Say Goodbye Lennie

[Jeff Dorwart]

Lennie, It always saddens me that one of the very few glider
pilots chooses to leave the sport. I have been flying
gliders since 1975 and have seen many depart for a
myriad of reasons. Health, economics, just tired of
it, etc, etc. I have personally witnessed a few dings,
scrapes and outright crashes. In spite of all this
for some wierd reason I still love flying gliders.
I find a joy in it that I have found no where else.
I am in the military and have been for 20+ years.
It took me until this year to finally save enough
money to purchase my first glass ship. I am sorry you have chosen to leave the sport
although I am sure you have chosen wisely as it does
not seem to suit you. I have, up till this point sat back and politely
ignored your posts that cast dispersions on others
for not leaving the soaring. I just don't get it.
Maybe you can explain why you feel it necessary to
'lurk' about the message board tossing about your negativity.
Are you attempting to get the rest of us to give it
up too? I am sure there is a good sociological/psychological
case study in this long diatribe somewhere. Hey at least it has not been boring, just puzzling.jeff

[Lennie the Lurker]

Jeff Dorwart > wrote in message >...
>
> I am in the military and have been for 20+ years.

Sympathy or a medal? I don't have either one.

> It took me until this year to finally save enough
> money to purchase my first glass ship.

It took me more than 35 years to come to the point that I thought I
could afford a 1-26. Go cry to someone else.

I am sorry you have chosen to leave the sport
> although I am sure you have chosen wisely as it does
> not seem to suit you.

Soaring suits me, it's the pilots attitudes that I can't stand.

I have, up till this point sat back and politely
> ignored your posts that cast dispersions on others
> for not leaving the soaring.

Then I suggest you have some eighth grader show you how to set up the
kill file.

I am not casting dispersion on those that do not leave, but do take
offense on attitudes of elitism and superiority where they surface.
Soaring is basically a cluster of rich old conservatives, and they
brought their rich old conservative ideas and attitudes toward others
with them. The idea of being satisfied with what one has is totally
alien, lusting uselessly after the latest and greatest, bankrupt
yourself for something supposedly better is what you're supposed to
do. Kneel slavishly to those that have their "diamonds", which is
exactly parallel to saluting the post at Great Lakes Naval training
center that wears an ensigns hat. Both are useless gestures. Get the
main idea back on having fun and not gathering scalps for the mantle
and it might be fun. Quit trying to make it look affordable for
anyone that wants to try, it isn't. Realize that there are a lot of
good, hardworking wage earners out there that might like to try it,
but for financial reasons, can't. It's not, as tom seim has called
me, quitter, it's putting soaring where it belongs, an expensive
diversion, and getting back to life. It's realizing that living for
only one activity that may or may not be possible on any given day is
wasting a life and deciding that if anything has to be sacrificed,
soaring had to be it. It's a ****ing hobby, I don't have to do it.

Set your killfile.

[Jeff Dorwart]

Dearest Lennie,
I do not feel it necessary to set my kill file
and I do not need an eigth grader to show me how.
I simply suggested that if you are not happy with soaring
why in the world would you feel it necessary to waste
your valuable time on all those so called elitists
ranting about why you did or did not quit.
Very Humbly

jeff (not a Navy man since you seem to need to throw
darts there too).

At 19:18 19 May 2004, Lennie The Lurker wrote:
>Jeff Dorwart wrote in message news:...
>>
>> I am in the military and have been for 20+ years.
>
>Sympathy or a medal? I don't have either one.
>
>> It took me until this year to finally save enough
>> money to purchase my first glass ship.
>
>It took me more than 35 years to come to the point
>that I thought I
>could afford a 1-26. Go cry to someone else.
>
> I am sorry you have chosen to leave the sport
>> although I am sure you have chosen wisely as it does
>> not seem to suit you.
>
>Soaring suits me, it's the pilots attitudes that I
>can't stand.
>
> I have, up till this point sat back and politely
>> ignored your posts that cast dispersions on others
>> for not leaving the soaring.
>
>Then I suggest you have some eighth grader show you
>how to set up the
>kill file.
>
>I am not casting dispersion on those that do not leave,
>but do take
>offense on attitudes of elitism and superiority where
>they surface.
>Soaring is basically a cluster of rich old conservatives,
>and they
>brought their rich old conservative ideas and attitudes
>toward others
>with them. The idea of being satisfied with what one
>has is totally
>alien, lusting uselessly after the latest and greatest,
>bankrupt
>yourself for something supposedly better is what you're
>supposed to
>do. Kneel slavishly to those that have their 'diamonds',
>which is
>exactly parallel to saluting the post at Great Lakes
>Naval training
>center that wears an ensigns hat. Both are useless
>gestures. Get the
>main idea back on having fun and not gathering scalps
>for the mantle
>and it might be fun. Quit trying to make it look affordable
>for
>anyone that wants to try, it isn't. Realize that there
>are a lot of
>good, hardworking wage earners out there that might
>like to try it,
>but for financial reasons, can't. It's not, as tom
>seim has called
>me, quitter, it's putting soaring where it belongs,
>an expensive
>diversion, and getting back to life. It's realizing
>that living for
>only one activity that may or may not be possible on
>any given day is
>wasting a life and deciding that if anything has to
>be sacrificed,
>soaring had to be it. It's a ****ing hobby, I don't
>have to do it.
>
>Set your killfile.
>

[Michel Talon]

Jeff Dorwart > wrote:
> Dearest Lennie,
> I do not feel it necessary to set my kill file
> and I do not need an eigth grader to show me how.
> I simply suggested that if you are not happy with soaring
> why in the world would you feel it necessary to waste
> your valuable time on all those so called elitists
> ranting about why you did or did not quit.
> Very Humbly
>
>

Also very humbly i could say that i agree with part of that Lennie says,
that is soaring is too expensive and takes too much time for a lot of
people who could otherwise enjoy this sport and would very much like to
do it. I think especially to young people to whom this sport is
particularly fit, for a lot of reasons. I had the luck to belong to
clubs with a fair number of young men and girls and this was very nice.
But it seems that the mean age in clubs here is more and more shifting
to the high end. Apparently the Germans have succeeded in keeping prices
low enough so as to attract youngs. This is a very very important
point to keep in mind. Even if you get rich enough to afford to fly
for yourself this doesn't mean you can also pay for your children, etc.
Keeping prices low is an absolut must, i have alraedy ranted far too
much about that.


--

Michel TALON

[Tom Seim]

Jeff Dorwart > wrote in message >...
> Lennie, It always saddens me that one of the very few glider
> pilots chooses to leave the sport. I have been flying
> gliders since 1975 and have seen many depart for a
> myriad of reasons. Health, economics, just tired of
> it, etc, etc. I have personally witnessed a few dings,
> scrapes and outright crashes. In spite of all this
> for some wierd reason I still love flying gliders.
> I find a joy in it that I have found no where else.
> I am in the military and have been for 20+ years.
> It took me until this year to finally save enough
> money to purchase my first glass ship. I am sorry you have chosen to leave the sport
> although I am sure you have chosen wisely as it does
> not seem to suit you. I have, up till this point sat back and politely
> ignored your posts that cast dispersions on others
> for not leaving the soaring. I just don't get it.
> Maybe you can explain why you feel it necessary to
> 'lurk' about the message board tossing about your negativity.
> Are you attempting to get the rest of us to give it
> up too? I am sure there is a good sociological/psychological
> case study in this long diatribe somewhere. Hey at least it has not been boring, just puzzling.jeff

Here is Lennie's,

Richard A. Buege
236 Robert St.
Burlington, WI 53105-2255
tel. 262-763-2237

own words:

(Lennie the lurker exists to flame, to bait, and to open to ridicule,
then leave to others the shaking remains of my target. Binford Mark V
flame thrower now on "incinerate".)

He has posted his diatribe on numerous news groups (even
rec.music.theory!). More of racist ramblings:

Sorry kraut, but you're wrong again, as usual. The pussy side of the
family, krauts, lives down here, and the men and humans live in the
northern part of the state. This has been in the works for the last
25
years, So no group in particular has had anything to do with it. It's
something you aren't allowed, a personal decision, that was made many
years ago. Now it's possible for me to achieve one of the things I
have dreamed of, and I'm going to do it.

You aren't going to run me off as easy as you did the last time pete,
I'm now Irish, and to hell with the kraut side of the family. In case
you didn't notice it, this was a pretty civil thread until you stuck
your big german honker in where you should have kept it out. You're
nothing but a bullheaded, arrogant kraut, all that you will ever be.
I
haven't really seen you post much of any use anywhere, nor have your
two bedpartners who shall remain nameless. In this thread, Bill asked
for information, and I responded, as did a few others, You didn't say
squat, offer any suggestions, just sat with your head in its usual
place. (That's up your ass.) When I mention that I don't really care
for a group that has a lower code of ethics than the average factory
worker, and they happen to be predominantly krauts, you gotta jump in
with a blast of personal garbage. Stick it pete, things that I told
some of the soaring group in confidence showed up posted on the group.
This is behavior lower than any I would expect from any union member,
but typical of your people. Granted, he was an American, but his
favorite cry is "get rid of all the Schweizers and buy used
german....". Another is angry and sends angry emails when you don't
respond to one of his postings. Most to the tune of "you're ignoring
the god of the air, namely me." I don't have to acknowledge him, he's
just another man, and not very important to begin with, except in his
own head. You, yourself blast anyone that looks at an oriental
machine, but now you're bragging up the german glass? Which face are
you wearing today? I shouldn't buy a $1200 taiwan mill, but I should
buy a $100K kraut glider? Sorry, I spent $9k for a Schweizer, made in
Elmira New York.

