2003 Ventus 2C for sale

[Thomas Knauff]

2003 Ventus 2C

Never flown other than factory test flight



18 meter tips

Blue tinted canopy

Two tow hitches

Tilt up instrument panel

Hydraulic Disc brake

Additiona battery mount

Fin battery

Fin ballast tank

Factory gap seals

Pneumatic tail wheel

Schroth seat belts

O2 mount

ILEC extended probe

Prandtl tube

Lead nose ballst weights

Tail dolly

Ground handling equipment

Flap climb/glide switch

PTT switch on stick



ILEC SN-10B

ILEC SB-9

Microair radio

Microair transponder

Altimeter

Airspeed indicator

Compass



Cobra Trailer

Fiberglass top

Shock absorbers

Wing stand

Centrail rail extension

Hydraulic ramp jack

Tail strap

Carpet on floor

Solar Vent

Swing down supports

Jack and lug wrench

One man rigging

Dot equipment



Today's replacement cost $144,000



Represented by Knauff & Grove Soaring Supplies

[Guy Byars]

> 2003 Ventus 2C
>
> Never flown other than factory test flight

....

> Today's replacement cost $144,000


Gosh, for $144k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.

[Chris OCallaghan]

Guy, a pretty silly comment given the current exchange rate. Let the
man sell his glider as he sees fit.


"Guy Byars" > wrote in message >...
> > 2003 Ventus 2C
> >
> > Never flown other than factory test flight
>
> ...
>
> > Today's replacement cost $144,000
>
>
> Gosh, for $144k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.

[Eric Greenwell]

Chris OCallaghan wrote:

> Guy, a pretty silly comment given the current exchange rate. Let the
> man sell his glider as he sees fit.
>
>
> "Guy Byars" > wrote in message >...
>
>>>2003 Ventus 2C
>>>
>>>Never flown other than factory test flight
>>
>>...
>>
>>
>>>Today's replacement cost $144,000
>>
>>
>>Gosh, for $144k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.

I don't think it's silly: it was exactly my thought, after comparing it
to the cost of a friend's motorglider purchase ($150,000) a few months
ago. Maybe our currency is weakening faster than we realize.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

[Greg Arnold]

>>>> Today's replacement cost $144,000
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gosh, for $144k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.
>
>
> I don't think it's silly: it was exactly my thought, after comparing it
> to the cost of a friend's motorglider purchase ($150,000) a few months
> ago. Maybe our currency is weakening faster than we realize.


$144,000 doesn't seem right. When the dollar was at its strongest, you
could get a '27 fully equipped for $75,000, and the V2c was only
slightly more expensive. The euro may be 40% higher now, but that
doesn't take the price to $144,000.

Tom must be looking at the motorglider price sheet.

[Michael Stringfellow]

A reasonably well equipped new Ventus 2C with instruments and trailer should
be in the region of $120 k at current exchange rates. Maybe the extra $24k
is dealer markup!

There is a virtually brand new one for sale here in Arizona by a colleague
of mine for around $100k. Buy this one and you have an extra $40k with
which you could buy a quite nice spare glider!

Mike

ASW 20 WA



"Greg Arnold" > wrote in message
news:yDetc.21548$bF3.1084@fed1read01...
>
> >>>> Today's replacement cost $144,000
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Gosh, for $144k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.
> >
> >
> > I don't think it's silly: it was exactly my thought, after comparing it
> > to the cost of a friend's motorglider purchase ($150,000) a few months
> > ago. Maybe our currency is weakening faster than we realize.
>
>
> $144,000 doesn't seem right. When the dollar was at its strongest, you
> could get a '27 fully equipped for $75,000, and the V2c was only
> slightly more expensive. The euro may be 40% higher now, but that
> doesn't take the price to $144,000.
>
> Tom must be looking at the motorglider price sheet.
>
>
>

[Chris OCallaghan]

