Removing JB Weld?

[Richard Lamb]

The oil tank o this particular A-65 has a small leak near the
mounting flange. The owner has repeatedly applied JB Weld in
an effort to stop the leak, but without much sucess.

So we are going to try brazing the thing, but first have to
remove a pound or so of stickum.

Any suggestions on what NOT to do???


Richard

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:33:42 GMT, Richard Lamb >
wrote:

>Any suggestions on what NOT to do???

Were you planning on running some sort of inert gas through the tank
while brazing?

Speaking of brazing, I wonder if the torch would cause the JB weld to
flake off?

Corky Scott

[Corrie]

Richard Lamb > wrote in message >...
> The oil tank o this particular A-65 has a small leak near the
> mounting flange. The owner has repeatedly applied JB Weld in
> an effort to stop the leak, but without much sucess.
>
> So we are going to try brazing the thing, but first have to
> remove a pound or so of stickum.
>
> Any suggestions on what NOT to do???
>
>
> Richard

Don't go after it with a Dremel tool without safety glasses. There's
a POUND of the stuff on there? sheesh!

[Ryan Young]

> Were you planning on running some sort of inert gas through the tank
> while brazing?

I'm told that car exhaust works pretty good for an inert gas. Oil
tankers use their main engines as inert gas generators for the ullage
space above the crude oil level in slack tanks.
>
> Speaking of brazing, I wonder if the torch would cause the JB weld to
> flake off?

I'd try putting the whole tank in an oven, and cranking it up in
stages to something on the order of 300 degrees, maybe hotter. Epoxies
soften with heat, plus they have different coefficients of expansion
than filled epoxies. That oughta loosen things up wihout creating a
cloud of toxic smoke.

Then use a brass scraper, and have at it.

===============================================

Have I ever done this? NO. I did get the first idea directly from a
friend who patched car gas tanks. He'd jam the neck of the gas tank
over the exhaust pipe of an idling car, then pop a tennis ball in the
neck as a cork, and start up his torch.

He still walks among us.

[Don Lewis n FTW]

>
> I'm told that car exhaust works pretty good for an inert gas. Oil
> tankers use their main engines as inert gas generators for the ullage
> space above the crude oil level in slack tanks.
> >
it.
>
> ===============================================
>
> Have I ever done this? NO. I did get the first idea directly from a
> friend who patched car gas tanks. He'd jam the neck of the gas tank
> over the exhaust pipe of an idling car, then pop a tennis ball in the
> neck as a cork, and start up his torch.
>
> He still walks among us.

He is lucky.... I lost a cousin about 45 years ago in Ardmore,OK. doing just that...
He was a pro. oilfield welder and on a Sunday morning someone brought in a must do now job... So while the family went to church he
started welding on the top of a tank large enough to get on top of it... He used that old trick of exhaust into the tank... Worked
for a while on it and the father-in -law drove up..They went into the kitchen for a little coffee and my cousin left the truck
idling... after a period of time the father-in law left and my cousin went back to work... The father-in -law heard the explosion
as he drove away... As soon as he struck an arc the tank exploded...
The conclusion was a plug or more fouled out while the engine was idling...
I always fill any tank with water....
Don Lewis

[Richard Lamb]

Cy reminded me that the flange is _welded_ to the tank and that
brazing it will cause a contamination issue that will prevent
any further welding (if necessary).

The reason I was thinking braze is to help prevent warping the
flange with localized welding temperatures.

Back to scratching my head, but the point is well taken...


