IMI versus MM Fab Riggers

[[email protected]]

Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use. The IMI seems to cost less. Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
Tom A

[Ron Gleason]

On Monday, 4 December 2017 19:33:46 UTC-7, wrote:
> Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use. The IMI seems to cost less. Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
> Tom A

Can only speak about the MM Rigger as that is what I use, have only seen the IMI from afar. The MM Rigger is well built has been constantly tweaked over the years by the original designer, Steve K. I have known Mark Mocho from MM for a few decades starting during the HG days. He makes great products and provides awesome support and I am sure he will continue with the MM Rigger.

American designed, American made, American supported. Does not get any better and you cannot go wrong with the MM Rigger.

[AS]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:33:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use. The IMI seems to cost less. Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
> Tom A

I have not seen or used a MM-self rigger but I have used two IMI products so far.
Currently, I am using a IMI-self rigger for my Calif and it works great. I can put the outer wing panels on by myself (same length than a 'normal' 15m ship). The gas strut has become a bit weak but I can replace it w/o special tools. What I really like is the fact that the entire rigger breaks down into several pieces w/o the need for tools and can be stored flat in the trailer. Well designed and built.

Uli
'AS'

[[email protected]]

Steve invented the 3 wheeler which won't flip over in most cases. With a 2 wheeler, a problem arises during disassembly when wing is lifted off the tool to shove it into the trailer............the out-rigger wheels are retracted and you must remember to extend them or the stand will fall over as you lift the wing, prior to shoving it into the trailer. If the tool falls over it will most likely strike your fuselage! Ask me how I know this to be true!

The 3 wheeler with lateral adjustment does have a hidden flaw. Steve's original design didn't have lateral adjustment and the vertical post was welded in a stable location. The lateral modification alllowes the vertical post to move well past the "stable" location of the original design. If the operator forgets to lock the lateral adjustment, a slight wind can/will allow the rig to move all the way to the "unstable" end position and the wing and tool can flip over.........ask me how I know this?
All in all, I believe the 3 wheeler to be the better design, but both models demand your un-divided attention!
Hope this helps,
JJ

[JS[_5_]]

I've used the Cobra manual, Cobra electric, Udo Rumpf with and without lateral adjustment, Steve Koerner with and without lateral adjustment, an old style Mark Mocho rigger, and a couple of home made ones.
Will use an IMI electric in a week.
Not a fan of the gas strut versions of any of them. Thought the one Udo made for my 26E was the best.
The training wheels that you spin out of the way can be a problem, but so can the tricycle gear if the glider has a lot of dihedral.
ASW20 will be easy to rig. Anything with spar end spiggots (mostly old but plenty are still made, like New Ventus and JS3) are more difficult.
With any rigger, get flat free wheels or make the wheels flat free. Some older Koerner ones had low capacity wheels that fail, believe MM has fixed that.
Jim


On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 7:22:41 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Steve invented the 3 wheeler which won't flip over in most cases. With a 2 wheeler, a problem arises during disassembly when wing is lifted off the tool to shove it into the trailer............the out-rigger wheels are retracted and you must remember to extend them or the stand will fall over as you lift the wing, prior to shoving it into the trailer. If the tool falls over it will most likely strike your fuselage! Ask me how I know this to be true!
>
> The 3 wheeler with lateral adjustment does have a hidden flaw. Steve's original design didn't have lateral adjustment and the vertical post was welded in a stable location. The lateral modification alllowes the vertical post to move well past the "stable" location of the original design. If the operator forgets to lock the lateral adjustment, a slight wind can/will allow the rig to move all the way to the "unstable" end position and the wing and tool can flip over.........ask me how I know this?
> All in all, I believe the 3 wheeler to be the better design, but both models demand your un-divided attention!
> Hope this helps,
> JJ

[chuck[_3_]]

Agree with JS on the Udo rig. Any idea where he got his crank mechanism?
Chuck

[Jock Proudfoot]

At 20:02 05 December 2017, chuck wrote:
>Agree with JS on the Udo rig. Any idea where he got his crank
mechanism?
>Chuck
>

Mercedes car jack from the junk yard for the first few. Later he bought
them new from a car dealer.

