Who Discovered Thermals?

[Robert de León]

I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
actually thermal.

I assume that early glider pilots noted soaring birds and thought "there
must be rising air where they're turning and climbing." I've read a few
references as to WHEN it was achieved by glider pilots (but not a firm
date). I haven't found details as to who genuinely went after one, where it
happened and what they were flying. I'm guessing part of it was trial and
error while slope soaring...followed by "ah-ha!"

[Erik Braun]

Robert de León wrote:

> I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
> actually thermal.

I read about Georgii who tried this in a motor plane. He shut down the
enginge and flew circles under some clouds without losing height. I have no
idea to when it was, but according to this book, it was Georgii.

Greetings, Erik.

[Marian Aldenhövel]

Hi,

> I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
> actually thermal.

I would cite Max Kegel who more or less accidently got caught in a
thunderstorm in 1926 and turned that into a record distance of 50km
as one candidate. The incident earned him the nickname of
"Gewittermaxe".

Another candidate might be Robert Kronfeld who might have been first
to intentionally seek out thermals. On August 6. 1928 he discovered
the circling technique and managed to arrive back 500m above his
takeoff point.

Robert Kronfeld also is the first glider polit to use a vario.
When asked about it he reportedly declared it as coffee pot to
keep the advantage in contests.

Ciao, MM
--
Marian Aldenhövel, Rosenhain 23, 53123 Bonn.
Fon +49 228 624013, Fax +49 228 624031.
http://www.marian-aldenhoevel.de

[Mike Lindsay]

In article >, Marian Aldenhövel
> writes
>Hi,
>
>> I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
>> actually thermal.
I recall reading about someone who flew in a BE2 (I think) from Issy Les
Molineaux to Cambrai (I think it was Cambrai) with their motor idling.
In 1916.

From On Being a Bird, Phillip Wills.

Sounds like someone discovered cloud streets.
--
Mike Lindsay

[Chris OCallaghan]

From the SSA website...

"These slow glides in rising currents probably hold out greater hope
of extensive practice than any other method within man's reach...
....when gliding operators have attained greater skill, they can, with
comparative safety, maintain themselves in the air for hours at a time
in this way, and thus by constant practice so increase their knowledge
and skill that they can rise into the higher air and search out the
currents which enable the soaring birds to transport themselves to any
desired point by first rising in a circle and then sailing off at a
descending angle."

--Wilbur Wright, Sept 18, 1901

[Martin Gregorie]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:01:25 -0500, Robert de León >
wrote:

>I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
>actually thermal.
>
According to Martin Simons (Sailplanes: 1920-1945):

- Prof Georgii declared thermals too weak to be useful in 1922
- Johannes Nehring soared over the Wasserkuppe in almost
zero-wind conditions in 1926 and Max Kegel got sucked into
a CuNim a few days later
- Georgii and Nehring made a systematic thermal investigation
during 1928 with a powered light plane and Alexander Lippisch
adapted the vario from ones he'd used earlier in Zeppelins.
- Robert Kronfeld was the first to use a vario in competition (in
the Rhongeist) in August, 1928 and made the first intentional
thermal-assisted xc competition flight.

You could argue that Kronfeld's flight was the first undeclared out
and return task to be flown because he had chosen his destination
before starting (the Himmeldunkberg) and got back to the Wasserkuppe
against the wind an overall height gain .

BTW, Eqip tell me that the third book in the series, Sailplanes
1965-2000, is due out in July.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Ralph Jones]

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:01:25 -0500, Robert de León >
wrote:

>I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
>actually thermal.
>
>I assume that early glider pilots noted soaring birds and thought "there
>must be rising air where they're turning and climbing." I've read a few
>references as to WHEN it was achieved by glider pilots (but not a firm
>date). I haven't found details as to who genuinely went after one, where it
>happened and what they were flying. I'm guessing part of it was trial and
>error while slope soaring...followed by "ah-ha!"
>
Years ago I was involved in exhibiting some sailplanes at a mall
recreation show. A friendly chap with a German accent came up and
informed me that he had discovered thermals when he was flying in the
Jugendsegelfliegerkorps. "I found zat you hang onto ze clouds"...I was
pretty impressed, and had a long chat with him.

....and over the course of the show, two more people came up and told
me variations on the same story.

I suspect from this that no inidividual can accurately be credited
with discovering thermals; once people were flying gilders, the
thermals revealed themselves as a matter of course.

rj

[Mike Brooks]

Robert de León > wrote in message >...
> I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
> actually thermal.
>
> I assume that early glider pilots noted soaring birds and thought "there
> must be rising air where they're turning and climbing." I've read a few
> references as to WHEN it was achieved by glider pilots (but not a firm
> date). I haven't found details as to who genuinely went after one, where it
> happened and what they were flying. I'm guessing part of it was trial and
> error while slope soaring...followed by "ah-ha!"

According to "The Story of Gliding" by Ann Welch (chapter 10 - First
Thermals):

"However, the first real thermal soaring, without either hills or
thunderstorms, took place in the United States. An American, A.
Haller, and a German far from home, Wolf Hirth, were the first to
realise their opportunity."

Hirth traveled to Elmira, New York to participate in the first
soaring meeting there, bringing with him a Musterle glider. On the
last day of competition, he and Haller made a thermal flight from
Elmira to Waverly, NY.

