How to teach XC with lead/follow technique?

[[email protected]]

We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?

I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.

Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?

I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.

A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.

Chris

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:21:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?
>
> I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.
>
> Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?
>
> I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.
>
> A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.
>
> Chris

(my uninformed comments from somebody interested in this, not a leader)

What skill level is the student? Have they flown XC at all in a two seat ship?

I have a bias that XC novices are much better off making first XC flights in a 2 seat medium performance or better glider (i.e. L/D 40 to 1 or more). Clubs like BASA do a good job bringing people into XC with their DG-1000S, Morgan Hall with his Duo at Avenal, both utilizing a soaring "nursery" of relatively easy spring time soaring around Hollister and Avenal, CA.

My impression is many pilots first venturing out on XC really don't thermal well. Varies a lot by when and where they learnt to fly, some student may really just have almost no time thermalling before getting a license. Programs like the Air Sailing Thermalling camp seem a very good idea. Stuff where you are starting to push distance from the local gliderport and work on technique and judgment. Use the ABC badge program and maybe set a goal of local triangles around the gliderport before XC lead/follow...

(and I expect I'm preaching to the choir with the above comments anyhow).

Lead/follow can work one on one or one to few gliders. Issues I've seen are difference in ship performance which makes it frustrating for leader and follower. Another issue is lack of clarity on the plan for when things don't go well. And new pilots assuming they are following somebody around and there was no a super-clear clear commitment from the lead pilot--if there is the leader should be willing to hang in with the pilot struggling, pulling spoilers is the least of it, maybe land out with them if needed (help them on field selection etc.) , what is the retrieve plan, etc. Lots of things to work on together before the flight. And please STFU on the main radio frequencies, there is nothing more annoying than leaders and followers continuously jamming up common frequencies, work out how you are going to communicate at a sane level. Sure FLARM can help, but I think its far from needed especially one on one in relatively non-busy areas.

Try to get the student using a flight recorder and able to analyze their flights in SeeYou.

Do not underestimate the preparation work needed, helping the student loading the right waypoints or marking up a chart, understanding what the student is using for a soaring computer and talking though how they use it (making sure settings, polar etc. are sane). If folks are starting with a soaring computer they can easily overfixate on it.

Ramy Yanetz was an early mentor when I first started going cross country. One early one-on-one lead and follow was a huge help. And lots of flying in that area is technical understanding of convergence, local elevators, sea breeze etc.

Ramy also runs some friendly spring-time "races" which often end up more in group lead and follow where everybody is helping out everybody else and they are very good for newer XC pilots to participate in. Over the years it's been great to see things like Ramy leading a flock of ducklings across the Sacramento delta or be flying near Avenal and see Morgan Hall in his Duo Discus coming the other way with a flock of his ducklings in tow.

Now I've made it impossible for Ramy and Morgan not to reply here :-)

[Dave Nadler]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members.
> I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing
> a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any
> suggestions on how to best do it?

Before you even start XC, be careful that students are:
- not afraid and/or prone to panic
- proficient enough to execute an off-field landing without drama
- reasonably competent at thermalling, checked AT HOME
- practiced in gaggles AT HOME
- fluent with basic theory about STF and glides to a point.

Making assumptions about the above (as I did once) can be pretty scary.

Best would be BEFORE trying lead-follow, do some dual with each pilot:
- check the above thermalling, gaggle, STF skills
- do a dual XC. Blanik or above is quite adequate for basic XC training,
obviously a Duo is best.
- see if you can provoke overload; you don't want this to happen
during a lead-and-follow.

First and foremost task when training XC is MAKE SURE
student is always making proper assessments about potential
landing sites. Everything else is secondary!

Start with a very close-in triangle (best in gliding range of
home and/or a couple other airports).

Hope that helps!
Best Regards, Dave

PS: It is very easy to assume capabilities we take for granted,
and have student get in a bad spot...

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?
>
> I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.
>
> Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?
>
> I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.
>
> A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.
>
> Chris

Hmmmm. There's an article (or two) in the answer I have in mind. We (the Post Mills guys) should write it. We've done enough of it to have an idea of what works... and where it can go wrong.

Abbreviated version: certain essentials must be present. Student must climb well and orient well. Must be able to share a thermal. Must be ready to cope with landings at other airports or in good fields. Teacher must be committed to the mission of the day and needs to set personal goals (e.g. OLC points) completely aside. Pair flying works better than lead & follow. Briefing and de-briefing are essential. The brief needs to concentrate heavily on risk management and risk mitigation.

When prerequisites are met and things go well, this is very satisfying. When the student isn't quite ready and/or the teacher would really rather be racking up some monster OLC flight, not so much.

There are many variations on this theme that can be constructed. Many work well.

Happy to discuss off line.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> And please STFU on the main radio frequencies, there is nothing more annoying than leaders and
> followers continuously jamming up common frequencies, work out how you are going to communicate
> at a sane level. Sure FLARM can help, but I think its far from needed especially one on one in relatively
> non-busy areas.

Anybody used FRS with VOX for something like this?

For example:
https://smile.amazon.com/Midland-GXT1000VP4-36-Mile-50-Channel-Two-Way/dp/B001WMFYH4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1507084178&sr=8-8&keywords=frs

5Z

[Scott Williams]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:31:19 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 5:29:44 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > And please STFU on the main radio frequencies, there is nothing more annoying than leaders and
> > followers continuously jamming up common frequencies, work out how you are going to communicate
> > at a sane level. Sure FLARM can help, but I think its far from needed especially one on one in relatively
> > non-busy areas.
>
> Anybody used FRS with VOX for something like this?
>
> For example:
> https://smile.amazon.com/Midland-GXT1000VP4-36-Mile-50-Channel-Two-Way/dp/B001WMFYH4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1507084178&sr=8-8&keywords=frs
>
> 5Z

Another really good tool for beginner xc pilots is a 50 kilometer triangle with the home field at the center.
The Kansas Soaring Assc. has one of these at Sunflower. It is a great idea in that the three legs are close to equal in distance, for the middle of each leg the home field is reassuringly close, and 50 k is a reasonable triangle distance without being a total Gimmie. Increased difficulty can easily be added by multiple laps of the course. also once a pilot is comfortable with the local 50k triangle, scaling up to longer tasks is less intimidating than a straight out departure with the home field disappearing behind you!

Scott

[[email protected]]

We call it the "Drag and drop"! Just saying, necessity is the mother of invention. in this case getting home. Miss the good ole days of having to land out to get a silver badge.

[Darryl Ramm]

Oh well somebody does triangles in Kansas....

(Good luck Tony :-))

[Tim Taylor]

Chris,

I have been teaching this way for about 20 years. It can work well and also fail spectacularly.

It is best to establish very clear ground rules for both the student and the teacher. Understanding what is expected from both should be worked out on the ground before the flight.

The student should not be a new xc pilot. He/she should have some xc experience with local flights of 15 to 20 miles and be able to thermal and stay up for several hours by themselves. I recommend a bronze badge at a minimum.. They must be comfortable landing in varied conditions and mentally ready to land out.

The leader must be ready to landout with the student. More than a few hundred feet vertical is useless in lead/follow. I have had many days where I have burned 10,000 to 20,000 feet during a flight with the spoilers out. If the student is down to 1000 feet over a field the leader has to be willing to go down and try to help them get up or be willing to show where to land.. The student can be very unpredictable and the leader must be ready for many different reactions. Some students will express the desire to learn xc but when it comes down to it they will get extremely nervous as soon as you start to get out of range of the airport.

On first flights I would only recommend 1:1. When the students have gained skills it is possible to work with 1:2.

Tim

[Frank Whiteley]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 9:56:57 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> We call it the "Drag and drop"! Just saying, necessity is the mother of invention. in this case getting home. Miss the good ole days of having to land out to get a silver badge.

Cliff,

That's coming back I believe, in the Oct 2018 rules if I read the IGC plenary tweets correctly.

Frank Whiteley

[AS]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 1:21:58 AM UTC+2, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?
>
> I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.
>
> Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?
>
> I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.
>
> A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.
>
> Chris

Although not (yet) a flight instructor, I took several students around local small courses in my two-seat glider. Sitting side-by-side is a real advantage for that kind of initial training since you can point out things much easier while looking at the same set of instruments.
Many clubs in Europe use modern TMGs for that purpose.
Uli
'AS'

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

Don't mean to blow our owm trumpet here, but many of the practical issues with gaggle flying, following, heights etc can be practiced in Condor.

[Tango Eight]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 5:14:27 AM UTC-4, Chris Wedgwood wrote:
> Don't mean to blow our owm trumpet here, but many of the practical issues with gaggle flying, following, heights etc can be practiced in Condor.

Don't mean to pop your bubble, but if any of those things need to be practiced, the pair is hopelessly unready for the real world.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I have done this. The student must be a competent thermal flyer. and the most important part is to leave each thermal together.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 4:21:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?
>
> I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.
>
> Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?
>
> I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.
>
> A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.
>
> Chris

[[email protected]]

I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
+++ 2 place flight with student is an excellent first step. Student fly the same route, solo the next day.
+++ do it on good soaring days with low wind.
+++ if flying with a lead pilot, launch together with instructor first.
+++ use different frequencies.
+++ instructor be willing to pull spoilers and go down to save student......"get right on my tail and do everything I do".
+++ stay loose, as it has the potential to become a very disorganized cluster-f***
Have fun,
JJ

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 3, 2017 at 7:21:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> We are trying to help teach XC to our fellow club members. I've heard of the Lead/Follow technique with an experienced pilot showing a student how to get around a course. Before we try it, are there any suggestions on how to best do it?
>
> I've heard that if the leader is higher up or in a higher performance glider it is good to sometimes pull the spoilers and get down to the level of the student.
>
> Should it be a 1:1 leader/follower ratio or can you have more than 1 follower?
>
> I suppose a good talk on how to enter/exit and thermal together is the first thing - since they may not have flown gaggles before.
>
> A portable flarm would be good to add to the student's gliders just to be able to track them.
>
> Chris

I try to get a flight or 2 doing short XC in the '21 to get some basic skills in place.
Gotta be able to fly a round circle in lift with good speed control.
Basic speed to fly theory.
Orientation and navigation.
Glide range estimating
Confidence that it isn't black art.
After that, if so inclined, they are ready for modest escorted flight.

It is almost impossible to figure out and correct what an XC beginner is doing wrong, and guide improvement, from another ship.
I've tried it both ways.

UH

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
> ...
> +++ use different frequencies.

- yup we've done that around here some times. Made it hard to hear each other :-)

How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

[[email protected]]

Moshe these work well and are robust http://www.pryme.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2231 Just have to make sure you have the right plug. I have a set I can bring to the airport if you want to play with them.
> How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

[Scott Manley[_2_]]

The airlines, military, and professional flight training businesses all understand that flight training (teaching/learning) is best done using simulation. All the fundamental skill prerequisites for XC, mentioned above, and all the XC-specific skills can be learned more efficiently and effectively in simulation.

That said, flight simulation is an instruction a tool. It is not a substitute for a qualified instructor. And, flight simulation is not the entire solution to the problem (only about 80% of the solution). It is the best environment for "learning" what needs to be learned. The aircraft is the best environment for "applying" what has been learned in simulation.

My recommendation is to use simulation to teach XC candidates what they need to know. Have them demonstrate required skills, knowledge, and judgement in simulation before wasting anyone's time/money in an actual aircraft.

By the way, all of advise given in this thread is great stuff. Nearly all of it could be incorporated into a simulation-based XC instructional program, today, and at little or no cost.

Simulation-based training can be done in groups. It can be done at any time of the day, any day of the week, and any time of year. It is not dependent on the availability of equipment (tow planes, two-place XC-capable gliders). It is not weather-dependent. It can be done at-a-distance, i.e., online with students and instructors being anywhere in the country.

And at the top of my simulation-based advantages is the opportunity to build mental experience. Flying is largely a mental exercise; knowing what to do, how to do it, and perhaps most importantly when to do something. Simulation affords the learner the time and opportunity to acquire the level of mental experience that creates safe, competent pilots.

The challenge, of course, is the reluctance of instructors to adopt simulation as a teaching/learning environment. I have yet to find a solution to that unfortunate reality.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 9:51:07 PM UTC+3, wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > I have been a lead pilot several times over the years and offer the following.........
> > ...
> > +++ use different frequencies.
>
> - yup we've done that around here some times. Made it hard to hear each other :-)
>
> How do you deal with the dearth of available frequencies? (There are 720 of them, and we only get 2?) Some people use some other frequencies in the av band that are not "official". I've tried using some old Sprint cellphones with the Direct Talk feature, they work as walkie-talkies (peer to peer, no cell towers involved). Free from the congestion on the FRS bands. The stumbling block so far has been finding/making suitable PTT headsets. And they don't do VOX.

Interestingly, the US Hang Gliding and Parachuting organisation has got themselves five chat frequencies assigned in the "Business" band! 151.625 MHz, 151.955 MHz, 151.505 MHz, 158.400 MHz, and 151.925 MHz

That's out of the range of airband radios.

[Dan Marotta]

I agree with every thing you said except that simulation can never
generate that gut wrenching, oh **** feeling, when things don't work
out.Â* Of course, a better prepared pilot will be less likely to get into
those situations due to repetition and better judgment learned during
simulation.Â* (Hopefully).

On 10/4/2017 3:21 PM, Scott Manley wrote:
> The airlines, military, and professional flight training businesses all understand that flight training (teaching/learning) is best done using simulation. All the fundamental skill prerequisites for XC, mentioned above, and all the XC-specific skills can be learned more efficiently and effectively in simulation.
>
> That said, flight simulation is an instruction a tool. It is not a substitute for a qualified instructor. And, flight simulation is not the entire solution to the problem (only about 80% of the solution). It is the best environment for "learning" what needs to be learned. The aircraft is the best environment for "applying" what has been learned in simulation.
>
> My recommendation is to use simulation to teach XC candidates what they need to know. Have them demonstrate required skills, knowledge, and judgement in simulation before wasting anyone's time/money in an actual aircraft.
>
> By the way, all of advise given in this thread is great stuff. Nearly all of it could be incorporated into a simulation-based XC instructional program, today, and at little or no cost.
>
> Simulation-based training can be done in groups. It can be done at any time of the day, any day of the week, and any time of year. It is not dependent on the availability of equipment (tow planes, two-place XC-capable gliders). It is not weather-dependent. It can be done at-a-distance, i.e., online with students and instructors being anywhere in the country.
>
> And at the top of my simulation-based advantages is the opportunity to build mental experience. Flying is largely a mental exercise; knowing what to do, how to do it, and perhaps most importantly when to do something. Simulation affords the learner the time and opportunity to acquire the level of mental experience that creates safe, competent pilots.
>
> The challenge, of course, is the reluctance of instructors to adopt simulation as a teaching/learning environment. I have yet to find a solution to that unfortunate reality.
>
> Respectfully submitted for your consideration.

--
Dan, 5J

[Darryl Ramm]

I wish more clubs/operations would try out simulator based training. For some folk it seems to be a technology thing, don't know how to touch it/frightened of the technology, some cost, some worried about financial loss/billing for time etc. I expect people who can incorporate that into training and XC training programs will be overall more successful in the long term.

[[email protected]]

Years ago, Erik Mann and some other folks ran a series of spring XC days at PGC (Philadelphia Glider Council) that included a morning lecture from experienced pilots (Roy McMaster was one). They had lined up a bunch of experienced pilots to play lead/follow with about a dozen "students" of varying skill levels. IIRC, the higher the skill level of the students, the higher the skill level of the leader. A couple of guys got to follow Doug Jacobs around for a while! Also, IIRC, the ideal students/leader ratio declined with experience, as did the distance from the gliderport and other factors. The gliders were not all the same performance but weren't so far apart that it made flying together impossible.

Two things I recall:
1. Pulling dive brakes more than once to lead one of my charges around a thermal at lower altitude. The gap between leader and followers seemed to expand steadily based on everything from differences between sailplanes, to climbing not as well, to failing to leave the thermal immediately, to flying a little slower to just be safe, and to stopping for a turn or two in a weak thermal for the same reason. And, yes, thermaling skills tended to deteriorate as altitude declined and anxiety mounted. I suspect using simulators would have helped a lot! But there's just no substitute for getting low out of gliding range from an airport. :)

2. Less experienced students were very nervous about final glides, even with high arrival altitudes, if they couldn't see the home airport (not unusual back East). This was just on the leading edge of the GPS era so that may have changed. But sometimes we forget what a leap of faith is required to turn your back on the home airport, to pass up a weak thermal even when you've got altitude and good prospects ahead, to cruise faster than best glide, and to commit to a final glide based strictly on some calculations and the promise that the finish is out of site but reachable.

On at least one occasion, the organizers had managed to suggest enough alternate air-to-air frequencies that we could keep in touch with our students without annoying the rest of the fleet.

I thoroughly enjoyed myself and the feedback we got was almost universally high. I don't recall any outlandings but we got lucky on the wx. We did it early enough in the season that no one had to forgo a record day. Participation in local contests and in the Governor's Cup series that summer rose as a result.

Yes, it's an investment. But it's fun for everyone and doesn't cost much, if anything. The organizational burden is the biggest one: arranging for a venue--including a classroom as well as gliderport (and whatever machinations are needed to launch non-club members), making sure there are enough towplanes to get everyone launched fairly quickly even while a training operating is going on, getting the word out and then getting firm commitments, etc.. Erik has great enthusiasm as well as a high tolerance for frustration for these kinds of organized efforts but not everyone does.

Chip Bearden

[[email protected]]

I was taught this way: I had barely medium thermal skills and a new to me 44:1 ship. Our group usually picks an airport 20-40 miles away and flies there, and then the next and so on. I could never keep up. On my first flight in my new ship, a (older, uglier) friend in a 50:1 ship followed me to the first TP giving advice from my 6:00. He'd say "deviate to that xxx cloud at 1:30, but don't circle, just do slow "S" turns in the lift (because we were still high). Later he'd say "veer to the the dark cloud at 11:00 and if the lift is 3 knots or greater, circle there, otherwise keep going". When I was 75% of the way to the first turn point, he told me to turn to the next TP early (the rest of the guys were ahead of us by several miles). He went to TP1 and abandoned me for awhile. The gang caught up to me 1/2 way to TP2, passed me and I never saw any of them again, but I had learned enough to get around a couple more TPs and get home. I went from helpless to mediocre in about 25 miles on the way to TP1. The comments on thermal skills are probably the most important skill any newbie needs. If new pilot has thermal skills (finding and circling technique), he/she can fly XC. Thanks to F1 for feeding my addiction.

[George Haeh]

Finding and connecting with thermals is the prerequisite XC skill. Once you

have that, the rest of the learning can begin.

Digging yourself out of holes, most preferably with a good field in reach,
is
useful. Much better is staying out of the holes.

Winch is good practice for finding and catching thermals low down.

[RR]

I have helped "fledge" a number of pilots this way. But when we lead follow, I follow. You can advise, suggest, and correct from behind. If necessary, you can pop the spoilers, and direct up close and personal.

I have since bought into a piece of a duo and done dual instruction in that.. Each has its advantages. But in our club, our club gliders are 1-34 ish performance, when you take someone along for a ride in the duo, the get a great introduction in what is possible, but take away, "what us possible in a duo". If you lead follow in their glider, they know it is possible for them.

Keep in mind, that as a middle of the score sheet guy, I am not teaching racing strategy, but trying to get capable pilot to venture out of glide from home. I am looking for the maximum success experience. Make it around the course, useing the 3 golden rules:

Get high
Stay high
And don't get low

Most importantly, fly to the next airport when safe, now this is home. Rinse repeat.

These are folks that are without there silver. If it takes 5 hrs to do there 50k, all the better;-)

Once over there jitters, work on speed.

So dual, in damn near anything to work on thermaling, then follow / lead. Works really well...

RR

[Scott Manley[_2_]]

XC Training Enthusiasts,

For your consideration, here is another excellent XC training resource developed by Eric Carden, incorporating self-study and glider flight simulation (Condor).

https://sites.google.com/site/thermalxc/Home.

[Papa3[_2_]]

On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 at 6:24:18 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Years ago, Erik Mann and some other folks ran a series of spring XC days at PGC (Philadelphia Glider Council) that included a morning lecture from experienced pilots (Roy McMaster was one). They had lined up a bunch of experienced pilots to play lead/follow with about a dozen "students" of varying skill levels. IIRC, the higher the skill level of the students, the higher the skill level of the leader. A couple of guys got to follow Doug Jacobs around for a while! Also, IIRC, the ideal students/leader ratio declined with experience, as did the distance from the gliderport and other factors. The gliders were not all the same performance but weren't so far apart that it made flying together impossible.
>
> Two things I recall:
> 1. Pulling dive brakes more than once to lead one of my charges around a thermal at lower altitude. The gap between leader and followers seemed to expand steadily based on everything from differences between sailplanes, to climbing not as well, to failing to leave the thermal immediately, to flying a little slower to just be safe, and to stopping for a turn or two in a weak thermal for the same reason. And, yes, thermaling skills tended to deteriorate as altitude declined and anxiety mounted. I suspect using simulators would have helped a lot! But there's just no substitute for getting low out of gliding range from an airport. :)
>
> 2. Less experienced students were very nervous about final glides, even with high arrival altitudes, if they couldn't see the home airport (not unusual back East). This was just on the leading edge of the GPS era so that may have changed. But sometimes we forget what a leap of faith is required to turn your back on the home airport, to pass up a weak thermal even when you've got altitude and good prospects ahead, to cruise faster than best glide, and to commit to a final glide based strictly on some calculations and the promise that the finish is out of site but reachable.
>
> On at least one occasion, the organizers had managed to suggest enough alternate air-to-air frequencies that we could keep in touch with our students without annoying the rest of the fleet.
>
> I thoroughly enjoyed myself and the feedback we got was almost universally high. I don't recall any outlandings but we got lucky on the wx. We did it early enough in the season that no one had to forgo a record day. Participation in local contests and in the Governor's Cup series that summer rose as a result.
>
> Yes, it's an investment. But it's fun for everyone and doesn't cost much, if anything. The organizational burden is the biggest one: arranging for a venue--including a classroom as well as gliderport (and whatever machinations are needed to launch non-club members), making sure there are enough towplanes to get everyone launched fairly quickly even while a training operating is going on, getting the word out and then getting firm commitments, etc. Erik has great enthusiasm as well as a high tolerance for frustration for these kinds of organized efforts but not everyone does.
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> Chip Bearden

I was looking for my notes on these events just the other day. Chip and several other posters upstream cover a lot of it. A few other thoughts:

- Doing this as a group event with organized briefings and discussion really helped to get people in the right frame of mind.
- The goals need to be aligned with the experience level of the students. For some folks, a tiny triangle was a HUGE achievement. For others, breaking 40 miles an hour over 100K was the goal.
- Don't expect miracles. From memory, I believe we brought 25 students through the program over a couple of years. Fewer than half of them "stuck" in any meaningful way in the long term.

Just a little illustration of what to expect. My student was an experienced B-24 pilot, very active CFI-G, and owner of an ASW-19. The man could aviate! Every time we met, he talked about how "this year" was the year he would really get into XC. In his early 70s, I suspect he knew there wasn't a lot of time left to take up serious XC.

The day he and I flew was a really good one. 6,000 foot bases with honest cu, 5kt lift, and light NW breezes. He thermalled well, knew exactly where he was at all times, and really followed great radio discipline. We hopped a few clouds upwind about 15 miles then decided to head back for a start.. From 6,000 feet on a solid cloudstreet I headed off at 90kts. After a minute or two I asked where he was. "I stopped to climb". I backtracked and found him 200 feet higher circling in 1kt. I convinced him to follow me, and off I went.

Couple miles later and an S-turn or two showed no sigh of him. I asked again. His response "I stopped to climb." This scene played out several more times until we finally decided to just have fun flying within easy final glide of the home drome.

In the debrief, I asked him why he felt the need to climb when we had a 5:1 glide home with a tailwind? Intellectually, he knew the answer, but he just couldn't break old habits and simply wasn't comfortable out of glide range of the home airport. It wasn't going to change, and he still had a lot of fun continuing to hone his thermalling skills and teaching for his club.