radio today that
basically 2/3's of the population is overweight. Now there can't be that
many genetic/medical problems because it doesn't occur in a lot of other
countries.

I'll give you a personal example. As of Jan 1 2004 I weighed 215 lbs and
had a blood pressure that was around 138/88 and as of this date I weigh
168 lbs with a blood pressure of 112/72 on average. Want to know my
secret, it wasn't some fancy diet or medicine or genetic modification to
fix natures mistake. I cut out the sweets during the day and stopped
drinking soda like I had been.

I did a quick off hand calculation of my caloric intake then and now.
That gave me a daily total of around 3500 to 4000 calories each
and every day, then.

I now eat the serving sizes suggested and for dinner I try to limit my
deserts to one slice of cake if I have it, and try to end up with a total
intake of around around 1800 - 2000 calories each day.

I just had a physical done last Friday and for the most part I'm in good
health even though I still have a higher cholesterol level of around 225.
My ratio of good to bad is excellent and in fact it's better than average
so the doctor doesn't seem overly concerned about it, but he would like to
see it lower if I can do it. Of that I'm not sure how because I'm not
eating foods that would make it high. He did talk about overweight
problems in general being due to over eating and the way I fixed it was
how it should be done. PS, my so called diet was started under advice of
the medical profession, a dietitian suggested a simple balanced meal and
it worked.

Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll see
why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.

That is the meat of the problem if you ask me and my observations confirm
it. Yes, some people have a real problem and can't help it, that's what
the RD article suggested. It didn't say 66 percent of our population had
real medical problems. That figure came from a CBS radio broadcast today
on obesity in our nation, take it for what it's worth because it came from
CBS.

Calories are calories regardless of where they come from and if you
have too many you're going to gain weight, it's that simple.

The war is not yet won. Although I have lost all the weight I intend on,
now I must maintain it and I fear that's the hardest part to come. I feel
better now than I did at the beginning of the year and my knees hurt less,
so I figure I did a good thing by curbing my desire for sweets which is
where most of calories came from.

[Bill Daniels]

Matt, you're describing "Fork-in-Mouth" disease.


"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote in message
ray.net...
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:17:31 -0700, Rich S. wrote:
>
> > layman's article in (IIRC) Reader's Digest last month on this subject.
It is
> > more complicated than simply lack of will power or eating habits.
>
> I don't think it's that complex. I heard on the radio today that
> basically 2/3's of the population is overweight. Now there can't be that
> many genetic/medical problems because it doesn't occur in a lot of other
> countries.
>
> I'll give you a personal example. As of Jan 1 2004 I weighed 215 lbs and
> had a blood pressure that was around 138/88 and as of this date I weigh
> 168 lbs with a blood pressure of 112/72 on average. Want to know my
> secret, it wasn't some fancy diet or medicine or genetic modification to
> fix natures mistake. I cut out the sweets during the day and stopped
> drinking soda like I had been.
>
> I did a quick off hand calculation of my caloric intake then and now.
> That gave me a daily total of around 3500 to 4000 calories each
> and every day, then.
>
> I now eat the serving sizes suggested and for dinner I try to limit my
> deserts to one slice of cake if I have it, and try to end up with a total
> intake of around around 1800 - 2000 calories each day.
>
> I just had a physical done last Friday and for the most part I'm in good
> health even though I still have a higher cholesterol level of around 225.
> My ratio of good to bad is excellent and in fact it's better than average
> so the doctor doesn't seem overly concerned about it, but he would like to
> see it lower if I can do it. Of that I'm not sure how because I'm not
> eating foods that would make it high. He did talk about overweight
> problems in general being due to over eating and the way I fixed it was
> how it should be done. PS, my so called diet was started under advice of
> the medical profession, a dietitian suggested a simple balanced meal and
> it worked.
>
> Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
> them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
> watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
> one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll see
> why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.
>
> That is the meat of the problem if you ask me and my observations confirm
> it. Yes, some people have a real problem and can't help it, that's what
> the RD article suggested. It didn't say 66 percent of our population had
> real medical problems. That figure came from a CBS radio broadcast today
> on obesity in our nation, take it for what it's worth because it came from
> CBS.
>
> Calories are calories regardless of where they come from and if you
> have too many you're going to gain weight, it's that simple.
>
> The war is not yet won. Although I have lost all the weight I intend on,
> now I must maintain it and I fear that's the hardest part to come. I feel
> better now than I did at the beginning of the year and my knees hurt less,
> so I figure I did a good thing by curbing my desire for sweets which is
> where most of calories came from.
>

[[email protected]]

wrote:

> His radical revelation was that obese
> people just ate too much, ate the wrong stuff and didn't excersize
> enough. He shrugged, said "sorry, but it's really that simple."

While eating too much most certainly is a factor, its not the only
factor. I'm not a doctor, but I have seen numerous very obese people
eating like birds and I'm sitting there eating like a pig. By this
doctor's opinion, I should be three or four times as big as the fat
people, but I'm not. I don't think they had any problems with their
glands, just a low metabolism.

BP = high normal
Heart rate = 100 at rest.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Badwater Bill]

you? Are you The Man?
>
>Are you willing to fly with a card carrying NRA life member with a CC
>permit who may be armed at any given time? :-)

I"m a lifetime member of the NRA myself. Bring the guns with you.
I'll carry my hogleg too.

>
>
>> Only kidding. I think you are serious and you should examine this
>> firewall forward. I'll tell you one thing however, don't change any
>> of it. Build it just like Jess and Tom and Bill tell you to build it.
>> If you are a tinker-er and you want to screw with things, this is not
>> it. IF you build it as they tell you to build it, most likely it
>> will work fine. Don't modify anything. Go by the plans. They've
>> spent years perfecting all this stuff. Don't put your opinion into
>> the loop.
>
>Likewise. I am serious, but as I mentioned earlier, I won't be starting
>for a few more years. I built a fairly expensive house four years ago
>right before my company tanked (I work for a telecomm company) and my
>stock went from $120/share to $1.60, and I now have a large mortgage to
>pay off and looming college bills.
>
>
>Matt

****, Sorry to hear that. When you want a ride, just come over
anyway. I think Jess may just put me back on the insurance so I can
demo the thing. Come on over anytime once that happens.
BWB

[Richard Lamb]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> So you are saying that our genetics have changed dramatically in the
> last 40 years? I don't buy it. Our rate of obesity has increased
> dramatically in the lat 40 years, but I don't think we've mutated all
> that much genetically. Then again, I'm not a geneticist... :-)
>
> Matt

That's not quite correct - at least according to my doctor.
They call it Factor-X diabetes.

I have hardly any genetic risk for diabetes, but have developed
Type-1 anyway.

The cause is generally explained as the massive amount of sugar
and alcohol that have been introduced into our diets since about
1940 or so.

The doctor prescribed an oral med (Metformin HCL, in my case) and
over the first year I shed 50 pounds with very little change in diet
or activity. I'm now 196 pounds, which is not too bad at 6'3.

If you are overweight (and by media reports, most of us are seriously
so), might be wise to get screened for Diabetes.

Especially if your diet has included a lot of soda or alcohol...


Richard

[John]

wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:18:27 -0500, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> > wrote:
>
>>Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
>>them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
>>watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
>>one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll see
>>why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.
>
> In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
> month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
> this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
> healthy.
>
> Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
> 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
> would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
> of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
> single item on the menu at some point.
>
> Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
> health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
> nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
> well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
> his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
> general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
> (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
> just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
> skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
>
> After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
> liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
> weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
> McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
> the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
> nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>
> McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>
> Corky Scott


Good post except the 8 year part. It's more like 2-3 months (2000-3000
calories a day for normal person. 8 Years would give you 51 calories a day
and the average person has a Basal Matabolosim (ie the number of calories
you burn in 1 day if your slept the whole time) of around 1500 calories.


Check out this online calculator for your Basal Metabolism and daily caloric
needs.

http://www.room42.com/nutrition/basal.shtml

John
PS approximately 100 calories burned for every mile run or walked.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:18:27 -0500, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> wrote:

>Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
>them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
>watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
>one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll see
>why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.

In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
healthy.

Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
single item on the menu at some point.

Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
(His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."

After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.

McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.

Corky Scott

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 01:12:01 GMT, wrote:

>While eating too much most certainly is a factor, its not the only
>factor. I'm not a doctor, but I have seen numerous very obese people
>eating like birds and I'm sitting there eating like a pig. By this
>doctor's opinion, I should be three or four times as big as the fat
>people, but I'm not. I don't think they had any problems with their
>glands, just a low metabolism.

Perhaps, but you are only seeing one portion of one meal. The body
literally cannot become obese without the necessary fuel. Somehow
somewhere these people are picking up excess calories.

I know lots of people who successfully maintain a calorie count all
day, and then go home and eat a quart of ice cream, or several slices
of cake or both just before bed. Not only is the cake and ice cream
excessively rich in calories, it's consumed before sleeping when of
course no physical activity occurs that might ameliorate the caloric
intake.

How many overweight people do you see in the Sudan?

Corky Scott

[Darrel Toepfer]

wrote:

> In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
> month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
> this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
> healthy.
>
> Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
> 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
> would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
> of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
> single item on the menu at some point.
>
> Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
> health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
> nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
> well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
> his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
> general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
> (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
> just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
> skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
>
> After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
> liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
> weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
> McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
> the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
> nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>
> McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.

You have to be a clown, to eat at McDonald's...

[bryan chaisone]

That's a great idea Matt! I have a mountain bike and a bike trail
that runs right by my back yard. I just haven't taken advantage of
those two facts. My brother bought the bike for me, and so far I've
only ridden it to the pool with my two girls, which is only about half
a mile. My girls would swim and I would just take a nap on the pool
lounger. How patheic.

I used to ride, senior year high school about twenty years ago, from
Herndon, VA to DC, lock up the bike, have lunch somewhere or see the
museums and ride back. about fifty miles round trip. I sure miss
those days. The weather is nice right now. I outta here, gonna ride
down the trail a little.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Matt Whiting > wrote in message
> Well, Bryan, might want to try the bike approach again. I just bought
> two new bikes for me and my wife ... and I can now afford GOOD bikes,
> which I couldn't when I was young just as you couldn't. I bought two
> top of the line Fuji comfort bikes. Riding is actually just as much fun
> now as it was then. I get saddle sore much faster, but I rode a 30 mile
> ride last Saturday in the hills of northern PA and it didn't kill me.
> Although, I thought a couple of times that my heart was going to pop out
> of my chest and run away... :-)
>
>
> Matt

[Darrel Toepfer]

wrote:

> How many overweight people do you see in the Sudan?

How many are having a quart of ice cream and cake, before bed?

[bryan chaisone]

Both my mom and dad are diabetics. My grandfather lived to be 104 by
the way and smoked the whole time since he was fourteen. I am hoping
that this thing skipps a generation or two.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Stealth Pilot > wrote in message
> there is an interesting research paper regarding diabetics. it points
> out that losing weight and increasing in weight both statistically
> shortened life in the sample, but wanting to lose weight without
> losing weight is associated with increases in longevity.
> had me intrigued for ages until the penny dropped. healthy living has
> immediate benefits while weight changes take much longer.
>
> jogging is not as good as walking as a form of exercise. one of our
> local hospitals regularly fills a ward with joggers needing knee
> replacements.
>
> getting the weight off in the long term is important for pilots
> though. adipose tissue is an endocrine gland. having massive over
> secretion of the hormones from fatty tissue seems to be a precursor to
> type two diabetes. the consequences of diabetes apart from pilot
> medical problems are that you suffer impaired peripheral circulation.
> you dont want to go down that path ever unless you have a fascination
> for amputations.
>
> longevity? I think I'll be happy to make my last flights at 103 and
> then pack it in. :-)
> Stealth Pilot

[B25flyer]

>How many overweight people do you see in the Sudan?
>

Only fat ass General Isaih Paul standing on the ramp in Juba telling me that I
had to bring back $300 worth of booze from the duty free store in Nairobi, or I
might have "problems" on the next trip with paperwork.

Walt

[Stealth Pilot]

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 03:11:16 GMT, Richard Lamb >
wrote:

>Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>> So you are saying that our genetics have changed dramatically in the
>> last 40 years? I don't buy it. Our rate of obesity has increased
>> dramatically in the lat 40 years, but I don't think we've mutated all
>> that much genetically. Then again, I'm not a geneticist... :-)
>>
>> Matt
>
>That's not quite correct - at least according to my doctor.
>They call it Factor-X diabetes.
>
>I have hardly any genetic risk for diabetes, but have developed
>Type-1 anyway.
>
type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disease.
the beta cells in the pancreas are a type of secreting nerve cell
different from those around them. the immune system occasionally gets
it wrong and removes them.

in australia type 1 means no pilots licence but in the usa you have
about 250 pilots who manage the problem in flight so well through
continual monitoring that they have their licences.

amazing to see that after the hoover fiasco.

Stealth Pilot

[[email protected]]

Darrel Toepfer > wrote:


> > McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>
> You have to be a clown, to eat at McDonald's...

Eat at Burger King instead.

I practice a low carb lifestyle. As long as I skip the fries, drink,
and bun, I can eat as many whoppers as I can afford - and still lose
weight. Soda is OK as long as its Diet Rite. Diet Rite is the only
mainstream soda that is carb free AND aspartame free.