You may think it, and you may know differently, but how would you like
someone taking pot shots at your "for sale" posting? Besides, the
seller only claimed a replacement cost, not a price. I've found that
unless you've bought a new glider, most pilots haven't a clue just how
expensive it really is. There are transport and insurance fees to get
the trailer to the factory (plus a fee for fitting the trailer to the
glider), the glider from the factory to the boat, from Europe to the
US, and additional fees to clear the port. In total these invisible
cost are substantial. Initial certification of the glider is not
cheap, that is, if you want it done in less than 6 months. I recently
received a factory quote for Ventus 2cx w/o engine, based on it the
"replacement cost" cited doesn't surprise me. A total cost of
acquisition might be closer to the low 130s, but that's not the point.
A brand new glider, well equipped delivered tomorrow (as opposed to 24
months from tomorrow) may be worth a premium. The price payed will be
determined by the buyer. So again, my question, why even comment in
the first place?

Is it open season? I've had some thoughts about models and claims I've
seen for sale on this board. My insights might be very valuable to
potential buyers, but I typcially save my thoughts for those who
contact me privately. Why? Because I'd prefer that others with equally
irrelevant opinions (as mine) not stifle my attempts to sell a glider.

[Marc Ramsey]

Chris OCallaghan wrote:
> You may think it, and you may know differently, but how would you like
> someone taking pot shots at your "for sale" posting? Besides, the
> seller only claimed a replacement cost, not a price.

I think many (myself included) are honestly in shock over the current
price of importing a new glider into the US. This "replacement cost" is
close to 3 times what I paid for a new competitive 15/18M ship just 3
years ago. Given that many of us (myself included) are now making
significantly less money than we were 5 or even 10 years ago, the notion
of buying a new glider at these prices has passed into the realm of
fantasy.

Anyone who continues to be able to afford these toys will not be
disturbed by these slightly anguished comments. But I, for one, don't
believe the sport will long survive in the US, if the cost of tows and
new gliders continue to rise at the rate they have been over the past
couple of years...

Marc

[Jack]

Marc Ramsey wrote:


> But I, for one, don't believe the sport will long survive in the US,
> if the cost of tows and new gliders continue to rise at the rate
> they have been....

There are plenty of gliders around. The sport will survive without regard to the
availability of uber-models, if we develop a program for introducing new (young)
people to the sport.

Learning to fly in a glider is an excellent way to learn to fly and relatively
inexpensive. As there are new US-built powered aircraft coming on the scene, the
development of new US sailplane designs promises to solve the performance v
cost equation favorably.

As you say, Marc, those who can afford the most expensive ships are not
affected. They are also not the ones we should be looking to for reinvigoration
of the sport.



Jack

[Marc Ramsey]

Jack wrote:
> There are plenty of gliders around.

The price of new gliders affects all of us. If a significant portion of
those who would normally buy new gliders stop, then they don't sell
their old ships, which means those who would have traded up to the newer
used gliders, hold on to their older used gliders, etc., ultimately
raising the price of a smaller number of decent lower cost gliders that
end up on the market. The only relief is provided by those who stop
flying all together, essentially requiring the sport to contract to
remain viable.

Marc

[ASW24]

>
>$144,000 doesn't seem right. When the dollar was at its strongest, you
>could get a '27 fully equipped for $75,000, and the V2c was only
>slightly more expensive. The euro may be 40% higher now, but that
>doesn't take the price to $144,000.

Actually it is right on. I purcahsed a V2C in 2001, traded money at .82 and
..87 $ per Euro and by the time I had all the options, trailer, shipping and
insturtments and O2 I had paid $ 97,000. We have had a 40 % drop in the dollar
verus the Euro. If you have never bought a new glider you just do not have any
ideas. Tom was the dealer for many years, don't ya think he might know how
much a new V2 is???

craig

[Jack]

Marc Ramsey wrote:

> The price of new gliders affects all of us. If a significant portion of
> those who would normally buy new gliders stop, then they don't sell
> their old ships, which means those who would have traded up to the newer
> used gliders, hold on to their older used gliders, etc., ultimately
> raising the price of a smaller number of decent lower cost gliders that
> end up on the market.

Yes, I've heard the Mantra before. I don't believe that's the real problem.

There are 1-26s on the market for a few thousand. These and other low
performance ships are what new guys and gals should be buying and flying. If
those with more lofty aspirations gave the entry level ships their due around
the campfire instead of disparaging them, it might help retention of new glider
pilots who are not blessed with deep pockets.

The availability of $100,000+ ships is not going to save soaring in N. America.
Newbies don't invest in Deutsche-glass while paying off their student loans. The
availability of a new generation of low to moderate priced N. American ships to
which beginners can actually aspire is more likely to be the answer to our
prayers -- if we can hangar our sophomoric lust for dream-ships whose potential
99% of us will never reach.

Let's spend our money where it counts -- on tows and trailers and training and
practice, practice, practice.



Jack

[Armando Pucci]

You are a really luck guys!

In many countries you have to pay importation tax and
duties…

To import my Ventus 2cM I paid ocean freight, container
rental fee, insurance, and 30% as tax…

A few years ago, I paid USD 2k jus to delivery a Cobra
trailer to SZD in Poland, and 50% importation taxes...
and the glider delay 3 months due a frozen port in
Poland and more 60 due a port straick in Brazil...

So, USD 120k for a glider or USD$ 150k for a motorglider
ready to fly is a nice bargain!

Sds. VoLo.

Armando R. Pucci
Ventus 2cM (AR) s/n# 115
Sao Paulo/Brazil

[Armando Pucci]

You are a really luck guys!

In many countries you have to pay importation tax and
duties…

To import my Ventus 2cM I paid ocean freight, container
rental fee, insurance, and 30% as tax…

A few years ago, I paid USD 2k jus to delivery a Cobra
trailer to SZD in Poland, and 50% importation taxes...
and the glider delay 3 months due a frozen port in
Poland and more 60 due a port straick in Brazil...

So, USD 120k for a glider or USD$ 150k for a motorglider
ready to fly is a nice bargain!

Sds. VoLo.

Armando R. Pucci
Ventus 2cM (AR) s/n# 115
Sao Paulo/Brazil

At 03:42 29 May 2004, Jack wrote:
>Marc Ramsey wrote:
>
>> The price of new gliders affects all of us. If a significant
>>portion of
>> those who would normally buy new gliders stop, then
>>they don't sell
>> their old ships, which means those who would have
>>traded up to the newer
>> used gliders, hold on to their older used gliders,
>>etc., ultimately
>> raising the price of a smaller number of decent lower
>>cost gliders that
>> end up on the market.
>
>Yes, I've heard the Mantra before. I don't believe
>that's the real problem.
>
>There are 1-26s on the market for a few thousand. These
>and other low
>performance ships are what new guys and gals should
>be buying and flying. If
>those with more lofty aspirations gave the entry level
>ships their due around
>the campfire instead of disparaging them, it might
>help retention of new glider
>pilots who are not blessed with deep pockets.
>
>The availability of $100,000+ ships is not going to
>save soaring in N. America.
>Newbies don't invest in Deutsche-glass while paying
>off their student loans. The
>availability of a new generation of low to moderate
>priced N. American ships to
>which beginners can actually aspire is more likely
>to be the answer to our
>prayers -- if we can hangar our sophomoric lust for
>dream-ships whose potential
>99% of us will never reach.
>
>Let's spend our money where it counts -- on tows and
>trailers and training and
>practice, practice, practice.
>
>
>
>Jack
>

[Chet]

>
> So, USD 120k for a glider or USD$ 150k for a motorglider
> ready to fly is a nice bargain!