Believing in paying my own way, I also don't belong to any "glider
club", which I view as just a way for someone to fly "on the cheap".
A
way to have someone else subsidize "that which you really don't need".
Not in my nature, I've paid the full tab, and I'm probably better off
for NOT having gone to a club. I also don't go out on retrieves of
people that couldn't make it back, I let the paid people do what they
get paid for. I do run wings, do hookups, ground handling the 2-33,
and other things that help the operation run just a bit more smoothly.
Don't have to, but it doesn't hurt anything to do it. I've made parts
for the ground equipment, and not charged for them, helped put the
trainer and the "ride" ship together and taken them down for the
winter. What have you done except probably bitch out the line boy for
not having your plane ready? I'm willing to bet, nothing. You're
the "High and Mighty engineer" that expects everything to be just as
you want it, but don't want to pay the price.

Don't make any mistakes, if you do, I'll pounce on them like a cat on
a
mouse. That's a promise. Scab sucking engineer.

Lennie

[Lennie the Lurker]

(Tom Seim) wrote in message >...
>
> Here is Lennie's,
>
> Richard A. Buege
> 236 Robert St.
> Burlington, WI 53105-2255
> tel. 262-763-2237

Well, the name is right. al never could do anything right anyhow.
You might have credided him for his ****up, at least.
>
> own words:
>
> (Lennie the lurker exists to flame, to bait, and to open to ridicule,
> then leave to others the shaking remains of my target. Binford Mark V
> flame thrower now on "incinerate".)

Taken out of context, and in a group that is and always has been a
glorious flame fest. Why doesn't taking it out of context surprise
me? (Posted on alt.aviation.safety, which is now almost extinct.)
>
>>
> Sorry kraut, but you're wrong again, as usual. The pussy side of the
> family, krauts, lives down here, and the men and humans live in the
> northern part of the state.
>
A response to a kraut engineer that presumes to tell someone with more
than 40 years DOING metalworking where I am wrong. Said pete albrecht
no longer posts to RCM, having finally given up on giving newbies dumb
answers to honest questions. I notice you didn't post any part of
pete's postings, probably after you read that as a cessna driver he
has no use for gliders or glider pilots. pete was born in krautland,
raised in Chicago, returned to krautland for 20 years, then infected
the southern queerland area. Haven't heard recently, but I think he's
still in lost angles.

[Lennie the Lurker]

Jeff Dorwart > wrote in message >...
> Dearest Lennie,
> I do not feel it necessary to set my kill file
> and I do not need an eigth grader to show me how.

It's called set it or shut up. those are your two choices. If you
will notice, the latest round was again a certain slug making false
accusations, joyful that I have left soaring, saying or insinuating
that I knew I was less than safe. A goddam lie is still a goddam lie.
Whether it comes from al the displaced and rejected irishman or seim
makes no difference. Had not mr triple diamond, (useless unless in a
cluster for dressing grinding wheels) opened his mouth, or his ****
poor excuse for a brain, I would not have answered.

But, let's see, one of the michaels pronounced me a total loss, now
seim says I'm a quitter. Hmmmmm. seems to me since I quit, I'm not
broke all the time. Maybe I'm just not stupid enough to continue to
throw what little I have to someone else.

[Robertmudd1u]

>But it seems that the mean age in clubs here is more and more shifting
>to the high end. Apparently the Germans have succeeded in keeping prices
>low enough so as to attract youngs.

Michel,

I agree, but it is not only the expense; it is the attitude of the club to
youth and new ideas. A willingness to look at diffrent ways and diffrent needs
and wants of new members

Robert Mudd

[Ted Wagner]

>> Soaring is basically a cluster of rich old conservatives, and they
>> brought their rich old conservative ideas and attitudes toward
others
>> with them.

That, ladies and gentlemen, says all you ever need to know about
Lennie the Lurker. One cannot have a dialogue with a person so full
of hate; one can only ignore him. He does not stay out of soaring
because he can't afford it; he stays out of it because he just hates
those who are in it.

I'm reminded (on the positive side) of one of the promising young
pilots at my home gliderport. He's not even 20 and he owns and flies
a 1-26 he bought with the money he made from running the line and
other odd jobs -- no other help, just lots of desire, and nobody
telling him he couldn't do it, no silly idea in his mind that only
rich people can fly gliders.

Adios, Lennie! I'm sure you'll be wasting more disk space on the
newsgroup, but this is the last I will on the subject of you. Go
spend your time on something you are FOR.

2NO

[Shirley]

Lennie wrote:
>>Soaring is basically a cluster of rich old
>>conservatives, and they brought their rich
>>old conservative ideas and attitudes toward
>>others with them.

I can only speak for one sailport, but the community of pilots there includes a
wide variety of ideas, attitudes, personality types, political persuasions,
lifestyles, income levels and ages, from the youngest permissable to older than
dirt!

When you think about it, other than enjoying home, nature and family, which no
doubt should be given time and appreciation, most adult free-time passions cost
some money. But that doesn't mean that all who participate are rich old people!
Sailing to skydiving, go-carting to golf, rafting, fishing, racing, RC cars,
motorcycling, boating, windsurfing, hang gliding, traveling ... the list goes
on, and most have their own degree of risk/danger. If a person reaches a point
where they no longer feel that the personal rewards are worth the cost or the
risks, they give it up. Nothing wrong with that. But why is it necessary to
continually justify the reasons for leaving, or to knock the activity or put
down those who still participate and enjoy? Not being facetious, but if the
activity were truly no longer of interest, why would a person still spend any
time at all in this newsgroup?

[Michel Talon]

Robertmudd1u > wrote:
>>But it seems that the mean age in clubs here is more and more shifting
>>to the high end. Apparently the Germans have succeeded in keeping prices
>>low enough so as to attract youngs.
>
> Michel,
>
> I agree, but it is not only the expense; it is the attitude of the club to
> youth and new ideas. A willingness to look at diffrent ways and diffrent needs
> and wants of new members
>

Of course, you are perfectly right and i am probably too focalised on a
single point. It is clear that when there is a vast majority of old guys
in a club, it is less attractive to youngs. So this is a bad spiral to
avoid. Now here in France, clubs make an effort and tarifs are
cheaper for youngs. Still you need a fair amount of income to afford
paying these tarifs for all your children, plus yourself, etc!
The net result is that many people come to soaring when they are close
to retirement, hence have more income and more free time. This is not
good, in my opinion.

> Robert Mudd

--

Michel TALON

[Tony Verhulst]

>.... pete was born in krautland,
> raised in Chicago, returned to krautland for 20 years, then infected
> the southern queerland area. Haven't heard recently, but I think he's
> still in lost angles.


I started reading and posting on USENET about the same time I started
flying gliders - about 1984. Back then, there was net.aviation - one
newsgroup for all of aviation and 50 posts a day was a really big day.
We've grown since the by more than a little and in all that time, not
once have I felt the need for a kill file. Not once! I have one now.
Lennie.... plonk!

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

P.S. People, if you ignore him, I mean really ignore him, he WILL go away.

[Leon McAtee]

(Lennie the Lurker) wrote in message >...

> I am not casting dispersion on those that do not leave, but do take
> offense on attitudes of elitism and superiority where they surface.
> Soaring is basically a cluster of rich old conservatives, and they
> brought their rich old conservative ideas and attitudes toward others
> with them. The idea of being satisfied with what one has is totally
> alien, lusting uselessly after the latest and greatest, bankrupt
> yourself for something supposedly better is what you're supposed to
> do.

I'm just getting started and I don't really think this is the case -
though it does seem to be a fairly common opinion/urban legand. Even
if it turns out that there is an over abundance of snobery in the
sport - so what? Just do what you want and let the others think what
they may. Ever seen the movie Caddy Shack?
==============
Leon McAtee
Flying on wood-n-glue........couldn't care less about competition.
Just want to fly.

[Robert Ehrlich]

Michel Talon wrote:
> ...
> Now here in France, clubs make an effort and tarifs are
> cheaper for youngs. Still you need a fair amount of income to afford
> paying these tarifs for all your children, plus yourself, etc!
> The net result is that many people come to soaring when they are close
> to retirement, hence have more income and more free time. This is not
> good, in my opinion.
>

This is necessary in order to keep cheaper fees for youngs. It doesn't
make any sense to have e.g. 75% of normal costs for youngs under 25
if everybody is under 25. And retired people in many clubs, including
mine, are contributing to lower the costs by spending a lot of time
working on various things in the clubs for free.