Richard

[UltraJohn]

My only experience is with motorcycle tanks and filling with water really
sucks the heat out making it hard to weld to!
John



Don Lewis n FTW wrote:

>>
>> I'm told that car exhaust works pretty good for an inert gas. Oil
>> tankers use their main engines as inert gas generators for the ullage
>> space above the crude oil level in slack tanks.
>> >
> it.
>>
>> ===============================================
>>
>> Have I ever done this? NO. I did get the first idea directly from a
>> friend who patched car gas tanks. He'd jam the neck of the gas tank
>> over the exhaust pipe of an idling car, then pop a tennis ball in the
>> neck as a cork, and start up his torch.
>>
>> He still walks among us.
>
> He is lucky.... I lost a cousin about 45 years ago in Ardmore,OK. doing
> just that... He was a pro. oilfield welder and on a Sunday morning someone
> brought in a must do now job... So while the family went to church he
> started welding on the top of a tank large enough to get on top of it...
> He used that old trick of exhaust into the tank... Worked
> for a while on it and the father-in -law drove up..They went into the
> kitchen for a little coffee and my cousin left the truck
> idling... after a period of time the father-in law left and my cousin
> went back to work... The father-in -law heard the explosion as he drove
> away... As soon as he struck an arc the tank exploded... The conclusion
> was a plug or more fouled out while the engine was idling... I always fill
> any tank with water.... Don Lewis
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 00:03:13 GMT, "Don Lewis n FTW"
> wrote:

>>
>> I'm told that car exhaust works pretty good for an inert gas. Oil
>> tankers use their main engines as inert gas generators for the ullage
>> space above the crude oil level in slack tanks.
>> >
>it.
>>
>> ===============================================
>>
>> Have I ever done this? NO. I did get the first idea directly from a
>> friend who patched car gas tanks. He'd jam the neck of the gas tank
>> over the exhaust pipe of an idling car, then pop a tennis ball in the
>> neck as a cork, and start up his torch.
>>
>> He still walks among us.
>
>He is lucky.... I lost a cousin about 45 years ago in Ardmore,OK. doing just that...
>He was a pro. oilfield welder and on a Sunday morning someone brought in a must do now job... So while the family went to church he
>started welding on the top of a tank large enough to get on top of it... He used that old trick of exhaust into the tank... Worked
>for a while on it and the father-in -law drove up..They went into the kitchen for a little coffee and my cousin left the truck
>idling... after a period of time the father-in law left and my cousin went back to work... The father-in -law heard the explosion
>as he drove away... As soon as he struck an arc the tank exploded...
>The conclusion was a plug or more fouled out while the engine was idling...
>I always fill any tank with water....
>Don Lewis

And even water is not necessariy safe. The tank won't blow, but a
friend was thrown across the driveway when a pocket of trapped gas let
go, emptying the tank of water in a rather spectacular manner.

I flush with hot water then discharge CO2 extinguisher into the tank
(or crankcase - works good for in-situ repair of oil pans). Keep
adding CO2 in spurts as you weld.. As CO2 is heavy it helps to have
the repair area down.
A 20 pounder is more than edequate for a ripped pan or a snarly
gastank - and the refill is affordable.
>

[Richard Lamb]

UltraJohn wrote:
>
> My only experience is with motorcycle tanks and filling with water really
> sucks the heat out making it hard to weld to!
> John
>
> Don Lewis n FTW wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I'm told that car exhaust works pretty good for an inert gas. Oil
> >> tankers use their main engines as inert gas generators for the ullage
> >> space above the crude oil level in slack tanks.
> >> >
> > it.
> >>
> >> ===============================================
> >>
> >> Have I ever done this? NO. I did get the first idea directly from a
> >> friend who patched car gas tanks. He'd jam the neck of the gas tank
> >> over the exhaust pipe of an idling car, then pop a tennis ball in the
> >> neck as a cork, and start up his torch.
> >>
> >> He still walks among us.
> >
> > He is lucky.... I lost a cousin about 45 years ago in Ardmore,OK. doing
> > just that... He was a pro. oilfield welder and on a Sunday morning someone
> > brought in a must do now job... So while the family went to church he
> > started welding on the top of a tank large enough to get on top of it...
> > He used that old trick of exhaust into the tank... Worked
> > for a while on it and the father-in -law drove up..They went into the
> > kitchen for a little coffee and my cousin left the truck
> > idling... after a period of time the father-in law left and my cousin
> > went back to work... The father-in -law heard the explosion as he drove
> > away... As soon as he struck an arc the tank exploded... The conclusion
> > was a plug or more fouled out while the engine was idling... I always fill
> > any tank with water.... Don Lewis
> >
> >
> >

The "kidney" tank has a very large neck opening.

