New pilot looking for glider to purchase.

[Kirk Robertson]

Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.

I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.

I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.

Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.

[Tony[_5_]]

a Standard Jantar 3 in a cobra trailer just came up on wings and wheels yesterday for 26,500 I think. I think that if that was in my price range I'd be very strongly considering it. Buy the best trailer you can afford!

[Tim Taylor]

Kirk,

Welocome to RAS. More details about you and what you are looking for will help others give you plentiful advice.
1. Your flight experience
2. Where are you located?
3. How tall are you and about much do you weigh?
4. What do you consider affordable?

[Kirk Robertson]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:20:15 PM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
> Kirk,
>
> Welocome to RAS. More details about you and what you are looking for will help others give you plentiful advice.
> 1. Your flight experience
> 2. Where are you located?
> 3. How tall are you and about much do you weigh?
> 4. What do you consider affordable?

I'm a low time (less than 100hrs) power pilot that just got my glider rating.
Nearby Bakersfield, CA. North of the Los Angeles area by a couple hours.
I'm 5'9 and 190 lbs
It depends on the glider but with a nice trailer I could spend up to around $20k

[Frank Whiteley]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:16:37 PM UTC-7, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:20:15 PM UTC-8, Tim Taylor wrote:
> > Kirk,
> >
> > Welocome to RAS. More details about you and what you are looking for will help others give you plentiful advice.
> > 1. Your flight experience
> > 2. Where are you located?
> > 3. How tall are you and about much do you weigh?
> > 4. What do you consider affordable?
>
> I'm a low time (less than 100hrs) power pilot that just got my glider rating.
> Nearby Bakersfield, CA. North of the Los Angeles area by a couple hours.
> I'm 5'9 and 190 lbs
> It depends on the glider but with a nice trailer I could spend up to around $20k

http://wingsandwheels.com/class/classified.php?id=2222 is near enough to check out. Depends how broad shouldered you are and torso length maybe. Panel and equipment sound dated. Tow hooks may need attention. Yes, you'll want a reliable trailer given your location. I'd suggest stopping in at the Avenal club. Maybe somebody within a range of experience looking over gliders can go with you to check out the Libelle. If there's no parachute, perhaps they can bring/loan one so you can try it for size. Check on the damage history and most recent W/B.

Consider joining the SSA, http://www.ssa.org and coming to the convention in Reno http://www.ssaconvention.org

Call me if you like,

Frank Whiteley
970-330-2050 7am-10pm MST

[[email protected]]

Libelle, Std. Cirrus, Open Cirrus, ASW-15, Standard Jantar 2 or 3.theyre all good ships. Just know you get what you pay for and like Frank said, perform a new weight and balance during a pre-buy inspection and thoroughly scrutinize the aircraft's log books for work you that's been done to the glider.. When it comes to buying a glider do what Warren Buffett says investors should do... wait for the right pitch before take your new bird home. Best of luck to you and welcome to this fantastic sport we call Soaring.

- Chris Schrader

[Frank Whiteley]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 10:33:41 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Libelle, Std. Cirrus, Open Cirrus, ASW-15, Standard Jantar 2 or 3.theyre all good ships. Just know you get what you pay for and like Frank said, perform a new weight and balance during a pre-buy inspection and thoroughly scrutinize the aircraft's log books for work you that's been done to the glider. When it comes to buying a glider do what Warren Buffett says investors should do... wait for the right pitch before take your new bird home. Best of luck to you and welcome to this fantastic sport we call Soaring.
>
> - Chris Schrader

Good morning Chris,

I'd be curious about the 337, but he's close enough to the Libelle that has relatively low hours for it's age that I'd recommend checking it out. Needs to check the joy stick for cracking also. Colin Shea had to replace his last year to get in the air. If the glider and trailer are four stars and he fits, could be a good deal. Resale after a few years is also worth considering. Plus enough wiggle room in his budget to update what's necessary, possibly the plumbing, panel, and tow hooks.