Well then you are going to be really impressed with the price of my PW-5 for
sale, in contest ready condition. $25,500.

PW-5 120 TT, Excellent Condition and contest ready with current annual!
Applelby seals, parachute, Mircroair, Borget B-40, Borget B-50 and
Volkslogger all integrated with Winpilot 5.20 and an Ipaq 3955. Includes
wind stands, tow out gear, spares, etc. Complete with a beautiful all
aluminum COBRA trailer with World Class Logo. $26,500. East Coast delivery
included in price. Photos available soon! Look for RAS posting.

[ADP]

We tend to get a bit USA centric from time to time. Thanks for the
reminder. We are now paying about
USD 2.30 per gallon for regular gasoline here and it is killing us!

I know it is more expensive in most other countries.

The costs for my motor glider to ship from Slovenia to Cobra is ? 937.00
including insurance, ? 96.00 for handling charges
and about $3300 to ship glider plus trailer from Europe to Los Angeles.

In case the Euro symbol doesn't survive, the first two amounts are in Euros
and the last is in USD.

This seems fairly reasonable to me.

You are right in that there are no taxes assessed in the US for the
importation.
Many States, however, will assess personal property and/or sales taxes.
In most States these will rarely exceed $1200 or so, including the trailer
registration.

Lucky we are and thanks again for the reminder.

Allan

"Armando Pucci" > wrote in message
...
> You are a really luck guys!
>
> In many countries you have to pay importation tax and
> duties.
>
> To import my Ventus 2cM I paid ocean freight, container
> rental fee, insurance, and 30% as tax.
>
....Snip...

[Guy Byars]

> wind stands, tow out gear, spares, etc. Complete with a beautiful all
> aluminum COBRA trailer with World Class Logo. $26,500. East Coast delivery
> included in price. Photos available soon! Look for RAS posting.

Gosh, for $26.5k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.

[Chris OCallaghan]

;-)

"Guy Byars" > wrote in message >...
> > wind stands, tow out gear, spares, etc. Complete with a beautiful all
> > aluminum COBRA trailer with World Class Logo. $26,500. East Coast delivery
> > included in price. Photos available soon! Look for RAS posting.
>
> Gosh, for $26.5k I would at least expect a motor of some sort.

[Mark]

Hi Al,

Don't complain too much about the price of fuel! We pay A$4.50 per
gallon downunder. Maybe you should take the drive belt off the
supercharger on the Ford!! :-)

Cheers

Mark

[Andrew Warbrick]

Mark,

I wouldn't whinge too much if I were you, petrol is
more than twice that price here in the UK.

At 01:06 07 June 2004, Mark wrote:
>Hi Al,
>
>Don't complain too much about the price of fuel! We
>pay A$4.50 per
>gallon downunder. Maybe you should take the drive belt
>off the
>supercharger on the Ford!! :-)
>
>Cheers
>
>Mark
>

[ADP]

Hey Mark,

I didn't see your original post so I'll respond to this one.
Maybe they're blocking you folks from down under!

The $2.50/gal is for regular. The trucks takes super at $2.89/gal.
I'm not "whinging" about it but I'm not taking any 1000 mile trips in the
truck either.
Besides, I like the whine of the supercharger.

When are you guys going to get the Katana into the air?
Maybe I ought to come down and supervise.

The Carat comes in mid July - hurrah!

Cheers yourself (and apologies to this OT post to the group.)

Allan





Mark,

I wouldn't whinge too much if I were you, petrol is
more than twice that price here in the UK.

At 01:06 07 June 2004, Mark wrote:
>Hi Al,
>
>Don't complain too much about the price of fuel! We
>pay A$4.50 per
>gallon downunder. Maybe you should take the drive belt
>off the
>supercharger on the Ford!! :-)
>
>Cheers
>
>Mark
>

[Bernd W. Hennig]

Jack > wrote:

G'Day,

gliders (not only from Germany) are handmade.....