Might get an oil fire, but no explosion...

Richard

[Anthony]

"UltraJohn" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> My only experience is with motorcycle tanks and filling with water really
> sucks the heat out making it hard to weld to!
> John

Same here. When I weld bike tanks I pump compressed air through the petcock
hole and work with the gas cap off and the hole pointed in a safe direction.
With a constant air flow fumes can't build up and the worst you're going to
get is a flash out where the air is escaping. I've done this dozens of
times with only a couple flashes like I was expecting not that it doesn't
startle me when it happens.

I don't know how big your tank is but if you can freeze it (-0 F.) then you
should be able to get the J.B. Weld to break out easily.

Tony

[Richard Lamb]

Anthony wrote:
>
> "UltraJohn" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > My only experience is with motorcycle tanks and filling with water really
> > sucks the heat out making it hard to weld to!
> > John
>
> Same here. When I weld bike tanks I pump compressed air through the petcock
> hole and work with the gas cap off and the hole pointed in a safe direction.
> With a constant air flow fumes can't build up and the worst you're going to
> get is a flash out where the air is escaping. I've done this dozens of
> times with only a couple flashes like I was expecting not that it doesn't
> startle me when it happens.
>
> I don't know how big your tank is but if you can freeze it (-0 F.) then you
> should be able to get the J.B. Weld to break out easily.
>
> Tony

An interesting idea.
My fridge won't do that low.
Maybe a box full of dry ice?

[Anthony]

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
...
> Anthony wrote:
> >
> > I don't know how big your tank is but if you can freeze it (-0 F.) then
you
> > should be able to get the J.B. Weld to break out easily.
> >
>
> An interesting idea.
> My fridge won't do that low.
> Maybe a box full of dry ice?

Or a really big CO2 cartridge. An upside down can of air like used for
dusting out computers held upside down will squirt liquid CO2 at around -100
F. If you try this wear a very thick and well padded glove.

Tony

[John_F]

Epoxy softens with heat. Heat the part to several hundred degrees
and use a rotary wire brush on a drill to remove the epoxy.

If the tanks exit flange hole size to internal volume is small >20%
you will have to use inert gas inside while heating or the explosion
will not be a good thing.

John


On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:33:42 GMT, Richard Lamb >
wrote:

>The oil tank o this particular A-65 has a small leak near the
>mounting flange. The owner has repeatedly applied JB Weld in
>an effort to stop the leak, but without much sucess.
>
>So we are going to try brazing the thing, but first have to
>remove a pound or so of stickum.
>
>Any suggestions on what NOT to do???
>
>
>Richard

[John]

Capt.Doug wrote:

>>"Richard Lamb" wrote in message > So we are going to try brazing the
>>thing, but first have to remove a pound or so of stickum.
>
> Torch it! I used JB Weld to fill in some dished pistons to increase the
> compression ratio. It worked great for a few minutes until it burned off.
>
> D.


Man I hope that was tongue-in-cheeck!
John (dunking the scrapnel) P. ;-)

[Capt.Doug]

>"Richard Lamb" wrote in message > So we are going to try brazing the thing,
>but first have to remove a pound or so of stickum.

Torch it! I used JB Weld to fill in some dished pistons to increase the
compression ratio. It worked great for a few minutes until it burned off.

D.

[Richard Lamb]

Anthony wrote:
>
> "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Anthony wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't know how big your tank is but if you can freeze it (-0 F.) then
> you
> > > should be able to get the J.B. Weld to break out easily.
> > >
> >
> > An interesting idea.
> > My fridge won't do that low.
> > Maybe a box full of dry ice?
>
> Or a really big CO2 cartridge. An upside down can of air like used for
> dusting out computers held upside down will squirt liquid CO2 at around -100
> F. If you try this wear a very thick and well padded glove.
>
> Tony


I've heard this old saw so often even I was beginning to believe it.
While it is based on fact, it's not seriously practical.

When released (in)correctly, it is true that a CO2 extinguisher will
make a pile of dry ice. But it's a very small pile compared to the
amount of CO2 gas released. It would have to be a Very Very Big (TM)
can in order to chill a that big of a slug of steel to below 0.

Simple thermodynamics, dudes.


Richard (woolly coat and all) Lamb

[Barnyard BOb -]

Capt.Doug" wrote:
>
>Torch it! I used JB Weld to fill in some dished pistons to increase the
>compression ratio. It worked great for a few minutes until it burned off.
>
>D.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I use to think of you as one smart and savvy dood.
Oh well, time to look for another hero. <g>


Barnyard BOb -

[Del Rawlins]

In > Capt.Doug
wrote:
>>"Richard Lamb" wrote in message > So we are going to try brazing the
>>thing, but first have to remove a pound or so of stickum.
>
> Torch it! I used JB Weld to fill in some dished pistons to increase
> the compression ratio. It worked great for a few minutes until it
> burned off.

The fact that it lasted as long as it did says a lot about the tenacity
of JB weld. Was any damage done when it burned off?

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Dave S]

>>
>>Or a really big CO2 cartridge. An upside down can of air like used for
>>dusting out computers held upside down will squirt liquid CO2 at around -100
>>F. If you try this wear a very thick and well padded glove.
>>
>>Tony

Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
using some sort of flourocarbons?


>
>
>
> I've heard this old saw so often even I was beginning to believe it.
> While it is based on fact, it's not seriously practical.
>
> When released (in)correctly, it is true that a CO2 extinguisher will
> make a pile of dry ice. But it's a very small pile compared to the
> amount of CO2 gas released. It would have to be a Very Very Big (TM)
> can in order to chill a that big of a slug of steel to below 0.


Discharging a CO2 extinguisher does not generate dry ice. The
expansional cooling of the compressed gas causes moisture in the air to
condense and freeze. The ice generated is the typical wet variety. Check
your sources.

>
> Simple thermodynamics, dudes.

Sounds oversimplified.

>
>
> Richard (woolly coat and all) Lamb

Dave

[Anthony]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> >>
> >>Or a really big CO2 cartridge. An upside down can of air like used for
> >>dusting out computers held upside down will squirt liquid CO2 at
around -100
> >>F. If you try this wear a very thick and well padded glove.
> >>
> >>Tony
>
> Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
> using some sort of flourocarbons?

Yep, chlorofluorocarbons are banned.

Tony

[G EddieA95]

>> Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
>> using some sort of flourocarbons?
>
>Yep, chlorofluorocarbons are banned.

It isn't CO2, (or pressurised nitrogen). It's hydrocarbon. Read one of those
cans, there will be a fire warning.

[jls]

"Anthony" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave S" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > >>
> > >>Or a really big CO2 cartridge. An upside down can of air like used
for
> > >>dusting out computers held upside down will squirt liquid CO2 at
> around -100
> > >>F. If you try this wear a very thick and well padded glove.
> > >>
> > >>Tony
> >
> > Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
> > using some sort of flourocarbons?
>
> Yep, chlorofluorocarbons are banned.
>
> Tony
You can still buy Halon fire extinguishers. The manufacture of the halogen
compounds is now banned but existing stores may still be sold.

[Blueskies]

Yes, some sort of propane...

--
Dan D.
http://www.ameritech.net/users/ddevillers/start.html


..
"G EddieA95" > wrote in message ...
> >> Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
> >> using some sort of flourocarbons?
> >
> >Yep, chlorofluorocarbons are banned.
>
> It isn't CO2, (or pressurised nitrogen). It's hydrocarbon. Read one of those
> cans, there will be a fire warning.

[B2431]

>From: "Blueskies"
>Date: 7/16/2004 6:26 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>Yes, some sort of propane...
>
>
Not to pick a nit, but there's only one propane: C3H8 just as there's only one
octane: C8H8.

Trivia for today: the octane rating currently used in gasoline was once a
mathematical formula based on octane.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[G EddieA95]

>>
>>Yes, some sort of propane...
>>
>>
>Not to pick a nit, but there's only one propane: C3H8 just as there's only
>one
>octane: C8H8.

Octane is C8H18.

And there are substituted propanes.

[Bushy]

> "Normal" octane would be:
>
> H H H H H H H H
> H C C C C C C C C H
> H H H H H H H H
>

Isn't organic chemistry what chemists that can't understand the periodic
table do?

You know the difference between an organic chemist and a computer?
You have to punch information into both of them, but with a computer you
only have to do it once!

:<)
Peter

[[email protected]]

On 16 Jul 2004 04:41:17 GMT, (G EddieA95) wrote:

>>> Liquid CO2? Are you sure that those computer dusting cartridges arent
>>> using some sort of flourocarbons?
>>
>>Yep, chlorofluorocarbons are banned.
>
>It isn't CO2, (or pressurised nitrogen). It's hydrocarbon. Read one of those
>cans, there will be a fire warning.

My can of Tornado FREE says 100%Tetraflouroethane
Non Flamable but contact with high heat causes decomposition to toxic
vapour.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Del Rawlins" wrote in message > The fact that it lasted as long as it did
>says a lot about the tenacity
> of JB weld. Was any damage done when it burned off?

No, the pistons were ceramic coated. After tear-down, they looked good as
old.

D.

[Capt.Doug]

>"Barnyard BOb " wrote in message > I use to think of you as one smart and
>savvy dood. Oh well, time to look for another hero. <g>

When I was 16, I didn't listen to no one and didn't care what anyone
thought.

I still don't. <g>

D.

[Barnyard BOb -]

Capt.Doug wrote:

>>"Barnyard BOb " wrote in message > I use to think of you as one smart and
>>savvy dood. Oh well, time to look for another hero. <g>
>
>When I was 16, I didn't listen to no one and didn't care what anyone
>thought.
>
>I still don't. <g>
>
>D.
+++++++++++++++++

Hmmm.

Is this a problem...
or a solution?


Barnyard BOb

[Capt.Doug]

>"Barnyard BOb" wrote in message > Is this a problem...
> or a solution?

You asking me? or my wife?

D.

[Barnyard BOb -]

> wrote:

>>"Barnyard BOb" wrote in message > Is this a problem...
>> or a solution?
>
>You asking me? or my wife?
>
>D.
++++++++++++++++++++++

What's her phone number?


Barnyard BOb --

[Capt.Doug]

>"Barnyard BOb" wrote in message > What's her phone number?

Even an experienced curmudgeon like you isn't ready for that. I couldn't do
that to you. The sheer negativity of that woman would hurt a young man, let
alone an old fellow like you. The venom coming out of her mouth would lay
you so low that all the muzzleloader in the world couldn't resurrect you.
She is evil, wicked, mean, and nasty. I tell ya, that woman could teach some
things to the devil himself.

D. (is it any wonder I'm hard of hearing?)

[Capt.Doug]

>Barnyard BOb" wrote in message > What's her phone number?

Get in line behind the poolboy. I've paid him so much money for so long that
I'm thinking of getting a pool.

D.

[Barnyard BOb -]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 02:23:40 GMT, "Capt.Doug" >
wrote:

>
>>Barnyard BOb" wrote in message > What's her phone number?
>
>Get in line behind the poolboy. I've paid him so much money for so long that
>I'm thinking of getting a pool.
>
>D.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I liked your first response to this better...
or did you forget you already replied?

Barnyard BOb