Tying down a fiber glass ship.

[[email protected]]

Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

[Tony[_5_]]

have only done an occasional overnight tiedown. you have screw in rings for the tiedown points on the wings?

what kind of trailer do you have? if you start wanting to deal with covers and stuff to preserve the finish while leaving the glider tied down, you might find that it is just as much work and time to just put it in the trailer for the night.

But for a flying weekend, it is awfully nice to just come out on day 2 and the glider is assembled and ready to go. I get that. If the overnight weather is pleasant I don't think you're going to have too many issues.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

Covers are a lot cheaper than a refinish.

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

Overnights, you will not likely notice. A contest worth, if the weather is nice, again, you probably won't notice if you do one or two of these a summer. Tie it out all summer, you will notice.

As Tony said, for a 15 meter ship like the Std Cirrus, it is about as much time to cover as to rig. But with covers, you aren't lifting heavier things. If your trailer is a pain, do something about it!

For overnights to make the weekends more enjoyable, by all means, tie out.

Steve Leonard

[JS[_5_]]

This is a great subject. Most glider manufacturers neglect the need for real tiedown points, especially on single seaters.
An easy tiedown point addition is a pair of "bras" for the wingtips. Essentially a loop of webbing with a D-Ring sewn in, and webbing to prevent the loop from sliding inboard to attack the aileron.
For gliders with no wingtip beyond the ailerons, adding a hard point is a better idea.
If it's going to be humid/wet, use good covers.

Simple text drawing (from above or below). All are loops. D-ring at the junction on the left.
For something like an LS4 or 6, I found using the (optional) strap around the trailing edge keeps the strap from sliding around the curved leading edge.
Jim

|
|
|
|__________
| |
| | --- (optional)
| |
| |

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:01:46 PM UTC-5, JS wrote:
> This is a great subject. Most glider manufacturers neglect the need for real tiedown points, especially on single seaters.
> An easy tiedown point addition is a pair of "bras" for the wingtips. Essentially a loop of webbing with a D-Ring sewn in, and webbing to prevent the loop from sliding inboard to attack the aileron.
> For gliders with no wingtip beyond the ailerons, adding a hard point is a better idea.
> If it's going to be humid/wet, use good covers.
>
> Simple text drawing (from above or below). All are loops. D-ring at the junction on the left.
> For something like an LS4 or 6, I found using the (optional) strap around the trailing edge keeps the strap from sliding around the curved leading edge.
> Jim
>
> |
> |
> |
> |__________
> | |
> | | --- (optional)
> | |
> | |

SZD-55 has screw-in rings.

[Kiwi User]

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:01:43 -0800, JS wrote:

> This is a great subject. Most glider manufacturers neglect the need for
> real tiedown points, especially on single seaters.
>
Agreed: Here's what I put together to tie my Std Libelle down:

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/tie-down/

I'm very pleased with the result, which work well with or without
CloudDancer covers on the glider.

Rather than Jim's "bras" I made moulded, foam lined fittings that slip
over the tip TEs. If you run the tiedown ropes inboard, over the LE and
vertically down to the anchors, then they tend to hold the mouldings in
place and don't put unwanted stresses on the wings because there are no
fore/aft loads applied. I used:

- balsa and blue foam to make make forms for the foam lined fittings
because my background for this sort of thing is in model building

- carbon and glass cloth plus epoxy for the fitting because I had all
three available

- pieces of a foam sheet underlay for a sleeping bag as the
foam linings because its cheap, soft enough and durable

- 'Claw' tiedowns because they were about the same price as corkscrew
anchors, easier to use, less bulky to transport and have shown no
sign of working loose on strong, gusty winds.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Schleicher has an option where you can get tie down bushings in wing tips for screw in tie down rings. Also a wing wheel saddle is good for a tie down. i have one saddle I use just for tie downs.

