Parachute repack questions

[Bill Daniels]

I'm going to watch my parachute get repacked this evening. The local Master
Rigger is teaching a rigging class and I'm invited to watch him repack my
'chute in front of the class.

Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?

Bill Daniels

[Bill Zaleski]

Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:

No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute that has not
been thoroughly dried and aired.

Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour airing.

Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.

Bill Z. Master Rigger




On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 20:38:37 GMT, "Bill Daniels" >
wrote:

>I'm going to watch my parachute get repacked this evening. The local Master
>Rigger is teaching a rigging class and I'm invited to watch him repack my
>'chute in front of the class.
>
>Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?
>
>Bill Daniels

[Bill Daniels]

"Bill Zaleski" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>
> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute that has not
> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>
> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour airing.
>
> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>
> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>

Now, why would you assume that? Do you have some reason to think that he
wouldn't comply? Is there something about your profession you want to tell
us?

I left it in his loft yesterday for drying.

Bill Daniels

[Nolaminar]

Ask him about aging canopy problems. Is there an official "striking" date/age
or is it left up to the individaul packer.
GA

[Jim Vincent]

>I'm invited to watch him repack my
>'chute in front of the class.
>
>Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?

On your own behalf, if you have never jumped, you can ask him where you can go
for a jump. Even if it is just a tandem jump, the experience itself will
answer many questions.

Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ

[Bill Daniels]

I did jump once. It did answer a lot of questions. Mainly, I learned that
I don't EVER want to do that again.

Bill Daniels

"Jim Vincent" > wrote in message
...
> >I'm invited to watch him repack my
> >'chute in front of the class.
> >
> >Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?
>
> On your own behalf, if you have never jumped, you can ask him where you
can go
> for a jump. Even if it is just a tandem jump, the experience itself will
> answer many questions.
>
> Jim Vincent
> CFIG
> N483SZ
>

[Bill Zaleski]

Perfect, Bill. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. It's just that I
have seen many times in 35 years of rigging that this rule is not
always observed or even thought of at times. Good luck with your
repack and flights!


On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 22:00:16 GMT, "Bill Daniels" >
wrote:

>
>"Bill Zaleski" > wrote in message
...
>> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>>
>> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute that has not
>> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>>
>> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour airing.
>>
>> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>>
>> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>>
>
>Now, why would you assume that? Do you have some reason to think that he
>wouldn't comply? Is there something about your profession you want to tell
>us?
>
>I left it in his loft yesterday for drying.
>
>Bill Daniels

[Eric Greenwell]

Jim Vincent wrote:
>>I'm invited to watch him repack my
>>'chute in front of the class.
>>
>>Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?
>
>
> On your own behalf, if you have never jumped, you can ask him where you can go
> for a jump. Even if it is just a tandem jump, the experience itself will
> answer many questions.

What questions do you think we should we have?

Here's a question I have: has there ever been a glider pilot that said
after jumping out of a glider, "Boy, I wished I'd had a practice jump"?

My impression is those that get out of the glider are generally
successful, and I suspect practicing that will be much more valuable
than an actual jump. Practice could include weights to simulate G loads,
which might make many of us decide we need some strength training.

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-----
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Marc Ramsey]

Eric Greenwell wrote:
> Here's a question I have: has there ever been a glider pilot that said
> after jumping out of a glider, "Boy, I wished I'd had a practice jump"?

I knew a couple of people who probably could have gotten out of the
glider, and survived, if they had tried, but they didn't. I did a few
static line jumps years ago, just to practice being willing to try...

Marc

[Eric Greenwell]

Marc Ramsey wrote:
> Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>> Here's a question I have: has there ever been a glider pilot that said
>> after jumping out of a glider, "Boy, I wished I'd had a practice jump"?
>
>
> I knew a couple of people who probably could have gotten out of the
> glider, and survived, if they had tried, but they didn't. I did a few
> static line jumps years ago, just to practice being willing to try...

Part of my thinking was practicing, really physically practicing exiting
the glider (meaning were you can actually jettision the canopy and roll
out, not just sit there and visualize it), and the thinking that goes
with it, might make a person more mentally ready to do it in a real
situation.

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-----
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Andy Durbin]

Eric Greenwell > wrote in message >...

>
> Part of my thinking was practicing, really physically practicing exiting
> the glider (meaning were you can actually jettision the canopy and roll
> out, not just sit there and visualize it), and the thinking that goes
> with it, might make a person more mentally ready to do it in a real
> situation.


Some people like to exit the glider by releasing the seat belts,
releasing the parachute harness, and stepping out without the chute.
I hope that primacy takes a back seat for an emergency exit.

Please always exit the glider *then* remove the parachute.



Andy

[Andy Durbin]

Bill Zaleski > wrote in message >...
> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>
> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute that has not
> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>
> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour airing.
>
> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>
> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>


I have had my chutes packed without 8 hour airing. I looked through
the manuals for my Strong 303 and my Security 350. Although both
manuals contain detailed packing instructions, I found no reference to
a required airing period. If an 8 hour airing is required where would
it be specified?


Andy

[Bill Daniels]

Unfortunately, the re-pack class was called off due to weather last night.

I agree with Andy and Eric, practicing cockpit egress is worthwhile. IMHO,
actually making a tandem or static line jump is not. A real jump puts you
at risk of a broken bone or two and the experience is not the same as a real
emergency jump anyway.

I've practiced egress with every glider I have flown while wearing a
parachute. I have found it usually takes a somewhat unorthodox exit
procedure. In my Nimbus, what works for me is to pull my legs out from
under the panel and swing the left leg over the side before trying to lift
myself up. That way by pulling with my left leg and pushing with my right,
my leg muscles can help pull me out. What works for your physique and your
cockpit will almost certainly be different.

I wish I could fit the CG NOAH inflatable seat cushion. That looks like a
real advance. Maybe, we need a "shorty" version of the air bag that would
raise the pilot into a seated position with his legs pulled out from under
the panel. Anything that would help the pilot get up out of that "bath tub"
would help.

Bill Daniels

"Andy Durbin" > wrote in message
om...
> Eric Greenwell > wrote in message
>...
>
> >
> > Part of my thinking was practicing, really physically practicing exiting
> > the glider (meaning were you can actually jettision the canopy and roll
> > out, not just sit there and visualize it), and the thinking that goes
> > with it, might make a person more mentally ready to do it in a real
> > situation.
>
>
> Some people like to exit the glider by releasing the seat belts,
> releasing the parachute harness, and stepping out without the chute.
> I hope that primacy takes a back seat for an emergency exit.
>
> Please always exit the glider *then* remove the parachute.
>
>
>
> Andy

[JohnD]

Have him show you how to perform a proper pin check and visual
inspection.

Every time we put our parachute on we should have performed this. I
have 1000's of parachute jumps and KNOW how important it is to do this
EVERY time and believe me I did it every time when I was using it
every time! I have known people who have died due to malfunctions
which would have been detected by a pin check.

Yet, even I do not do this every time now as a pilot, go figure. My
wife, who also has lots of jumps, busts me on it regularly. Bless her
heart.

I firmly believe that if we had a test at the next nationals less than
20% of the pilots would know how to perform a pin check and few if any
would admit they had performed one on the last 50 flights.

My point: Every time we have our 'chute repacked we should review our
pin check and inspection practices with our rigger. What benefit is
there to wearing it if it doesn't work? Just a small piece of gravel
in the cable housing can cause a total failure (ie: no parachute no
matter how hard you pull).

Visualize THAT. 'When ants look like people.....'


"Bill Daniels" > wrote in message news:<hZAhc.184310$JO3.104818@attbi_s04>...
> I'm going to watch my parachute get repacked this evening. The local Master
> Rigger is teaching a rigging class and I'm invited to watch him repack my
> 'chute in front of the class.
>
> Can I ask him any questions for r.a.s.?
>
> Bill Daniels

[Bill Zaleski]

It is an industry standard best practice and can be found in most of
the military and civilian documentaion. The word "thoroughly" as per
the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly an interval
specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have known and worked
with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you 8 hours minimum.
Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture content of the
fabric.


On 22 Apr 2004 07:01:16 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

>Bill Zaleski > wrote in message >...
>> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>>
>> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute that has not
>> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>>
>> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour airing.
>>
>> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>>
>> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>>
>
>
>I have had my chutes packed without 8 hour airing. I looked through
>the manuals for my Strong 303 and my Security 350. Although both
>manuals contain detailed packing instructions, I found no reference to
>a required airing period. If an 8 hour airing is required where would
>it be specified?
>
>
>Andy

[Eric Greenwell]

Bill Zaleski wrote:

> It is an industry standard best practice and can be found in most of
> the military and civilian documentaion. The word "thoroughly" as per
> the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly an interval
> specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have known and worked
> with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you 8 hours minimum.
> Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture content of the
> fabric.

Does it matter what the ambient humidity is? Florida can be 60%+
relative humidity and "airing" the chute might make it damper than a
chute kept in it's container in Tonopah, Nevada, or other low humidity
place.
--
-----
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Bill Zaleski]

I have never seen any mention of ambient humidity in relation to
airing/drying, but of course the % will effect it some. As long as it
is not noticably damp, I don't give it much consideration. Actually,
a humid day makes the packing much easier, as the pack volume is
decreased by the amount of air that you can squeeze out of the canopy.


On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 17:32:52 -0700, Eric Greenwell
> wrote:

>Bill Zaleski wrote:
>
>> It is an industry standard best practice and can be found in most of
>> the military and civilian documentaion. The word "thoroughly" as per
>> the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly an interval
>> specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have known and worked
>> with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you 8 hours minimum.
>> Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture content of the
>> fabric.
>
>Does it matter what the ambient humidity is? Florida can be 60%+
>relative humidity and "airing" the chute might make it damper than a
>chute kept in it's container in Tonopah, Nevada, or other low humidity
>place.

[Andy Durbin]

Bill Zaleski > wrote in message >...
> It is an industry standard best practice and can be found in most of
> the military and civilian documentaion. The word "thoroughly" as per
> the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly an interval
> specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have known and worked
> with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you 8 hours minimum.
> Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture content of the
> fabric.



How does the opening time vary with fabric moisture content? Does it
open faster dry or moist?



Andy

[Don Johnstone]

I am given to understand that the military when packing
a canopy into the head box of an ejector seat use a
hydaulic ram and they have to wet the canopy first.
Have I been misled?
The canopy in my parachute is identical to those used
by the RAF.

At 22:54 22 April 2004, Bill Zaleski wrote:
>It is an industry standard best practice and can be
>found in most of
>the military and civilian documentaion. The word 'thoroughly'
>as per
>the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly
>an interval
>specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have
>known and worked
>with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you
>8 hours minimum.
>Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture
>content of the
>fabric.
>
>
>On 22 Apr 2004 07:01:16 -0700,
>(Andy Durbin)
>wrote:
>
>>Bill Zaleski wrote in message news:...
>>> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>>>
>>> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute
>>>that has not
>>> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>>>
>>> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour
>>>airing.
>>>
>>> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>>>
>>> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>>>
>>
>>
>>I have had my chutes packed without 8 hour airing.
>>I looked through
>>the manuals for my Strong 303 and my Security 350.
>> Although both
>>manuals contain detailed packing instructions, I found
>>no reference to
>>a required airing period. If an 8 hour airing is required
>>where would
>>it be specified?
>>
>>
>>Andy
>
>

[Bill Zaleski]

A moist canopy will fill, (open), faster since the effective porosity
of the fabric is reduced. That sounds like a good thing, and it is,
unless you are making a terminal velocity opening. There are two
categorys of emergency parachute, low and hight speed. The breakoff
speed is 150 MPH. Gliders don't need the faster, more expensive
system, but if you delay the opening past the 150 speed, you become a
test jumper.


On 23 Apr 2004 03:59:34 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

>Bill Zaleski > wrote in message >...
>> It is an industry standard best practice and can be found in most of
>> the military and civilian documentaion. The word "thoroughly" as per
>> the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly an interval
>> specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have known and worked
>> with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you 8 hours minimum.
>> Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture content of the
>> fabric.
>
>
>
>How does the opening time vary with fabric moisture content? Does it
>open faster dry or moist?
>
>
>
>Andy

[Bill Zaleski]

I don't know about that speciality operation. That's not my area,
sorry.


On 23 Apr 2004 12:01:26 GMT, Don Johnstone
> wrote:

>I am given to understand that the military when packing
>a canopy into the head box of an ejector seat use a
>hydaulic ram and they have to wet the canopy first.
>Have I been misled?
>The canopy in my parachute is identical to those used
>by the RAF.
>
>At 22:54 22 April 2004, Bill Zaleski wrote:
>>It is an industry standard best practice and can be
>>found in most of
>>the military and civilian documentaion. The word 'thoroughly'
>>as per
>>the FAR's implies just that, and is not necessarilly
>>an interval
>>specifically specified by the manufacturer. I have
>>known and worked
>>with Ted Strong for over 20 years. He will tell you
>>8 hours minimum.
>>Opening (fill) time of the canopy varies with moisture
>>content of the
>>fabric.
>>
>>
>>On 22 Apr 2004 07:01:16 -0700,
>>(Andy Durbin)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Bill Zaleski wrote in message news:...
>>>> Yes, ask him how he is going to comply with the regulation:
>>>>
>>>> No certificated parachute rigger may pack a parachute
>>>>that has not
>>>> been thoroughly dried and aired.
>>>>
>>>> Normal manufacturer's instructions call for an 8 hour
>>>>airing.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps he is airing it in advance? Hope so.
>>>>
>>>> Bill Z. Master Rigger
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I have had my chutes packed without 8 hour airing.
>>>I looked through
>>>the manuals for my Strong 303 and my Security 350.
>>> Although both
>>>manuals contain detailed packing instructions, I found
>>>no reference to
>>>a required airing period. If an 8 hour airing is required
>>>where would
>>>it be specified?
>>>
>>>
>>>Andy
>>
>>
>
>