Low carb has kicked the traditional (low cal/low fat) folks in the
butt.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Matt Whiting]

Richard Lamb wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>So you are saying that our genetics have changed dramatically in the
>>last 40 years? I don't buy it. Our rate of obesity has increased
>>dramatically in the lat 40 years, but I don't think we've mutated all
>>that much genetically. Then again, I'm not a geneticist... :-)
>>
>>Matt
>
>
> That's not quite correct - at least according to my doctor.
> They call it Factor-X diabetes.
>
> I have hardly any genetic risk for diabetes, but have developed
> Type-1 anyway.
>
> The cause is generally explained as the massive amount of sugar
> and alcohol that have been introduced into our diets since about
> 1940 or so.
>
> The doctor prescribed an oral med (Metformin HCL, in my case) and
> over the first year I shed 50 pounds with very little change in diet
> or activity. I'm now 196 pounds, which is not too bad at 6'3.
>
> If you are overweight (and by media reports, most of us are seriously
> so), might be wise to get screened for Diabetes.
>
> Especially if your diet has included a lot of soda or alcohol...
>
>
> Richard

I don't understand your point. You say I'm not correct, but then what
you say pretty much supports what I said, that it isn't genetics that is
to blame for our obesity problem in America.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:18:27 -0500, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
>>them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
>>watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
>>one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll see
>>why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.
>
>
> In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
> month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
> this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
> healthy.
>
> Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
> 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
> would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
> of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
> single item on the menu at some point.
>
> Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
> health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
> nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
> well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
> his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
> general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
> (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
> just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
> skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
>
> After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
> liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
> weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
> McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
> the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
> nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>
> McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>
> Corky Scott

Sorry, Corky, but I don't buy this story even though I've read about it
before. I have no idea what else this guy may have done during the
month, but it is clear he was out to make Micky D look bad so he may
have been taking all sorts of drugs to make him have the problems he
had. And 5,000 calories a day for 30 days is 150,000 calories according
to my calculator. Eight years is 2,920 days, not counting leap years.
150,000 calories over 8 years is 51.4 calories per day. I don't want
any association with any nutritionist who would recommend that!

This story just doesn't pass the smell test. I ate almost exclusively
at McDonalds for three months when I was in college back in the 70s and
had to spend a semester in a motel with no cooking facilities. I didn't
gain a bit of weight and had no health problems at all.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
>> month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
>> this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
>> healthy.
>>
>> Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
>> 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
>> would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
>> of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
>> single item on the menu at some point.
>>
>> Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
>> health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
>> nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
>> well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
>> his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
>> general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
>> (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
>> just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
>> skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
>>
>> After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
>> liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
>> weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
>> McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
>> the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
>> nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>>
>> McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>
>
> You have to be a clown, to eat at McDonald's...

And you have to be an idiot to believe the above story, especially the
part about eating eight YEARS worth of calories in 30 days.


Matt

[Darrel Toepfer]

Matt Whiting wrote:

>> You have to be a clown, to eat at McDonald's...
>
> And you have to be an idiot to believe the above story, especially the
> part about eating eight YEARS worth of calories in 30 days.

CLOWN - McDonald's.... Get it? Guess not...

[Matt Whiting]

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>> You have to be a clown, to eat at McDonald's...
>>
>>
>> And you have to be an idiot to believe the above story, especially the
>> part about eating eight YEARS worth of calories in 30 days.
>
>
> CLOWN - McDonald's.... Get it? Guess not...

Uh, yes, I got it ... and was launching from it. :-) Get it?

Matt

[Richard Lamb]

Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> Richard Lamb wrote:
>
> > Matt Whiting wrote:
> >
> >>So you are saying that our genetics have changed dramatically in the
> >>last 40 years? I don't buy it. Our rate of obesity has increased
> >>dramatically in the lat 40 years, but I don't think we've mutated all
> >>that much genetically. Then again, I'm not a geneticist... :-)
> >>
> >>Matt
> >
> >
> > That's not quite correct - at least according to my doctor.
> > They call it Factor-X diabetes.
> >
> > I have hardly any genetic risk for diabetes, but have developed
> > Type-1 anyway.
> >
> > The cause is generally explained as the massive amount of sugar
> > and alcohol that have been introduced into our diets since about
> > 1940 or so.
> >
> > The doctor prescribed an oral med (Metformin HCL, in my case) and
> > over the first year I shed 50 pounds with very little change in diet
> > or activity. I'm now 196 pounds, which is not too bad at 6'3.
> >
> > If you are overweight (and by media reports, most of us are seriously
> > so), might be wise to get screened for Diabetes.
> >
> > Especially if your diet has included a lot of soda or alcohol...
> >
> >
> > Richard
>
> I don't understand your point. You say I'm not correct, but then what
> you say pretty much supports what I said, that it isn't genetics that is
> to blame for our obesity problem in America.
>
> Matt

Sorry Matt.

I was just saying that I thought genetics have _not_ changed.
But I see that was your point as well.

Richard

[Morgans]

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote

>
> in australia type 1 means no pilots licence but in the usa you have
> about 250 pilots who manage the problem in flight so well through
> continual monitoring that they have their licences.
>
> amazing to see that after the hoover fiasco.
>
> Stealth Pilot

I have a niece that has type one. It is amazing, the advances that have
been made. She has a pump that lets a controlled constant dose of insulin
into her body, then before every meal, she checks her blood, then calculates
what she will be eating, takes into account where her sugar level was, then
programs the pump to release just the amount needed for the meal. She is
almost always right on the right blood sugar level.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 7/5/2004

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:12:59 +0000, n4mwd.dont.spam.me wrote:

> Low carb has kicked the traditional (low cal/low fat) folks in the
> butt.

Actually it hasn't. I saw on TV where they did a small study and had one
group go on the low carb diet and another on low fat. The low carb group
initially lost weight faster, but then hit a point where they slowed down
so much so that the low fat group caught up with them.

At the end of the study, the low carb group as a whole gained back most of
their weight, the low fat group gained much less. Both groups regained
weight.

My theory and my doctors is that the best diet is the one where you eat
the correct amount of calories from the proper food groups and not do
these fancy name diets.

In the time I lost 45 lbs, the guy at work on the Atkins diet has lost
around 20 lbs. We both cheat a bit now and then, but my caloric intake is
closer to normal than his, so I lost more weight faster than he did, but
still slow enough to make my doc happy. You don't want to lose it too
fast for some reason. I don't know why, my doctor just said don't lose it
too fast and gave me guidelines.

[Jean-Paul Roy]

And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane
"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:18:27 -0500, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
> >>them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
> >>watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
> >>one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll
see
> >>why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.
> >
> >
> > In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
> > month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
> > this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
> > healthy.
> >
> > Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
> > 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
> > would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
> > of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
> > single item on the menu at some point.
> >
> > Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
> > health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
> > nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
> > well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
> > his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
> > general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
> > (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
> > just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
> > skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
> >
> > After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
> > liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
> > weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
> > McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
> > the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
> > nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
> >
> > McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
> >
> > Corky Scott
>
> Sorry, Corky, but I don't buy this story even though I've read about it
> before. I have no idea what else this guy may have done during the
> month, but it is clear he was out to make Micky D look bad so he may
> have been taking all sorts of drugs to make him have the problems he
> had. And 5,000 calories a day for 30 days is 150,000 calories according
> to my calculator. Eight years is 2,920 days, not counting leap years.
> 150,000 calories over 8 years is 51.4 calories per day. I don't want
> any association with any nutritionist who would recommend that!
>
> This story just doesn't pass the smell test. I ate almost exclusively
> at McDonalds for three months when I was in college back in the 70s and
> had to spend a semester in a motel with no cooking facilities. I didn't
> gain a bit of weight and had no health problems at all.
>
>
> Matt
>

[Jean-Paul Roy]

And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane
"bryan chaisone" > wrote in message
om...
> That's a great idea Matt! I have a mountain bike and a bike trail
> that runs right by my back yard. I just haven't taken advantage of
> those two facts. My brother bought the bike for me, and so far I've
> only ridden it to the pool with my two girls, which is only about half
> a mile. My girls would swim and I would just take a nap on the pool
> lounger. How patheic.
>
> I used to ride, senior year high school about twenty years ago, from
> Herndon, VA to DC, lock up the bike, have lunch somewhere or see the
> museums and ride back. about fifty miles round trip. I sure miss
> those days. The weather is nice right now. I outta here, gonna ride
> down the trail a little.
>
> Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone
>
> Matt Whiting > wrote in message
> > Well, Bryan, might want to try the bike approach again. I just bought
> > two new bikes for me and my wife ... and I can now afford GOOD bikes,
> > which I couldn't when I was young just as you couldn't. I bought two
> > top of the line Fuji comfort bikes. Riding is actually just as much fun
> > now as it was then. I get saddle sore much faster, but I rode a 30 mile
> > ride last Saturday in the hills of northern PA and it didn't kill me.
> > Although, I thought a couple of times that my heart was going to pop out
> > of my chest and run away... :-)
> >
> >
> > Matt

[Ben Haas]

(Badwater Bill) wrote in message >...
> Jess uses AOL and can't post to the ng easily. He can, however, read
> the posts. He just wrote this to me over email and asked that I pass
> it on to this group.
>
>
> Subject: Letter to Corky Scott
> To:
>
> Bill, a letter I sent to Corky this evening
>
> ----Jess
>
> __________________________________________________ ___
>
> Mr. Scott, my name is Jess Meyers of Belted Air. I understand all of
> the trashing both ways. We bought the project from Glenn Smith and
> Bill was flying it. Our insurance could not afford two pilots at the
> time. Bill's valid points were taken, corrections made, and a long
> test period was carried out. We did have sprockets that were broached
> improperly, the units recalled. At the same time Gates belt factory
> had traced problems, if you can believe this, to people sweating or
> infusing a saline solution into the belt matrix. We have since
> switched manufacturer's.
>
> Mr. Phillips is one of a kind, and I'll be the first to admit that I
> have questioned a lot of his judgment. We are still out on some things
> but all in all he is an honest person. You don't have to guess where
> you are with him. Please don't get upset with some of his rantings.
> His wife did a very good job of photography for the Kitplanes article,
> and when the air to air shoot was scheduled for the article his father
> passed away and it became unavailable.
>
> Mr. J.Muretta did what I would call a overview article. Not wanting to
> carry on but if you or your friends are under 200 lbs and want to fly
> in the plane we offer to have you bring your own GPS and come fly with
> us anytime so you may draw your own conclusions.
>
> Jess Meyers
> Belted Air Power

Jess, Tom and Bill are three of the most honest guys in the Homebuild
business. I am running one of their redrives on my Zenith 801 and
putting about twice the power through it they intended it to take. I
did have a few quirks in the early going but the PSRU is well designed
and bulletproof. I would not hesitate to use another one in a new york
minute.

Ben Haas N801BH.

[Ernest Christley]

Jean-Paul Roy wrote:
> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

Dude, you need to subscribe to rec.aviation.fetish for that conversation.



--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber

[Jerry Springer]

If you don't think this topic is revelent to pilots and airplanes yo have a
F***ing lot to learn.

Jean-Paul Roy wrote:
> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 19:18:27 -0500, "Matthew P. Cummings"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Watch the people around you the next time you eat out. I'll bet you see
>>>>them overeat by a HUGE amount. Go to KFC, Hardee's, McDonals, etc. and
>>>>watch. You'll see the majority of people consume over 1000 calories at
>>>>one sitting, imagine them doing the same for 2 more meals. Now you'll
>
> see
>
>>>>why eating is why we're overweight as a nation.
>>>
>>>
>>>In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
>>>month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
>>>this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
>>>healthy.
>>>
>>>Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
>>>30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
>>>would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
>>>of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
>>>single item on the menu at some point.
>>>
>>>Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
>>>health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
>>>nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
>>>well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
>>>his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
>>>general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
>>>(His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
>>>just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
>>>skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."
>>>
>>>After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
>>>liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
>>>weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
>>>McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
>>>the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
>>>nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>>>
>>>McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>>>
>>>Corky Scott
>>
>>Sorry, Corky, but I don't buy this story even though I've read about it
>>before. I have no idea what else this guy may have done during the
>>month, but it is clear he was out to make Micky D look bad so he may
>>have been taking all sorts of drugs to make him have the problems he
>>had. And 5,000 calories a day for 30 days is 150,000 calories according
>>to my calculator. Eight years is 2,920 days, not counting leap years.
>>150,000 calories over 8 years is 51.4 calories per day. I don't want
>>any association with any nutritionist who would recommend that!
>>
>>This story just doesn't pass the smell test. I ate almost exclusively
>>at McDonalds for three months when I was in college back in the 70s and
>>had to spend a semester in a motel with no cooking facilities. I didn't
>>gain a bit of weight and had no health problems at all.
>>
>>
>>Matt
>>
>
>
>

[Richard Isakson]

"Jerry Springer" wrote ...
> If you don't think this topic is revelent to pilots and airplanes yo have
a
> F***ing lot to learn.

I wish you guys would stop talking about this. You're making me feel guilty
about this absolutely delicious piece of apple pie.

Rich

[Jerry Springer]

Richard Isakson wrote:
> "Jerry Springer" wrote ...
>
>>If you don't think this topic is revelent to pilots and airplanes yo have
>
> a
>
>>F***ing lot to learn.
>
>
> I wish you guys would stop talking about this. You're making me feel guilty
> about this absolutely delicious piece of apple pie.
>
> Rich
>
>
Hi Rich,
Missed you at Arlington this year.

Jerry

[Richard Isakson]

"Jerry Springer" wrote ...
> Hi Rich,
> Missed you at Arlington this year.

My truck's broke. The timing chain finally gave up at 300,000 miles.( Ford
F150, 351M engine) I'm having so much fun.

Rich

[Ray Audette]

" Not only in research, but also in the everyday world of politics and
economics, we would all be better off if more people realized that simple
nonlinear systems do not nececessarily posses simple dynamical properties."
Biologist Robert Mays from his "messianic" paper in Nature (
1976) "The Mathmatical Intuition"

Thus greenhouse warming may produce another ice age rather than a warmer
climate ( according to many scientists the more likely senario) and women
who consume more calories weigh less than women who practice calorie
reduction (according to the 125,000 women studied by Harvard). Likewise,
calorie burning exercise has been shown to have no effect on weight. Long
term studies of low calorie diet plans show a success rate of 2% ( the same
2% that become anorexix or bulemic on such programs). The average person on
such a program actually gained 15% after two years in these studies.

That so many "weight loss experts" show such innumeracy ( and refuse to
accept my chalange to a swim suit competition) means a great opportunity for
a class action lawsuit similar to the one won by the FTC against the false
claims made by leading calorie reductions plans. Although this legal action
only resulted in these companies adding small print disclaimers to their ads
( results not typical, etc ), I feel feel billions of dollars are still on
the table.

In a resent study adolesent offered an unlimmited buffet ate 30% fewer
calories when offered a high fat selection than a low fat one. Nothing
produces saity faster than fat.

