My next ship...

[Matt Herron Jr.]

I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;

I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.

My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K

Current candidates in no particular order include:

Lak 17a
ASW 27/27b
Ventus 2CX
DG 800 or 808s
HPH 304 CZ
LS-10?

Recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Matt H

[Tim Taylor]

All on the list are good. I would add Ventus 2bx. Several available at good prices. Unless you need the 18m, you will love the flight qualities.

[Darryl Ramm]

ASW27 Next question?

[Dennis Vreeken]

The real fun starts at 18 meters ! 😎

[Tango Whisky]

If your Ventus C has 17.6 m, why would you trade it for a DG or a HPH ?!

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

I quite liked the Ventus C/17.6. Other than getting rid of the pesky and fragile side-hinge canopy, not sure you'd be doing much better with some on your list.
The V2Cx and CxA (serial # 82 and higher), ASW27 and 27B would be the best step up in performance.
You didn't list JS1. The A and B models are not as expensive (or refined) as a C with just 18m tips, but they're just as nice to fly.
Note that the tail tank was an option not everyone took in the ASW27B, and unavailable in the "A".
Jim

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:27:08 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> ASW27 Next question?

Darryl,

You owned a Lak 17a if I am not mistaken. thoughts on the 27 over the Lak?

Matt

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 9:32:32 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
> >
> > I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
> >
> > My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
> >
> > Current candidates in no particular order include:
> >
> > Lak 17a
> > ASW 27/27b
> > Ventus 2CX
> > DG 800 or 808s
> > HPH 304 CZ
> > LS-10?
> >
> > Recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Matt H
>
> I quite liked the Ventus C/17.6. Other than getting rid of the pesky and fragile side-hinge canopy, not sure you'd be doing much better with some on your list.
> The V2Cx and CxA (serial # 82 and higher), ASW27 and 27B would be the best step up in performance.
> You didn't list JS1. The A and B models are not as expensive (or refined) as a C with just 18m tips, but they're just as nice to fly.
> Note that the tail tank was an option not everyone took in the ASW27B, and unavailable in the "A".
> Jim

I had the 16.6 tips. rarely flew them over the 15m with winglets. Will look into the Js1.

Matt

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 9:12:38 PM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
> If your Ventus C has 17.6 m, why would you trade it for a DG or a HPH ?!

DG 808s seems like high performance at high speed. I only had 16.6 tips...

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 9:32:32 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
> >
> > I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
> >
> > My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
> >
> > Current candidates in no particular order include:
> >
> > Lak 17a
> > ASW 27/27b
> > Ventus 2CX
> > DG 800 or 808s
> > HPH 304 CZ
> > LS-10?
> >
> > Recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Matt H
>
> I quite liked the Ventus C/17.6. Other than getting rid of the pesky and fragile side-hinge canopy, not sure you'd be doing much better with some on your list.
> The V2Cx and CxA (serial # 82 and higher), ASW27 and 27B would be the best step up in performance.
> You didn't list JS1. The A and B models are not as expensive (or refined) as a C with just 18m tips, but they're just as nice to fly.
> Note that the tail tank was an option not everyone took in the ASW27B, and unavailable in the "A".
> Jim

Broke the side hinge canopy twice. First time, the glider flew without me under tow by golf cart in a down burst @ Truckee. Got 15 feet in the air while I held the wingtip. Second time a total loss at Truckee when canopy blew open in a gust on the ground and tumbled down the flight line. Painful to watch...

[Ramy[_2_]]

JS1 for 70K? Good luck...
For the price range you looking at, it is a no brainer - ASW27. There are few of them for sale.

Ramy

[Jim White[_3_]]

At 04:32 25 October 2017, JS wrote:
>On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
>> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my
>friends on RAS. First a little background;
>>
>> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the
>Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like
>to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really
>competitive.
>>
>> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy
>safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?,
15m
>and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>>
>> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>>
>> Lak 17a
>> ASW 27/27b
>> Ventus 2CX
>> DG 800 or 808s
>> HPH 304 CZ
>> LS-10?
>>
>> Recommendations?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Matt H
>
>I quite liked the Ventus C/17.6. Other than getting rid of the pesky and
>fragile side-hinge canopy, not sure you'd be doing much better with some
on
>your list.
>The V2Cx and CxA (serial # 82 and higher), ASW27 and 27B would be the
best
>step up in performance.
>You didn't list JS1. The A and B models are not as expensive (or refined)
>as a C with just 18m tips, but they're just as nice to fly.
>Note that the tail tank was an option not everyone took in the ASW27B,
and
>unavailable in the "A".
>Jim
>
No tail tank in my 27. Don't feel the need for it. I have the glider set up
for optimum CofG when empty and drop an extra 250g in the tail battery box
if I fill up. No problem!

