A Motoglider 'Landing Fumes'

[Tom BravoMike]

New from FAA on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BV2yT1Dcdw

Don't know exactly the situation, so I am not making any judgement, just mixed feelings. So, after all, are motorgliders gliders, or not? Most outlandings would be 'No fuel, no engine' declaration.

[Dan Marotta]

Reeeeeeeally?

On 12/8/2017 2:41 PM, Tom BravoMike wrote:
> New from FAA on YouTube:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BV2yT1Dcdw
>
> Don't know exactly the situation, so I am not making any judgement, just mixed feelings. So, after all, are motorgliders gliders, or not? Most outlandings would be 'No fuel, no engine' declaration.

--
Dan, 5J

[Dale Watkins[_2_]]

It's not April 1st

[Darryl Ramm]

Could’nt find the flight posted in OLC... :-)

[Tango Eight]

On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 4:41:36 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:
> New from FAA on YouTube:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BV2yT1Dcdw
>
> Don't know exactly the situation, so I am not making any judgement, just mixed feelings. So, after all, are motorgliders gliders, or not? Most outlandings would be 'No fuel, no engine' declaration.

In the event of a(nother) government "shutdown", I wonder if publication of more "True Stories of Air Traffic Control" will be deemed an essential service, or not.

-T8

ps: "Ten Miles North" of Bowman Field on Google Earth discloses an agricultural area with many large fields.

[Paul Agnew]

The controller mentions turning the runway lights up. Perhaps this was actually an emergency at night?

[[email protected]]

N137X registration is a Lancair IV-P. Not exactly a motorglider. More like a pretty fast, small, short wingspan sport aircraft.

[son_of_flubber]

This video is a little confusing because all of the graphics show daytime conditions. But at one point ATC says that 'we've turned on all the lights, you should be able to see us'.

So I'm thinking that this incident was at night, and that is why the pilot did not want to land off airport.

Can you fly motorgliders at night if you have PPL-SEL+glider ratings? I know that some of them have lights and electrical systems.

[2G]

On Friday, December 8, 2017 at 6:44:14 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
> This video is a little confusing because all of the graphics show daytime conditions. But at one point ATC says that 'we've turned on all the lights, you should be able to see us'.
>
> So I'm thinking that this incident was at night, and that is why the pilot did not want to land off airport.
>
> Can you fly motorgliders at night if you have PPL-SEL+glider ratings? I know that some of them have lights and electrical systems.

He never identified himself as a "motorglider." He said he was "on fumes," which usually means the engine is still running, but will likely quit shortly. He never gave an altitude, so it is impossible to assess his likelihood of gliding in to LOU. If the FAA puts this stuff out they should include more information to put the whole incident into context.

Tom

[Dan Marotta]

Why not?

And you don't need an SEL rating to fly a motor glider.Â* You can fly a
Stemme on a PPL Glider with a self launch endorsement, though I wouldn't
recommend it for someone without a bit of experience.

On 12/8/2017 7:44 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> This video is a little confusing because all of the graphics show daytime conditions. But at one point ATC says that 'we've turned on all the lights, you should be able to see us'.
>
> So I'm thinking that this incident was at night, and that is why the pilot did not want to land off airport.
>
> Can you fly motorgliders at night if you have PPL-SEL+glider ratings? I know that some of them have lights and electrical systems.

--
Dan, 5J

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Saturday, December 9, 2017 at 10:22:14 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why not?
>
> And you don't need an SEL rating to fly a motor glider.Â* You can fly a
> Stemme on a PPL Glider with a self launch endorsement, though I wouldn't
> recommend it for someone without a bit of experience.
>
> On 12/8/2017 7:44 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
> > This video is a little confusing because all of the graphics show daytime conditions. But at one point ATC says that 'we've turned on all the lights, you should be able to see us'.
> >
> > So I'm thinking that this incident was at night, and that is why the pilot did not want to land off airport.
> >
> > Can you fly motorgliders at night if you have PPL-SEL+glider ratings? I know that some of them have lights and electrical systems.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

You don't need an SEL license to fly a motorglider day or night. What you need is a glider license. An SEL license itself is insufficient to fly any glider, including motorgliders, regardless of how much they resemble airplanes.

[waremark]

In the UK there is a licensing crossover. I can fly a motorglider on my Private Pilots License with Touring Motorglider endorsement or on my Sailplane Pilots License. Then there is a National Pilots License (Self Launching Motor Glider). I can count it as glding hours or power hours or both. Hours in a Falke motor glider count for currency on my PPL SEP (single engine piston).

[waremark]

This guys first call says he is 35 miles and 12 minutes out. I haven't heard of a motorglider which can do that speed whether day or night. It isn't a motorglider.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 3:59:40 AM UTC-8, waremark wrote:
> This guys first call says he is 35 miles and 12 minutes out. I haven't heard of a motorglider which can do that speed whether day or night. It isn't a motorglider.

There is so much wrong with this it is embarrassing. It is a PR fail for the FAA who should realize these reports need enough clear information to be credible, this one just comes off as bull****. Turning the opportunity for positive PR and education into making the FAA look silly.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Silly only to pilots though......especially glider pilots..........

Yeah, speed is a bit high for a glider going for max L/D.
Could be doable in a real motorglider, depending on height AGL.

Reminds me of a story early in the U2 history. Pilot calls in from near Greenland(?) saying he had a flameout. Controllers start looking for rescue nearby. Pilot requests 70K MSL, controller states, "go for it"......pilot comes back with, "descending from 100K to 70k MSL.

Pilot made it back to land.

Specifics are foggy, but something like that........long time ago........

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 3:27:33 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002
> Yeah, speed is a bit high for a glider going for max L/D.
> Could be doable in a real motorglider, depending on height AGL.

Uh, 35 miles, 12 minutes, 175 MPH. Only "motorglider" I can think of that could come close to that is the Arcus Jet.

[waremark]

I did wonder about the Arcus Jet, but I thought that would be over the VNE. As owner of an Arcus M I would love to know more about the jet. How much fuel does it carry, where, etc

[Bruce Hoult]

On Monday, December 11, 2017 at 2:08:09 AM UTC+3, Steve Leonard wrote:
> On Sunday, December 10, 2017 at 3:27:33 PM UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002
> > Yeah, speed is a bit high for a glider going for max L/D.
> > Could be doable in a real motorglider, depending on height AGL.
>
> Uh, 35 miles, 12 minutes, 175 MPH. Only "motorglider" I can think of that could come close to that is the Arcus Jet.

If it's statute miles then that's 152 knots and only a little over the sea level 146 knots 270 km/h Vne of a Stemme. TAS at altitude, maybe doable.

If it's 35 nautical miles as normally used by DME .. forget it.

[[email protected]]

The Arcus J was featured in the January/February 2017 issue of "Gliding International." I wrote the article and provided the photos. For more information, contact Bob Carlton at www.desertaerospace.com. We will be doing another installation of the PBS TJ-100 in the fourth Arcus J as soon as the aircraft arrives from Schempp-Hirth in early January. It should be on display at the 2018 SSA Convention in Reno.

[Tom BravoMike]

Incidentally, I have found this one:

http://www.planeadores.cl/main/multimedia/humor-aereo/508-sin-combustible.html