Ray Audette
Author "NeanderThin"
www.NeanderThin.com

[Jerry Springer]

Ray Audette wrote:

> " Not only in research, but also in the everyday world of politics and
> economics, we would all be better off if more people realized that simple
> nonlinear systems do not nececessarily posses simple dynamical properties."
> Biologist Robert Mays from his "messianic" paper in Nature (
> 1976) "The Mathmatical Intuition"
>
> Thus greenhouse warming may produce another ice age rather than a warmer
> climate ( according to many scientists the more likely senario) and women
> who consume more calories weigh less than women who practice calorie
> reduction (according to the 125,000 women studied by Harvard). Likewise,
> calorie burning exercise has been shown to have no effect on weight. Long
> term studies of low calorie diet plans show a success rate of 2% ( the same
> 2% that become anorexix or bulemic on such programs). The average person on
> such a program actually gained 15% after two years in these studies.
>
> That so many "weight loss experts" show such innumeracy ( and refuse to
> accept my chalange to a swim suit competition) means a great opportunity for
> a class action lawsuit similar to the one won by the FTC against the false
> claims made by leading calorie reductions plans. Although this legal action
> only resulted in these companies adding small print disclaimers to their ads
> ( results not typical, etc ), I feel feel billions of dollars are still on
> the table.
>
> In a resent study adolesent offered an unlimmited buffet ate 30% fewer
> calories when offered a high fat selection than a low fat one. Nothing
> produces saity faster than fat.
>
> Ray Audette
> Author "NeanderThin"
> www.NeanderThin.com

Oh BS!!!!!!

[Morgans]

"Richard Isakson" > wrote in message
...
> "Jerry Springer" wrote ...
> > Hi Rich,
> > Missed you at Arlington this year.
>
> My truck's broke. The timing chain finally gave up at 300,000 miles.(
Ford
> F150, 351M engine) I'm having so much fun.
>
> Rich
>
>
Ahhhh, ever hear of preventative maintenance? Being a Ford, you are lucky
to have gotten that much out of it! <g>

Congratulations on getting one that far. I've got a Chevy van that has
219,000, and coming to Osh, a round trip of 2,000 miles, with a gut full of
my unit's luggage and camping gear onboard, and a pull behind grill. (knock
on wood)

To me, about 150,000 is the about the limit for oil pumps and timing chains,
cause if either of those two go south, the rest is not far behind.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 7/5/2004

[Morgans]

"Jerry Springer" > wrote
>
> Oh BS!!!!!!
>
Actually, there is a good deal of evidence to suggest that after a few more
degrees temp rise, the icecaps melting will change the turnover of ocean
water, disrupting ocean currents, then heading back towards an ice age.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 7/5/2004

[Pete Schaefer]

Hmmm....better get some skis for the airplane. Glacier tour anyone?


"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
> Actually, there is a good deal of evidence to suggest that after a few
more
> degrees temp rise, the icecaps melting will change the turnover of ocean
> water, disrupting ocean currents, then heading back towards an ice age.

[Barnyard BOb -]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 23:27:15 -0400, "Jean-Paul Roy"
> wrote:

>And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here's some super straight scoop --

1. YOU do not have to read this topic.
2. Understand that YOU can only control YOU.
3. Walk some airplane talk or be just another ****in hypocrite.

P.S.
Cross posting sux.

-PLONK-


Barnyard BOb -
The more people I meet,
the more I love my dog
and George Carlin humor.

[Matt Whiting]

Jean-Paul Roy wrote:

> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

Except that you were supposed to stay in your cave until your vocabulary
developed beyond words of only four letters in length.


Matt

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 23:27:15 -0400, Jean-Paul Roy wrote:

> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

While I haven't had the pleasure to do that, I guess you have and enjoy
that activity. They say too each their own.

In other matters, pilot weight is directly related to flying for numerous
reasons. For example diabetes is at higher risk, Heart Attacks and
Strokes are at higher risk. The type of plane you can fly is partly
determined by how much you weigh.

So, I believe this thread to be talking about planes because of the above
factors.

[[email protected]]

"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote:

> On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 21:12:59 +0000, n4mwd.dont.spam.me wrote:
>
> > Low carb has kicked the traditional (low cal/low fat) folks in the
> > butt.
>
> Actually it hasn't. I saw on TV where they did a small study and had one
> group go on the low carb diet and another on low fat. The low carb group
> initially lost weight faster, but then hit a point where they slowed down
> so much so that the low fat group caught up with them.

Everybody is different. My personal experience has been this: I went
on a reduced carb diet a few years ago. Because it was reduced carb
and not low carb, it took me a year to lose 30 pounds. However, when
I got off the diet, it took two years to gain it back. Then someone
convinced me to try the Weight Watcher's Winning Points diet. Its a
low cal, low fat diet relatively high in carbs. I lost 20 pounds in
30 days. By the next 30 days, I had gained it all back.

Low carb is a lifestyle and not just a diet. Whatever diet you get
on, keeping the same weight means staying on the diet or a form of it
for the rest of your life. Knowing that, its best to pick a realistic
diet that you can be comfortable with and will be able to keep the
cheating to a minimum. There is no way I could do that with the point
diet.

Now I will excuse myself and go eat a great big dish of zero carb ice
cream - all legal on a low carb diet.

Dennis.



Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Rich S.]

I scrounged through the recycle bin until I found last month's Reader's
Digest (July) and re-read the article on "Beating the Urge to Eat" by Peter
Jaret. Several interesting items caught my attention.

1. A hormone called leptin signals the brain to supress appetite - "Hey,
Dude, quit eating. You're full!".

2. 85 to 90 percent of obese people DO NOT have a deficiency of leptin.
Their bodies have become resistant to its effects. This is much like Type II
diabetes where the body has plenty of insulin but is insulin resistant.

3. An excess of triglycerides may contribute to leptin resistance.

4. An enzyme called SCD-1 - controlled by leptin - is used by the body to
create fat cells. Delete the gene that makes SCD-1 (in mice) and they can
pig out on Twinkies and beer without gaining weight.

5. Another culprit that may make you chubby is a virus, AD-36.

6. Base level activity can vary up to 500 calories/day. Notice how some
people constantly twitch? Low or high metabolism is hereditary, but they're
working on metabolism boosting substances.

The article closes with, "Patients used to blame being overweight on glands
and hormones, and we doctors would say, 'It's not hormones, it's calories,'
" says Banks. "Now we know hormones *are* involved." . . ."People can diet
and lose 10 or 15 pounds. But real obesity isn't a willpower problem,. It's
a medical problem."

Environment, heredity, hormones, cholesterols, viruses - all may play a
part. There is no simple answer to weight control. Sure, you can force a
human to starve to death, but that is not an answer. We need a way for
people to control weight that is workable. I'm currently fighting the fat
with the South Beach diet. It's probably no better or worse than Atkins,
Weight Watchers or Jenny Craig. But any time you starting trying to control
what, and how much you eat, it's bound to make a difference. I'm down
fifteen pounds in a month. I might gain it back and then again I might lose
fifteen more. But *right now* I am fifteen pounds less. My feet thank me.

Rich S.

[bryan chaisone]

Dude,

Some of the people in thse groups have been talking on the web here
for over ten years. I've been lurking here at least that long and
have recently started to join in. This is a community of people with
same interest. After awhile we start caring about each other and
started talking about other things. Our relationship started here, so
we are talking here, sometimes about things other than flying. We
have grown to know each other. Some have met and hung out in real
life. Some see each other once or twice a year at flying related
gatherings. Just relax and enjoy.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

"Jean-Paul Roy" > wrote in message
> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

[bryan chaisone]

New Lingo for an Old Priest

There was an old priest who got sick of all the people in his parish
who kept confessing to adultery. One Sunday, in the pulpit, he said,
"If I hear one more person confess to adultery, I'll quit!"

Everyone liked him, so they came up with a code word. Someone who had
committed adultery would say instead that they had "fallen."

This seemed to satisfy the old priest and things went well until the
priest passed away at a ripe, old age.

A few days after the new priest arrived, he visited the mayor of the
town and seemed very concerned.

"Mayor, you have to do something about the sidewalks in town. When
people come into the confessional, they keep telling me they've
fallen."

The mayor started to laugh, realizing that no one had told the new
priest about the code word. But, before he could explain, the priest
shook an accusing finger at him and shouted, "I don't know what you're
laughing about, because your wife has already fallen three times this
week!"

"Jean-Paul Roy" > wrote in message
> And to think we were supposed to talk about ****in airplane

Its about having fun and getting to know one another. Relax and
enjoy.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[bryan chaisone]

I'd like to get a sample of that.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

Stealth Pilot > wrote in message
> I brew my own ginger beer.
> Stealth Pilot

[pacplyer]

wrote <snip>
>
> In the film "Supersize me", director Morgan Spurlock spends just one
> month eating at McDonalds *ONLY*, to see what would happen. He got
> this bright idea after listening to McDonalds tout their food as being
> healthy.
>
> Doctors he consulted thought that he could not damage himself in only
> 30 days, they were nearly mistaken. The stipulations were that he
> would have to accept the suggestion to "supersize" the meal or portion
> of the meal if suggested by the counter attendant, and try every
> single item on the menu at some point.
>
> Here's a blurb from a review: "Spurlock starts out the picture of
> health, a strapping 6-foot-2 and 185 pounds. Three doctors and a
> nutritionist, who reappear throughout, examine him and attest to his
> well being. But within a few days he's vomiting out of the window of
> his car. And it's downhill from there. Spurlock's body goes through a
> general deterioration that surprises even his doctors in its rapidity.
> (His girlfriend, a vegan chef, is beside herself.) Gaining weight is
> just the outward sign: His liver becomes toxic, his cholesterol
> skyrockets, his libido sags, he gets headaches and becomes depressed."


These are also all symptoms of being a flight instructor. (and you
thought he was barfing because of your bad flying!)


>
> After 30 days, he had gained 25 lbs and was suffering from abnormal
> liver functions. He had to detox on a strict Vegan diet to loose the
> weight and regain normal liver functions. While he was eating at
> McDonalds only, he was consuming 5,000 calories a day, or more. By
> the end of the month, he'd consumed as many calories as most
> nutritionists recommend people eat in 8 years.
>
> McDonalds of course, was unhappy with the film.
>
> Corky Scott


Yep, standard GA pilot diet. At least a flight instructor's sleep
cycles aren't screwed up on top of this. We should sue McDonalds the
same way Reynold's Tobacco was sued. Maybe they manipulate
cholesterol the same way Reynolds was manipulating nicotine! They
get you pumped up with those greasy fries, then when it's time to eat
again, your arteries cry out for their next fix just to keep the
plaque wall consistant.

*******s!

pac

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:

> I scrounged through the recycle bin until I found last month's Reader's
> Digest (July) and re-read the article on "Beating the Urge to Eat" by Peter
> Jaret. Several interesting items caught my attention.
>
> 1. A hormone called leptin signals the brain to supress appetite - "Hey,
> Dude, quit eating. You're full!".
>
> 2. 85 to 90 percent of obese people DO NOT have a deficiency of leptin.
> Their bodies have become resistant to its effects. This is much like Type II
> diabetes where the body has plenty of insulin but is insulin resistant.
>
> 3. An excess of triglycerides may contribute to leptin resistance.
>
> 4. An enzyme called SCD-1 - controlled by leptin - is used by the body to
> create fat cells. Delete the gene that makes SCD-1 (in mice) and they can
> pig out on Twinkies and beer without gaining weight.
>
> 5. Another culprit that may make you chubby is a virus, AD-36.
>
> 6. Base level activity can vary up to 500 calories/day. Notice how some
> people constantly twitch? Low or high metabolism is hereditary, but they're
> working on metabolism boosting substances.
>
> The article closes with, "Patients used to blame being overweight on glands
> and hormones, and we doctors would say, 'It's not hormones, it's calories,'
> " says Banks. "Now we know hormones *are* involved." . . ."People can diet
> and lose 10 or 15 pounds. But real obesity isn't a willpower problem,. It's
> a medical problem."

I still don't buy it. If it is a medical problem, why did it just occur
in the last 20-30 years and not 500 or 1000 years ago? I believe it is
our sedentary lifestyle combined with simply eating for recreation
rather than sustenance.


Matt

[Fr. John Elledge]

Hey, now! You've gone from preaching to meddling!

Your portly pastor,
Fr. John

"JSoar" > wrote in message
om...
> Good topic. I have heard a rule of thumb for airplanes is that every
> 15 pounds is worth one horse power. So if you can knock 60 pounds off
> your plane's gross take-off weight it would be like adding 4 hp, a
> good percentage increase for an ultralight.
>
> The safest and easiest gross take-off weight you could possibly get
> rid of is the ugly fat around your gut.
>
> I weighed 220 pounds many years ago and thought it was mostly muscle.
> Now I weigh an average of 165 pounds, and that muscle turned out to be
> useless fat. I ride a bike 3 or 4 times a week for at least an hour,
> or walk about the same in the winter. I watch very carefully what I
> eat. Just enough protein, like a little bit of fish, no red meat, and
> a lot of vegetables, fruit, cereal grains. No junk foods, candy, ice
> cream, soda, etc.
>
> It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
> have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
> skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
> the 40's.
>
> A word to the wise,
> Jerry Booker

[Rich S.]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> I still don't buy it. If it is a medical problem, why did it just occur
> in the last 20-30 years and not 500 or 1000 years ago? I believe it is
> our sedentary lifestyle combined with simply eating for recreation
> rather than sustenance.

Well Matt, you must have some definitive evidence for your firmly held
belief. I would be glad to read about it. Perhaps you could give us some
reference, assuming it is not a divine revelation. :-)

Rich "Willing to listen" S.

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:

> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I still don't buy it. If it is a medical problem, why did it just occur
>>in the last 20-30 years and not 500 or 1000 years ago? I believe it is
>>our sedentary lifestyle combined with simply eating for recreation
>>rather than sustenance.
>
>
> Well Matt, you must have some definitive evidence for your firmly held
> belief. I would be glad to read about it. Perhaps you could give us some
> reference, assuming it is not a divine revelation. :-)

Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.

Also, our society in general seems to be much less inclined to take
personal responsibility for anything and wants to blame someone else for
all of their ills. Look at the proliferation of law suits regarding
insane things like spilling coffee in your lap, getting fat on Oreos,
smoking cigarettes, etc. I think obesity is the same way. People
simply are eating too much (myself included) and exercising too little
(again, myself included) and that is why we are fat. However, few want
to admit that and take the action required to address it. It is much
easier to blame something or someone else.

I'm trying to address it and having some success. I joined a health
club 6 months ago and began a weight and cardio routine. I have been
slacking a little now that it is summer, however, I've been adding
bicycling. I rode 25 miles yesterday over hilly PA roads (took nearly
two hours). I've lost about 14 lbs. in 6 months, which is painfully
slow to me, but my doctor suggested that 2 lbs. a month is about right
and lets your body slowly adapt to the new weight. Like he said, "You
didn't gain the weight in 6 months so you shouldn't expect to lose it in
6 months."

Matt

[Barnyard BOb -]

>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.

>Matt
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My observations over time...


1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....

YOU WEAR IT.


2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.


3. My doctor sez....

Put whatever you desire on your plate,
then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.



Barnyard BOb -

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
> kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
> farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
> jobs, etc.

All true, but how do you explain skinny people that are sedentary and
don't diet? Although rare by comparison, they do exist in measurable
numbers.

I know a woman who is about 40 years old who, to this day, constantly
has to show ID to buy any kind of alcoholic beverage. She looks like
a 16 year old girl. She diets, but it is a special diet to try to
GAIN weight. She has as much trouble gaining as most everybody else
has losing. She doesn't have anorexia or the like, she's just plain
skinny.

There is no question that a sedentary lifestyle is a factor, but its
not the only factor. The odds are, most of the people reading this
know of a person similar to the woman described above.

Dennis.




Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 08:46:21 -0700, Rich S. wrote:

> and lose 10 or 15 pounds. But real obesity isn't a willpower problem,. It's
> a medical problem."

You'll notice the above statement, that's the key to understanding to
entire article. I'm not saying there aren't people who have a real
medical problem, but I am saying that 2/3's of our population do not
have a real medical problem.

As has been pointed out, keeping the weight off is a lifestyle change not
a diet. I know that and even though my official diet is ended I still
maintain my standards for eating and right now I'm trying to figure out
how many calories to add so that I maintain my weight and not gain it
back. I can live with my diet because it's healthy and merely requires me
to reduce my sweet tooth during the day. No extra work is needed beyond
eating the suggested portion sizes.

The one thing my Doctor told me that makes sense, those that lose the
weight slowly over time do better in maintaining it vs those who lose it
quickly by some fad diet. The why is simple, one is a lifestyle change,
the other is a quick fix that as soon as you remove the fix the weight
comes back.

[BllFs6]

>4. An enzyme called SCD-1 - controlled by leptin - is used by the body to
>create fat cells. Delete the gene that makes SCD-1 (in mice) and they can
>pig out on Twinkies and beer without gaining weight.

Haaaaa!

Thats me to a "T"

Eat, drink ANYTHING I want and never gain a pound!

Eat (your low carb) hearts out guys :)

Of course looking like a mouse doesnt help the dating scene though :)

take care

Blll

[Richard Lamb]

Barnyard BOb - wrote:
>
> My observations over time...
>
> 1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.
>
> 2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>
> 3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>
> Barnyard BOb -

that's a keeper...

[RobertR237]

>
>> Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>> kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>> farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>> jobs, etc.
>
>All true, but how do you explain skinny people that are sedentary and
>don't diet? Although rare by comparison, they do exist in measurable
>numbers.
>

Metabolisim among other things.

>I know a woman who is about 40 years old who, to this day, constantly
>has to show ID to buy any kind of alcoholic beverage. She looks like
>a 16 year old girl. She diets, but it is a special diet to try to
>GAIN weight. She has as much trouble gaining as most everybody else
>has losing. She doesn't have anorexia or the like, she's just plain
>skinny.
>

There are medical exceptions to every rule but by and large, the obesity we are
experiencing as a nation is a direct result of eating habits and lifestyle.

>There is no question that a sedentary lifestyle is a factor, but its
>not the only factor. The odds are, most of the people reading this
>know of a person similar to the woman described above.
>
>Dennis.

I not only know of a person who was similar, I was one. I could eat anything
and all of everything I wanted and could not gain weight until I got into my
mid 30's. I then slowly started gaining weight. Now, I must watch what and
how I eat or I would be grossly overweight in no time. I also know of people
who are overweight in spite of eating reasonably and having an active life
style. But the vast majority of the overweight people I know are simply
unwilling to make the changes in their eating and lifestyle needed to keep
their weight under control.

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Rich S.]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
> kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
> farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
> jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
> genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
<snip>

Oh Yeah! We're the FIRST generation to have Michael Jackson! :0) :-)

Seriously, though I'm not disputing that environmental factors are
important. At the same time I cannot discount the other factors the article.
Those other things: genetic disposition to different metabolic rates, leptin
resistance, leptin levels, increased triglycerides, a virus previously
unknown - may have always been there and are just now being investigated.

If the changes you mention have come in the last 30 to 40 years, they may be
the "last straw" - not the "only straw".

I don't want to stray into social issues such as the trend to assign blame.
I don't think discussion of that would be productive whether I agree with
you or not. Likewise with the subject Mr. Reed raises about "the vast
majority of the overweight people I know are simply
unwilling to make the changes in their eating and lifestyle needed . . ." I
am interested in seeing further research done which will facilitate the
changes necessary for that "vast majority" (myself included) enabling them
to *become* willing.

Fifteen years ago, thanks to the help of nicotine patches, I quit a
thirty-year smoking habit. It is likely that I would have failed without the
patch. Let us fight the overweight epidemic with all of our weapons and
find new ones. Let's not give up on that vast majority by labeling them weak
or unwilling. There may or not be a patch for them, but why not look for
one?

I gotta go get some coffee. I just reread what I wrote am I'm not even sure
what I said. Mebbe you can figger out what I mean, though.

Ciao,
Rich S.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Barnyard BOb - says...

>My observations over time...
>
>
>1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.
>
>
>2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>
>
>3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.

You forgot one Unka Bob ..."all you eat goes to your stomach" along with,
" from a distance food seems far away" oops that's two... :-)

See ya

Neefoo Chuck

[Bill Daniels]

"Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
>
> >Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
> >kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
> >farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
> >jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
> >genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
>
> >Matt
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> My observations over time...
>
>
> 1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.
>
>
> 2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>
>
> 3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb -
>

My doctor said that whatever part of the body gets used the most gets the
biggest. If you sit at a computer all day, your butt gets big.

Bill Daniels

[Matt Whiting]

Barnyard BOb - wrote:

>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
>>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
>
>
>>Matt
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> My observations over time...
>
>
> 1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.

Yes, it really is a pretty simple energy/mass balance problem at the core.


> 2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.

True, but exercise also increases muscle mass and muscle consumes more
calories even after the exercise is over so you gain beyond just what
you burn during the exercise period.


> 3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.

Yep, that is roughly my approach. I haven't dramatically changed my
diet insofar as composition is concerned (I don't believe in low-fat,
low-carb, or any other fad diet), but am trying to reduce portion sizes
(not by 50% though) and cut back on the junk food. I still simply must
have my evening dish of ice cream though!


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>>jobs, etc.
>
>
> All true, but how do you explain skinny people that are sedentary and
> don't diet? Although rare by comparison, they do exist in measurable
> numbers.

I was talking about the GENERAL obesity problem in the US, not any
particular person. Sure, there are all sorts of medical conditions that
can cause weight gain or loss. I never said otherwise.


> I know a woman who is about 40 years old who, to this day, constantly
> has to show ID to buy any kind of alcoholic beverage. She looks like
> a 16 year old girl. She diets, but it is a special diet to try to
> GAIN weight. She has as much trouble gaining as most everybody else
> has losing. She doesn't have anorexia or the like, she's just plain
> skinny.

Sure, I know people like that. And if you look at what they eat during
the day, they simply don't eat enough to ovecome what they burn. This
is simply chemistry and physics. The calories just don't disappear into
thin air. I'll bet you a steak dinner that she isn't eating 3,000
calories a day. The only "diet" you need to gain weight is a diet where
you eat more than your body consumes. I would hope that her doctors
have ruled out any medical condition that would cause her food to not be
broken down properly in her stomach or absorbed properly through her
intestines. Obviously, if there is a medical problem like that, then
changing diet probably won't have much affect.


> There is no question that a sedentary lifestyle is a factor, but its
> not the only factor. The odds are, most of the people reading this
> know of a person similar to the woman described above.

Gee, Dennis, where did I ever say it was the only factor?


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:

> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
>>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
>
> <snip>
>
> Oh Yeah! We're the FIRST generation to have Michael Jackson! :0) :-)


Ha, ha, ha... True enough, but I don't consider surgery to be genetic! :-)


> Seriously, though I'm not disputing that environmental factors are
> important. At the same time I cannot discount the other factors the article.
> Those other things: genetic disposition to different metabolic rates, leptin
> resistance, leptin levels, increased triglycerides, a virus previously
> unknown - may have always been there and are just now being investigated.
>
> If the changes you mention have come in the last 30 to 40 years, they may be
> the "last straw" - not the "only straw".

I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
factor by far. If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.


> I don't want to stray into social issues such as the trend to assign blame.
> I don't think discussion of that would be productive whether I agree with
> you or not. Likewise with the subject Mr. Reed raises about "the vast
> majority of the overweight people I know are simply
> unwilling to make the changes in their eating and lifestyle needed . . ." I
> am interested in seeing further research done which will facilitate the
> changes necessary for that "vast majority" (myself included) enabling them
> to *become* willing.

The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
burn many calories! :-)


> Fifteen years ago, thanks to the help of nicotine patches, I quit a
> thirty-year smoking habit. It is likely that I would have failed without the
> patch. Let us fight the overweight epidemic with all of our weapons and
> find new ones. Let's not give up on that vast majority by labeling them weak
> or unwilling. There may or not be a patch for them, but why not look for
> one?

My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
choices and investing some work. I don't watch much TV at all anymore,
but one of the few people on the tube I have any respect for is Dr.
Phil. He's the first one in a long time to routinely tell people to
look in the mirror to see both the source of their problems and the
solution.


> I gotta go get some coffee. I just reread what I wrote am I'm not even sure
> what I said. Mebbe you can figger out what I mean, though.

I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree. You
are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
disagree.

I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Bill Daniels wrote:

> "Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have fewer
>>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs, service
>>>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
>>>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
>>
>>>Matt
>>
>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>My observations over time...
>>
>>
>>1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>>
>> YOU WEAR IT.
>>
>>
>>2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
>> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>>
>>
>>3. My doctor sez....
>>
>> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
>> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>>
>>
>>
>>Barnyard BOb -
>>
>
>
> My doctor said that whatever part of the body gets used the most gets the
> biggest. If you sit at a computer all day, your butt gets big.

Do your eyes get bit also? :-)


Matt

[Bill Daniels]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Daniels wrote:
>
> > "Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
> >>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have
fewer
> >>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs,
service
> >>>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
> >>>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
> >>
> >>>Matt
> >>
> >>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >>My observations over time...
> >>
> >>
> >>1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
> >>
> >> YOU WEAR IT.
> >>
> >>
> >>2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> >> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
> >>
> >>
> >>3. My doctor sez....
> >>
> >> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> >> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Barnyard BOb -
> >>
> >
> >
> > My doctor said that whatever part of the body gets used the most gets
the
> > biggest. If you sit at a computer all day, your butt gets big.
>
> Do your eyes get bit also? :-)
>
>
> Matt
>

40 years ago the captain of my ship hit on a solution to the expanding
waistlines of some of the crew.

He ordered the hatches to the mess decks dogged and locked leaving only the
18" diameter scuttle holes. If you could skinny through the holes, you
could eat. If not, you could report to the ships doctor for a special diet
and exercise. Of course, you could also starve.

One of my Chief Petty Officers was heard to say after consulting a chart of
height vs. desired weight, "I am NOT too heavy, I'm just 6 inches too
short - it's height discrimination."

Bill Daniels

[pacplyer]

(Ray Audette) wrote in message >...
> " Not only in research, but also in the everyday world of politics and
> economics, we would all be better off if more people realized that simple
> nonlinear systems do not nececessarily posses simple dynamical properties."
> Biologist Robert Mays from his "messianic" paper in Nature (
> 1976) "The Mathmatical Intuition"
>
> Thus greenhouse warming may produce another ice age rather than a warmer
> climate ( according to many scientists the more likely senario) and women
> who consume more calories weigh less than women who practice calorie
> reduction (according to the 125,000 women studied by Harvard).

No **** Sherlock, since only fat women with bad genetic metabolism
jump into these "calorie reduction" programs. "There are lies, damn
lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain. As with most complex systems:
It's usually a combination of factors that yields the result i.e.
(not just one root cause.) Some pilot's are genetically predisposed
to be "widebodies." But then pushing Big-Mac-Attacks in their faces
every five miles down the highway with a billboard or a towering
lighted sign can't help either. Corporate America lying to them by
saying the food is now x percent more heathy and hoping they won't see
the ten year extention on this promise is in my opinion: criminal.

pacplyer

[pacplyer]

(Ray Audette) wrote in message >...
> " Not only in research, but also in the everyday world of politics and
> economics, we would all be better off if more people realized that simple
> nonlinear systems do not nececessarily posses simple dynamical properties."
> Biologist Robert Mays from his "messianic" paper in Nature (
> 1976) "The Mathmatical Intuition"
>
> Thus greenhouse warming may produce another ice age rather than a warmer
> climate <snip>


Headed for an Ice Age? Good! We need one since the Ross Ice Shelf is
getting paper thin and world's oceans are rising. The last time we
listened to these enviromental nuts who try to micromanage such
complex systems as the global environment, we polluted all our
drinking water with their cure-all MTBE. This cleaner-burning
super-long molecule just never breaks down in the environment, so it's
going to be wrapping itself around your chromosomes for the rest of
your life; and we don't know what kind of cancer or other problems
that's going to produce. Environmental fixes are just like Michael
Jackson's nose surgeries: if he would have just left it alone, it
would still be there. Anyone who falls for these over-simplified
diets and magic environmental bullets deserves to loose face (sorry
for the bad pun.) I enjoyed Stealth Pilot's logical insights on the
Kreb's cycle, however. Therein lies the key to maintaining your
medical.

The environment has been recovering itself from vast volcanic and
asteroid impacts for millions of years (drastic global temperature
events.) I say we slash the budget for environmental studies and
divert those funds into efforts of population control. You just can't
keep reproducing young lads who look up into the beatiful blue sky and
the more accessible ribbon of highway, and expect all of them to be
eco-nuts who are content just to recycle garbage and look out the
window at the sky their grandfathers used to fly magnificent machines
in. The very act of sitting in those houses has deforested much of
this earth I have flown over in my twenty-year career thus far. Ever
see what happens to bacteria in a closed bottle? Ever heard of Easter
Island?

Green weenies are a simple-minded lot IMHO. They try to hawk bandaids
and snake oil to a world that needs a fierce dose of reality about the
dire consequences of unchecked reproduction. Re-reading I see that
was Ray's point. So I agree with his MacDucks "fine print" atrocity
conclusion; just not his statistics.

Pac "combustible engine" plyer

[pacplyer]

Barnyard BOb - > wrote
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> My observations over time...
>
>
> 1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.
>
>
> 2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>
>
> 3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb -

Stunning. Impossible, but Stunning.

pac

[Rich S.]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
> factor by far.

Faith without "a shred of evidence" is wonderful.

If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
> have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
> decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.

I never asserted that.

> The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
> because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
> to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
> whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
> you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
> burn many calories! :-)

Life is rarely simple.

> My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
> looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
> people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
> choices and investing some work.

No sense using the saw. Just beat it off with the hammer. If it was good
enough fer dad, it's good enough fer me.

> I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
> exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree.

Nope. I think you said that.

> You are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
> rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
> disagree.

That may be one way to phrase it. I would liken it to the choice a surgeon
makes when he chooses to use anaesthetic to perform an operation, rather
than just saw the leg off. Yeah, mebbe there are those who can grit their
teeth and take it. Does that make them better than those who would rather
forego the pain? I don't think so. But who cares anyway? The objective is to
get the operation performed successfully, not to sit back in self-righteous
indignation and say, "I did it, so you have to do it the same way". That's
B.S. All this crap of pointing fingers, blaming people, telling them they're
wimps unless they can do it by themselves, has no place outside of Marine
boot camp. It may make you feel good to do it, but it doesn't solve the
problem.

> I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
> feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
> two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.

Nobody is arguing the physical facts of weight loss. What I am saying is
that we need to develop effective solutions so that everyone who wants to
lose weight can do it. You can tell me a hundred times that it works - that
doesn't change the fact that your way is not working for many people. Go
ahead, puff out your chest, feel good that you can hit the gym or the
bicycle, but that doesn't solve the epidemic, my friend.

I'd like to add that I value your opinions on several other subjects. I just
think you're not really seeing the problem on this one.

Ciao,
Rich S

[Matt Whiting]

Bill Daniels wrote:
> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bill Daniels wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Barnyard BOb -" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Nope, simply observation over time, knowing from labor statistics the
>>>>>kinds of jobs we have now compared to 30 or 40 years ago. We have
>
> fewer
>
>>>>>farm, manufacturing, heavy labor, etc., jobs and more desk jobs,
>
> service
>
>>>>>jobs, etc. Also, I've yet to see any evidence that humans have evolved
>>>>>genetically in a dramatic way in such a short period of time.
>>>>
>>>>>Matt
>>>>
>>>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>>My observations over time...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>>>>
>>>> YOU WEAR IT.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
>>>> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>3. My doctor sez....
>>>>
>>>> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
>>>> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Barnyard BOb -
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>My doctor said that whatever part of the body gets used the most gets
>
> the
>
>>>biggest. If you sit at a computer all day, your butt gets big.
>>
>>Do your eyes get bit also? :-)
>>
>>
>>Matt
>>
>
>
> 40 years ago the captain of my ship hit on a solution to the expanding
> waistlines of some of the crew.
>
> He ordered the hatches to the mess decks dogged and locked leaving only the
> 18" diameter scuttle holes. If you could skinny through the holes, you
> could eat. If not, you could report to the ships doctor for a special diet
> and exercise. Of course, you could also starve.
>
> One of my Chief Petty Officers was heard to say after consulting a chart of
> height vs. desired weight, "I am NOT too heavy, I'm just 6 inches too
> short - it's height discrimination."

Unfortunately, if that was done today, the Captain would be brought up
on charges. :-(


Matt

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> I was talking about the GENERAL obesity problem in the US, not any
> particular person. Sure, there are all sorts of medical conditions that
> can cause weight gain or loss. I never said otherwise.

Medical conditions? I never said that skinny people were sick.
However, sometimes watching them gorge themselves does make *me* sick
with envy.

Its generally related to metabolism - the rate at which we burn all
those calories. I can't cite any medical reference for this, but I do
know that when I fast (i.e.-quit eating), I lose weight slower than if
I just cut back. With a low carb diet, I can actually gorge myself on
legal foods and lose weight faster than fasting.

The point I'm trying to make is that somehow my system shifts gears
when it comes to metabolism. If I go hungry, my metabolism slows way
down. Pig out and it speeds up. In these naturally skinny people, I
think that it's in high gear pretty much all of the time.

Dennis.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Matt Whiting]

Rich S. wrote:

> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
>>factor by far.
>
>
> Faith without "a shred of evidence" is wonderful.

There's lots of evidence. Do a little research. I'm not going to do it
for you.



> If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
>
>>have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
>>decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.
>
>
> I never asserted that.

I don't recall who asserted that genetics was behind obesity, but
someone in this thread did or at least made a strong insinuation to that
end.


>>The change is simple. You first have to simply admit that you are fat
>>because of what YOU are doing or not doing. Then decide you are going
>>to eat less and exercise more. Then go out and do it! Walk, ride bike,
>>whatever. If you spend all of your energy looking for a scapegoat, then
>>you'll stay fat and out of shape. Looking for an excuse simply doesn't
>>burn many calories! :-)
>
>
> Life is rarely simple.

Nor easy. Controlling one's weight is hard work. You either do it in a
job that requires hard work (I had no weight control issues when I
worked as a logger) or you work hard off the job exercising.


>>My dad quite smoking overnight before patches were available. I think
>>looking for bandaid solutions for every problem simply encourages more
>>people to wait around for the bandaid rather than making the hard
>>choices and investing some work.
>
>
> No sense using the saw. Just beat it off with the hammer. If it was good
> enough fer dad, it's good enough fer me.

Sorry, but using will power is the right tool for the job. Using
bandaid approaches is the wrong tool.


>>I think I know what you mean. You mean to say that eating less and
>>exercising is hard work and takes a lot of will power. I agree.
>
>
> Nope. I think you said that.

Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.


>>You are also saying that we should coddle folks and make it easy for them
>>rather than telling them to get off their butts and work a little. I
>>disagree.
>
>
> That may be one way to phrase it. I would liken it to the choice a surgeon
> makes when he chooses to use anaesthetic to perform an operation, rather
> than just saw the leg off. Yeah, mebbe there are those who can grit their
> teeth and take it. Does that make them better than those who would rather
> forego the pain? I don't think so. But who cares anyway? The objective is to
> get the operation performed successfully, not to sit back in self-righteous
> indignation and say, "I did it, so you have to do it the same way". That's
> B.S. All this crap of pointing fingers, blaming people, telling them they're
> wimps unless they can do it by themselves, has no place outside of Marine
> boot camp. It may make you feel good to do it, but it doesn't solve the
> problem.

Nice try, but not even close to being a good analogy. Surgery isn't a
lifestyle issue. Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue. A
better analogy is financial responsbility. The bandaid that many want
to apply is either bankruptcy or debt consolidation loans. These are
like liposuction, stomach stapling, etc., with respect to weight loss.
The trouble is, they don't address the underlying issues. Financially,
the issue is that people spend more than they make and don't know how to
budget and live within their means. Consolidating their debt without
addressing the underlying spending habits only gives them more headroom
to get into even deeper trouble. You have to address the
budget/spending issues first and then look at aids such as debt
consolidation loans. Same with weight. You need to address the
lifestyle habits.



>>I have a very hard time turning down a cookie or donut. I don't always
>>feel like stopping at the gym after work or hopping on the bike for a
>>two hour ride. However, I will tell you that it works.
>
>
> Nobody is arguing the physical facts of weight loss. What I am saying is
> that we need to develop effective solutions so that everyone who wants to
> lose weight can do it. You can tell me a hundred times that it works - that
> doesn't change the fact that your way is not working for many people. Go
> ahead, puff out your chest, feel good that you can hit the gym or the
> bicycle, but that doesn't solve the epidemic, my friend.

I disagree. 20 years of society telling people that nothing is their
fault and they are victims of McDonald's, Nabsico, or whoever, is what
isn't working.


> I'd like to add that I value your opinions on several other subjects. I just
> think you're not really seeing the problem on this one.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the coddling and
band-aid solutions HAVE been tried for at least a generation now and
THEY are what have been shown to not work. I think the Dr. Phil
approach should now be given a couple of decades of trial.


Matt

[Andy Asberry]

On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:18:14 -0400, Matt Whiting
> wrote:

>Rich S. wrote:
>
>> "Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
>> news:ccramb01ome@enews4.
>
>I never said it was the only straw, but I believe it is the largest
>factor by far. If anyone can show me a shred of evidence that humans
>have made some dramatic change in genetic composition in the last 3-4
>decads, I'll admit that I'm wrong.
>
>
Matt, I don't think it has happened in the last 3-4 decades. I don't
think it is a change in genetic composition but a survival of that
genetic composition in the last 300 years.

When food is scarce, those who's body can utilize whatever food is
available will survive. In the livestock industry, such an animal is
known as an easy keeper. It is a trait of some species and some
breeds.

Example: Several studies of Navajo, Pima and Apache Native Americans
have revealed between 45 and 74 percent have type 2 diabetes. A
condition brought on by obesity. The prevalence for obesity was a
result of culling those ancestors who were not "easy keepers" in
difficult times.

Bottom line is the abundance of food for those with "easy keeper"
genetic composition.

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>I was talking about the GENERAL obesity problem in the US, not any
>>particular person. Sure, there are all sorts of medical conditions that
>>can cause weight gain or loss. I never said otherwise.
>
>
> Medical conditions? I never said that skinny people were sick.
> However, sometimes watching them gorge themselves does make *me* sick
> with envy.
>
> Its generally related to metabolism - the rate at which we burn all
> those calories. I can't cite any medical reference for this, but I do
> know that when I fast (i.e.-quit eating), I lose weight slower than if
> I just cut back. With a low carb diet, I can actually gorge myself on
> legal foods and lose weight faster than fasting.

That is why you shouldn't quit eating, just reduce portion sizes.


> The point I'm trying to make is that somehow my system shifts gears
> when it comes to metabolism. If I go hungry, my metabolism slows way
> down. Pig out and it speeds up. In these naturally skinny people, I
> think that it's in high gear pretty much all of the time.

Yes, everyone's system does that. That is why exercise is an important
component of any successful, lasting weight loss/control program.
Exercise itself greatly increases metabolism and the extra muscle mass
you create also increases your base metabolic rate so the benefits keep
on accruing even between exercise sessions. That is why any competent
trainer will recommend strength training in addition to cardio in
addition to eating less of the right foods. Cardio burns more calories
at the moment, but has little to no lasting affect. My trainer says you
will burn more calories for another hour or two after a cardio workout.
After a round with the weights, he says you will burn extra calories
for up to 24 hours! I've seen a number of other sources make this same
claim so I don't think he's blowing smoke.


Matt

[Morgans]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote

>
> Nor easy. Controlling one's weight is hard work. You either do it in a
> job that requires hard work (I had no weight control issues when I
> worked as a logger) or you work hard off the job exercising.
******************

How old were you when you were a logger, Matt? How old are you now?

> Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
insightful.
******************

Now you are actng like you are not too old.
>

Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue.
*****************
hummm


> I think the coddling and
> band-aid solutions HAVE been tried for at least a generation now and
> THEY are what have been shown to not work. I think the Dr. Phil
> approach should now be given a couple of decades of trial.
****************

Dr. Phil occasionally hits on the right answers, and makes good television,
but his insight and solutions are almost always overly simplistic.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.716 / Virus Database: 472 - Release Date: 7/5/2004

[Rich S.]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
>
> Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
> insightful.

Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.

Bye.
Rich S.

[bryan chaisone]

Barnyard BOb - > wrote in message
>
> 1. IF YOU EAT MORE THAN YOU BURN....
>
> YOU WEAR IT.
>
>
> 2. Exercise is great for cardiovascular improvement,
> but one can easily eat more than can be exercised away.
>
>
> 3. My doctor sez....
>
> Put whatever you desire on your plate,
> then slide half of it off and you will lose weight.
>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb -

Bob (a long time time contributor), thank you. Rich S. is right, this
one is a keeper. I like to add that before, we didn't have so many
additives in our food. My grandfather lived to be 104 years old, and
was mobile up to his last days. He has been smoking since he was
fourteen. He grew his own tobacco, rice and vegetables...etc. He
raised his own cows, buffaloes, hogs, chickens...etc. He caught his
own fish and trapped his own wild game. In short he didn't consume
too much chemical. His food and his tobacco didn't have additives. I
believe, that contributed to his good health and longevity.

He demonstrated to me one time when I was very little (maybe five),
that if you light a store bought cigarette and put in down on the
ashtray, it will keep on burning until it burns itself out. He showed
me that hia cigar would burn itself out if left un-puffed or
unattended. He said this was due to additives that cigarette
manufacturer's put into cigarettes to make them keep burning so that
one has to start another cigarette thereby consume more of there
cigarette.

Bryan "The Monk" Chaisone

[Luke Kilpatrick]

What is all the damn mystery and hocus pocus about? If you sit on
your ass for a living, you need to exercise more. If you break a sweat for
more than two hours a day at work, then you're probably alright with the
exercise.
If you are reading this, (statistically, I'm guessing that you're
in the upper tenth percentile of world food intake), then stop eating so
damn much! I mean jeeze, how complicated is that? Ask any third worlder,
and they'll tell you that their entire family gets along fine on what
you're eating.
Eat whatever you want, but don't eat enough every week to power a
gnu for its whole annual migration. None of this is quantum physics, folks.
Your grandmother most likely could have explained it all with far fewer
words than I've used.
Remember Occam's Razor. If you're too fat, then you probably: Don't
get nearly enough exercise, Or, Eat WAY too much food, Or(in most cases),
BOTH.
Note: If you're a carpenter, or stonemason, or blacksmith, and you
eat three ounces of low-fat lettuce a day, then I'm stumped. You must have
been really bad in a former life.
Damn, I'm out of whiskey. End of Rant. Gotta remember to FILL that
glass before posting!

Luke

Is a person who blows up banks an Econoclast?
-Unknown

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Exercise itself greatly increases metabolism and the extra muscle mass
> you create also increases your base metabolic rate so the benefits keep
> on accruing even between exercise sessions. That is why any competent

In my case, exercise just makes me more hungry. I may burn a few more
calories, but I eat twice as much. I have been the most successful
not exercising while trying to diet.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Barnyard BOb -]

>"Matt Whiting" wrote...
>>
>> Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
>> insightful.
>
>Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.
>
>Bye.
>Rich S.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Can't we all just get along? <super smirk>



Barnyard BOb - Zig Heil, Mein Fuhrer

[Barnyard BOb -]

(JSoar) wrote:

>I weighed 220 pounds many years ago and thought it was mostly muscle.
>Now I weigh an average of 165 pounds, and that muscle turned out to be
>useless fat. I ride a bike 3 or 4 times a week for at least an hour,
>or walk about the same in the winter. I watch very carefully what I
>eat. Just enough protein, like a little bit of fish, no red meat, and
>a lot of vegetables, fruit, cereal grains. No junk foods, candy, ice
>cream, soda, etc.
>
>It was easy, the exercise habit replaced the snacking habit. Now I
>have to eat more than I really want in the summer to not get too
>skinny. My blood pressure is way down and my resting heart rate is in
>the 40's.
>
>A word to the wise,
>Jerry Booker
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A word to the 'not so wise'.


EXISTING

1. To live at a minimal level



LIVING

1. Full of life, interest, or vitality



Barnyard BOb - YMMV

[Barnyard BOb -]

"Morgans" wrote:

>
> Obesity, for most people, is a lifestyle issue.
>*****************
> hummm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


.. You certainly got that right.

.. It's called ......

.. SMOKING.


At age 44, I was still at my high school weight.
Then I quit smoking. - Twas 4 packs a day.

I gained 30 lbs in the first 30 days of cessation.

I've gained a mere_*half a pound*_a year since.
However, after 22 years of such....
feel free to add it all up.



Barnyard BOb --

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>Exercise itself greatly increases metabolism and the extra muscle mass
>>you create also increases your base metabolic rate so the benefits keep
>>on accruing even between exercise sessions. That is why any competent
>
>
> In my case, exercise just makes me more hungry. I may burn a few more
> calories, but I eat twice as much. I have been the most successful
> not exercising while trying to diet.

Yes, that is where the will power comes in! Hey, whatever works for you
is what you should do.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Barnyard BOb - wrote:

>
>>"Matt Whiting" wrote...
>>
>>>Probably, as you obviously aren't smart enough to say something that
>>>insightful.
>>
>>Ok. I invoke the Hitler clause.
>>
>>Bye.
>>Rich S.
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> Can't we all just get along? <super smirk>
>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb - Zig Heil, Mein Fuhrer

I think you started it! :-)

Matt

[Ernest Christley]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Rich S. wrote:
>
>> I scrounged through the recycle bin until I found last month's Reader's
>> Digest (July) and re-read the article on "Beating the Urge to Eat" by
>> Peter
>> Jaret. Several interesting items caught my attention.
>>
>> 1. A hormone called leptin signals the brain to supress appetite - "Hey,
>> Dude, quit eating. You're full!".
>>
>> 2. 85 to 90 percent of obese people DO NOT have a deficiency of leptin.
>> Their bodies have become resistant to its effects. This is much like
>> Type II
>> diabetes where the body has plenty of insulin but is insulin resistant.
>>
>> 3. An excess of triglycerides may contribute to leptin resistance.
>>
>> 4. An enzyme called SCD-1 - controlled by leptin - is used by the body to
>> create fat cells. Delete the gene that makes SCD-1 (in mice) and they can
>> pig out on Twinkies and beer without gaining weight.
>>
>> 5. Another culprit that may make you chubby is a virus, AD-36.
>>
>> 6. Base level activity can vary up to 500 calories/day. Notice how some
>> people constantly twitch? Low or high metabolism is hereditary, but
>> they're
>> working on metabolism boosting substances.
>>
>> The article closes with, "Patients used to blame being overweight on
>> glands
>> and hormones, and we doctors would say, 'It's not hormones, it's
>> calories,'
>> " says Banks. "Now we know hormones *are* involved." . . ."People can
>> diet
>> and lose 10 or 15 pounds. But real obesity isn't a willpower problem,.
>> It's
>> a medical problem."
>
>
> I still don't buy it. If it is a medical problem, why did it just occur
> in the last 20-30 years and not 500 or 1000 years ago? I believe it is
> our sedentary lifestyle combined with simply eating for recreation
> rather than sustenance.
>
>
> Matt
>

It's a medical problem that has always existed, but we have become much
more affluent in the past 20 or 30 years. We've gone from an average of
one car per family to three. We go to restaurants where we're served
huge, fatty portions, 'cause nobody would spend $50 for a plate of
boring vegetables and a slice of baloney (what you'd eat if you stayed
at home and fixed it yourself). Millenia of evolution taught us that we
better eat when food is available or you'll starve to death tomorrow.
You've gotta get fat in the summer to survive the winter. The instinct
is still there, but the winter isn't, and neither is the need to chase
the food down.

I've done better with my weight lately as I've started getting out of
the kitchen and into the garage, getting so caught up that I miss a meal
every now and again or just eat a bite so that I can get back to work.
I'll lose weight and have an airplane to boot. 8*)

--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber

[StellaStar]

A nonsensical pranked email address said:
>All true, but how do you explain skinny people that are sedentary and
>don't diet?

Fidgeting.
http://pwp.value.net/~fitness/wghtnews.htm#10

[Corrie]

wrote in message >...
> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 01:38:38 GMT, (Badwater
> Bill) wrote:
>
> >Don't ever modify anything from the plans if you build a kit or a
> >plans-built airplane. You don't know what the designer has done to
> >keep weight to a minimum and allow maximum strength for given part,
> >like a wing or a tail, etc. Don't modify anything. It's all been
> >CAD-CAM designed by computers and you don't have the thousands of
> >dollars (or hours) available to you to check all the scenarios of your
> >modification.
>
> Right . . . unless it wasn't. Never say never. Take the Christavia
> for instance, wasn't CAD-CAM designed, tube frame is laid out on the
> concret floor with tape measure and chalk lines and is modified as
> necessary depending on what you use for an engine. Designer even told
> me where to lengthen the fuselage and by how much, give or take. He
> admitted he over designed it on purpose. It's hell for stout because
> of it, but WAY overbuilt.
>
> Corky Scott


Ditto the Fly Baby. Most of the smaller parts are "cut to fit." The
plans call for 1/8 ply for the ribs, but the designer said that's only
because it's cheaper than 1/16. You can use door skins for the
fuselage if the laminate glue passes a 3-hr boil test. Use pine for
the capstrips if you want. Just don't compromise on the spars and
longerons.

Corrie

[Matt Whiting]

Ernest Christley wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> Rich S. wrote:
>>
>>> I scrounged through the recycle bin until I found last month's Reader's
>>> Digest (July) and re-read the article on "Beating the Urge to Eat" by
>>> Peter
>>> Jaret. Several interesting items caught my attention.
>>>
>>> 1. A hormone called leptin signals the brain to supress appetite - "Hey,
>>> Dude, quit eating. You're full!".
>>>
>>> 2. 85 to 90 percent of obese people DO NOT have a deficiency of leptin.
>>> Their bodies have become resistant to its effects. This is much like
>>> Type II
>>> diabetes where the body has plenty of insulin but is insulin resistant.
>>>
>>> 3. An excess of triglycerides may contribute to leptin resistance.
>>>
>>> 4. An enzyme called SCD-1 - controlled by leptin - is used by the
>>> body to
>>> create fat cells. Delete the gene that makes SCD-1 (in mice) and they
>>> can
>>> pig out on Twinkies and beer without gaining weight.
>>>
>>> 5. Another culprit that may make you chubby is a virus, AD-36.
>>>
>>> 6. Base level activity can vary up to 500 calories/day. Notice how some
>>> people constantly twitch? Low or high metabolism is hereditary, but
>>> they're
>>> working on metabolism boosting substances.
>>>
>>> The article closes with, "Patients used to blame being overweight on
>>> glands
>>> and hormones, and we doctors would say, 'It's not hormones, it's
>>> calories,'
>>> " says Banks. "Now we know hormones *are* involved." . . ."People can
>>> diet
>>> and lose 10 or 15 pounds. But real obesity isn't a willpower
>>> problem,. It's
>>> a medical problem."
>>
>>
>>
>> I still don't buy it. If it is a medical problem, why did it just
>> occur in the last 20-30 years and not 500 or 1000 years ago? I
>> believe it is our sedentary lifestyle combined with simply eating for
>> recreation rather than sustenance.
>>
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
> It's a medical problem that has always existed, but we have become much
> more affluent in the past 20 or 30 years. We've gone from an average of
> one car per family to three. We go to restaurants where we're served
> huge, fatty portions, 'cause nobody would spend $50 for a plate of
> boring vegetables and a slice of baloney (what you'd eat if you stayed
> at home and fixed it yourself). Millenia of evolution taught us that we
> better eat when food is available or you'll starve to death tomorrow.
> You've gotta get fat in the summer to survive the winter. The instinct
> is still there, but the winter isn't, and neither is the need to chase
> the food down.

Baloney. We also have a brain that we can use to know that we don't
need to eat like pigs when our waist measurement exceeds our chest
measurement. I really feel sorry for all you folk that are just victims
of the world and circumstances.


Matt

[Rob McDonald]

Matt Whiting > wrote in
:

> Ernest Christley wrote:
>
>> Matt Whiting wrote:
>>
>> It's a medical problem that has always existed, ...
>
> Baloney....
>
>
> Matt
>

From: http://pwp.value.net/~fitness/wghtnews.htm#10

"In a study of 11 individuals who were highly resistant to weight loss
while dieting, researchers measured all of these individuals' activity and
food calories for 14 days. The individuals also kept a log of their food
and exercise activities. At the end of the experiment, the research showed
that these individuals under reported their food calories by 47% and over
reported their exercise calories by 51%.

Prior to testing, these individuals believed their inability to lose weight
was due to a low resting metabolic rate and other metabolic factors. They
were distressed to learn tests showed their metabolisms to be normal.

These results are in agreement with many other studies showing individuals
oftentimes mis-report and consequently mis-perceive their actual food
intake and exercise activities."


Rob

[[email protected]]

Rob, Matt,

Metabolism is one fator, there are many more. Genetics could also
play a role in other things such as behavior or the person's ability
to taste or smell the food and the effect eating certain food has on
them.

I obviously feel that genetics plays a much more significant role than
you do. I can't deny that stomach stapling of fat people results in
much lower caloric intake and significant weight loss. At the same
time, I can't deny that doubling or tripling the caloric intake while
simultaneously reducing carbs to near zero will also result in rapid
weight loss in many people. The effectivness of a low carb / high
calorie diet is well known.

My nonscientific opinion about the low carb mechanism is that I
believe that carbs are a catalyst needed for digesting fat. In my own
experiments, a carb binge while on a low carb diet usually has
disasterous results. In my case, I can eat huge bowls of zero carb
ice cream covered in zero carb chocolate syrup and show a weight loss.
But if I throw a cracker in the works, all bets are off.

With that said, it is also possible that for genetic reasons, some fat
people may simply have more efficient digestive systems. Maybe their
livers secrete some enzyme that mine doesn't - I don't know. But even
if the genetic trait is simply the lack of willpower, then its still a
genetic trait. Obese tendencies run in families - that much is
obvious.

Dennis.

Rob McDonald > wrote:

> "In a study of 11 individuals who were highly resistant to weight loss
>
> Prior to testing, these individuals believed their inability to lose weight
> was due to a low resting metabolic rate and other metabolic factors. They
> were distressed to learn tests showed their metabolisms to be normal.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[John]

Matthew P. Cummings wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:51:04 +0000, n4mwd.dont.spam.me wrote:
>
>> f the genetic trait is simply the lack of willpower, then its still a
>> genetic trait. Obese tendencies run in families - that much is
>> obvious.
>
> What's obvious is that obese people feed their kids too much food as well.
> I can look to my own family for that info. At my Father in Law's he's
> always pushing more food towards you, much in excess of the normal amount
> you should consume. Of course he eats a lot of food and considers it
> normal and anybody who doesn't eat as much as him needs more. That's how
> it works.
>
> Those who cry GENETICS are those who do not have the will power to do a
> proper diet. I admit there are those who truly do have medical problems,
> but not all that cry it.
>
> Lets use you for an example because I already posted my info, how many
> calories do you consume in a day before and during your diet now?



Like I have always said:
Obesity IS Genetic! You LEARN your eating habits from your parents!
John (Eating Every Thing On My Plate!) P.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:51:04 GMT, wrote:

> Obese tendencies run in families - that much is
>obvious.

Often true, but is it genetic or is it learned behavior?

Tiny children of obese parents are often also obese. The infants can
only eat what's in front of them, so if they are obese, it's because
the parents are feeding them too much. Habits learned at an early age
are very difficult to unlearn.

The children have their obese parents as role models. If the parents
are obese, why would the children think it's not normal?

I think this is mostly learned behavior, not genetics.

Corky Scott

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 02:51:04 +0000, n4mwd.dont.spam.me wrote:

> f the genetic trait is simply the lack of willpower, then its still a
> genetic trait. Obese tendencies run in families - that much is
> obvious.

What's obvious is that obese people feed their kids too much food as well.
I can look to my own family for that info. At my Father in Law's he's
always pushing more food towards you, much in excess of the normal amount
you should consume. Of course he eats a lot of food and considers it
normal and anybody who doesn't eat as much as him needs more. That's how
it works.

Those who cry GENETICS are those who do not have the will power to do a
proper diet. I admit there are those who truly do have medical problems,
but not all that cry it.

Lets use you for an example because I already posted my info, how many
calories do you consume in a day before and during your diet now?

[Del Rawlins]

In > John wrote:
> Matthew P. Cummings wrote:

>> What's obvious is that obese people feed their kids too much food as
>> well. I can look to my own family for that info. At my Father in
>> Law's he's always pushing more food towards you, much in excess of
>
> Like I have always said:
> Obesity IS Genetic! You LEARN your eating habits from your parents!
> John (Eating Every Thing On My Plate!) P.

If obesity is all learned behavior, I want to know why my brother and I
can eat pretty much whatever we want without gaining weight? Our dad
was the same way until he got into his 50s, and even then didn't have to
cut back much on food. My eating habits are atrocious and may
eventually kill me but it probably won't be because I am overweight.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Matthew P. Cummings]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:06:07 +0000, Del Rawlins wrote:

> If obesity is all learned behavior, I want to know why my brother and I
> can eat pretty much whatever we want without gaining weight? Our dad

I don't know how old you are, I'm pretty young at 38. While in my younger
days I could also eat as much of any type of food out there without so
much as a single pound added. That's also what caused me to gain weight
in my early 30's. You see, I stopped playing Basketball, volleyball,
Baseball, and hiking due to knee troubles. Once I reduced those
activities I gained weight rather quickly.

It all depends on what you do during the day. I bet if you did what I do
now you would also gain weight. I also don't fidget or anything when I'm
idle, I'm steady as a rock and so I have no extra calorie burn either.

[Del Rawlins]

In et> Matthew P.
Cummings wrote:

> It all depends on what you do during the day. I bet if you did what I
> do now you would also gain weight. I also don't fidget or anything
> when I'm idle, I'm steady as a rock and so I have no extra calorie
> burn either.

That probably has a lot to do with it. I'm about as jumpy as a cat and
don't like to sit still for very long. I'm not too keen on exercise for
its own sake but have been known to push my canoe several miles upstream
with a stick from time to time.

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Matt Whiting]

Rob McDonald wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Ernest Christley wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Matt Whiting wrote:
>>>
>>>It's a medical problem that has always existed, ...
>>
>>Baloney....
>>
>>
>>Matt
>>
>
>
> From: http://pwp.value.net/~fitness/wghtnews.htm#10
>
> "In a study of 11 individuals who were highly resistant to weight loss
> while dieting, researchers measured all of these individuals' activity and
> food calories for 14 days. The individuals also kept a log of their food
> and exercise activities. At the end of the experiment, the research showed
> that these individuals under reported their food calories by 47% and over
> reported their exercise calories by 51%.
>
> Prior to testing, these individuals believed their inability to lose weight
> was due to a low resting metabolic rate and other metabolic factors. They
> were distressed to learn tests showed their metabolisms to be normal.
>
> These results are in agreement with many other studies showing individuals
> oftentimes mis-report and consequently mis-perceive their actual food
> intake and exercise activities."
>
>
> Rob

Yep, you simply can't argue the physics and chemistry. Even a very
efficient body, still needs a certain number of calories to keep itself
warm. If you cut back on the calories far enough, you WILL lose weight!
There is simply no way to avoid it. The hard part is cutting back the
calories and/or increasing the calorie consumption. At least it is hard
for me.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Del Rawlins wrote:

> In > John wrote:
>
>>Matthew P. Cummings wrote:
>
>
>>>What's obvious is that obese people feed their kids too much food as
>>>well. I can look to my own family for that info. At my Father in
>>>Law's he's always pushing more food towards you, much in excess of
>>
>>Like I have always said:
>>Obesity IS Genetic! You LEARN your eating habits from your parents!
>>John (Eating Every Thing On My Plate!) P.
>
>
> If obesity is all learned behavior, I want to know why my brother and I
> can eat pretty much whatever we want without gaining weight? Our dad
> was the same way until he got into his 50s, and even then didn't have to
> cut back much on food. My eating habits are atrocious and may
> eventually kill me but it probably won't be because I am overweight.

I don't think they said obesity is a learned behaviour. Obesity is a
state or condition, not a behaviour. Eating improperly is the learned
behaviour.

I could eat all I wanted and LOSE weight ... when I was 18 years old and
worked as a logger. The fact that I burned between 6,000 and 8,000
calories during an average work day probably had a little to do with it.
When I graduated from college and started a desk job, I cut my eating
in half, but was gaining a pound a month or more. Turns out half was
still a lot more than I needed when driving a desk.

I don't know what you and your brother do for a living or for sports or
hobbies, but I seriously doubt you are sitting around all day if you are
really eating a lot.


Matt

[Stuart Parker]

Something I have found useful for controlling diet is the DietPower PC
program.
www.dietpower.com

You set up a target weight reduction schedule, log food eaten and exercise
taken along with daily weight records. It continually adjusts for your
metabolic rate from this info to give you target calorie intake to track the
weight reduction schedule.

Works for me- information is everything.

There is also a similar program for Palms- EatIt.

Stuart (enjoying the free additional 5hp) Parker
ZK-JAW Airborne Edge 582
www.sparxfly.co.nz

[[email protected]]

"Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote:

> Those who cry GENETICS are those who do not have the will power to do a
> proper diet. I admit there are those who truly do have medical problems,
> but not all that cry it.
>
> Lets use you for an example because I already posted my info, how many
> calories do you consume in a day before and during your diet now?


Ok, I'll try. I must admit I don't know the exact amount of calories
I have been consuming before and during the Atkins diet, so the
following is just a good guess.

I would have to say that my caloric intake is probably doubled from
what it was before I started back on the low carb diet. This is
because before, I ate cheaper foods that were relatively low fat.
Things like baked potatos and fruits are comparatively very low fat
and not unreasonable in calories. My experience has shown that a low
fat, high carb diet results in weight gain.

However, with a high fat, low carb diet, I'm eating lots of zero carb
ice cream, fatty steaks, hamburger, bacon, sausage, eggs, cheese,
hotdogs and the like. A gram of fat packs a lot more calories than a
typical carb. I frequently have a bowl of popcorn consisting of 2
tablespoons of kernels with 3 tablespoons of butter and 4 ounces of
velveta cheese melted over the top of it. And Yes, despite all the
calories and fat, I'm losing weight. Popcorn does have a lot of carbs
(about 20 as described here), but I don't eat that more than a few
times a week.

The most serious problem with the low carb lifestyle is the expense.
Now that its catching on more, the price of meat products has gotten
unjustifiably unreasononable. Zero carb ice cream runs about $5 a
half gallon.

But getting back to your question, all in all, I would have to say
that there is good reason to beleive that I'm consuming at least
double the calories and still losing weight.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:
> "Matthew P. Cummings" > wrote:
>
>
>>Those who cry GENETICS are those who do not have the will power to do a
>>proper diet. I admit there are those who truly do have medical problems,
>>but not all that cry it.
>>
>>Lets use you for an example because I already posted my info, how many
>>calories do you consume in a day before and during your diet now?
>
>
>
> Ok, I'll try. I must admit I don't know the exact amount of calories
> I have been consuming before and during the Atkins diet, so the
> following is just a good guess.
>
> I would have to say that my caloric intake is probably doubled from
> what it was before I started back on the low carb diet. This is
> because before, I ate cheaper foods that were relatively low fat.
> Things like baked potatos and fruits are comparatively very low fat
> and not unreasonable in calories. My experience has shown that a low
> fat, high carb diet results in weight gain.
>
> However, with a high fat, low carb diet, I'm eating lots of zero carb
> ice cream, fatty steaks, hamburger, bacon, sausage, eggs, cheese,
> hotdogs and the like. A gram of fat packs a lot more calories than a
> typical carb. I frequently have a bowl of popcorn consisting of 2
> tablespoons of kernels with 3 tablespoons of butter and 4 ounces of
> velveta cheese melted over the top of it. And Yes, despite all the
> calories and fat, I'm losing weight. Popcorn does have a lot of carbs
> (about 20 as described here), but I don't eat that more than a few
> times a week.
>
> The most serious problem with the low carb lifestyle is the expense.
> Now that its catching on more, the price of meat products has gotten
> unjustifiably unreasononable. Zero carb ice cream runs about $5 a
> half gallon.
>
> But getting back to your question, all in all, I would have to say
> that there is good reason to beleive that I'm consuming at least
> double the calories and still losing weight.

I'd have to see some records to believe you have doubled your intake and
are losing weight. I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think you
have the data to know. Many studies have shown that people who don't
actually record their intake make guesses that are pure fantasy.

I certainly believe that some foods are metabolized better than others,
or have calories that aren't easily extracted (they end up in the
commode in other words!), but I really question a 2:1 change and have
never seen any documentation that such a large delta is possible.

Keep in mind that it is simple physics. Energy in = Energy out + stored
energy.

If you double your calories and don't gain weight then you must be
doubling your energy out. The question is where is that going? There
are really only a few places it can go. It can be used to heat your
body, but unless your body temp is now a lot higher on the Atkins diet
than before, it isn't being consumed here. It can be used to do "work",
which basically means move your body from place to place. If you are
doing a lot more exercise than before the Atkins diet, then this is the
most likely use of the extra energy. The other place it can go is down
the crapper. I may be forgetting something, but that is about it.
There simply isn't any magic place in your body where energy can just
disappear. It has to be accounted for somewhere, and if it isn't being
stored as body fat, then it goes to one of the three places above.


Matt

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> I'd have to see some records to believe you have doubled your intake and
> are losing weight. I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think you
> have the data to know. Many studies have shown that people who don't
> actually record their intake make guesses that are pure fantasy.

The volume of food I eat has remained about the same. Its what I'm
eating that's changed. My guess is that the fact that I'm eating more
fatty foods and less starchy foods has caused my caloric intake to
increase. I have also eating a lot of stir fry recently to get the
much needed fiber. The catch is that I cook it with about 1/4th cup
of oil which becomes part of the meal. That is, one pound bag of
stir-fry plus 1/4 cup oil plus 4 hot dogs or sausages equals one meal
for me. (Not counting the ice cream for desert).

> I certainly believe that some foods are metabolized better than others,
> or have calories that aren't easily extracted (they end up in the
> commode in other words!), but I really question a 2:1 change and have
> never seen any documentation that such a large delta is possible.

Unless I hear a better theory than mine, I'm sticking with it. Fat is
a complicated molecule and we can't burn fat - we burn glucose - which
is a simple carb. Complex carbs, such as sugar and starch, are very
easily converted into glucose. Howver, fats are a much more complex
process.

To reiterate my theory, I believe that carbs are necessary to
metabolize fat. Without carbs, the fat just goes down the toilet.
Given the drastic results that some people have realized with atkins,
its kind of like a knifeless stomach staple.

Another thing is that if you don't get sick or weak within the first
few days of starting the diet, then you're not doing it right. The
weakness subsides as your body gets accustomed to consuming body fat
and not direct carbs. Its kind of like having the reverse gear on
your car rusted stuck because you never use it.

One final note, both Pepsi and Coke have come out with half-carb
beverages. I'm not sure what they are thinking, but here is what I
found out. Pepsi is sugar and sucralose. Coke is sugar, acesulfame K
and aspartame. So obviously, Pepsi is a healthier product.
Unfortunately, I can't have either one because they contain sugar, but
diabetics are allowed to consume limited amounts of carbs. So
Pepsi-half might be a good thing for them. Nevertheless, Diet-Rite is
better than both.

Dennis.


Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[JohnT.]

I never heard of anyone get SICK starting atkins. weak and tired yes,
but not sick.

I've lost 50# on atkins, gained back about 10 over the holidays
(couldn't resist!) and am slowly getting it back off again (not getting
as much exercise, but wait til Oshkosh...).

Any diet must be a lifestyle change, not lose your weight then go back
to your old eating habits that made you fat in the first place.

John

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>I'd have to see some records to believe you have doubled your intake and
>>are losing weight. I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think you
>>have the data to know. Many studies have shown that people who don't
>>actually record their intake make guesses that are pure fantasy.
>
>
> The volume of food I eat has remained about the same. Its what I'm
> eating that's changed. My guess is that the fact that I'm eating more
> fatty foods and less starchy foods has caused my caloric intake to
> increase. I have also eating a lot of stir fry recently to get the
> much needed fiber. The catch is that I cook it with about 1/4th cup
> of oil which becomes part of the meal. That is, one pound bag of
> stir-fry plus 1/4 cup oil plus 4 hot dogs or sausages equals one meal
> for me. (Not counting the ice cream for desert).

Guessing is a very accurate method.


>>I certainly believe that some foods are metabolized better than others,
>>or have calories that aren't easily extracted (they end up in the
>>commode in other words!), but I really question a 2:1 change and have
>>never seen any documentation that such a large delta is possible.
>
>
> Unless I hear a better theory than mine, I'm sticking with it. Fat is
> a complicated molecule and we can't burn fat - we burn glucose - which
> is a simple carb. Complex carbs, such as sugar and starch, are very
> easily converted into glucose. Howver, fats are a much more complex
> process.
>
> To reiterate my theory, I believe that carbs are necessary to
> metabolize fat. Without carbs, the fat just goes down the toilet.
> Given the drastic results that some people have realized with atkins,
> its kind of like a knifeless stomach staple.

The short-term gains have been impressive in some people, but I don't
know of any who have doubled their calorie intake and still lost weight.
Some recent studies over the longer-term have shown that Atkins has
essentially no long-term advantage over other diets.

Matt

[[email protected]]

"JohnT." > wrote:

> I never heard of anyone get SICK starting atkins. weak and tired yes,
> but not sick.

You are quite correct, but it depends on just how weak you get. It
also depends on if you are doing physical activities at the time.
When your body is used to "easy glucose", its a bit of a shock when
suddenly it has to start digging into its fat reserves.

I have heard of one guy, a construction worker, who got terribly sick
after starting Atkins. I suspect that his sugar level probably got
too low. For people like that, an initial reduced carb diet might be
better to ease into the full blown diet.

> I've lost 50# on atkins, gained back about 10 over the holidays
> (couldn't resist!) and am slowly getting it back off again (not getting
> as much exercise, but wait til Oshkosh...).
>
> Any diet must be a lifestyle change, not lose your weight then go back
> to your old eating habits that made you fat in the first place.

That is definitely a fact. Its not really a diet, its a lifesytle.
If anyone thinks they are going to lose 50# and then go out and eat
ten pizzas, they are mistaken if they don't think they'll gain it back
fast.

When you are ready for a snack, check out that Breyers zero carb ice
cream. Its not as good as the Breyers 4 carb ice cream, but its much
better than all of the competition that I've tried. Some of the
others tasted a lot like plastic which Breyers doesn't. My point is
that I'm really glad that a lot of companies are getting on the low
carb bandwagon.

I just drank a big glass of low carb chocolate milk - 2 carbs. They
have low carb bread, but its 6 carbs/slice and that is too much for me
right now. Also, you might want to avoid the low carb spaghetti. Its
half the carbs uncooked, but it doesn't swell when cooked like regular
spaghetti. The result is that after cooking, it takes twice as much
to fill the plate. The net result is that you're better off eating
regular spaghetti, but half of it and not very often.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[www.seo-highrankings.com]

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>
> > Matt Whiting > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'd have to see some records to believe you have doubled your intake and
> >>are losing weight. I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think you
> >>have the data to know. Many studies have shown that people who don't
> >>actually record their intake make guesses that are pure fantasy.
> >
> >
> > The volume of food I eat has remained about the same. Its what I'm
> > eating that's changed. My guess is that the fact that I'm eating more
> > fatty foods and less starchy foods has caused my caloric intake to
> > increase. I have also eating a lot of stir fry recently to get the
> > much needed fiber. The catch is that I cook it with about 1/4th cup
> > of oil which becomes part of the meal. That is, one pound bag of
> > stir-fry plus 1/4 cup oil plus 4 hot dogs or sausages equals one meal
> > for me. (Not counting the ice cream for desert).
>
> Guessing is a very accurate method.
>
>
> >>I certainly believe that some foods are metabolized better than others,
> >>or have calories that aren't easily extracted (they end up in the
> >>commode in other words!), but I really question a 2:1 change and have
> >>never seen any documentation that such a large delta is possible.
> >
> >
> > Unless I hear a better theory than mine, I'm sticking with it. Fat is
> > a complicated molecule and we can't burn fat - we burn glucose - which
> > is a simple carb. Complex carbs, such as sugar and starch, are very
> > easily converted into glucose. Howver, fats are a much more complex
> > process.
> >
> > To reiterate my theory, I believe that carbs are necessary to
> > metabolize fat. Without carbs, the fat just goes down the toilet.
> > Given the drastic results that some people have realized with atkins,
> > its kind of like a knifeless stomach staple.
>
> The short-term gains have been impressive in some people, but I don't
> know of any who have doubled their calorie intake and still lost weight.
> Some recent studies over the longer-term have shown that Atkins has
> essentially no long-term advantage over other diets.
>
> Matt
Hi Matt,

Do you have links to any of those studies?

--
James
http://www.AICompany.com - SEO, Web Development and Hosting
http://www.SEO-highrankings.com -FREE SEO TOOLS

[kansasman]

Matt Whiting > wrote in message >...
> wrote:
>
> > Matt Whiting > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'd have to see some records to believe you have doubled your intake and
> >>are losing weight. I'm not saying you are lying, I just don't think you
> >>have the data to know. Many studies have shown that people who don't
> >>actually record their intake make guesses that are pure fantasy.
> >
> >
> > The volume of food I eat has remained about the same. Its what I'm
> > eating that's changed. My guess is that the fact that I'm eating more
> > fatty foods and less starchy foods has caused my caloric intake to
> > increase. I have also eating a lot of stir fry recently to get the
> > much needed fiber. The catch is that I cook it with about 1/4th cup
> > of oil which becomes part of the meal. That is, one pound bag of
> > stir-fry plus 1/4 cup oil plus 4 hot dogs or sausages equals one meal
> > for me. (Not counting the ice cream for desert).
>
> Guessing is a very accurate method.
>
>
> >>I certainly believe that some foods are metabolized better than others,
> >>or have calories that aren't easily extracted (they end up in the
> >>commode in other words!), but I really question a 2:1 change and have
> >>never seen any documentation that such a large delta is possible.
> >
> >
> > Unless I hear a better theory than mine, I'm sticking with it. Fat is
> > a complicated molecule and we can't burn fat - we burn glucose - which
> > is a simple carb. Complex carbs, such as sugar and starch, are very
> > easily converted into glucose. Howver, fats are a much more complex
> > process.
> >
> > To reiterate my theory, I believe that carbs are necessary to
> > metabolize fat. Without carbs, the fat just goes down the toilet.
> > Given the drastic results that some people have realized with atkins,
> > its kind of like a knifeless stomach staple.
>
> The short-term gains have been impressive in some people, but I don't
> know of any who have doubled their calorie intake and still lost weight.
> Some recent studies over the longer-term have shown that Atkins has
> essentially no long-term advantage over other diets.
>
> Matt

I have read that also- that Atkins has no long term advantages. This
is perhaps because Atkins does not embrace all of the values of the
balanced diet. There is nothing wrong with having some carbos, a
small sliver of birthday cake at a party. It is when people go
overboard that there is a problem.

[John]

Barnyard BOb - wrote:

>
>
>>With Atkins, you are free to pig out on as much zero
>>carb stuff as you please. Pass me another steak please! Hungry at
>>3AM? No problem, pop a couple of sausage links in the microwave,
>>enjoy and go back to bed.
>
>>Dennis Hawkins
>>n4mwd AT amsat DOT org
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> This is trite, simplistic and short of a bullseye, folks.
>
>
> Barnyard BOb - Atkins advocate
> Barnyard BOb - the myth goes on
> Barnyard BOb - if you eat it, you may wear it
> Barnyard BOb - no such thing as a free lunch

This guy has fallen for it hook line and sinker. Unfortunately he is way off
base!
Dr. Atkins had a nice little heart problem to go with his "fall".
You cannot live long term with the Atkins diet!
Stuff yourself daily with all the meat and poultry you can eat and your
arteries will get smaller and smaller (in internal diameter(its called
plaque (sp)) builtup).
The food pyramid info is a bunch of unsubstantiated hoax to justify his
Atkins fix.
Dennis you obviously can't be convinced but like all fad diets this one too
will be proven over time to be the baloney (pun intended) it is.
Nothing beats a balanced diet with proper exercise/activity to lose or
maintain weight healthily.
John
my 2.5 cents worth.
off my soapbox.

[[email protected]]

(kansasman) wrote:

> I have read that also- that Atkins has no long term advantages. This
> is perhaps because Atkins does not embrace all of the values of the
> balanced diet. There is nothing wrong with having some carbos, a
> small sliver of birthday cake at a party. It is when people go
> overboard that there is a problem.

Yes, I think that everybody cheats a little on any diet.

Atkins not only isn't balanced, but it spits on the USDA food pyramid.
The USDA food pyramid is blatently wrong. I heard Dr. Atkins say one
time in a TV interview that the USDA food pyramid was designed as a
tool to fatten hogs for slaughter. It was designed to make hogs get
fat quick. It worked too, and now they are telling kids in school to
eat like that. And they're getting fat too.

When I was a kid, I didn't know any better and I ate milk and cereal
every day for breakfast. I had no idea the harm I was doing to myself
with that many carbs a day like that. I wish Dr. Atkins was around
back then.

However, Atkins does have a significant long term advantage. Its a
lifestyle that you CAN maintain for the rest of your life. Other
diets restrict caloric intake - even on maintainence. This means
going hungry. With Atkins, you are free to pig out on as much zero
carb stuff as you please. Pass me another steak please! Hungry at
3AM? No problem, pop a couple of sausage links in the microwave,
enjoy and go back to bed. That is something that is not allowed on
most other diets.

Dennis.



Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Barnyard BOb -]

>With Atkins, you are free to pig out on as much zero
>carb stuff as you please. Pass me another steak please! Hungry at
>3AM? No problem, pop a couple of sausage links in the microwave,
>enjoy and go back to bed.

>Dennis Hawkins
>n4mwd AT amsat DOT org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

This is trite, simplistic and short of a bullseye, folks.


Barnyard BOb - Atkins advocate
Barnyard BOb - the myth goes on
Barnyard BOb - if you eat it, you may wear it
Barnyard BOb - no such thing as a free lunch

[JohnT.]

FWIW, I've made some ice cream from an atkins recipe, about 2 carbs each
serving. A bit of work, but its good. I have not made it in a few months
though.

John

[RobertR237]

>
>However, Atkins does have a significant long term advantage. Its a
>lifestyle that you CAN maintain for the rest of your life.

Yes sir, the rest of your short life as your cholestrol level climbs into the
heights and you have a heart attack.

>Other
>diets restrict caloric intake - even on maintainence. This means
>going hungry. With Atkins, you are free to pig out on as much zero
>carb stuff as you please. Pass me another steak please! Hungry at
>3AM? No problem, pop a couple of sausage links in the microwave,
>enjoy and go back to bed. That is something that is not allowed on
>most other diets.

As much as I would love such a diet, it is a prescription for disaster.




Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> (kansasman) wrote:
>
>
>>I have read that also- that Atkins has no long term advantages. This
>>is perhaps because Atkins does not embrace all of the values of the
>>balanced diet. There is nothing wrong with having some carbos, a
>>small sliver of birthday cake at a party. It is when people go
>>overboard that there is a problem.
>
>
> Yes, I think that everybody cheats a little on any diet.
>
> Atkins not only isn't balanced, but it spits on the USDA food pyramid.
> The USDA food pyramid is blatently wrong. I heard Dr. Atkins say one
> time in a TV interview that the USDA food pyramid was designed as a
> tool to fatten hogs for slaughter. It was designed to make hogs get
> fat quick. It worked too, and now they are telling kids in school to
> eat like that. And they're getting fat too.
>
> When I was a kid, I didn't know any better and I ate milk and cereal
> every day for breakfast. I had no idea the harm I was doing to myself
> with that many carbs a day like that. I wish Dr. Atkins was around
> back then.

How old was Dr. Atkins when he died recently?


Matt

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

>
> How old was Dr. Atkins when he died recently?


Looks like about 72. He was older than me, but he wasn't around in
the public light until long after I grew up. See below:

Dennis.

================================
Thursday, April 17, 2003 Posted: 1:48 PM EDT (1748 GMT)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein,
low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet, died Thursday after an accidental fall
on April 8 left him comatose.

Atkins, 72, was rushed to New York Weill Cornell Medical Center by his
colleague, Dr. Keith Berkowitz, where surgeons removed a blood clot to
relieve pressure in his brain on April 9.

Atkins slipped on an icy sidewalk outside his New York office.
================================



Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[[email protected]]

"JohnT." > wrote:

> FWIW, I've made some ice cream from an atkins recipe, about 2 carbs each
> serving. A bit of work, but its good. I have not made it in a few months
> though.

I've done that too, but its an awful lot of work. I'd say that you
probably end up burning off those 2 carbs and more making the stuff.

The zero carb stuff from Breyers is not bad at all. You can tell its
a little off from the regular, but not bad at all. The 4 carb kind is
indistinguishable in taste from the full blown high sugar ice cream.
I tried a different brand, which is 3 carbs, but it was way off and
tasted a lot like plastic or wax. I only get that kind when its on
sale.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[Matt Whiting]

wrote:

> Matt Whiting > wrote:
>
>
>>How old was Dr. Atkins when he died recently?
>
>
>
> Looks like about 72. He was older than me, but he wasn't around in
> the public light until long after I grew up. See below:

Correct. He'd also had heart trouble prior to his fall. My grandfather
ate bread, butter and jam or peanut butter after every supper. He ate
ice cream every evening. Ate meat (beef mostly) and potatoes all his
life. Was never in a hospital until donated blood to a friend when he
was in his 70s. Lived to be 94.

Let me see. Lots of carbs and 94 or Atkins and heart disease before 72.
Such a tough decision....


Matt

[[email protected]]

Matt Whiting > wrote:

> Correct. He'd also had heart trouble prior to his fall. My grandfather
> ate bread, butter and jam or peanut butter after every supper. He ate
> ice cream every evening. Ate meat (beef mostly) and potatoes all his
> life. Was never in a hospital until donated blood to a friend when he
> was in his 70s. Lived to be 94.
>
> Let me see. Lots of carbs and 94 or Atkins and heart disease before 72.
> Such a tough decision....

Matt,

There are always examples of fringe elements that for genetic reasons
will buck the odds. There are a lot of chilren dying right now from
heart disease who also eat low fat and high carb diets. And it
wouldn't be that hard to find a guy who smoked 6 packs a day since he
was 10, never got cancer and died at the ripe old age of 105 from a
Viagra overdose. But this would be the exception and not the rule.

The correct indicator of heart disease has been established to be a
certain protein and not cholesterol. Cholesterol is only important to
people who make or sell $4 a pill cholesterol lowering drugs.

Not only that, but while on a low carb diet, you can expect a general
reduction in your cholesterol levels. This is a fact that has been
proven over and over. The most significant drop is in triglycerides.

Moreover, the fact is that Dr. Atkins died from an accident and not
from heart disease.

Dennis.

Dennis Hawkins
n4mwd AT amsat DOT org (humans know what to do)

"A RECESSION is when you know somebody who is out of work.
A DEPRESSION is when YOU are out of work.
A RECOVERY is when all the H-1B's are out of work."

To find out what an H-1B is and how Congress is using
them to put Americans out of work, visit the following
web site and click on the "Exporting America" CNN news
video: http://zazona.com/ShameH1B/MediaClips.htm

[RobertR237]

>
>The correct indicator of heart disease has been established to be a
>certain protein and not cholesterol. Cholesterol is only important to
>people who make or sell $4 a pill cholesterol lowering drugs.
>
>

Please provide a recognized medical reference for the above statement or
withdraw it. I have seen repeated references that indicate direct correlation
between Cholesterol and heart disease but have not ever seen or heard of any
acceptable evidence to support your statements.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)