Fiberglass release agent?

[[email protected]]

i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
but don't have time to order a release agent.
From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
Can I just use paste wax for the mold?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks

Dave

[Richard Lamb]

wrote:
>
> i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
> but don't have time to order a release agent.
> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
> Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

Almost anything that will seal the mold and keep the resin from
sticking will work. I use epoxy only for lay ups. Epoxy makes
pretty good glue. Something to keep in mind...

The following is way primative...

I've often used sheet rock mud for one-off plugs. This is very porus
stuff and if not sealed, it WILL become and integral part of the part.

The main attraction is that it is very cheap and easy to work.

For a mud plug I melt parafin (candle wax) in a double boiler (actually
a tin can in a pot of boiling water) and paint it onto the plug. It
will not be smooth - brush marks and drag lumps will look terrible.

Next, a hot air gun is used to melt the excess off with a careful rub
down while melted. This is to rub the wax into the surface - and burn
your fingers if you stay at the party too long!

Last, a couple of real good paste wax rubs.
Then a smooth coat of paste wax before starting the lay up.
Don't rub these paste wax coate _off_, tho.

Note that this is a fairly risky proceedure - both for the plug
and for the part. But it can work ok if you are careful and patient.

If your mold is already smooth and not as porus, several good coats
of wax might be ok.

Does that help any?

Richard

[[email protected]]

Richard Lamb wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
>>but don't have time to order a release agent.
>> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
>>Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
>>
>>Any other suggestions?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Dave
>
>
> Almost anything that will seal the mold and keep the resin from
> sticking will work. I use epoxy only for lay ups. Epoxy makes
> pretty good glue. Something to keep in mind...
>
> The following is way primative...
>
> I've often used sheet rock mud for one-off plugs. This is very porus
> stuff and if not sealed, it WILL become and integral part of the part.
>
> The main attraction is that it is very cheap and easy to work.
>
> For a mud plug I melt parafin (candle wax) in a double boiler (actually
> a tin can in a pot of boiling water) and paint it onto the plug. It
> will not be smooth - brush marks and drag lumps will look terrible.
>
> Next, a hot air gun is used to melt the excess off with a careful rub
> down while melted. This is to rub the wax into the surface - and burn
> your fingers if you stay at the party too long!
>
> Last, a couple of real good paste wax rubs.
> Then a smooth coat of paste wax before starting the lay up.
> Don't rub these paste wax coate _off_, tho.
>
> Note that this is a fairly risky proceedure - both for the plug
> and for the part. But it can work ok if you are careful and patient.
>
> If your mold is already smooth and not as porus, several good coats
> of wax might be ok.
>
> Does that help any?
>
> Richard

Richard, Thanks!!!

I'm using aluminum as a mold for the part I want to make.
It sounds like the wax may work like you suggest.
There's a couple of seams that I plan to tape off and don't really care
if the tape comes with the fiberglass when finished.


Thanks again for the help

Dave

[Richard Lamb]

wrote:
>
> Richard Lamb wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> >>i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
> >>but don't have time to order a release agent.
> >> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
> >>Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
> >>
> >>Any other suggestions?
> >>
> >>Thanks
> >>
> >>Dave
> >
> >
> > Almost anything that will seal the mold and keep the resin from
> > sticking will work. I use epoxy only for lay ups. Epoxy makes
> > pretty good glue. Something to keep in mind...
> >
> > The following is way primative...
> >
> > I've often used sheet rock mud for one-off plugs. This is very porus
> > stuff and if not sealed, it WILL become and integral part of the part.
> >
> > The main attraction is that it is very cheap and easy to work.
> >
> > For a mud plug I melt parafin (candle wax) in a double boiler (actually
> > a tin can in a pot of boiling water) and paint it onto the plug. It
> > will not be smooth - brush marks and drag lumps will look terrible.
> >
> > Next, a hot air gun is used to melt the excess off with a careful rub
> > down while melted. This is to rub the wax into the surface - and burn
> > your fingers if you stay at the party too long!
> >
> > Last, a couple of real good paste wax rubs.
> > Then a smooth coat of paste wax before starting the lay up.
> > Don't rub these paste wax coate _off_, tho.
> >
> > Note that this is a fairly risky proceedure - both for the plug
> > and for the part. But it can work ok if you are careful and patient.
> >
> > If your mold is already smooth and not as porus, several good coats
> > of wax might be ok.
> >
> > Does that help any?
> >
> > Richard
>
> Richard, Thanks!!!
>
> I'm using aluminum as a mold for the part I want to make.
> It sounds like the wax may work like you suggest.
> There's a couple of seams that I plan to tape off and don't really care
> if the tape comes with the fiberglass when finished.
>
> Thanks again for the help
>
> Dave

Duct tape, dude, duct tape.

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:48:19 GMT, Richard Lamb >
wrote:

>For a mud plug I melt parafin (candle wax) in a double boiler (actually
>a tin can in a pot of boiling water) and paint it onto the plug. It
>will not be smooth - brush marks and drag lumps will look terrible.
>
>Next, a hot air gun is used to melt the excess off with a careful rub
>down while melted. This is to rub the wax into the surface - and burn
>your fingers if you stay at the party too long!
>
>Last, a couple of real good paste wax rubs.
>Then a smooth coat of paste wax before starting the lay up.
>Don't rub these paste wax coate _off_, tho.
>
>Note that this is a fairly risky proceedure - both for the plug
>and for the part. But it can work ok if you are careful and patient.

My experience - I built some wingtip plugs using foam board. Covered
them with drywall mud and after final sanding, sealed them with
urethane varnish. The recommendation was to wax them thoroughly with
paste wax and I bought a tup specific for the purpose from Wicks and
proceeded to wax the plug three times, REALLY putting it on carefully
and then buffing it.

I used fiberglass and epoxy resin and wrapped the plug (it was one
half the wingtip, the top part).

The resin bonded quite nicely to the plug and I ripped the plug to
shreds pulling the fiberglass off it. Ruined the fiberglass too.

The missing ingredient? Some kind of release agent on top of the wax.
I bought some PVA from Wicks and the next effort worked fine, after
rebuilding the plug.

Barring a release agent, which you mentioned you do not have, and the
type of plug, if you can wrap the plug with Saran wrap, or something
very similar, it will not adhere to the resin and you can pull it
right off the plug. But if the Saran wrap doesn't fit to the plug
well (perhaps you have trough's to fill that the saran wrap won't lay
into well, then using the urethane tape will work too.

One trick I heard of was to use an air gun to blast between the plug
and the layup to get it to pop off. I tried that and had some success
with the second layup, but ended up using a thin flat stick to wedge
in and push and prod to get things to release.

Corky Scott

[B2431]

>Date: 7/8/2004 10:31 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:48:19 GMT, Richard Lamb >
>wrote:
>
>>For a mud plug I melt parafin (candle wax) in a double boiler (actually
>>a tin can in a pot of boiling water) and paint it onto the plug. It
>>will not be smooth - brush marks and drag lumps will look terrible.
>>
>>Next, a hot air gun is used to melt the excess off with a careful rub
>>down while melted. This is to rub the wax into the surface - and burn
>>your fingers if you stay at the party too long!
>>
>>Last, a couple of real good paste wax rubs.
>>Then a smooth coat of paste wax before starting the lay up.
>>Don't rub these paste wax coate _off_, tho.
>>
>>Note that this is a fairly risky proceedure - both for the plug
>>and for the part. But it can work ok if you are careful and patient.
>
>My experience - I built some wingtip plugs using foam board. Covered
>them with drywall mud and after final sanding, sealed them with
>urethane varnish. The recommendation was to wax them thoroughly with
>paste wax and I bought a tup specific for the purpose from Wicks and
>proceeded to wax the plug three times, REALLY putting it on carefully
>and then buffing it.
>
>I used fiberglass and epoxy resin and wrapped the plug (it was one
>half the wingtip, the top part).
>
>The resin bonded quite nicely to the plug and I ripped the plug to
>shreds pulling the fiberglass off it. Ruined the fiberglass too.
>
>The missing ingredient? Some kind of release agent on top of the wax.
>I bought some PVA from Wicks and the next effort worked fine, after
>rebuilding the plug.
>
>Barring a release agent, which you mentioned you do not have, and the
>type of plug, if you can wrap the plug with Saran wrap, or something
>very similar, it will not adhere to the resin and you can pull it
>right off the plug. But if the Saran wrap doesn't fit to the plug
>well (perhaps you have trough's to fill that the saran wrap won't lay
>into well, then using the urethane tape will work too.
>
>One trick I heard of was to use an air gun to blast between the plug
>and the layup to get it to pop off. I tried that and had some success
>with the second layup, but ended up using a thin flat stick to wedge
>in and push and prod to get things to release.
>
>Corky Scott

I once needed to make some fiberglass hemispheres. I found a lightbulb the
right size, sprayed some WD-40 on it, layed up some fiberglass and it realeased
nicely. I then used the fiberglass form to make several hemispheres using
WD-40 as a release agent.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Bruce A. Frank]

Many interesting suggestions. One that has worked for me is using a can
of "dry" lubricant. The type I used, can't remember the brand, goes on
leaving a tightly adhered powdery look. Several coatings were made after
the solvent flashed of each time. This stuff is designed for surfaces
that cannot tolerate oil that might attract dirt.

I have used this product to prevent sticking on both fiberglass lay-ups
and epoxy and silicone rubber castings.

Another product that I have used in a pinch is a product similar to
LPS3. It sprays on and leaves a thin waxy film (like paraffin) with no
contamination to the part. I think this stuff was originally intended to
protect guns in storage, leaving a dry non-smeary surface when the guns
were handled.

wrote:
>
> i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
> but don't have time to order a release agent.
> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
> Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

--
Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8/4.2L Engine and V-6 STOL
Homebuilt Aircraft Newsletter"
| Publishing interesting material|
| on all aspects of alternative |
| engines and homebuilt aircraft.|
*------------------------------**----*
\(-o-)/ AIRCRAFT PROJECTS CO.
\___/ Manufacturing parts & pieces
/ \ for homebuilt aircraft,
0 0 TIG welding

While trying to find the time to finish mine.

[Anthony]

"B2431" > wrote in message
...
> I once needed to make some fiberglass hemispheres. I found a lightbulb the
> right size, sprayed some WD-40 on it, layed up some fiberglass and it
realeased
> nicely. I then used the fiberglass form to make several hemispheres using
> WD-40 as a release agent.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I have a friend that uses the cooking spray PAM as a mold release. I've
never tried it but it works for him.

Tony

[Richard Lamb]

B2431 wrote:
>
> I once needed to make some fiberglass hemispheres. I found a lightbulb the
> right size, sprayed some WD-40 on it, layed up some fiberglass and it realeased
> nicely. I then used the fiberglass form to make several hemispheres using
> WD-40 as a release agent.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Shapes are where you find them.

The 'scoop' carb cover on my new cowling is from a 3 liter Dr. Pepper
bottle.

Richard

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 02:28:30 GMT, wrote:

>i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
>but don't have time to order a release agent.
> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
>Can I just use paste wax for the mold?

Carnauba (sp?) or most any paste wax that doesn't have silicones in
it.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>Any other suggestions?
>
>Thanks
>
>Dave
>
>

[Paul Lee]

Unless you got a lot of curvature, plastic 2" wide packing tape works great.
Or just enclose it in thin sheet plastic so that there are no creases.

wrote in message news:<ij2Hc.40976$a24.17578@attbi_s03>...
> i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
> but don't have time to order a release agent.
> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
> Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 03:37:46 GMT, wrote:

>
>
>Richard Lamb wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>i planning on building a few fiberglass pieces from a mold this weekend
>>>but don't have time to order a release agent.
>>> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
>>>Can I just use paste wax for the mold?
<snip>
>I'm using aluminum as a mold for the part I want to make.
>It sounds like the wax may work like you suggest.
>There's a couple of seams that I plan to tape off and don't really care
>if the tape comes with the fiberglass when finished.
>
Be careful with tape and resin. Some resins will dissolve the
adhesive which can affect the strength of the part. This is
particularly true of Vinyl Ester resin. (Dow Derakane)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>Thanks again for the help
>
>Dave

[Richard Lamb]

wrote:
>

> My experience - I built some wingtip plugs using foam board. Covered
> them with drywall mud and after final sanding, sealed them with
> urethane varnish. The recommendation was to wax them thoroughly with
> paste wax and I bought a tup specific for the purpose from Wicks and
> proceeded to wax the plug three times, REALLY putting it on carefully
> and then buffing it.
>
> I used fiberglass and epoxy resin and wrapped the plug (it was one
> half the wingtip, the top part).
>
> The resin bonded quite nicely to the plug and I ripped the plug to
> shreds pulling the fiberglass off it. Ruined the fiberglass too.
>
> The missing ingredient? Some kind of release agent on top of the wax.
> I bought some PVA from Wicks and the next effort worked fine, after
> rebuilding the plug.
>
> Barring a release agent, which you mentioned you do not have, and the
> type of plug, if you can wrap the plug with Saran wrap, or something
> very similar, it will not adhere to the resin and you can pull it
> right off the plug. But if the Saran wrap doesn't fit to the plug
> well (perhaps you have trough's to fill that the saran wrap won't lay
> into well, then using the urethane tape will work too.
>
> One trick I heard of was to use an air gun to blast between the plug
> and the layup to get it to pop off. I tried that and had some success
> with the second layup, but ended up using a thin flat stick to wedge
> in and push and prod to get things to release.
>
> Corky Scott

I've had problems with saran wrap, Corky.

The kitchen stuff is so thin that the simple mechanical bond will
stick it to the layup tight enough that the saran wrap stretches
and breaks before coming off.

Heavier stuff, something strong enough that it won't tear has worked
well for me. 10 mill or so?

Small pieces of kitchen wrap used to seal off air bubbles, and around
edges that want to stand up, and things like that have worked well.

But for large areas, I'd recommend something stronger.

Richard

[Richard Lamb]

Paul Lee wrote:
>
> Unless you got a lot of curvature, plastic 2" wide packing tape works great.
> Or just enclose it in thin sheet plastic so that there are no creases.
>

I've always wondered if small plugs could be covered with heat shrink
plastic like used at Blockbusters on video tapes.

Would sure get the wrinkles out.


Richard

[Don Lewis n FTW]

> From looking at the internet, most release agents are wax based products.
> Can I just use paste wax for the mold?


I would think 3 or 4 heavy coats buffed between each coat to a high gloss
would work OK.... 1 or 2 coats more coats between multiple parts...
Don L. n FTW