[Dave Nadler]

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:33:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use.
> The IMI seems to cost less.
> Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.

I've owned Udo, Cobra, and lately IMI riggers. Also used several others.
IMI is the best I've used:
- Constructed with large aluminum square tubes - string and light
- Nice big pneumatic wells roll easy over soft ground
- Beautifully made.
With a string gauge (not shown in video) I solo assemble my ArcusM quickly
and easily. I modified a non-electric unit to electric; probably you've seen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUQLSgUpoY

No more strained back!
Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:33:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use.
> > The IMI seems to cost less.
> > Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
>
> I've owned Udo, Cobra, and lately IMI riggers. Also used several others.
> IMI is the best I've used:
> - Constructed with large aluminum square tubes - string and light
> - Nice big pneumatic wells roll easy over soft ground
> - Beautifully made.
> With a string gauge (not shown in video) I solo assemble my ArcusM quickly
> and easily. I modified a non-electric unit to electric; probably you've seen:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUQLSgUpoY
>
> No more strained back!
> Hope that helps,
> Best Regards, Dave

Or, you can build your own "Power Rigger" with dual remote controlled axes as I did for my '29. This is my second iteration, the first had only the vertical motion. Yes, I could be a little more verbal in my explanations - be like Dave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI

Herb

[[email protected]]

Beautiful !
can you send me a link to more pictures ?
dan at crosscountrybox dot com
Dan

On Wednesday, December 6, 2017 at 9:37:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 7:48:23 PM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
> > On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:33:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > > Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use.
> > > The IMI seems to cost less.
> > > Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
> >
> > I've owned Udo, Cobra, and lately IMI riggers. Also used several others.
> > IMI is the best I've used:
> > - Constructed with large aluminum square tubes - string and light
> > - Nice big pneumatic wells roll easy over soft ground
> > - Beautifully made.
> > With a string gauge (not shown in video) I solo assemble my ArcusM quickly
> > and easily. I modified a non-electric unit to electric; probably you've seen:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUQLSgUpoY
> >
> > No more strained back!
> > Hope that helps,
> > Best Regards, Dave
>
> Or, you can build your own "Power Rigger" with dual remote controlled axes as I did for my '29. This is my second iteration, the first had only the vertical motion. Yes, I could be a little more verbal in my explanations - be like Dave.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnmaUsPtvSI
>
> Herb

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Here you go, great rigger!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZZIJhyukPw


On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 6:33:46 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use. The IMI seems to cost less. Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
> Tom A

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 5:48:23 PM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:33:46 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Looking for a rigger to use on ASW 20. Have seen both brands in common use.
> > The IMI seems to cost less.
> > Would be interested in discussion of pros and cons of the two different makes.
>
> I've owned Udo, Cobra, and lately IMI riggers. Also used several others.
> IMI is the best I've used:
> - Constructed with large aluminum square tubes - string and light
> - Nice big pneumatic wells roll easy over soft ground
> - Beautifully made.
> With a string gauge (not shown in video) I solo assemble my ArcusM quickly
> and easily. I modified a non-electric unit to electric; probably you've seen:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUQLSgUpoY
>
> No more strained back!
> Hope that helps,
> Best Regards, Dave

Took a couple more days than planned, but an update:
The IMI electric rigger is excellent.
Jim

[Echo]

Where's the best to buy the IMI electric rigger?

E

[JS[_5_]]

On Friday, December 15, 2017 at 6:37:59 PM UTC-8, Echo wrote:
> Where's the best to buy the IMI electric rigger?
>
> E

Est vous dans l'etats-unis?
If so, check with Wings and Wheels but I think they delivered quite a few from their stock lately. We got ours on their Black Friday sale, cheap *******s that we are.
Jim