Wiggly amps

[Don Johnstone]

There have been many suggestions over the past few
months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
most of them requiring electrical power.

The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
collision warnings and thermal predictors.
We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
I probably have not mentioned them all.

My question: Where is the power coming from to run
all these devices?

[Bill Daniels]

"Don Johnstone" > wrote in
message ...
> There have been many suggestions over the past few
> months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
> most of them requiring electrical power.
>
> The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
> collision warnings and thermal predictors.
> We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
> horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
> I probably have not mentioned them all.
>
> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> all these devices?
>
>

Available power is a constraint. However, there have always been ways
around it.

The current crop of electronics consumes much less power than previous
generations. Heavy steel oxygen systems are being replaced by very
efficient systems like the MH electronic pulse demand system. I'm carrying
less battery weight than ever while using more electronics.

Bill Daniels

[COLIN LAMB]

This solar panel works well - or a bigger battery.


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[Herbert Kilian]

Don Johnstone > wrote in message >...
> There have been many suggestions over the past few
> months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
> most of them requiring electrical power.
>
> The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
> collision warnings and thermal predictors.
> We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
> horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
> I probably have not mentioned them all.
>
> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> all these devices?

Don,

I just did some weight tests on my digital scale to determine the
difference between the common Lead/Acid gelcells we all have used for
decades and the NiMH cells I bought to power a Becker transponder.
Lead/Acid weighs 338g/AH while the NiMH technology shows 205g/AH or
60% of the older technology. Volume ratios are also around the 60%
mark plus you can wire the NiMH cells (I bought 4000 mAH or C-size
cells) any way you like to make a convenient shape.
Charging of NiMH cells is done with the equipment the model-aiplane
folks use, you can even quick-charge them.
There are of course even lighter and more compact technologies around
(Li-ion) but I have no experience with them.

Herbert, J7

[Phil Jeffery]

Why ask such a stupid question when you know very well?

"Don Johnstone" > wrote in
message ...
> There have been many suggestions over the past few
> months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
> most of them requiring electrical power.
>
> The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
> collision warnings and thermal predictors.
> We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
> horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
> I probably have not mentioned them all.
>
> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> all these devices?
>
>
>

[Don Johnstone]

No, I don't. The first glider I had a Skylark 2 had
one 7AmpHr battery and I ran the radio and the electric
vario for 2 days or more flying. There was also an
AH but using that flattened the battery in about 1
hour.
Currently :-) I have 1 7AmpHr Battery and 1 12AmpHour
battery which to be safe I charge every day, and I
don't have any of the extra items in the first list.


So what is stupid about the question? As my granny
used to say, 'I may be stupid but I'm nae daft'


At 15:18 30 April 2004, Phil Jeffery wrote:
>Why ask such a stupid question when you know very well?
>
>'Don Johnstone' wrote in
>message ...
>> There have been many suggestions over the past few
>> months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
>> most of them requiring electrical power.
>>
>> The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
>> collision warnings and thermal predictors.
>> We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
>> horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
>> I probably have not mentioned them all.
>>
>> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
>> all these devices?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Shawn Curry]

Don Johnstone wrote:

> There have been many suggestions over the past few
> months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
> most of them requiring electrical power.
>
> The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
> collision warnings and thermal predictors.
> We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
> horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
> I probably have not mentioned them all.
>
> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> all these devices?

Squirrels.

[Whitson Bush]

hamsters are a little less powerful, but the don't eat your nuts.
"Shawn Curry" > wrote in message
...
> Don Johnstone wrote:
>
> > There have been many suggestions over the past few
> > months to fit equipment to gliders of all flavours,
> > most of them requiring electrical power.
> >
> > The list is long, transponders, strobe lights, anti
> > collision warnings and thermal predictors.
> > We already have electric varios, turn and slip, artificial
> > horizon, gps, palm top, bug wipers and loggers and
> > I probably have not mentioned them all.
> >
> > My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> > all these devices?
>
> Squirrels.
>

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, "Phil Jeffery" > wrote:

> Why ask such a stupid question when you know very well?

In order to understand recursion, first you must understand recursion.

;)

Bob K.

[Udo Rumpf]

> > Why ask such a stupid question when you know very well?
>
> In order to understand recursion, first you must understand recursion.
> Bob K.
as in Wiederholung,repeat, recursive, no ?
Udo

[Don Johnstone]

If you don't put a stop condition in your recursive
loops your stack will collide with your heap and you
will crash :-)

At 22:24 30 April 2004, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
>Earlier, 'Phil Jeffery' wrote:
>
>> Why ask such a stupid question when you know very
>>well?
>
>In order to understand recursion, first you must understand
>recursion.
>
>;)
>
>Bob K.
>

[Nyal Williams]

At 23:00 30 April 2004, Don Johnstone wrote:
>If you don't put a stop condition in your recursive
>loops your stack will collide with your heap and you
>will crash :-)


It would seem that as glider pilots we aspire to the
condition of being NASA engineers who view the world
via cathode ray tubes. (Please note that I did not
use a non-restrictive comma.)