Even if he doesn't go for this one, looking over a few is a good experience in itself. Since he's a neophyte, it's good to know what to look for, thus an experienced set of eyeballs with some experience in buying and selling gliders is very valuable even before finding someone who'll do a pre-buy.

If he can't find someone at Central California at Avenal, there's a depth of experience at Lake Elsinore and Cypress Soaring.

Just my $.02

Frank Whiteley
970-330-2050 7am-10pm MST.

[Matt Herron Jr.]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-8, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.
>
> I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.
>
> I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.

Why not this LS-3a? http://wingsandwheels.com/class/classified.php?id=2659 Reasonable panel for XC, plane and trailer look to be in good shape. Well behaved ship with good performance for XC. 17m tips to grow into.

Matt

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-8, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.
>
> I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.
>
> I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.

- Get the prettiest looking glider for your money, dont get hung up too much on a kind. Right now there is Standard 3 with only 150 flight hours...or there is DG101 that used be be based on my old gliderport and it was meticulously maintained by its old owner. Worst thing you can do is get some junker that hasn't had anything done to it for 20+ years just because you were looking for a brand name.

[Kirk Robertson]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:02:24 PM UTC-8, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.
>
> I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.
>
> I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.

Thanks for all the info everyone, I am a new member at Avenal and have put out feelers there as well with a couple to look at so far.

I'm keeping an eye on wing and wheels for anything in my price range in the western us.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:02:24 PM UTC-6, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.
>
> I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.
>
> I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.
>
> Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.


My Libelle is going up for sale. Based out of Dallas, TX. A great first glass ship with an upgraded Komet trailer. New control stick from manufacture in Germany with good PU finish on wings and some slight aging on the fuselage.

Mountain high EDS with oxygen bottle, this ship flew in Hobbs, NM at 15,000 feet no problem. It was an awesome first ship to me but now that I am 6'2 pushing 6'3, I no longer fit. Curse you hormones...

I'm asking $16,500 but willing to negotiate. Give me a call @ 817-914-0689 or email for more information

[6PK]

On Wednesday, February 7, 2018 at 12:01:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:02:24 PM UTC-6, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> > Hello everyone, I'm a new pilot looking for a decent affordable glider that's suitable for a newbie that I won't outgrow within the first year or two. I'd appreciate all suggestions and info of gliders for sale.
> >
> > I'm currently flying my clubs 1-26 until I get the time in to move up to the DG101.
> >
> > I'd like something with a decent trailer also as I'd like to drive around the west to fly at lots of different places.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any information. Kirk.
>
>
> My Libelle is going up for sale. Based out of Dallas, TX. A great first glass ship with an upgraded Komet trailer. New control stick from manufacture in Germany with good PU finish on wings and some slight aging on the fuselage.
>
> Mountain high EDS with oxygen bottle, this ship flew in Hobbs, NM at 15,000 feet no problem. It was an awesome first ship to me but now that I am 6'2 pushing 6'3, I no longer fit. Curse you hormones...
>
> I'm asking $16,500 but willing to negotiate. Give me a call @ 817-914-0689 or email for more information

If you can fit in a Libelle, you can't beat it! The sweetest handling glass ship in it's class, and the best looking too....

[FreeFlight107]

I have a Libelle 301, flaps & thinner wing than 201, on W&W Will sell to new pilot for $10,000 or?

Wayne at Walker . org
619-888-6119

[Blake Seese 3Y]

I agree with everyone who suggests the trailer is as important as the glider. Easy rigging and transport is paramount! Most will stear you away from a glider that has only flaps. I would guess those who say a newer pilot shouldn't start with a flapped ship haven't spent much time in one, they have many advantages and can be purchased at better prices and are no more difficult to fly than spoilers. They are just a little different. A PIK 20 B is a stellar ship that can be bought pretty cheap and you won't ever outgrow it unless you just want 3% more performance for 3 times the money.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 02:58 12 February 2018, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
>I agree with everyone who suggests the trailer is as important as
the
>glide=
>r. Easy rigging and transport is paramount! Most will stear you
away from
>a=
> glider that has only flaps. I would guess those who say a newer
pilot
>shou=
>ldn't start with a flapped ship haven't spent much time in one, they
have
>m=
>any advantages and can be purchased at better prices and are no
more
>diffic=
>ult to fly than spoilers. They are just a little different. A PIK 20 B is
>a=
> stellar ship that can be bought pretty cheap and you won't ever
outgrow
>it=
> unless you just want 3% more performance for 3 times the
money.
>

