Motorglider Endorsement

[lynn]

I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman

[SoaringXCellence]

Lynn,

Several of the instructors in the Willamette club are able to help you. Tow it down to North Plains.

Mike

[lynn]

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman

I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 9:52:34 PM UTC-6, lynn wrote:
> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> > I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
>
> I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.

You still may need a CFI-G sign-off for that specific glider for insurance purposes, even after the self-launch endorsement.

Frank

[MN50]

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 8:52:34 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> > I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
>
> I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.

Contact Rex Mayes at Williams Soaring. He has an ASG-32mi.

[lynn]

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
> On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 9:52:34 PM UTC-6, lynn wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> > > I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
> >
> > I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.
>
> You still may need a CFI-G sign-off for that specific glider for insurance purposes, even after the self-launch endorsement.
>
> Frank
Yes, certainly will do that--several CFI-Gs here. Thanks.

[lynn]

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 11:18:11 PM UTC-7, MN50 wrote:
> On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 8:52:34 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> > > I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
> >
> > I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.
>
> Contact Rex Mayes at Williams Soaring. He has an ASG-32mi.

Thank you for the info. I will contact him shortly.

[SoaringXCellence]

Colin Gyenes at McMinneville has a Spotavia RF-5B is number is: 503.857.8021

[Dan Marotta]

I have alwaysÂ* wondered about the usefulness of having someone who's
never seen a particular make/model of glider "sign me off" as competent
to fly it.



On 9/4/2017 10:44 AM, lynn wrote:
> On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 9:48:34 PM UTC-7, Frank Whiteley wrote:
>> On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 9:52:34 PM UTC-6, lynn wrote:
>>> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
>>>> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
>>> I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.
>> You still may need a CFI-G sign-off for that specific glider for insurance purposes, even after the self-launch endorsement.
>>
>> Frank
> Yes, certainly will do that--several CFI-Gs here. Thanks.

--
Dan, 5J

[kinsell]

On 09/03/2017 09:52 PM, lynn wrote:
> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
>> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
>
> I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.
>

When I transitioned to self-launchers (nine years ago), I was told by
Costello that I couldn't fly the ship by aero tow before getting the
endorsement. Where is the requirement coming from to get the
endorsement before even taking delivery?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 11:06:47 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I have alwaysÂ* wondered about the usefulness of having someone who's
> never seen a particular make/model of glider "sign me off" as competent
> to fly it.

Years ago I got a new-to-me glider model, and the insurance required a "cockpit checkout". I asked a CFIG for that, and after some futzing around the cockpit with me he wrote in my logbook that he checked the cockpit and found the glider airworthy. :-)

[Dan Marotta]

Take a look at Starr Insurance.Â* Their policy says that anybody that I
feel is qualified to fly my ship is OK with them.Â* Of course, for FAA
compliance, the pilot would need a self launch endorsement. Costello
would not even quote the Stemme, so I cancelled my Pipistrel policy and
moved it to Starr.

On 9/5/2017 12:25 PM, kinsell wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 09:52 PM, lynn wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
>>> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch
>>> next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in
>>> Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
>>
>> I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking
>> delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to
>> a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not
>> be used to get the endorsement.
>>
>
> When I transitioned to self-launchers (nine years ago), I was told by
> Costello that I couldn't fly the ship by aero tow before getting the
> endorsement.Â* Where is the requirement coming from to get the
> endorsement before even taking delivery?

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 12:05:22 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Years ago I got a new-to-me glider model, and the insurance required a "cockpit checkout".
> I asked a CFIG for that, and after some futzing around the cockpit with me he wrote in my
> logbook that he checked the cockpit and found the glider airworthy. :-)

The insurance company would like some confirmation that the new pilot is familiar with the POH, and the simplest way is to ask for a CFIG endorsement. You and the instructor should have gone over parts of the POH and perhaps the W&B to confirm you understand the aircraft and its systems as well as making sure it's airworthy. If the instructor knows nothing about this glider, an experienced pilot can be enlisted to provide a brief which the instructor supervises.

I'm sure even Dan would like to see me get briefed on his Stemme before tossing me the keys ;-)

5Z

[lynn]

On Tuesday, September 5, 2017 at 11:25:49 AM UTC-7, kinsell wrote:
> On 09/03/2017 09:52 PM, lynn wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-7, lynn wrote:
> >> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman
> >
> > I think I was misunderstood. I need the endorsement before taking delivery. I would like to find an authorized endorser with access to a two-place motor glider. My Mini LAK is a single seater and will not be used to get the endorsement.
> > I just want to be ready before delivery for convenience.

>
> When I transitioned to self-launchers (nine years ago), I was told by
> Costello that I couldn't fly the ship by aero tow before getting the
> endorsement. Where is the requirement coming from to get the
> endorsement before even taking delivery?

[[email protected]]

I see my posting was not clear. My story tried to illustrate that a "cockpit checkout" is not well defined, and in the case of that specific CFIG, was completely misunderstood. For a useful checkout, a non-CFI pilot who is well acquainted with the model can probably do a better job than a CFI who is not.

When I got my first glider, which was an HP-14, single-seater with flaps and no spoilers, I got checked out by a CFIG in a *Cessna*, which was appropriate, since that allowed dual practice with flaps. I was also used to flying the Cessna at that time, so could demonstrate knowledge and proficiency in the use of flaps. I wonder if a powered plane (with a suitably rated CFIG) could be used for dual training for the motorglider endorsement, if a 2-seat motorglider is not available?

[Papa3[_2_]]

Like many things in aviation, what you get depends a bit on what you ask for. I've been asked to do cockpit checkout on some gliders that I've never flown. I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, so I found a knowledgeable pilot to participate (e.g. for a PIK 20B). Hopefully if you're far enough along to be buying you're own sailplane, you know a bit about what a checkout should be.

One of the reasons I like flying with a club is that (hopefully) the peer group will keep an eye out for folks who are buying too much glider for their experience.

Sorry - off topic. Oh well, it is RAS after all.

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 10:59:26 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> I see my posting was not clear. My story tried to illustrate that a "cockpit checkout" is not well defined, and in the case of that specific CFIG, was completely misunderstood. For a useful checkout, a non-CFI pilot who is well acquainted with the model can probably do a better job than a CFI who is not.
>
> When I got my first glider, which was an HP-14, single-seater with flaps and no spoilers, I got checked out by a CFIG in a *Cessna*, which was appropriate, since that allowed dual practice with flaps. I was also used to flying the Cessna at that time, so could demonstrate knowledge and proficiency in the use of flaps. I wonder if a powered plane (with a suitably rated CFIG) could be used for dual training for the motorglider endorsement, if a 2-seat motorglider is not available?

[Darryl Ramm]

On Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 7:59:26 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> I see my posting was not clear. My story tried to illustrate that a "cockpit checkout" is not well defined, and in the case of that specific CFIG, was completely misunderstood. For a useful checkout, a non-CFI pilot who is well acquainted with the model can probably do a better job than a CFI who is not.
>
> When I got my first glider, which was an HP-14, single-seater with flaps and no spoilers, I got checked out by a CFIG in a *Cessna*, which was appropriate, since that allowed dual practice with flaps. I was also used to flying the Cessna at that time, so could demonstrate knowledge and proficiency in the use of flaps. I wonder if a powered plane (with a suitably rated CFIG) could be used for dual training for the motorglider endorsement, if a 2-seat motorglider is not available?

Generally no since it won't meet the guidance in AC 61-94. Everything beyond that is going to be a more detailed discussion with the FAA.

Schleicher motorglider purchasers at least are well covered with Williams having an ASG 32Mi for flight instruction and the common operation across different Schleicher motogliders. I notice Phoenix as well including instruction for their motorgliders out of Minden. I'm not sure which other arrangements dealers have for self-launch endorsements and sign offs but it seems important and something I would look for when considering buying a motorglider.

(Years ago I did a self-launch endorsement with Rolf Peterson in a Grob 109.. Largely irrelevant to the ASH-26E I was about to buy, but we knew that and Rolf provided very good and still useful training. I then I did a ASH26E sign off by Rex at Williams with help from a very experienced ASH26E owner.. With stuff as funky/finicky as some motorgliders I would really try to spend time with experienced owner/operators to avoid expensive or dangerous mistakes. I've seen stuff as simple as sharing and refining rigging and pre-flight checklists to be really useful).

[Dan Marotta]

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:55:37 PM UTC-6, lynn wrote:
> I will be taking delivery on a Mini LAK 13.5 electric self launch next year and need to get the required endorsement. I am located in Western Washington state. Any instructors nearby? L. Wyman

*I* would brief you, Tom. But, since I've studiously avoided getting a CFI, that wouldn't mean squat. My point was that the license doesn't really mean anything if the CFI doesn't know the ship.

[[email protected]]

Emphasis should be on being fully safe, practical, and proficient in the particular ship, then compliance with the regs and insurance particulars. All necessary, unless you self-insure.

I bought a Hoffman Dimona in the 1980's, was superbly trained by the late Bill Seed, then sent it back when the landing gear developed cracks early on without any untoward landings. Next experience many years hence was an early Silent 2 FES prototype, with cockpit checkout from Leo B. The Silent FES was so easy, seamless and non-critical that the checkout was more than sufficient. Spare the comments on current LiPo battery development, aware of that. Had the order of the two designs above been reversed, it would not have worked for a cockpit checkout in the Dimona. Not at all.

Then more recently flight instruction from Bill Hill in my Stemme. Valuable, sage experience, advice, and correction. Applied and works well.

All 3 of the above, highly varied, but adhering to the principles in the first paragraph which I would recommend to anyone.

Gary Osoba