[Pete[_9_]]

Jim,
If you dump ballast early in the flight do you just deal with an aft CG and less stability or is it not noticeable?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:46:02 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:46:02 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:46:02 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

Matt I think my forward opening canopy is a safer configuration. Also, aft ballast can be added to the tail battery compartment.
Wes (J3)

[KEN]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:46:02 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H
Matt, There is a ASW 27B that has been refinished in PU at SLGP ( see ad on W&W). An ASW 27 is a very nice flying glider with great performance.

[[email protected]]

I've been thinking about the same thing. The question I've been thinking about are:

Is there a newer spread sheet available to compare the polars of these gliders over the speed range? Here's an older link to one with some of these gliders
https://www.gliding.com.au/assets/docs/Polar10.xls

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the dynamics of the skinny tail boom. They don't always seem to stay attached. How careful do you have to be with them?

Which of these gliders are competitive at 18M? I have a glider with 15 and 17.6M tips. The big tips seem like reverse water ballast. They let you go slower (less sink) which is great for just hanging out in lite conditions.. In strong conditions, the wing structures to not permit enough water to make them faster than 15M. On the other hand, the lighter wings are really easy to assemble.

On good weather weekdays when there isn't a tow pilot, the idea of a motor is on the table. Is the permanent ballast and maintenance story worth it?

Good luck with your quest.

[Dennis Vreeken]

I have no skin in the game but I owned a Lak 17 for a few seasons . Great handling and decent performance. Not a 29 but a lot of glider for the money . Also poly finish and forward hinging canopy. I needed a motor or I would still have it .

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 8:15:01 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> I've been thinking about the same thing. The question I've been thinking about are:
>
> Is there a newer spread sheet available to compare the polars of these gliders over the speed range? Here's an older link to one with some of these gliders
> https://www.gliding.com.au/assets/docs/Polar10.xls
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with the dynamics of the skinny tail boom. They don't always seem to stay attached. How careful do you have to be with them?
>
> Which of these gliders are competitive at 18M? I have a glider with 15 and 17.6M tips. The big tips seem like reverse water ballast. They let you go slower (less sink) which is great for just hanging out in lite conditions. In strong conditions, the wing structures to not permit enough water to make them faster than 15M. On the other hand, the lighter wings are really easy to assemble.
>
> On good weather weekdays when there isn't a tow pilot, the idea of a motor is on the table. Is the permanent ballast and maintenance story worth it?
>
> Good luck with your quest.

I'm curious about which glider has a skinny tail boom you are concerned about.
FWIW a 15/18 glider adds expense(if you have both sets of tips) that doesn't yield much benefit, unless you want to compete in 2 classes. I've never even taken my 15 tips out for my '29.
One opinion- the '27 is a great ship and will do everything most pilots will ever want to do. Assembly is light and easy. It will hold value well as it is another classic, like the '20.
UH

[Matt Herron Jr.]

Any DG drivers want to chime in?

I was impressed with the polar in that with 15m config, it achieves 45:1 at a very high speed; 110kph, and with 18m tips, 50:1 at 116kph. Fast! But does that mean the polar hurts the sink rate thermaling?

[Darryl Ramm]

What DG glider are you talking about? I assumed you were looking for a used glider.... here appears to be only 5 non-motorglider DG-80x in the USA and I would be surprised if many of those had 15m tips. Why do you care about 15m, if you want a 18m glider buy one of those. A DG-80x would be nowhere near top of my list compared to modern 18m gliders, ASG29, JS1 or V3. What is your budget? Again if you want a 15m glider... ASW27. Lots of them around find a beautiful one.

