cockpit exit assist for older pilots

[[email protected]]

What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 9:47:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

Strength training. Start slow and light. Gains happen at all ages.

[[email protected]]

We used a inflatable blader with a hand pump for our late instructor to get out of his mini nimbus. worked well to raise him high enough to get his leg over the rail and almost able to roll out from there.

[[email protected]]

Not sure if the comment was serious or gently humorous but strength training does make a big difference. The ASW 24 I've owned for 26 years has the deep cockpit characteristic of later (safety) Schleicher designs and it's somewhat more effort to hoist myself up now. If I didn't work out at the gym several times a week or focus on maintaining my weight through diet and running, it would be a real challenge to exit gracefully, especially wearing my parachute, as I always do. OK, maybe it's not so graceful :), but I can still do it at age 66. And strength training is one reason why.

Chip Bearden

[Tony[_5_]]

https://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/library/emergency_bailout_aid-noah

[bumper[_4_]]

I wasn't planning to announce the new MKII Glider Egress System until the few remaining technical problems are resolved.

Our system provides vertical assistance for rapid egress, ground or in-flight. We call it the Omni-Upward Cockpit Hoister, or OUCH for short. Using a reliable cluster of four 12 gauge shotgun blanks, We have egressed sand bags with only very minor burn damage and leakage. However, we are experiencing difficulty locating persons willing to test the system. This, in spite of a rather generous two-figure post-launch bonus. Well, we did have one volunteer, an altogether suboptimal tester if you ask me, as he refused to stop screaming and calmly explain what he did wrong to cause his injuries.

A previous idea of using a small compressed air or CO2, with a 90 degree ball valve to inflate a rubberized nylon (or similar) lift bag under the cockpit cushion, was rejected as being either too reliable or boring.

[Roy B.]

Try a snake in the cockpit. That would work for me.
ROY

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 9:47:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

Google bath tubs for Seniors and you can get lots of ideas.
2018 Bathtubs For Seniors - 100% Free Walk-In Tub Resource
GB

[[email protected]]

You didn't specify whether survival after egress was required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPolRUz3_qo

[Tango Eight]

What Gregg said. The problem isn't the glider...

if you have issues or doubts, start with a physical therapist.

Basic fitness is the antidote to middle & old age. It'll improve your flying, too.

Evan Ludeman / T8

[Gianni Isotope]

Sorry, I'm sure this is a real concern for aging pilots, but the first thing that came to mind is a large tube of BENGAY®.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

OK, seriously.......

Are you talking a pilot getting in and out or older people/sorta disabled that go for rides?
What ship/ships? What is required in an ASK-21 will be different than a 2-33.
For glass ships, what works on a side hinge canopy may not be the best for a front hinged.

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 8:47:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

Our club has a median age of 60 and several older, but proficient, pilots have difficulty getting out of the club 1-26E and club K-6E. The air bladder may be a solution. Availability? Giving rides in the club 2-33 necessitated the use of a small kitchen step ladder for older or challenged passengers.

[Dan Marotta]

I'm planning to set up the Bow Flex to improve my ability to lift myself
straight up using only my arms.Â* The Stemme's cockpit is pretty deep
and, with a parachute and survival vest (lot of wilderness out here),
it's becoming a struggle.Â* It would also be nice to lose about 15 pounds...

On 3/11/2018 7:47 PM, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

--
Dan, 5J

[kirk.stant]

Sawzall...

Or give Martin Baker a call:

http://martin-baker.com/products/mk18-ejection-seat/

66

[son_of_flubber]

The most effective conditioning is specific to the sport or activity that you want to do.

So the best strength building exercise for 'getting out of the cockpit' is 'getting out of the cockpit'. Next time you go flying, get in and out of it more than once. If you feel silly doing that, or if winter interferes, then figure out what movements and muscles you use to get in and out of the cockpit, and set something up at home.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 1:28:48 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
> The most effective conditioning is specific to the sport or activity that you want to do.
>
> So the best strength building exercise for 'getting out of the cockpit' is 'getting out of the cockpit'. Next time you go flying, get in and out of it more than once. If you feel silly doing that, or if winter interferes, then figure out what movements and muscles you use to get in and out of the cockpit, and set something up at home.

The latest workout craze- gyms full of old L-13 fuselages/sarcasm Skill training and strength training are separate endeavors. Find a strength trainer or figure something out on your own and build strength. Get stronger all around and your life will be better all around.

[Dan Marotta]

Or the Yankee Extraction System <http://www.ejectionsite.com/yankee.htm>.

Oh, no - that would be for bailout.

On 3/12/2018 6:00 AM, wrote:
> You didn't specify whether survival after egress was required.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPolRUz3_qo

--
Dan, 5J

[john firth]

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 9:47:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

The outstanding film "Henry Fifth" shows a great French system for
getting on a horse, in full armour.

The British had a number of systems for getting them off.

JMF

[Dan Marotta]

Better still - VIDEO <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Yw8g1Soigk>.

On 3/12/2018 12:21 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Or the Yankee Extraction System <http://www.ejectionsite.com/yankee.htm>.
>
> Oh, no - that would be for bailout.
>
> On 3/12/2018 6:00 AM, wrote:
>> You didn't specify whether survival after egress was required.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPolRUz3_qo
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

<figure out what movements and muscles you use to get in and out of the cockpit, and set something up at home.>

Google "dips exercise". The gyms have stations for this (I would have said "bars" but I didn't want some of you guys to show up expecting beer with your exercise). But you can do it using a chair, a low wall, whatever. Primary muscle is the triceps, which you can exercise other ways, too.

Useful for pushing yourself straight up using your arms. There are lots of ways to exit a cockpit depending on canopy, instrument panel location, strength, circumstances, etc. Diving over the side is said to work (if you can avoid hitting the wing in a bailout) but I haven't tried that at the airport yet.

Chip Bearden

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 6:47:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?

It might help if there was some place the feet could be braced, to allow the leg muscles to assist pushing back and up.

[Renny[_2_]]

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:37:26 PM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Better still - VIDEO.
>
>
>
>
> On 3/12/2018 12:21 PM, Dan Marotta
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Or the Yankee Extraction
> System.
>
>
>
> Oh, no - that would be for bailout.
>
>
>
>
> On 3/12/2018 6:00 AM,
> wrote:
>
>
>
> You didn't specify whether survival after egress was required.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPolRUz3_qo
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Dan, 5J

Dan - I like it....Here is another potential solution...It does require a very long glider...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsREqsNS_yI

[[email protected]]

Hey, guys this is a real problem for our senior Glider guides! I'm turning 84 this summer and it has been a real issue for a good 5 years now. In fact getting our in an airborne emergency was the reason I plunked down $5000 bucks and bought a ballistic recovery system for my Genesis-2. On the ground I push with my legs and shove with my arms till I'm far enough back to get one leg under me, then I am able to stand up in the seat.................and I'm not alone I watched a well known national champion struggle to exit his 29. Bob More (rip) had a pneumatic butt raiser that boosted him up about a foot. It had a compressed air bottle and a on/off valve that filled a bladder in the seat.
JJ

[Bob Kuykendall]

RAS is having a sad day when I'm one of the people contributing something of actual value:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/eject.html

--Bob K.

[Tony[_5_]]

oh come on Bob, a Sawzall is a perfect solution here!

[Mike the Strike]

On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 7:37:56 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> oh come on Bob, a Sawzall is a perfect solution here!

....from the folks who brought you walk-in bathtubs?

Mike

[Muttley]

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 3:45:38 AM UTC, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Monday, March 12, 2018 at 7:37:56 PM UTC-7, Tony wrote:
> > oh come on Bob, a Sawzall is a perfect solution here!
>
> ...from the folks who brought you walk-in bathtubs?
>
> Mike

some German Akaflieg had worked some time ago on a Ballistic Parachute which pulls the Pilot out of the Cockpit. Sorry no more details that this.

[Dan Marotta]

If you have time, pull the rudder pedals up close, though I don't know
if they or their mounts are strong enough for that.

On 3/12/2018 3:35 PM, wrote:
> On Sunday, March 11, 2018 at 6:47:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
>> What devices and or methods are available to assist older pilots in exiting sailplane cockpits (on the ground)?
> It might help if there was some place the feet could be braced, to allow the leg muscles to assist pushing back and up.

--
Dan, 5J

[Larry Suter]

Maybe something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/Carex-Portable-Hydropneumatic-Provides-Assistance/dp/B0009MFUVS/ref=sr_1_4_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1520999051&sr=8-4&keywords=lift%2Bseat%2Bcushion&dpID=41RIaAZ6LmL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1

[Renny[_2_]]

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 9:45:54 PM UTC-6, Larry Suter wrote:
> Maybe something like this?
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Carex-Portable-Hydropneumatic-Provides-Assistance/dp/B0009MFUVS/ref=sr_1_4_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1520999051&sr=8-4&keywords=lift%2Bseat%2Bcushion&dpID=41RIaAZ6LmL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1

When things do not go so well.....

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Manned+Rocket+Sled&&view=detail&mid=B9C90CD473B7E2F1F35FB9C90CD473B7E2F1F35F&&FORM=VDRVRV

[[email protected]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paDcDvF0aSM

May be way to adapt NOAH for everyday use.

[Dan Marotta]

That's a really nice idea, but it's 4 inches thick.Â* How many glider
pilots have 4 inches of head space to accommodate one of these?

On 3/13/2018 9:45 PM, Larry Suter wrote:
> Maybe something like this?
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Carex-Portable-Hydropneumatic-Provides-Assistance/dp/B0009MFUVS/ref=sr_1_4_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1520999051&sr=8-4&keywords=lift%2Bseat%2Bcushion&dpID=41RIaAZ6LmL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1

--
Dan, 5J

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks Renny - what a hoot!Â* I love those old military test films. Oh,
wait!Â* I was around for a lot of that...

On 3/13/2018 9:53 PM, Renny wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 9:45:54 PM UTC-6, Larry Suter wrote:
>> Maybe something like this?
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/Carex-Portable-Hydropneumatic-Provides-Assistance/dp/B0009MFUVS/ref=sr_1_4_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1520999051&sr=8-4&keywords=lift%2Bseat%2Bcushion&dpID=41RIaAZ6LmL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1
> When things do not go so well.....
>
> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Manned+Rocket+Sled&&view=detail&mid=B9C90CD473B7E2F1F35FB9C90CD473B7E2F1F35F&&FORM=VDRVRV

--
Dan, 5J

[[email protected]]

It was a few years back but someone on this group posted pictures of a system he had set up. IIRC, it involved a deflated inner tube, possibly folded in half so you are sitting on a "C" with the open part facing forward, connected to a bottle of compressed air and a valve. When you were ready to get out you slowly opened the valve, the inner tube filled and boom! (I mean, voila!) you were several inches higher. Very basic but it worked or at least he claimed it did.

[[email protected]]

I see JJ mentioned this a few posts up. Maybe a search could produce the details?

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

While all good ideas (some rather extreme and not good for day to day), the OP has not stated if this is for an owner that has an issue or "rides", nor has the ship been mentioned.

For some of you, wellllll......, good ideas, but likely the ATF (in the US) may want to talk to you about the devices you are using......LOL.......
Ejection seats.....are some proposing that getting out of the craft also means a chute repack each time?!?! Sounds expensive for a DD.......
Could make some great YouTube videos though.........;-)

And peeps comment on wormburners, low saves, etc.........

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 7:14:28 AM UTC-7, Muttley wrote:

> some German Akaflieg had worked some time ago on a Ballistic Parachute which pulls the Pilot out of the Cockpit. Sorry no more details that this.


https://www.akaflieg.tu-darmstadt.de/d-44-soteira/

--Bob K.

[George Haeh]

For a small fraction of the price of an installed NOAH system, you could
buy a
copy of Aging Backwards - and get working on a daily stretching program.

Use it or lose it.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 8:46:28 PM UTC-4, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 13, 2018 at 7:14:28 AM UTC-7, Muttley wrote:
>
> > some German Akaflieg had worked some time ago on a Ballistic Parachute which pulls the Pilot out of the Cockpit. Sorry no more details that this.
>
>
> https://www.akaflieg.tu-darmstadt.de/d-44-soteira/
>
> --Bob K.

I figure the simple way would be to have the seat drop out the bottom and the parachute static lined to the glider. No rockets necessary. Take slightly more altitude than a rocket yank. Way faster than going over the side.

[[email protected]]

If you have a good Dive Shop in the area and go in and explain what you are trying to do they might be about to modify a BC (buoyancy compensator) that you could sit on and then inflate to lift up. They certainly will have bottles of different sizes, small ones used to emergency air could be your air source. May be a bit of a stretch, but if you have a good shop could be worth the conversation time spent.

Kevin
92

[Scott Williams]

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 6:20:38 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> If you have a good Dive Shop in the area and go in and explain what you are trying to do they might be about to modify a BC (buoyancy compensator) that you could sit on and then inflate to lift up. They certainly will have bottles of different sizes, small ones used to emergency air could be your air source. May be a bit of a stretch, but if you have a good shop could be worth the conversation time spent.
>
> Kevin
> 92

what about a lawn tractor inner tube with the valve core removed and a can of tire inflator (without any sealer) might cost less than $50 and be small and portable.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 3/11/2018 8:32 PM:
> Not sure if the comment was serious or gently humorous but strength training does make a big difference. The ASW 24 I've owned for 26 years has the deep cockpit characteristic of later (safety) Schleicher designs and it's somewhat more effort to hoist myself up now. If I didn't work out at the gym several times a week or focus on maintaining my weight through diet and running, it would be a real challenge to exit gracefully, especially wearing my parachute, as I always do. OK, maybe it's not so graceful :), but I can still do it at age 66. And strength training is one reason why.

Especially pushups and tricep dips on chairs - still getting out of my ASH 26 E at
75, and still doing it without removing the parachute, as I want to be strong
enough to bail out. Maintaining a good weight, diet, and other exercise is good,
too, and makes those long flights safer and more enjoyable.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Bikram yoga