Some poor advice been given here. Libelle and Pik 20b - two ships
that Derek Piggot advises a low time pilot to stay clear of for
various reasons. Unless you have way above average skills I would
advise you stay clear of them as well until you have built up several
hundred hours..

Suggest you read Derek Piggott on Gliding. A & C Black ISBN 0-
7136-5799-5. Lots of sound advice on what ship to choose for a first
glider from one of the worlds most experienced and respected
instructors.

[BobW]

>> I agree with everyone who suggests the trailer is as important as the
>> glider. Easy rigging and transport is paramount! Most will steer you
>> away from a glider that has only flaps. I would guess those who say a
>> newer pilot shouldn't start with a flapped ship haven't spent much time
>> in one, they have many advantages and can be purchased at better prices
>> and are no more difficult to fly than spoilers. They are just a little
>> different. A PIK 20B is a stellar ship that can be bought pretty cheap
>> and you won't ever outgrow it unless you just want 3% more performance
>> for 3 times the money.
>
> Some poor advice been given here. Libelle and Pik 20b - two ships that
> Derek Piggot advises a low time pilot to stay clear of for various
> reasons. Unless you have way above average skills I would advise you stay
> clear of them as well until you have built up several hundred hours..
>
> Suggest you read Derek Piggott on Gliding. A & C Black ISBN 0-
> 7136-5799-5. Lots of sound advice on what ship to choose for a first glider
> from one of the worlds most experienced and respected instructors.

Here's "another country heard from..."

Believe it or not, there's only one sentence between both the above posts with
which I would quibble, and it's the lead-in to the bottom post. So how do I
reconcile what at first blush appears outright contradictory inputs?

Disclosures:
- I've not had the pleasure of meeting Derek Piggot, but I have great respect
for his experience in, and judgments concerning, all aspects of soaring.
- I am not a CFIG.
- I (and my ship partner at the time) transitioned into a 15-meter glass
1st-generation landing-flap-only-equipped glider (Concept 70 - think flapped
G-102-ish), me from 1-26 with ~125 logged total hours (he from a Ka-8 with, I
seem to remember, ~the same total hours, maybe slightly more). Our first
exposures to flapped gliders...
- Since that low-time transition I've acquired 2K+ hours in 3 different types
of landing-flaps-only single-seaters.

Both our transitions were of the "nothing to see here" sort for our peanut
galleries. Why? Because - it seemed important to me then, and so I still
believe - we both had spent considerable time discussing/researching/pondering
our impending "step up in performance" and we both flew with "sensibly
developed plans." By "plans," I mean both hopes for success and contingency
plans in the event some of our thinking proved less than spot-on. It was the
best we could do at that time and place - no 2-seat training gliders with
similar flaps (or *any* flaps) existed, and no instructors with flapped time
were known/available to us. Mental prep matters.

YMWV depending upon situation, attitude, inclinations, etc. I presume the
asking of this question on RAS is part of your planned self-education process.
Tangentially, just in case you've not already begun doing so, use the
self-education process to hone your critical thinking skills. In short, try to
get inside every advice-giver's head to the extent of being able to gain some
insight into *why* they are offering you their advice. It, too, matters.

When Derek Piggot initially offered the advice referred to above, he was an
active, full-time instructor in Great Britain, a smallish country (by
comparison to the U.S.), with a relatively high density (compared to the U.S.)
of available used gliders, but a glider population even less dense that the
U.S.' with flapped single-seat gliders available for new pilots. (Over here,
Dick Schreder had been proselytizing flaps by creating flapped ships for over
a decade before the PIK-20 appeared, and even Schweizer was so bold as to
develop the 1-35 at roughly the same time as the PIK 20.) Piggot's advice was
both understandable and sensible. But I'd bet Real Money Mr. Piggot would also
readily agree "one size doesn't fit everyone" when it comes to new ship
purchase decisions.