[Robin Birch]

In message >, Nyal Williams
> writes
>At 23:00 30 April 2004, Don Johnstone wrote:
>>If you don't put a stop condition in your recursive
>>loops your stack will collide with your heap and you
>>will crash :-)
>
>
>It would seem that as glider pilots we aspire to the
>condition of being NASA engineers who view the world
>via cathode ray tubes. (Please note that I did not
>use a non-restrictive comma.)
>
>
>
Me personally, I aspire to just being able to stay up :-)
--
Robin Birch

[Robert Ehrlich]

Don Johnstone wrote:
>
> If you don't put a stop condition in your recursive
> loops your stack will collide with your heap and you
> will crash :-)
>

Except if tail recursion is detected and stacking avoided
in this case, then you have an endless loop i.e. you circle
forever :-)

[Tom Seim]

> My question: Where is the power coming from to run
> all these devices?

We can look forward to alternatives to the battery we love to hate
(sealed lead-acid):

PLYMOUTH MEETING, Pa., July 8 -- Lithium Technology
Corporation, ("LTC," "the Company") (OTC Bulletin Board: LITH.OB), an
early
production stage rechargeable lithium battery manufacturer, today
announced
that its GAIA operating units have received firm purchase orders for
high
performance lithium-ion prototype batteries for transportation
applications
from two different customers.
LTC's GAIA U.S.A. unit at Plymouth Meeting, PA, has received a
purchase
order from Penn State University for a 180-Volt prototype Hybrid
Electric
Vehicle (HEV) battery for an advanced truck application that the
University
intends to enter into the Future Truck Competition in June 2004. The
US DOE
sponsors the Future Truck program and the annual competition to
promote the
development of fuel-efficient vehicle technology. This prototype
battery will
be comprised of 50 of the Company's proprietary 27 Ah flat cells,
along with a
Battery Management System (BMS), and will provide about 70kW of power,
which
is a substantial improvement over the heavier lead acid battery system
that it
will replace. Delivery is scheduled for September 2003.
LTC's GAIA Europe unit at Nordhausen, Germany, has received orders for
several advanced automotive batteries from a world-renowned car
manufacturer.
One of these prototypes is a unique 12-Volt auxiliary power source to
be
housed in a thin panel. LTC's proprietary large-format flat cell
technology
and stainless steel flat pack configuration readily met the customer's
OEM
specifications with a battery having a 20 Ah capacity in a case
measuring
12.5 inches (315mm) by 7.9 inches (200mm) by 1.2 inches (30mm). The
other
prototypes are nominal 12-Volt SLI (starting-lighting-ignition)
batteries
using the Company's proprietary 27 Ah cylindrical cells measuring 5.1
inches
(130mm) by 2.4 inches (60mm) in diameter. These batteries will provide
up to
9kW of starting power. Initial delivery is scheduled for August 2003.
In
addition, LTC will supply a Battery Management System (BMS) for each
of the
prototypes. The batteries will undergo extensive testing by the OEM.
Previously, in September 2002, GAIA Europe delivered a prototype
42-Volt
automotive battery to BMW as part of the Astor program, a consortium
of seven
European automakers evaluating new power sources. That battery remains
on
test in Europe.
Dr. Franz Kruger, President and Chief Operating Officer of LTC, said,
"These orders represent another important milestone in our ongoing
initiatives
to have transportation industry OEMs test and qualify our advanced
large
format batteries which can deliver high-rate, high-capacity, low
temperature
operations and long cycle life. The Penn State opportunity represents
the
first in-vehicle demonstration of LTC's automotive battery prototypes
and we
are pleased to be the University's first choice for a lithium-ion
solution."
LTC, with operating locations in Plymouth Meeting, PA, and Nordhausen
Germany, is sampling customers in the U.S. and Europe with its unique
large
format prototype batteries for a variety of national security,
stationary
power and transportation applications. The Company's battery products
carry
the GAIA brand name and trademark.

[Robert Ehrlich]

Tom Seim wrote:
> ...
> We can look forward to alternatives to the battery we love to hate
> (sealed lead-acid):
> ...

I don't hate sealed lead-acid batteries. They are inexpensive, don't
need a special charger, their capacity is sufficient for the use we
have. A local plus is that there is a little factory nearby making
them and we can bring the old ones to them for direct recycling.

[Tom Seim]

Robert Ehrlich > wrote in message >...
> Tom Seim wrote:
> > ...
> > We can look forward to alternatives to the battery we love to hate
> > (sealed lead-acid):
> > ...
>
> I don't hate sealed lead-acid batteries. They are inexpensive, don't
> need a special charger, their capacity is sufficient for the use we
> have. A local plus is that there is a little factory nearby making
> them and we can bring the old ones to them for direct recycling.


Clearly you haven't installed a transponder (yet).

Tom

[Robert Ehrlich]

Tom Seim wrote:
> ..
> >
> > I don't hate sealed lead-acid batteries. They are inexpensive, don't
> > need a special charger, their capacity is sufficient for the use we
> > have. A local plus is that there is a little factory nearby making
> > them and we can bring the old ones to them for direct recycling.
>
> Clearly you haven't installed a transponder (yet).
>

No, I didn't, no am I going to, since I am only flying club
gliders and so it is not under my responsability to do that,
But it is highly probable that in a near future we must do
that for most club gliders in France, and in this case I think
a second battery will be installed just for the transponder.