A Question for ClearNav Users ...

[Jeff Morgan]

I have a glider purchase pending inspection and a simple A/D compliance item. It's a nice ship, and the seller has been an absolutely outstanding gentlemen to work with.

The glider is about 95% how I would have done things had I bought it new, but there are few small items - one of which is the ClearNav vario. It is one of three varios, the other two being a 80mm Sage and a 57mm Borgelt. Eventually the Borgelt will go away and I'll get FLARM, but that is another thread ...

The installed vario is the version with the mechanical pointer arm over the LCD panel. Very nice, but I am considering the full digital vario. Looking at the ClearNav web site, it appears that the same ADC supports either unit, so all I would have to do is replace the panel instrument.

What appeals to me most about the the digital display is the Thermal Assistant. It looks like a very useful feature to help visualize and rapidly core a thermal. Otherwise, it seems the mechanical arm version supplies the necessary basic information. Hence my question to ClearNav users:

Would that be a worthwhile instrument switch? Is the Thermal Assistant useful, or a "gee wiz" feature?

[Steve Koerner]

Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend. You don't have to remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both. There is benefit to having both on your panel.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 9:28:03 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend. You don't have to remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both. There is benefit to having both on your panel.

Many people have both, current advice is generally use the newer digital display screen only if you can only fit one of the two. However the digital display is very compact - not very deep and very light weight. It can be mounted on a post/arm like a PDA if you had to. I love having both.

Here is my solution. 3 varios are too many, and with the CN a second one seems useless because it is really great. I did however want to have a backup in case the glider battery died so here is my solution:

http://clearnav.net/forum/index.php/topic,569.0.html

Chris

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 9:28:03 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend. You don't have to remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both. There is benefit to having both on your panel.

I love the CNv Digital vario. The Thermal Assistant is very good. I haven't flown with the version with the pointer. I wish it had a dial volume rather than the up/down buttons... I have it connected to an Oudie2 lite (running xc soar), with the serial cable from Cumulus. You can declare tasks from the oudie to the flight recorder in the CNvario, which is convenient if you are badge flying.

It does help you visualize the thermal, but I find I don't look at it much, since there is a tone to tell me when to roll out briefly, and it works very well.

[Renny[_2_]]

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 7:12:11 PM UTC-7, Jeff Morgan wrote:
> I have a glider purchase pending inspection and a simple A/D compliance item. It's a nice ship, and the seller has been an absolutely outstanding gentlemen to work with.
>
> The glider is about 95% how I would have done things had I bought it new, but there are few small items - one of which is the ClearNav vario. It is one of three varios, the other two being a 80mm Sage and a 57mm Borgelt. Eventually the Borgelt will go away and I'll get FLARM, but that is another thread ...
>
> The installed vario is the version with the mechanical pointer arm over the LCD panel. Very nice, but I am considering the full digital vario. Looking at the ClearNav web site, it appears that the same ADC supports either unit, so all I would have to do is replace the panel instrument.
>
> What appeals to me most about the the digital display is the Thermal Assistant. It looks like a very useful feature to help visualize and rapidly core a thermal. Otherwise, it seems the mechanical arm version supplies the necessary basic information. Hence my question to ClearNav users:
>
> Would that be a worthwhile instrument switch? Is the Thermal Assistant useful, or a "gee wiz" feature?

Jeff - I have used it for the last 2 years and let there be no doubt, the thermal assistant is truly outstanding! Do not delay and order the LCD display.......ASAP! Now, have fun and be safe out there. Thx - Renny

[[email protected]]

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 9:28:03 PM UTC-5, Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend. You don't have to remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both. There is benefit to having both on your panel.

I use the same as Steve in both my gliders. If buying new and selecting only one, I'd go with the digital display.
UH

[ND]

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 9:12:11 PM UTC-5, Jeff Morgan wrote:
> I have a glider purchase pending inspection and a simple A/D compliance item. It's a nice ship, and the seller has been an absolutely outstanding gentlemen to work with.
>
> The glider is about 95% how I would have done things had I bought it new, but there are few small items - one of which is the ClearNav vario. It is one of three varios, the other two being a 80mm Sage and a 57mm Borgelt. Eventually the Borgelt will go away and I'll get FLARM, but that is another thread ...
>
> The installed vario is the version with the mechanical pointer arm over the LCD panel. Very nice, but I am considering the full digital vario. Looking at the ClearNav web site, it appears that the same ADC supports either unit, so all I would have to do is replace the panel instrument.
>
> What appeals to me most about the the digital display is the Thermal Assistant. It looks like a very useful feature to help visualize and rapidly core a thermal. Otherwise, it seems the mechanical arm version supplies the necessary basic information. Hence my question to ClearNav users:
>
> Would that be a worthwhile instrument switch? Is the Thermal Assistant useful, or a "gee wiz" feature?

the thermal assistant is bomb. it will almost feel like you're cheating. you no longer need to make a picture of the lift distribution in your head. it's really an amazing feature. i love it! the only thing is, i used to consider myself to be very good at this before they leveled the playing field......

[Dan Marotta]

I have both the digital and analog displays on my panel and am very
happy with that setup.Â* Both are connected to the same ADC.Â* The thermal
assistant is more than just a picture, there's also guidance to the
strongest lift with an arrow included on the display.

On 1/29/2018 7:27 PM, Steve Koerner wrote:
> Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend. You don't have to remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both. There is benefit to having both on your panel.

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

On the (slight) down side, the panel of my Stemme is very closely packed
and, with the large front face of the digital display, I had to shave
some plastic off the sides to clear other instruments rather than stalk
mounting it.Â* Not too difficult to do but probably voided the warranty.

On 1/30/2018 11:02 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> I have both the digital and analog displays on my panel and am very
> happy with that setup.Â* Both are connected to the same ADC.Â* The
> thermal assistant is more than just a picture, there's also guidance
> to the strongest lift with an arrow included on the display.
>
> On 1/29/2018 7:27 PM, Steve Koerner wrote:
>> Thermal assistant is great -- highly recommend.Â* You don't have to
>> remove the pointer instrument. The same ADC box can run both.Â* There
>> is benefit to having both on your panel.
>

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

It's a good vario. I had both, mechanical and digital display. But I removed the digital display because I spent too much time looking at the thermal assistant. Technically this feature works very well, but I prefer to look outside and draw a mental map of the thermal.

I changed the CNv for an AirGlide S last season. Variometry is on par, but wind calculation works way better.

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

I do like the CN digital display (which replaced my CN analog vario) and the thermal assistant it great. Yes, it does work with the same ADC used with the analog vario.

That being said you have to pay not both for the CN digital display (~$550) and an additional ~$600 (!) for the XC license. Ouch. Except for the thermal assistant I didn't really need, or want, any of the additional XC functionality* but, unless things have changed in the past year, the XC license is required to get the assistant.

Sure wish CN bundled this differently.

- John OHM Ω

* XC License Functionality Adds

Secure GPS flight recorder to the highest IGC approval level
Thermal Assistant (LCD version only)
Cambridge Dataport
ClearNav MFD Support
Task Management
Outside Air Temperature
GPS Ground Speed
Airspeed
True Airspeed
Altimeter

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Sheesh. I really need to proof read better. Lets try this again...

========================

I do like the CN digital display (which replaced my CN analog vario) and the thermal assistant is great. Yes, it does work with the same ADC used with the analog vario.

That being said you have to pay not only for the CN digital display itself (~$550) but also an additional ~$600 (!) for the XC license. Ouch. Except for the thermal assistant I didn't really need any of the additional XC functionality* but, unless things have changed in the past year, the XC license is required to get the coveted assistant.

Sure wish that CN would bundle this differently.

- John OHM Ω

* XC License Functionality Adds

Secure GPS flight recorder to the highest IGC approval level
Thermal Assistant (LCD version only)
Cambridge Dataport
ClearNav MFD Support
Task Management
Outside Air Temperature
GPS Ground Speed
Airspeed
True Airspeed
Altimeter

[Dan Marotta]

Seriously, why would you not want the added features of the XC license?Â*
If you're only going to hang out over the airport, there's not much need
for a thermal assistant.Â* Not a criticism, but a genuine question.

On 2/4/2018 8:20 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Sheesh. I really need to proof read better. Lets try this again...
>
> ========================
>
> I do like the CN digital display (which replaced my CN analog vario) and the thermal assistant is great. Yes, it does work with the same ADC used with the analog vario.
>
> That being said you have to pay not only for the CN digital display itself (~$550) but also an additional ~$600 (!) for the XC license. Ouch. Except for the thermal assistant I didn't really need any of the additional XC functionality* but, unless things have changed in the past year, the XC license is required to get the coveted assistant.
>
> Sure wish that CN would bundle this differently.
>
> - John OHM Ω
>
> * XC License Functionality Adds
>
> Secure GPS flight recorder to the highest IGC approval level
> Thermal Assistant (LCD version only)
> Cambridge Dataport
> ClearNav MFD Support
> Task Management
> Outside Air Temperature
> GPS Ground Speed
> Airspeed
> True Airspeed
> Altimeter

--
Dan, 5J

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Sunday, February 4, 2018 at 10:04:23 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Seriously, why would you not want the added features of the XC license?Â*
> If you're only going to hang out over the airport, there's not much need
> for a thermal assistant.Â* Not a criticism, but a genuine question.
>
> On 2/4/2018 8:20 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > Sheesh. I really need to proof read better. Lets try this again...
> >
> > ========================
> >
> > I do like the CN digital display (which replaced my CN analog vario) and the thermal assistant is great. Yes, it does work with the same ADC used with the analog vario.
> >
> > That being said you have to pay not only for the CN digital display itself (~$550) but also an additional ~$600 (!) for the XC license. Ouch. Except for the thermal assistant I didn't really need any of the additional XC functionality* but, unless things have changed in the past year, the XC license is required to get the coveted assistant.
> >
> > Sure wish that CN would bundle this differently.
> >
> > - John OHM Ω
> >
> > * XC License Functionality Adds
> >
> > Secure GPS flight recorder to the highest IGC approval level
> > Thermal Assistant (LCD version only)
> > Cambridge Dataport
> > ClearNav MFD Support
> > Task Management
> > Outside Air Temperature
> > GPS Ground Speed
> > Airspeed
> > True Airspeed
> > Altimeter
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

Dan - My initial posting was to alert Jeff Morgan about the additional XC licensing cost (maybe he already knew). To answer your question, the XC navigation functionality in the CN digital vario is nice but, in my case, it is duplicated by my Clearnav II display and with another backup navigation device. I wanted to replace the CN mechanical vario specifically to get the thermal assistant. The XC functionality was superfluous for my setup and I think that the XC should be licensed separately from the thermal assistant.. My $0.02. Thanks.

[JS[_5_]]

I use the CN vario with digital display only - no moving vario needles in the panel.
It's debatable whether the thermal assistant is fantastic, or an attractive nuisance, but it's easy to configure automatic display or not, the amount of lead it gives you on when to open up the turn, etc.
Whether you use the TA or not, the vario works very well. Mine does not connect to the hat removal device on the fin. Tried a few different TE probes including the double one but find the CN works best with electronic TE. You can switch this without re-plumbing anything, to see what you think best in your own installation.
Jim

[Jeff Morgan]

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 6:44:59 AM UTC-7, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:

> Dan - My initial posting was to alert Jeff Morgan about the additional XC licensing cost (maybe he already knew).

Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for the input on this.

I knew about the differential pricing (Club/XC). But, I am not sure the existing license is. I assumed it was an XC license and would be transferable.. I have a little homework to do this week.

[Tango Eight]

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 10:44:17 PM UTC-5, Jeff Morgan wrote:
> On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 6:44:59 AM UTC-7, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
>
> > Dan - My initial posting was to alert Jeff Morgan about the additional XC licensing cost (maybe he already knew).
>
> Firstly, I would like to thank everyone for the input on this.
>
> I knew about the differential pricing (Club/XC). But, I am not sure the existing license is. I assumed it was an XC license and would be transferable. I have a little homework to do this week.

The vario will tell you at power up what license is installed. The license stays with the hardware, it's transferable.

-Evan Ludeman

[[email protected]]

On Monday, February 5, 2018 at 7:44:59 AM UTC-6, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> On Sunday, February 4, 2018 at 10:04:23 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> > Seriously, why would you not want the added features of the XC license?Â*
> > If you're only going to hang out over the airport, there's not much need
> > for a thermal assistant.Â* Not a criticism, but a genuine question.
> >
> > On 2/4/2018 8:20 AM, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> > > Sheesh. I really need to proof read better. Lets try this again...
> > >
> > > ========================
> > >
> > > I do like the CN digital display (which replaced my CN analog vario) and the thermal assistant is great. Yes, it does work with the same ADC used with the analog vario.
> > >
> > > That being said you have to pay not only for the CN digital display itself (~$550) but also an additional ~$600 (!) for the XC license. Ouch. Except for the thermal assistant I didn't really need any of the additional XC functionality* but, unless things have changed in the past year, the XC license is required to get the coveted assistant.
> > >
> > > Sure wish that CN would bundle this differently.
> > >
> > > - John OHM Ω
> > >
> > > * XC License Functionality Adds
> > >
> > > Secure GPS flight recorder to the highest IGC approval level
> > > Thermal Assistant (LCD version only)
> > > Cambridge Dataport
> > > ClearNav MFD Support
> > > Task Management
> > > Outside Air Temperature
> > > GPS Ground Speed
> > > Airspeed
> > > True Airspeed
> > > Altimeter
> >
> > --
> > Dan, 5J
>
> Dan - My initial posting was to alert Jeff Morgan about the additional XC licensing cost (maybe he already knew). To answer your question, the XC navigation functionality in the CN digital vario is nice but, in my case, it is duplicated by my Clearnav II display and with another backup navigation device. I wanted to replace the CN mechanical vario specifically to get the thermal assistant. The XC functionality was superfluous for my setup and I think that the XC should be licensed separately from the thermal assistant. My $0.02. Thanks.

John DeRosa, regarding xc functionality of the digital vario, try this: I leave my digital vario pointing to the home airport. I also may select a different McCready from what I use on the CNII. That way I know at all times how far I'm from home and where final glide is. Since the McCready on the vario drives the flight director, I can select a more aggressive value for that and still see on the CNII the glide amoeba for more conservative values.
Herb

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Herb - Yep, I do keep the digital vario pointing home. I will have to play with differing values of McCready. Good idea. Thanks.