What I've personally experienced many times, over 3+ decades of being a
soaring nut, is many soaring pilots offering "anti-flaps advice" have "less
than first-hand knowledge/experience with them." That's entirely
understandable, given the relatively low percentage of flapped gliders, and
the even *lower* proportion of landing-flap-only equipped gliders, and every
glider pilot's willingness (eagerness, ha ha!) to talk gliders/gliding at the
slightest excuse. Depending upon one's personal flavor of internal cynic, an
argument could be made that all advice from 2nd-hand sources should be
outright dismissed. OTOH, an argument could be made that those with 1st-hand
experience have axes to grind. I submit "actionable reality" lies somewhere
between those extremes. :)

New Ship Purchasing Rule No. 1 (even though many people fail to understand
this) is: Know Thyself!!!

Have fun in your quest. Dreaming about - and going about - selecting a
new-to-you glider is only slightly less fun than owning and flying it!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 16:21 12 February 2018, BobW wrote:
>
>>> I agree with everyone who suggests the trailer is as important as
the
>>> glider. Easy rigging and transport is paramount! Most will steer you
>>> away from a glider that has only flaps. I would guess those who
say a
>>> newer pilot shouldn't start with a flapped ship haven't spent much
time
>>> in one, they have many advantages and can be purchased at
better prices
>>> and are no more difficult to fly than spoilers. They are just a little
>>> different. A PIK 20B is a stellar ship that can be bought pretty
cheap
>>> and you won't ever outgrow it unless you just want 3% more
performance
>>> for 3 times the money.
>>
>> Some poor advice been given here. Libelle and Pik 20b - two ships
that
>> Derek Piggot advises a low time pilot to stay clear of for various
>> reasons. Unless you have way above average skills I would advise
you stay
>
>> clear of them as well until you have built up several hundred hours..
>>
>> Suggest you read Derek Piggott on Gliding. A & C Black ISBN 0-
>> 7136-5799-5. Lots of sound advice on what ship to choose for a first
>glider
>> from one of the worlds most experienced and respected instructors.
>
>Here's "another country heard from..."
>
>Believe it or not, there's only one sentence between both the above
posts
>with
>which I would quibble, and it's the lead-in to the bottom post. So how
do I
>
>reconcile what at first blush appears outright contradictory inputs?
>
>Disclosures:
>- I've not had the pleasure of meeting Derek Piggot, but I have great
>respect
>for his experience in, and judgments concerning, all aspects of soaring.
>- I am not a CFIG.
>- I (and my ship partner at the time) transitioned into a 15-meter
glass
>1st-generation landing-flap-only-equipped glider (Concept 70 - think
>flapped
>G-102-ish), me from 1-26 with ~125 logged total hours (he from a Ka-
8 with,
>I
>seem to remember, ~the same total hours, maybe slightly more). Our
first
>exposures to flapped gliders...
>- Since that low-time transition I've acquired 2K+ hours in 3 different
>types
>of landing-flaps-only single-seaters.
>
>Both our transitions were of the "nothing to see here" sort for our
peanut
>galleries. Why? Because - it seemed important to me then, and so I
still
>believe - we both had spent considerable time
>discussing/researching/pondering
>our impending "step up in performance" and we both flew with
"sensibly
>developed plans." By "plans," I mean both hopes for success and
contingency
>
>plans in the event some of our thinking proved less than spot-on. It
was
>the
>best we could do at that time and place - no 2-seat training gliders
with
>similar flaps (or *any* flaps) existed, and no instructors with flapped
>time
>were known/available to us. Mental prep matters.
>
>YMWV depending upon situation, attitude, inclinations, etc. I presume
the
>asking of this question on RAS is part of your planned self-education
>process.
>Tangentially, just in case you've not already begun doing so, use the
>self-education process to hone your critical thinking skills. In short,
try
>to
>get inside every advice-giver's head to the extent of being able to gain
>some
>insight into *why* they are offering you their advice. It, too, matters.
>
>When Derek Piggot initially offered the advice referred to above, he
was an
>
>active, full-time instructor in Great Britain, a smallish country (by
>comparison to the U.S.), with a relatively high density (compared to
the
>U.S.)
>of available used gliders, but a glider population even less dense that
the
>
>U.S.' with flapped single-seat gliders available for new pilots. (Over
>here,
>Dick Schreder had been proselytizing flaps by creating flapped ships
for
>over
>a decade before the PIK-20 appeared, and even Schweizer was so bold
as to
>develop the 1-35 at roughly the same time as the PIK 20.) Piggot's
advice
>was
>both understandable and sensible. But I'd bet Real Money Mr. Piggot
would
>also
>readily agree "one size doesn't fit everyone" when it comes to new ship
>purchase decisions.
>
>What I've personally experienced many times, over 3+ decades of
being a
>soaring nut, is many soaring pilots offering "anti-flaps advice" have
"less
>
>than first-hand knowledge/experience with them." That's entirely
>understandable, given the relatively low percentage of flapped gliders,
and
>
>the even *lower* proportion of landing-flap-only equipped gliders, and
>every
>glider pilot's willingness (eagerness, ha ha!) to talk gliders/gliding at
>the
>slightest excuse. Depending upon one's personal flavor of internal
cynic,
>an
>argument could be made that all advice from 2nd-hand sources should
be
>outright dismissed. OTOH, an argument could be made that those with
>1st-hand
>experience have axes to grind. I submit "actionable reality" lies
somewhere
>
>between those extremes. :)
>
>New Ship Purchasing Rule No. 1 (even though many people fail to
understand
>this) is: Know Thyself!!!
>
>Have fun in your quest. Dreaming about - and going about - selecting
a
>new-to-you glider is only slightly less fun than owning and flying it!
>
>Bob W.
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>http://www.avg.com



If you wish to ignore the sage advice of one of the most professional and
experienced instructors in the world, (plus display pilot, film stunt pilot

ect. ect.), who has probably flown more types of aircraft than most
pilots (including flapped only ships) - your choice.

Sorry don't know Bob W's credentials apart from what he's posted here.

[[email protected]]

Well Paul T, I've read all of Derricks written works, no doubt good info there, but when it comes to his opinion of flapped sailplanes, I'll go with others with just as much if not more experience than his. Guys like Moffatt. You would get a very different opinion of the ease and safety of landing flapped ships if you read his flight evaluation of the HP-14.

All that is needed is a proper understanding/briefing of how flapped ships are handled in landing (much different than spoilered birds). If a newer pilot is desirous of getting into cross country flying, a flapped ship is a very very good choice and a confidence builder, knowing that even in the hands of a less experienced pilot , they can be safely shoe horned into very small fields.

[Kirk Robertson]

I just read the article from Derek Piggot and am curious on staying away from Libelles' Everyone seems to love them, do the spoilers just not provide as much drag as others?

Frank Whiteley, thanks for the offer but I'm still just doing reading/research, I'll call when I get a few prospective gliders I need to narrow it down to one.

For now I'm staying away from flap-only ships, I have no misconception about my piloting ability and don't really want to make it any easier to do anything dumb and hurt myself or my glider.

Kirk.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018 at 9:18:52 AM UTC+3, Kirk Robertson wrote:
> I just read the article from Derek Piggot and am curious on staying away from Libelles' Everyone seems to love them, do the spoilers just not provide as much drag as others?

Std Libelle spoilers are ok. Not as powerful as some, but better than some, such as (unmodified) Cirrus. I've seen new Cirrus pilots approach just a little too fast and float waaaaaay down the runway.

The Libelle spoilers are perfectly adequate for a normal approach. If full spoiler isn't doing enough then adding a slip certainly will. The sharp spine of the fuselage means you get huge amounts of drag in a slip. As an exercise (on a long field), I've deliberately turned final at 1000 ft in a Std Libelle at the same place as you'd normally turn final at 300 ft. A slip (including slipping turn) got it down to a normal approach angle and speed well before crossing the fence.

Of course a one-lever solution is simpler, but everyone should be comfortable with using slips on approach anyway.

[Paul T[_4_]]

At 02:37 13 February 2018, wrote:
>Well Paul T, I've read all of Derricks written works, no doubt good
info
>th=
>ere, but when it comes to his opinion of flapped sailplanes, I'll go
with
>o=
>thers with just as much if not more experience than his. Guys like
>Moffatt.=
> You would get a very different opinion of the ease and safety of
landing
>f=
>lapped ships if you read his flight evaluation of the HP-14.
>
> All that is needed is a proper understanding/briefing of how
flapped
>ships=
> are handled in landing (much different than spoilered birds). If a
newer
>p=
>ilot is desirous of getting into cross country flying, a flapped ship is
a
>=
>very very good choice and a confidence builder, knowing that even
in the
>ha=
>nds of a less experienced pilot , they can be safely shoe horned
into very
>=
>small fields.
>

Have 200 hours plus in a high performance plain flapped ship
thanks. My advice stands for a low time pilot.

[krasw]

tiistai 13. helmikuuta 2018 8.18.52 UTC+2 Kirk Robertson kirjoitti:
> I just read the article from Derek Piggot and am curious on staying away from Libelles' Everyone seems to love them, do the spoilers just not provide as much drag as others?
>
> Frank Whiteley, thanks for the offer but I'm still just doing reading/research, I'll call when I get a few prospective gliders I need to narrow it down to one.
>
> For now I'm staying away from flap-only ships, I have no misconception about my piloting ability and don't really want to make it any easier to do anything dumb and hurt myself or my glider.
>
> Kirk.

Std.Libelle is absolute 100% joy to fly even for experienced pilots. Nimble, light on controls, surprsingly modern for it's age (Hänle invented many things we see in todays gliders), and that beautiful classic shape (think of Porsche 911 or Alfa Spider). Like most of gliders this vintage, it is not very stable and requires more accurate control coordination than modern gliders which mostly fly themselves. There is nothing difficult or dangerous, even for low time pilot. Airbrakes are weak, but you get used to them and you will learn soon to sideslip the thing. Once again, pure joy to fly (yes, I wish I had one).

[Bob Whelan[_3_]]

This in response to an earlier post of mine...

> If you wish to ignore the sage advice of one of the most professional and
> experienced instructors in the world, (plus display pilot, film stunt
> pilot ect. ect.), who has probably flown more types of aircraft than most pilots
> (including flapped only ships) - your choice.

We-l-l...I suspect we can agree:
- all free advice is worth - at the very least - exactly what is paid for it;
- everyone is free/welcome to make their own choices in life, and, to accept
personal responsibility for the resulting consequences.

Were it possible for me to do, I'd bet money on:
- Derek Piggott agreeing his general advice about which I posted earlier was
never intended to be "absolutely correct." Stated another way, I'll
characterize it as great advice, based on tons of personal/instructing
experience, soundly reasoned and likely "generally spot on" for its time and
place (ostensibly Great Britain, in the mid 1970s).

I *suspect* Mr. Piggott would readily agree his goal as an instructor was less
to turn out unthinking automatons programmed to do only exactly as he
proposed, than to ensure his (and all) students were thoroughly grounded in
the fundamentals, while simultaneously being educated/thoughtfully-prepared to
safely embark on soaring's life-enriching, unavoidably self-educational,
adventures. Gratifying adventures...though simultaneously and also
unavoidably, potentially deadly. If I'm wrong in this particular surmise, then
I'm OK with agreeing to disagree with the man.

Respectfully,
Bob - from the "Life is Nuanced" school of thought - W.

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This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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