Air Mass (Blue dot) on Butterfly

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Just wondering if the users Air-avionics Butterfly, find the air mass measurement helpful (Blue dot)? Do you find this measurement more accurate and less susceptible to gusts? this data v the vario data? Are you using this data instead of the vario derived Netto?

[jfitch]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 7:54:50 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Just wondering if the users Air-avionics Butterfly, find the air mass measurement helpful (Blue dot)? Do you find this measurement more accurate and less susceptible to gusts? this data v the vario data? Are you using this data instead of the vario derived Netto?

I do. It is different than the baro data, and requires interpretation. I set it for an 80% inertial component, at 100% I find it too twitchy to use. It will often lead the baro by a useful amount (about 1 sec) and in gusty conditions can give you more information about vertical vs. horizontal gusts. I can use it to thermal with the prop boom up, the baro vario is fairly useless for that. I'll use it in bumpy or gusty thermals try to get more information about the structure.

[krasw]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 05:54:50 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> Just wondering if the users Air-avionics Butterfly, find the air mass measurement helpful (Blue dot)? Do you find this measurement more accurate and less susceptible to gusts? this data v the vario data? Are you using this data instead of the vario derived Netto?

I use inertial almost exclusively while gliding (80-85% VAM). Nothing beats blazing under cloud at 100 kts and seeing that you fly trough steady 4.5 kt thermal while variometer needles are all over the place.

During thermalling I find traditional variometer still useful as you cannot totally ignore horizontal gusts and windshear, which TE vario shows.

[JS[_5_]]

On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:14:45 PM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> On Friday, 2 February 2018 05:54:50 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > Just wondering if the users Air-avionics Butterfly, find the air mass measurement helpful (Blue dot)? Do you find this measurement more accurate and less susceptible to gusts? this data v the vario data? Are you using this data instead of the vario derived Netto?
>
> I use inertial almost exclusively while gliding (80-85% VAM). Nothing beats blazing under cloud at 100 kts and seeing that you fly trough steady 4.5 kt thermal while variometer needles are all over the place.
>
> During thermalling I find traditional variometer still useful as you cannot totally ignore horizontal gusts and windshear, which TE vario shows.

I use the Air-Glide audio for most of the flight, but don't look at the the blue dot enough to comment. What's used the most on the display are wind (excellent) and TAS in cruise (important). Believe the VAM mix is somewhere around 60%.
For the gusts Krasw mentions, it seems that if its late in the day and thermals are broken, I'll switch audio to the ClearNav running on 100% electronic TE. But perhaps that's just trying to blame something else for me being tired/rubbish/etc.
Jim

[krasw]

On Friday, 2 February 2018 15:27:52 UTC+2, JS wrote:
> On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 11:14:45 PM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
> > On Friday, 2 February 2018 05:54:50 UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > Just wondering if the users Air-avionics Butterfly, find the air mass measurement helpful (Blue dot)? Do you find this measurement more accurate and less susceptible to gusts? this data v the vario data? Are you using this data instead of the vario derived Netto?
> >
> > I use inertial almost exclusively while gliding (80-85% VAM). Nothing beats blazing under cloud at 100 kts and seeing that you fly trough steady 4..5 kt thermal while variometer needles are all over the place.
> >
> > During thermalling I find traditional variometer still useful as you cannot totally ignore horizontal gusts and windshear, which TE vario shows.
>
> I use the Air-Glide audio for most of the flight, but don't look at the the blue dot enough to comment. What's used the most on the display are wind (excellent) and TAS in cruise (important). Believe the VAM mix is somewhere around 60%.
> For the gusts Krasw mentions, it seems that if its late in the day and thermals are broken, I'll switch audio to the ClearNav running on 100% electronic TE. But perhaps that's just trying to blame something else for me being tired/rubbish/etc.
> Jim

I used to have Glide S with good TE probe, but I'm now installing it to next glider using static ports/electronic compensation, mainly to experiment what happens. I have had good experience with electronic compensation on every glider that has used it. It tells you same thing as TE probe, difference is just mathematics (if static/TE probes are ok).

[Fox Two[_2_]]

I switched from the CAI to the AirGlide last year, and once I configured it the way I liked it, I've loved it. The blue dot is an excellent aid in determining whether a bump is horizontal or vertical; I am fooled much less often by horizontal gusts with the AirGlide. And once in a thermal, the blue dot leads the vario, so you can find the core faster.

But what's an even more important feature than the blue dot is the instantaneous wind data -- it's the most sophisticated wind measurement system available -- and this feature alone justifies the system's price.

With the blue dot showing you the vertical component of the airmass, and the instantaneous wind showing you the horizontal component, you'll get a much clearer image of what's going on around you. This is cool when looking for blue cloud streets, but it is vital when flying in the mountains below the peaks.

Chris

[[email protected]]

I did the same tests last year in my LS8. It did not work. As per Air Avionics advice, electronic compensation with the Air Glide S only makes sense with multi-pressure probes (static / pitot from the same probe). My tests confirmed that - electronic compensation was simply not possible with any of the three fuselage static sources.

However, the vario works very well when connected to a TE-probe together with a Winter mechanic vario. This as long as the T-piece in the TE line is located about 2m away from both instruments. With this setup, there was no difference in the AirGlide vario readings with the Winter connected or removed from the TE line.

[[email protected]]

The blue dot is particularly useful in cruise. It gives a good indication of wether you get closer to a line of lift or a line of sink.

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 5:52:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> I did the same tests last year in my LS8. It did not work. As per Air Avionics advice, electronic compensation with the Air Glide S only makes sense with multi-pressure probes (static / pitot from the same probe). My tests confirmed that - electronic compensation was simply not possible with any of the three fuselage static sources.
>
> However, the vario works very well when connected to a TE-probe together with a Winter mechanic vario. This as long as the T-piece in the TE line is located about 2m away from both instruments. With this setup, there was no difference in the AirGlide vario readings with the Winter connected or removed from the TE line.

This is highly depended on a glider type. For some gliders it works well and for others it does not. I have it installed in ASH-31 Mi and it works well using fuselage static.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

Andrzej Kobus wrote on 2/6/2018 4:00 AM:
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 5:52:52 AM UTC-5, wrote:
>> I did the same tests last year in my LS8. It did not work. As per Air Avionics advice, electronic compensation with the Air Glide S only makes sense with multi-pressure probes (static / pitot from the same probe). My tests confirmed that - electronic compensation was simply not possible with any of the three fuselage static sources.
>>
>> However, the vario works very well when connected to a TE-probe together with a Winter mechanic vario. This as long as the T-piece in the TE line is located about 2m away from both instruments. With this setup, there was no difference in the AirGlide vario readings with the Winter connected or removed from the TE line.
>
> This is highly depended on a glider type. For some gliders it works well and for others it does not. I have it installed in ASH-31 Mi and it works well using fuselage static.

And also on my ASH 26 E.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf