V3 at the 2018 convention?

[SF]

Just curious after it missed the last convention.

[Dan Marotta]

I have it on good authority that it will be there.

On 10/20/2017 6:12 PM, SF wrote:
> Just curious after it missed the last convention.

--
Dan, 5J

[Sean Fidler]

As will the JS3.

[Tony[_5_]]

We probably all could've seen the V3 in 2017, IF THERE HAD BEEN A CONVENTION...

[Darryl Ramm]

SSA 2019 Convention in Witchita then...

[SF]

Any of you guys keeping up with how its been doing in competition. The methodology of choosing the wing profile seemed similar to how the Duck Hawk's wing profile was chosen, and that didn't seem to work out well commercially.

[[email protected]]

Seriously?

[Renny[_2_]]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 2:22:59 PM UTC-6, SF wrote:
> Any of you guys keeping up with how its been doing in competition. The methodology of choosing the wing profile seemed similar to how the Duck Hawk's wing profile was chosen, and that didn't seem to work out well commercially.

SF - Just go to the Schempp-Hirth website and you will see that the new Ventus has been doing just fine in competition. It began in January at the WGC in Benalla where, in the 18m competition, four of the seven participating new Ventus gliders finished in the top ten (including a 2nd place finish). There were many successes during the summer and it finished up in September where, from the S-H website: "Congratulations to Wolfgang Janowitsch for winning the 19th European Championships at Lasham, UK, in the 18m Class, with Mike Young finishing 2nd and Bert Schmelzer 3rd, all on the new Ventus."

It seem to me that their new wing profile is working out very well and it is performing as designed. This might also help explain the long wait time when ordering a new Ventus. Thx - Renny

[Dave Springford]

On Sunday, 22 October 2017 16:22:59 UTC-4, SF wrote:
> Any of you guys keeping up with how its been doing in competition.

At the risk of offending the JS3 fanboys with the impressive Ventus 3 results, here goes:

WGC 2016(7) Benalla: 2nd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 11th, 27th, 33rd

Italian Grand Prix: 1st, 2nd, 3rd

UK 18m Nationals: 1st

Austrian 18m Nationals: 1st

Swedish 18m Nationals: 1st

Swedish Open Nationals: 1st

German 18m Nationals: 1st, 3rd, 22nd

European Championships 18m: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 13th

[Ernst]

On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 6:14:15 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford wrote:
> On Sunday, 22 October 2017 16:22:59 UTC-4, SF wrote:

> At the risk of offending the JS3 fanboys with the impressive Ventus 3 results, here goes:
>


Okay, sell those old ASG 29 / ASW 27-18 and pull out your check book.

Ernst

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 01:46 23 October 2017, Ernst wrote:
>On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 6:14:15 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford
wrote:
>> On Sunday, 22 October 2017 16:22:59 UTC-4, SF wrote:
>
>> At the risk of offending the JS3 fanboys with the impressive Ventus
3
>results, here goes:
>>
>
>
>Okay, sell those old ASG 29 / ASW 27-18 and pull out your check
book.
>
>Ernst
>

One way of losing weight to fit in that teeny weeny cockpit. At least
with the JS3 and ASG-29 - 33? you don't need to be a stick insect or
jockey to fly them.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 12:30:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> At 01:46 23 October 2017, Ernst wrote:
> >On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 6:14:15 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford
> wrote:
> >> On Sunday, 22 October 2017 16:22:59 UTC-4, SF wrote:
> >
> >> At the risk of offending the JS3 fanboys with the impressive Ventus
> 3
> >results, here goes:
> >>
> >
> >
> >Okay, sell those old ASG 29 / ASW 27-18 and pull out your check
> book.
> >
> >Ernst
> >
>
> One way of losing weight to fit in that teeny weeny cockpit. At least
> with the JS3 and ASG-29 - 33? you don't need to be a stick insect or
> jockey to fly them.

The V 3 appears to still has the same fuselage from the vertical fin forward of the ventus a. Same silly side hinged canopy. They say it has been re-designed, but i suspect the redesign does not include any outside dimension or shape changes. Interesting to note that Jonkers believes airfoils have reach an apex until a new technology, so they believe the gains and low hanging fruit are in the fuselage designs. The Ventus 3 is the oldest fuselage of the three.

