Soaring vs Indoor Karting.

[plasticguy]

Ok Guys. This is a spinoff of the entertainment thread.....

Indoor Karting is an economically viable business if you can fill the seats.
The usual race at the center I ran was $15 for 12 minutes of track time.
We figured 3 minutes to load the karts with the next race group. This gave
us
on paper, 4 race groups/hr. This is at full utilization. Reality is less
than full
run groups, and dead track time without racers. 4 employees needed.

If you compare this to an attemp to use 2 gliders on a 6 minute cycle time
to get 10 launches an hour at capacity, using 4 employees.....

Karting at capacity 10 karts/group, 4 grps/hr, $15 a ride..... $600 hr
gross.

Soaring at capacity, 10 rides/hr @ $15/ride..... $150/hr gross.

As you can see, it can't/won't work. It's a nice idea but the
numbers just aren't there.

Scott

[John Jones]

Very good analysis. Two things seem apparent:

First, based on your number, I would say one thing
needed would be to improve cycle time, say from 10
flights an hour to 16 flights an hour. Since there
are two planes, each plane has to make 8 flights an
hours, or a cycle time of 7.5 minutes. This would
push profits up to $240 per hour gross.

Seems reasonable if there are two adjacent launch areas
and two trucks for independent auto-tow.

Second, how does the capital investment between this
2 plane, 2 truck business compare with the capital
investment of the indoor cart track? For example,
buy two used 2-33's @$10,000 each and two used trucks
@$5,000 each and you have $20,000 invested. I would
assume this is a lot less than the building and track
costs for the karting. Labor and insurance cost might
be the same, but the airplane business would have no
heating/electrical bill/etc. associated with a brick-and-mortar
establishment. Point is, maybe the airplane business
does not need to gross as much since there is much
less overhead in paying off building loans. Any feel
of the difference in investment needed between the
cart track and the glider operation?

At 12:24 20 April 2004, Plasticguy wrote:
>Ok Guys. This is a spinoff of the entertainment thread.....
>
>Indoor Karting is an economically viable business if
>you can fill the seats.
>The usual race at the center I ran was $15 for 12 minutes
>of track time.
>We figured 3 minutes to load the karts with the next
>race group. This gave
>us
>on paper, 4 race groups/hr. This is at full utilization.
> Reality is less
>than full
>run groups, and dead track time without racers. 4
>employees needed.
>
>If you compare this to an attemp to use 2 gliders on
>a 6 minute cycle time
>to get 10 launches an hour at capacity, using 4 employees.....
>
>Karting at capacity 10 karts/group, 4 grps/hr, $15
>a ride..... $600 hr
>gross.
>
>Soaring at capacity, 10 rides/hr @ $15/ride.....
> $150/hr gross.
>
>As you can see, it can't/won't work. It's a nice idea
>but the
>numbers just aren't there.
>
>Scott
>
>
>

[plasticguy]

"John Jones" > wrote in message

> Very good analysis. Two things seem apparent:
>
> First, based on your number, I would say one thing
> needed would be to improve cycle time, say from 10
> flights an hour to 16 flights an hour. Since there
> are two planes, each plane has to make 8 flights an
> hours, or a cycle time of 7.5 minutes. This would
> push profits up to $240 per hour gross.
>
> Seems reasonable if there are two adjacent launch areas
> and two trucks for independent auto-tow.
>
> Second, how does the capital investment between this
> 2 plane, 2 truck business compare with the capital
> investment of the indoor cart track? For example,
> buy two used 2-33's @$10,000 each and two used trucks
> @$5,000 each and you have $20,000 invested. I would
> assume this is a lot less than the building and track
> costs for the karting. Labor and insurance cost might
> be the same, but the airplane business would have no
> heating/electrical bill/etc. associated with a brick-and-mortar
> establishment. Point is, maybe the airplane business
> does not need to gross as much since there is much
> less overhead in paying off building loans. Any feel
> of the difference in investment needed between the
> cart track and the glider operation?




The key to making it work is to be a FAMILY FUN CENTER.

This is where Soaring is doomed to failure. It is a LONE PARTICIPANT
GAME. Not family friendly. If you attempt to market it to
people by itself, it isn't going to happen.

Space lease is about 30K/mo
BUT you can operate until midmight, in the rain, in the wind,
under very controlled conditions. There are many many more
hours of operation available to you to recover your investment.
You also have to have OTHER STUFF there to occupy a
personstime and provide value to the customer.
Food, Music, Games I also seat 10 racers every 12 minutes.
When we get slammed, I can seat 50 racers/hr by hot seating the karts.
The best you can do with 2 gliders is 10 flyers/hr.

WHAT MAKES KARTING WORK is the competition between everybody on the track
and the adrenalin high you get. I can't see this happening in a sled ride
operation
where the guy in the seat is getting jazzed, but can't share it with anyone.
ESPECIALLY
when the rest of the family is on the ground waiting for little Johnny to
get down.

FEAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I can't see MOMS letting their kids into gliders.... It's hard enough to let
them let
kids go race. I really think a sailplane op is a non-starter.

Sorry

Scott.

[elZee]

For me the following is apparent ..

What you have to look at is the damage that occurs to each and every kart
everytime some Moron takes it out (and they will) and brings it back damaged. I've
seen a few Karting businesses and everyone starts out with nice neat clean Karts
and within a year they are crap and no fun to drive.

No such problem with a well run soaring organisation.

Secondly what is missing in Soaring is not bringing the X factor to the fore.
Everything now days is eXtreme .. so why isn't soaring?

How many of you have been ridge soaring? Can you get anymore eXtreme? How about
acrobatics?

Gliding doesn't just have to be silent gentle soaring around a gorgeous sky. How
about launching two gliders into a 'strong' day and competing in a small triangle
course .. gaggling in the same thermal, wing to wing. Is that eXtreme enough for
you?

OK .. there is risk involved and the potential of collision .. but that's the X
factor! ;)

I've always believed that Soaring is not targeted to the youth in our community ..
but then again maybe that's a good thing? ;)

Cheers,

elZee