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 11:01:46 AM UTC-8, JS wrote:
> This is a great subject. Most glider manufacturers neglect the need for real tiedown points, especially on single seaters.
> An easy tiedown point addition is a pair of "bras" for the wingtips. Essentially a loop of webbing with a D-Ring sewn in, and webbing to prevent the loop from sliding inboard to attack the aileron.
> For gliders with no wingtip beyond the ailerons, adding a hard point is a better idea.
> If it's going to be humid/wet, use good covers.
>
> Simple text drawing (from above or below). All are loops. D-ring at the junction on the left.
> For something like an LS4 or 6, I found using the (optional) strap around the trailing edge keeps the strap from sliding around the curved leading edge.
> Jim
>
> |
> |
> |
> |__________
> | |
> | | --- (optional)
> | |
> | |

[Tony[_5_]]

the Anchors in the Std. Cirrus (and Std. Austria) are really nice in this respect.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:09:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

I find using covers is a little easier on me than derigging (18m motor ventus). Covers are fast to remove. I use a wing saddle on each wing, with trestles pressing up under each wing close by, and straps pulling the wings down on to the trestles. I'm now at Minden, and my glider is outside all summer. It was psychologically hard to leave the glider outside initially, but there have been no problems, and I feel the covers are perfect sun protection.

[Collin Shea]

Anytime I “tie down� my ship for the night I just put two wing stands underneath each wings and raise them to where there’s no flex, chocked the main wheel, and if the wind was supposed to be over 12-15 knots, we would trailer it for the night. this method worked all two weeks of Hobbs, we never really worried about the finish just because it had already seen it’s harshest UV rays during the flying, night time didn’t scare us. But I would never leave my Libelle out for months (Just to clarify)

[Steve Koerner]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 4:47:32 PM UTC-7, Collin Shea wrote:
> Anytime I “tie down� my ship for the night I just put two wing stands underneath each wings and raise them to where there’s no flex, chocked the main wheel, and if the wind was supposed to be over 12-15 knots, we would trailer it for the night. this method worked all two weeks of Hobbs, we never really worried about the finish just because it had already seen it’s harshest UV rays during the flying, night time didn’t scare us. But I would never leave my Libelle out for months (Just to clarify)

Collin's method will usually be fine but it can make neighbors irritated and apprehensive.

One wing stand under a tied down wing wheel saddle; and on the other wing, a wing stand under a tied down wing rigger saddle makes a pretty solid setup (though esthetically a bit out of balance).

[[email protected]]

I have seen numerous times that Colin’s method will bring grief.
If you have not got the sense to tie your aircraft down then trailer it or move it a LONG way from my glider. (New rudder due someone tying down at only one point)
Tom
....

[Hal[_3_]]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

The tow hitch is a very good tiedown point. If there is none, put a solid anchor in the ground and use that. If you do not have a spare Tost ring, get a shackle with the right dimensions at the hardware store. At the very least your glider will not blow away whatever the wind does!

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:09:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

For those who say covering and rigging take the same time, I'd have to question how they are covering and how they are rigging. I can cover my glider in about 7 minutes, remove the covers and store in about 5.

In practice, I wash the glider prior to putting the covers on: the bugs are still fresh, it keeps the covers clean, and the glider is ready to fly the next day. Washing and covering takes about 25 minutes.

I do not tie out other than overnight between flights. Many have told me this is useless, as the sun is low and the UV damage done in flight. However after 15 years of this, the covers have significant UV damage - damage that is on the cover, not on the glider.

[2G]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 10:09:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

Some of the methods described here are fair-weather tie downs, at best. If you value your glider, come up with a system that can survive an unexpected storm (50+ kt winds). I made a pair of wing cuffs out of 3/4 exterior plywood that was doubled up to 1.5". You will have to transfer the wing profile to the wood by cardboard templates. I hot-glued strips of felt to the wood.. This project will take a full weekend (unless you've done it before, then maybe a day). I have used these for several years successfully at Nevada airports that get strong thunderstorms. They can go on over wing covers, or without.