[Richard Pfiffner[_2_]]

On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 5:48:16 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 12:30:08 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> > At 01:46 23 October 2017, Ernst wrote:
> > >On Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 6:14:15 PM UTC-5, Dave Springford
> > wrote:
> > >> On Sunday, 22 October 2017 16:22:59 UTC-4, SF wrote:
> > >
> > >> At the risk of offending the JS3 fanboys with the impressive Ventus
> > 3
> > >results, here goes:
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >Okay, sell those old ASG 29 / ASW 27-18 and pull out your check
> > book.
> > >
> > >Ernst
> > >
> >
> > One way of losing weight to fit in that teeny weeny cockpit. At least
> > with the JS3 and ASG-29 - 33? you don't need to be a stick insect or
> > jockey to fly them.
>
> The V 3 appears to still has the same fuselage from the vertical fin forward of the ventus a. Same silly side hinged canopy. They say it has been re-designed, but i suspect the redesign does not include any outside dimension or shape changes. Interesting to note that Jonkers believes airfoils have reach an apex until a new technology, so they believe the gains and low hanging fruit are in the fuselage designs. The Ventus 3 is the oldest fuselage of the three.

At least the silly side hinged canopy does not burn up the glider.

Richard

[[email protected]]

And in how many of those did the J3 take part in 18m class?

[[email protected]]

Jonathan, judging from the huge amount of design effort that JS put into the JS3 fuselage any gains can hardly be considered "low hanging fruit" (!) but you could say that about its reduced wing area and very high max wing loading. It's a safe bet to say that the JS3 will be superb in strong conditions but pilots are going to have to be very conscious of the need to make sure that tow pilots maintain adequate speed.

[krasw]

It would be interesting to know why JS went only half-way to fully optimized wing-fuselage intersection that Mu31 has. Maybe they couldn't solve practical problems of ground handling (Mu31 has 3 part wing) or mass production?

The Schempp's "redesigned, roomier a-fuselage" is getting bit tired after so many years of repetition. It has same shape that was introduced with Ventus-a in early 80's. I simply can not understand how they can build roomier cockpit that has identical shape and material thickness of few millimeters. Sure you can redesign everything that's inside fuselage shell but it is still the same tiny fuselage that fits 70% scale pilot.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I wonder why S-H put took up panel space for tow cable release. Schleicher has had the tow release on the cockpit sidewall since the early 1990's when the ASW-24 was designed. I know in my glider my pane is completely full, and the older I get the larger screen I want on my computer. I certainly hope if S-H has a follow on to their Quintus they will put the release off the panel but high on cockpit sidewall.

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 4:06:58 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> It would be interesting to know why JS went only half-way to fully optimized wing-fuselage intersection that Mu31 has. Maybe they couldn't solve practical problems of ground handling (Mu31 has 3 part wing) or mass production?
>
> The Schempp's "redesigned, roomier a-fuselage" is getting bit tired after so many years of repetition. It has same shape that was introduced with Ventus-a in early 80's. I simply can not understand how they can build roomier cockpit that has identical shape and material thickness of few millimeters. Sure you can redesign everything that's inside fuselage shell but it is still the same tiny fuselage that fits 70% scale pilot.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, 24 October 2017 15:25:39 UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> I wonder why S-H put took up panel space for tow cable release. Schleicher has had the tow release on the cockpit sidewall since the early 1990's when the ASW-24 was designed. I know in my glider my pane is completely full, and the older I get the larger screen I want on my computer. I certainly hope if S-H has a follow on to their Quintus they will put the release off the panel but high on cockpit sidewall.
>
The Schleicher (+JS1) release position on the sidewall is definitely the best. I think the knob is on the panel of the smaller Ventus "Sport" cockpit because the folded-up-when-not-in-use airbrake handle would obstruct access to the release which would have to be directly in front of it if it was on the sidewall. At least they have moved it from the dangerous position to the left of the base of the stick in older SH gliders (including the Quintus) - drop the right wing on take off, stick to left, knock hand off or block the release. Critical on a winch launch.

Don't know where the release is going to be on the long awaited larger Ventus "Performance" fuselage - the mock-up cockpit pictures from the AERO exhibition don't seem to show a release but it does have a downwards pointing airbrake handle so hopefully the release will go in the proper place.

[[email protected]]

The release and pedal adjustments are below my panel on my Ventus.

Dennis
DC