[Darryl Ramm]

Sorry I missed the budget in the first post. For $70-$80k forget 18m and get the very best ASW27 you can find/afford.

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:21:38 AM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> Sorry I missed the budget in the first post. For $70-$80k forget 18m and get the very best ASW27 you can find/afford.

I agree that the 27 is the safe choice, but I want to explore the boundaries of my options. For instance the LAK 17a is 15/18m and appears very affordable. Performance is good, and it gets good reviews. It appears you could even get a self launcher for about $80K. I think Sean F. owned one. Comments Sean?

[Tango Whisky]

Idaflieg measurements show the DG800 18m winglet at 45:1. There will be variations between serial numbers, but not 5 points.
My Ventus cM 17.6 was measured by Idaflieg with 47:1, and my buddy flying a 800 kept loosing out on me during long glides with the same wing loading.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Highly doubt if Sean owned a Lak or would comment on a Lak as he is the HPH dealer. If you want to speak with him about eh 304 shark line call W&W.

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:30:51 AM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:21:38 AM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > Sorry I missed the budget in the first post. For $70-$80k forget 18m and get the very best ASW27 you can find/afford.
>
> I agree that the 27 is the safe choice, but I want to explore the boundaries of my options. For instance the LAK 17a is 15/18m and appears very affordable. Performance is good, and it gets good reviews. It appears you could even get a self launcher for about $80K. I think Sean F. owned one. Comments Sean?

[Renny[_2_]]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:08:57 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Highly doubt if Sean owned a Lak or would comment on a Lak as he is the HPH dealer. If you want to speak with him about eh 304 shark line call W&W.
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:30:51 AM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:21:38 AM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> > > Sorry I missed the budget in the first post. For $70-$80k forget 18m and get the very best ASW27 you can find/afford.
> >
> > I agree that the 27 is the safe choice, but I want to explore the boundaries of my options. For instance the LAK 17a is 15/18m and appears very affordable. Performance is good, and it gets good reviews. It appears you could even get a self launcher for about $80K. I think Sean F. owned one. Comments Sean?

Jonathan - I believe Matt is referring to Sean Fidler, who owned a 17A for several years. The Sean you are thinking about is Sean Franke at W&W.
Thanks - Renny

[Mike the Strike]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

Since you already have a Ventus, the 2bx or 2cx would be obvious choices. The latter might be above your price point, but the 2bx probably not. I like mine!

Mike

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 11:46:44 AM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 7:46:02 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
> >
> > I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
> >
> > My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
> >
> > Current candidates in no particular order include:
> >
> > Lak 17a
> > ASW 27/27b
> > Ventus 2CX
> > DG 800 or 808s
> > HPH 304 CZ
> > LS-10?
> >
> > Recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Matt H
>
> Since you already have a Ventus, the 2bx or 2cx would be obvious choices. The latter might be above your price point, but the 2bx probably not. I like mine!
>
> Mike

Matt, you need to forget about all that short span stuff. What you really want is a vintage Nimbus 3. I have just the one you need at only half your budget. You can invest the rest of the money in a gym membership and come out ahead :-)

Craig
7Q

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:15:38 PM UTC-5, Craig Funston wrote:
>
> Matt, you need to forget about all that short span stuff. What you really want is a vintage Nimbus 3. I have just the one you need at only half your budget. You can invest the rest of the money in a gym membership and come out ahead :-)
>
> Craig
> 7Q

And, what Craig has offered up is just a "bigger Ventus". So you will be right at home with the handling. :-)

Steve Leonard
VJS

[krasw]

On Wednesday, 25 October 2017 05:46:02 UTC+3, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

Most glider pilots fly for fun so forget 15m gliders and go for 18m V2CX or LS10 if budget allows. They perform noticeably better than rest of the group in every possible weather scenario. Others are step down or sideways performance-wise, though probably nicer to fly than old Ventus. (304 seriously?)

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 12:37:06 PM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> On Wednesday, 25 October 2017 05:46:02 UTC+3, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> > I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
> >
> > I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
> >
> > My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
> >
> > Current candidates in no particular order include:
> >
> > Lak 17a
> > ASW 27/27b
> > Ventus 2CX
> > DG 800 or 808s
> > HPH 304 CZ
> > LS-10?
> >
> > Recommendations?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Matt H
>
> Most glider pilots fly for fun so forget 15m gliders and go for 18m V2CX or LS10 if budget allows. They perform noticeably better than rest of the group in every possible weather scenario. Others are step down or sideways performance-wise, though probably nicer to fly than old Ventus. (304 seriously?)

I heard there were very few LS-10s around, but I would put that on my list for sure. Not sure about price though.

[Bob Kuykendall]

Choose the one that offers FES as a retrofit.

--Bob K.

[Steve Koerner]

Where Matt flies, a '27 is definitely the best choice. With a '27 you get high wing loading and great performance for the money. You get absolute competitiveness in 15 class. Most importantly, you can land a 15m ship on many desert strips where you cannot safely land an 18m ship. 18 meter and open class ships are for places where farm fields are the most common landout -- not the case in northern NV.

[Hartley Falbaum[_2_]]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 10:46:02 PM UTC-4, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

I have a DG808C--motorized. I have 15/18m tips. I flew it this season with 15m tips. Don't believe the published data. The cockpit is a bit narrower than a '27, Not as narrow as a Ventus A. The 18m version goes with a '27 up to fairly high speeds, then falls behind at similar wing loading. I owned a '27b before the DG. I'd say the '27 meets your requirements very well.
Hartley Falbaum

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 1:52:02 PM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> Choose the one that offers FES as a retrofit.
>
> --Bob K.

Hi Bob, how would I tell?

[jfitch]

Would that be a fireproof one? (Preparing to duck and cover....) :)

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 4:26:00 PM UTC-7, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 1:52:02 PM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> > Choose the one that offers FES as a retrofit.
> >
> > --Bob K.
>
> Hi Bob, how would I tell?

It will say "experimental" somewhere in the cockpit. ;-)
Craig

[JS[_5_]]

Matt: Like Darryl I missed the budgetary thing, perhaps because I just do it and figure those financial things out later. My investment portfolio is weighted heavily on "German Plastic" commodities. (That'll get Uys going)
I know others who changed from V2C to ASW27, one who changed from HpH 304 to ASW27, and one who changed from ASH26E to ASW27 (wait a minute, I did that too). They seem to be happy with their new flying machines.
Apparently "Mike Mike" sold, thought that was the best one recently listed on W+W.
Have a chat with Rex.
Jim

[Collin Shea]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 8:46:02 PM UTC-6, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
> I am looking for my next glider, and wanted a little advice from my friends on RAS. First a little background;
>
> I have about 500 hrs on a Ventus C. I fly mostly in CA and NV in the Sierras. I am interested in 500K+ XC and some regional contests. I like to compete, but will never take the risks necessary to be really competitive.
>
> My list of wants (not requirements) include; Flaps, auto hook-up, roomy safety cockpit, easy to rig and trailer, water in the wings and tail?, 15m and possibly 18m for fun, high performance, price around $70K +/- $10K
>
> Current candidates in no particular order include:
>
> Lak 17a
> ASW 27/27b
> Ventus 2CX
> DG 800 or 808s
> HPH 304 CZ
> LS-10?
>
> Recommendations?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Matt H

Not that I have one, but I would get a ASW 27, you can't go wrong with it. And the market is flooded with them so I'm sure you can get one for a great price... Have fun!

Collin Shea W5

[Jim White[_3_]]

At 10:29 25 October 2017, Pete wrote:
>Jim,
>If you dump ballast early in the flight do you just deal with an aft CG
and
>less stability or is it not noticeable?
>
I like the CofG quite aft so if I have to drop ballast during the flight it
gets a bit more lively but I do not mind that. If I intend to fly empty I
reduce the tail ballast 250g to make it optimum for that weight. I never
allow the CofG to go beyond the rear stop.

Jim

[Bojack J4]

> I heard there were very few LS-10s around, but I would put that on my list for sure. Not sure about price though.


Yes, only 3 LS-10's in USA and one LS-10 prototype.

Mine's not for sale, one just sold from Virginia, one with a sustainer engine is out in California, and the prototype is at Bermudah Hi in S. Carolina.

Great handling and performance, but of course I'm prejudiced.