Tom

[[email protected]]

https://goo.gl/images/ZYLcT6

These take a 200kg load, each (445lbs in old money). 1 for the tailboom and one on each wingtip. You’ll pull your star picker out before these let go.

CJ

[Hal[_3_]]

The tow hitch makes a very good tiedown of last resort. If there is no ground anchor, put one in. If you do not have a spare Tost ring, get a shackle with the right dimensions at the hardware store. At the very least your glider will not blow away whatever the wind does!

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the tips and comments guys. I feel much better about tying it down on the weekends for the Xc season .

[kirk.stant]

There is always the Bill Bartell method: don’t dump your water ballast before landing and just chock the main wheel.

Tie downs are for sissies and 2-33s...

(Not joking, as those who flew with Bill remember).

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

This LS-3 was tied out at a contest in Chester SC in 1981. Large angle iron stakes were driven deeply in the ground (by me) and tied securely to the wing. Didn't help.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl63Kh8fmSk4GypoQ

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl7jYnQiqu9IWs9Kw

Guy Byars

[[email protected]]

From Gren Seibels' book "After All," the 1981 Chester contest was hit by a tornado. All bets are off with that kind of weather. Hangars get destroyed, trailers and gliders go visit Dorothy in Oz.

[Kiwi User]

On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:00:29 -0800, gfbwinscore wrote:

> This LS-3 was tied out at a contest in Chester SC in 1981. Large angle
> iron stakes were driven deeply in the ground (by me) and tied securely
> to the wing. Didn't help.
>
> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl63Kh8fmSk4GypoQ
>
> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl7jYnQiqu9IWs9Kw
>
....and notice the trailer on its side in the hedge in the second shot.

If the wind that night could do that to a trailer then any glider that
was tied down the previous evening is unlikely to be in the same state
the following morning.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

[Dan Marotta]

Why is the glider's wheel retracted?Â* And how was that accomplished with
the glider sitting on its back?Â* Maybe it had just been rigged on the
trailer?Â* It appears the clam shell on the trailer is open. Of course
that could have happened when the trailer was tossed.

Recall the story of the very large Cobra trailer that was ripped off the
tow vehicle by a down burst and landed on one of the land out crew (he
survived).

On 1/26/2018 8:27 AM, Kiwi User wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:00:29 -0800, gfbwinscore wrote:
>
>> This LS-3 was tied out at a contest in Chester SC in 1981. Large angle
>> iron stakes were driven deeply in the ground (by me) and tied securely
>> to the wing. Didn't help.
>>
>> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl63Kh8fmSk4GypoQ
>>
>> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl7jYnQiqu9IWs9Kw
>>
> ...and notice the trailer on its side in the hedge in the second shot.
>
> If the wind that night could do that to a trailer then any glider that
> was tied down the previous evening is unlikely to be in the same state
> the following morning.
>
>

--
Dan, 5J

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 9:14:15 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why is the glider's wheel retracted?Â* And how was that accomplished with
> the glider sitting on its back?Â* Maybe it had just been rigged on the
> trailer?Â* It appears the clam shell on the trailer is open. Of course
> that could have happened when the trailer was tossed.
>
> Recall the story of the very large Cobra trailer that was ripped off the
> tow vehicle by a down burst and landed on one of the land out crew (he
> survived).
>
> On 1/26/2018 8:27 AM, Kiwi User wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:00:29 -0800, gfbwinscore wrote:
> >
> >> This LS-3 was tied out at a contest in Chester SC in 1981. Large angle
> >> iron stakes were driven deeply in the ground (by me) and tied securely
> >> to the wing. Didn't help.
> >>
> >> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl63Kh8fmSk4GypoQ
> >>
> >> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl7jYnQiqu9IWs9Kw
> >>
> > ...and notice the trailer on its side in the hedge in the second shot.
> >
> > If the wind that night could do that to a trailer then any glider that
> > was tied down the previous evening is unlikely to be in the same state
> > the following morning.
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Dan, The LS overcenter isn't always as positive as desired. I'm sure the violence of being flipped over caused the gear to retract.
Cheers,
Craig

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks!

On 1/26/2018 1:53 PM, Craig Funston wrote:
> On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 9:14:15 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> Why is the glider's wheel retracted?Â* And how was that accomplished with
>> the glider sitting on its back?Â* Maybe it had just been rigged on the
>> trailer?Â* It appears the clam shell on the trailer is open. Of course
>> that could have happened when the trailer was tossed.
>>
>> Recall the story of the very large Cobra trailer that was ripped off the
>> tow vehicle by a down burst and landed on one of the land out crew (he
>> survived).
>>
>> On 1/26/2018 8:27 AM, Kiwi User wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 04:00:29 -0800, gfbwinscore wrote:
>>>
>>>> This LS-3 was tied out at a contest in Chester SC in 1981. Large angle
>>>> iron stakes were driven deeply in the ground (by me) and tied securely
>>>> to the wing. Didn't help.
>>>>
>>>> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl63Kh8fmSk4GypoQ
>>>>
>>>> https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl7jYnQiqu9IWs9Kw
>>>>
>>> ...and notice the trailer on its side in the hedge in the second shot.
>>>
>>> If the wind that night could do that to a trailer then any glider that
>>> was tied down the previous evening is unlikely to be in the same state
>>> the following morning.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Dan, 5J
> Dan, The LS overcenter isn't always as positive as desired. I'm sure the violence of being flipped over caused the gear to retract.
> Cheers,
> Craig

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

Dan that LS4 found itself up in the air. It thought it was flying and the dummy in the cockpit forgot to retract the gear, so it did it itself lol. "Idiot pilots I have to do everything for them".

[[email protected]]

Back in the day, the rubber-steel bond in the torsional springs at the top of the LS landing gear struts sometimes weakened/failed. The symptom was a fuselage that settled lower and lower to the ground over time. So many of us avoided leaving the glider assembled on the gear unless we intended to fly right away (especially with water ballast loaded).

I wasn't at Cordele that year (thank goodness!). Nor can I recall when I became aware of this problem and replaced my springs. But it's possible that the glider was tied out with the nose on the trailer's fuselage cradle and the wheel retracted. Not sure I'd have done it that way but it's another possibility given the quirky LS gear.

Chip Bearden

[Chicago Pilot]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

Here is my new tiedown product, good for trailers, planes and gliders. two to three times more holding strength than the claw product that everyone uses. Can be difficult to install in hard clay and desert hard pan soils. Works great on turf fields.
eztiedown.com

[[email protected]]

Those look pretty nice...

I've used auger anchors like these in a variety of soils from desert to midwestern turf:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/25-in-earth-anchor-with-auger?cm_vc=IOPDP1

5Z

On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 3:02:54 PM UTC-8, Chicago Pilot wrote:
> Here is my new tiedown product, good for trailers, planes and gliders. two to three times
> more holding strength than the claw product that everyone uses. Can be difficult to install
> in hard clay and desert hard pan soils. Works great on turf fields.
> eztiedown.com

[john firth]

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 1:09:23 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Don’t have a hangar, so planning on tying down the glider, a standard cirrus, during the weekend. Has any one done this consistently. How bad did the gel coat deteriorate; any tips?

Curiously enough, there do not seem to be broken trees close by.
Were the stakes pulled out, or did the ropes fail?
Spar damage?
I tie down a PIK summer only and use a deep anchor chained to the CG hook.

JMF

[[email protected]]

On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 12:14:15 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Why is the glider's wheel retracted?Â* And how was that accomplished with
> the glider sitting on its back?Â*

Here is another photo that shows a close-up of the landing gear area. The glider was tied out with the gear down separate from the trailer.

Obviously the gear mechanism was damaged and the gear retracted on its own.

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvUur2HHyXlUhvl-Op01tLPIvwAeJQ