She mentions Kronfeld, Georgii and others at the Wasserkuppe as well,
but the first practical use of thermals (which I'm taking as Bob's
question) is as above. In any case, the book is a good read and I
highly recommend it.

Mike Brooks
GE2

[Martin Gregorie]

On 27 Jun 2004 12:20:48 -0700, (Mike Brooks) wrote:

>Robert de León > wrote in message >...
>> I'm prepping for a presentation and was wondering: who was the first to
>> actually thermal.
>>
>> I assume that early glider pilots noted soaring birds and thought "there
>> must be rising air where they're turning and climbing." I've read a few
>> references as to WHEN it was achieved by glider pilots (but not a firm
>> date). I haven't found details as to who genuinely went after one, where it
>> happened and what they were flying. I'm guessing part of it was trial and
>> error while slope soaring...followed by "ah-ha!"
>
> According to "The Story of Gliding" by Ann Welch (chapter 10 - First
>Thermals):
>
> "However, the first real thermal soaring, without either hills or
>thunderstorms, took place in the United States. An American, A.
>Haller, and a German far from home, Wolf Hirth, were the first to
>realise their opportunity."
>
> Hirth traveled to Elmira, New York to participate in the first
>soaring meeting there, bringing with him a Musterle glider. On the
>last day of competition, he and Haller made a thermal flight from
>Elmira to Waverly, NY.
>
That was the 5th of October, 1930 - almost just over years *after*
Robert Kronfeld's soaring flight from the Wasserkuppe. Also, according
to Simons, once Kronfeld had made the first thermal flight at the
August, 1928 meeting the secret was out and several other pilots made
thermal flights at the same meeting despite not having varios, such as
a 775 m height gain and a 35 km xc goal flight. They'd twigged that
the cumulus was the key.

Wolf Hirth was, however, the second pilot after Kronfeld to use a
vario and had it installed in the Musterle when he took it to Elmira.

>She mentions Kronfeld, Georgii and others at the Wasserkuppe as well,
>but the first practical use of thermals (which I'm taking as Bob's
>question) is as above.
>
I don't think the issue is all that clear cut. For starters, Kronfeld
clearly used a thermal to get up and away from the Wasserkuppe and
used more thermals to get back there: he knew what he was doing. OTOH
he parked in slope lift on the Himmeldunkberg while waiting for the
thermal he needed to start his upwind leg back to the Wasserkuppe.
For seconds Elmira is on a hill (Harris Hill): not really what I'd
call flat land.

Personally I think a thermal flight is a thermal flight regardless of
whether the launch is by aero tow, winch or being bungied off a hill.

> In any case, the book is a good read and I highly recommend it.
>
Thanks for the recommendation. I've added it to my list...



--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

[Robert de León]

>> According to "The Story of Gliding" by Ann Welch (chapter 10 - First
>> Thermals):
>>
>> "However, the first real thermal soaring, without either hills or
>> thunderstorms, took place in the United States. An American, A.
>> Haller, and a German far from home, Wolf Hirth, were the first to
>> realise their opportunity."
>>
> That was the 5th of October, 1930 - almost just over years *after*
> Robert Kronfeld's soaring flight from the Wasserkuppe. Also, according
> to Simons, once Kronfeld had made the first thermal flight at the
> August, 1928 meeting the secret was out and several other pilots made
> thermal flights at the same meeting despite not having varios, such as
> a 775 m height gain and a 35 km xc goal flight. They'd twigged that
> the cumulus was the key.
>
-------------------------

Good information. From this it appears that between 1928 and 1930, Kronfeld
and Hirth were the first to "discover" thermals as a useful means of
sustained flight, and experimented with the basic circling techniques we use
today.

In Martin Gregorie's post I noted the adaptation of a variometer originally
used in Zeppelins. Was this the first vario for gliders?

I'm assuming the original development of varios for ridged airships was to
give the crew rising and falling airmass readouts so that they could
correctly trim and shift ballast to keep the ship relatively stable.

I remember reading a story about either the U.S.S Shennandoah or the Macon
traversing the southwest U.S. one day. They had a bad time of it as dessert
thermals caused the airship to practically stand on its tale, causing mayhem
inside the gondola.

Thanks for the good answers to my posting.

Bob

[Al]

Lennie the Lurker.

Al

[Martin Gregorie]

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:28:08 -0500, Robert de León >
wrote:

>In Martin Gregorie's post I noted the adaptation of a variometer originally
>used in Zeppelins.
>
Pass. All I know is what Simons says: "The origins of the device went
back to nineteenth century ballooning. Lippisch had used one when
working with Dornier on Zeppelins. It had not been realised till now
that soaring pilots needed such a thing.". This was in the context of
a paragraph about the introduction of the vario, why it wasn't needed
for ridge soaring and why it was needed for thermalling at altitude
over flat land.

> Was this the first vario for gliders?

Simons thinks so. Reading between the lines he also thinks that the
involvement of Lippisch, who was hired as a designer for the RRG
Research Institute in Darmstadt, provided the link between airship
instrumentation and gliding.

>I'm assuming the original development of varios for ridged airships was to
>give the crew rising and falling airmass readouts so that they could
>correctly trim and shift ballast to keep the ship relatively stable.
>
That seems very likely.


--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :