Region 9 Hobbs Scores

[Larry Pardue]

I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score Shack
window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.

I was told these scores will likely change.

2004 Region 9 Hobbs Final Preliminary Scores

Sports

1 4407 BAD Kaewert Nimbus 2
2 4394 6W Snead PW5
3 4327 LY Brown Mosquito
4 4188 Z Hill Discus B
5 3989 4A Leonard, R LHP-18
6 3972 SSB Bogdanovich DG-505
7 3924 3R Schmidt Std Cirrus
8 3442 SDR Rohde LAK 17a
9 3418 VA Scott/Lidell Duo Discus
10 3345 1XX Banks ASW20-B
8
CR
XI
ZT
2BK
UI
1TM
2NO
YF
SAM
EE




Standard

1 4825 927 Willat Discus 2AX
2 4611 9L Eli Discus B WL
3 4117 1X Von Hellens
4 4033 V2 Hollenberg LS8-18
5 2934 6S Odehnal LS8-18
6 2802 SEX Hudson Discus B
7 2349 ME2 Prokes Discus B
8 2235 9U Morse SZD-55 1
9 1151 DK Kroesch Genesis 2
10 925 7K Keene Discus 2


15 Meter

1 5234 ZL Leonard, D ASW-27
2 5072 711 Kelly ASW-27B
3 4915 MD Bourland ASW-27B
4 4870 BV Martin ASW-27
5 4826 GW Koerner ASW-27B
6 4709 7F Fly ASW-27B
7 4407 93 Eisenbeiss Ventus 2BX
8 3932 7E Anderson Ventus 2
9 3776 IM Holliday ASW-27
10 3738 SP Shepherd ASW-27B
PC
ZS
TS1
Others I missed



Larry Pardue 2I

[Tom Serkowski]

SSA members,
We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
few
minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
manner.

I feel it is a duty to the membership to let us know what's happening
at our contests. I've scored a nationals in the 'boonies' of Tonopah,
and it just took me a few minutes to send in daily scores and official
updates for previous days. If Charlie's not making daily reports,
then the scorer should also include a few sentences describing the
day.

As all of us here know, if it wasn't for Tom Kelly, the Hobbs contest,
located a stone's throw from SSA HQ, would have been a big mystery for
those of us not there.

The last few years, SSA has done an adequate job of this, but this
year has had a very poor record so far.

-Tom Serkowski
ASH-26E (5Z)

"Larry Pardue" > wrote in message >...
> I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score Shack
> window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.

[ZASoars]

I agree with you completely this has been a very frustrating contest season
when it comes to following contest scores (and comments) . Even now no final
results are posted for Hobbs or Region 8.
I plan to write our SSA Region in preferance to "Hobbs" as I believe several
Directors will provide us with the bestbchance of improving the situation.

[Chip Fitzpatrick]

Although I don't know if the problem is due to the organizers
reporting to the SSA office or an issue at the office (which I'll look
into, I will make a comment. The current SSA web site does not allow
for easy updates. Currently, the webmaster is devoting all of her
time to revamp the website. A construction sign is posted on the
site. The new site will make it easy for Charlie or others to file
reports along with other signifiant upgrades. While I understand the
issue, we need to get the upgrades completed for roll-out in the very
near future. We could just be dealing with some short term pain in
return for a much better web site. Please be patient and stay tuned
for something different in the next few weeks.

Chip Fitzpatrick
Region 2 Director
Web Site Committee

[Ed Byars]

Amen: I've been beating on this "sick horse"(not dead I hope) for years and
have, I hope, influenced Charlie into believing that it's important to let
the hundreds of absentees as well as the dozens of locals know what is going
on in a timely fashion.
I hope my good friend Bill Ruele (sp.?) will get some help for the CD,
Scorer, and Sniffer jobs for the upcoming Hobbs Nationals.
These problems highlight the urgent need to get more volunteers to staff
contests. They don't have to be completely literate. The "colorful syntax"
of our friend 711 was informative as well as amusing.
Ed Byars


"Chip Fitzpatrick" > wrote in message
om...
> Although I don't know if the problem is due to the organizers
> reporting to the SSA office or an issue at the office (which I'll look
> into, I will make a comment. The current SSA web site does not allow
> for easy updates. Currently, the webmaster is devoting all of her
> time to revamp the website. A construction sign is posted on the
> site. The new site will make it easy for Charlie or others to file
> reports along with other signifiant upgrades. While I understand the
> issue, we need to get the upgrades completed for roll-out in the very
> near future. We could just be dealing with some short term pain in
> return for a much better web site. Please be patient and stay tuned
> for something different in the next few weeks.
>
> Chip Fitzpatrick
> Region 2 Director
> Web Site Committee

[Kilo Charlie]

I know that the contest organizers are working their tails off trying to get
things done each day including scores. We should remember that they are
volunteers too.

That being said I can say that the main reason that I visit the SSA site is
to check on contest scores and it has been very frustrating not having them
in a timely manner. It should not take more than a couple of clicks to
submit them and have them posted automatically. If it does then there is a
problem even with the site under construction. Am I incorrect or hasn't the
SSA website been "under construction" for months now. My web manager wife,
BTW, tells me that well managed sites should always be under construction.

Is there something that we mere mortals can do to help make this a smoother
process? I will be at the Hobbs Standard Nats and if I can provide some
assistance I'll gladly do so.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Kilo Charlie" > wrote in message
news:OqcIc.362$f9.94@fed1read02...
> I know that the contest organizers are working their tails off trying to
get
> things done each day including scores. We should remember that they are
> volunteers too.
>
> That being said I can say that the main reason that I visit the SSA site
is
> to check on contest scores and it has been very frustrating not having
them
> in a timely manner. It should not take more than a couple of clicks to
> submit them and have them posted automatically. If it does then there is
a
> problem even with the site under construction. Am I incorrect or hasn't
the
> SSA website been "under construction" for months now. My web manager
wife,
> BTW, tells me that well managed sites should always be under construction.
>
> Is there something that we mere mortals can do to help make this a
smoother
> process? I will be at the Hobbs Standard Nats and if I can provide some
> assistance I'll gladly do so.
>
> Casey Lenox
> KC
> Phoenix
>
Although that may be the case, web sites are often projects where 80 percent
of the results come with the first 20 percent of the effort. 80 percent of
the effort is needed to get that last 20 percent, the devil being in the
details.

However, I was able to format and integrate reports and images into the SSA
website for US team efforts without any real problem from far flung places
when John Seaborn wasn't available. On the other hand, these regional
reports are simply taken directly from Winscore and inserted into a single
table data cell. However, that's part of the problem also, as any
alteration to the asp code on the remainder of the page has the potential of
breaking the page. But the simple edits are something that can be done
remotely, by someone that's empowered and enthused. Perhaps someone could
support the Regionals and Nationals they way John supports the US team.
Hopefully, this support may not be needed on the next web site.

There are easier ways to do it without having to give another person server
access. Of course, that should be done at design time. I don't suppose it
ever occured to the SSA directors to issue a specification and hold a
contest for the best web site design and functionality, addressing the
issues that have been brought up over the years. A prize of $20-$25K would
have been less than the cost of staffing, at least for a year. Competition
often brings out the best.

Frank Whiteley

[Neal Pfeiffer]

While there may be problems to remote post into the existing website
structure, Tom Kelly was very effective in getting much of the word out
through this forum. We all anticpate improvements to the site that will
make thorough reports readily available. In the meantime, would it be
possible for the contest scorer to cut and paste the results into a
message on this forum? There could even be a simple note added to the
SSA site to look here for the latest until the new full-featured site is
up and running.

Wichita Soaring Team follower
& vintage glider pilot

Tom Serkowski wrote:
> SSA members,
> We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
> few
> minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
> manner.
>
> -Tom Serkowski
> ASH-26E (5Z)
>
> "Larry Pardue" > wrote in message >...
>
>>I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score Shack
>>window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.

[F.L. Whiteley]

That assumes the scorer reads RAS. Like cucurachas, there may be 100
lurking for each seen, but RAS doesn't reach more than an interested segment
within the SSA, perhaps 10% tops, even with relays. I can't identify any
activity by Bill Ruehle, Region 9 scorer and CD, in RAS, ever. He may know
nothing of RAS. The SSA newgroups may be more accessible though. There
could be some word wrap issues though, depending on format selected. He has
made at least two of his gliders available to Dick Johnson for testing
though, so he's definitely a soaring contributor.

I don't seen any postings by the contest managers either. I thought they
posted here up to a few years ago, but I can't find anything, so maybe it
was something else entirely.

I think the scorer probably e-mailed the results to the SSA office and that
we'll seem them Monday AM. This was probably the accepted procedure and
then he headed a few hundred miles home like everyone else.

FWIW, I've introduced nearly 1000 clients to the USENET as a resource for
their business, hobby, or special interest. If 5% actually use it, I'd be
amazed.

Frank Whiteley

"Neal Pfeiffer" > wrote in message
m...
> While there may be problems to remote post into the existing website
> structure, Tom Kelly was very effective in getting much of the word out
> through this forum. We all anticpate improvements to the site that will
> make thorough reports readily available. In the meantime, would it be
> possible for the contest scorer to cut and paste the results into a
> message on this forum? There could even be a simple note added to the
> SSA site to look here for the latest until the new full-featured site is
> up and running.
>
> Wichita Soaring Team follower
> & vintage glider pilot
>
> Tom Serkowski wrote:
> > SSA members,
> > We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
> > few
> > minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
> > manner.
> >
> > -Tom Serkowski
> > ASH-26E (5Z)
> >
> > "Larry Pardue" > wrote in message
>...
> >
> >>I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score Shack
> >>window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.
>

[f.blair]

The postings that Charlie makes to the SSA site are a 'paid' entry, it is
not part of a 'volunteers' efforts. When he is not at the contest, then the
effort is not made to add comments to the site. The RAS postings were great
to read even if they do not appear on the SSA site.

Fred Blair
"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message
...
> That assumes the scorer reads RAS. Like cucurachas, there may be 100
> lurking for each seen, but RAS doesn't reach more than an interested
segment
> within the SSA, perhaps 10% tops, even with relays. I can't identify any
> activity by Bill Ruehle, Region 9 scorer and CD, in RAS, ever. He may
know
> nothing of RAS. The SSA newgroups may be more accessible though. There
> could be some word wrap issues though, depending on format selected. He
has
> made at least two of his gliders available to Dick Johnson for testing
> though, so he's definitely a soaring contributor.
>
> I don't seen any postings by the contest managers either. I thought they
> posted here up to a few years ago, but I can't find anything, so maybe it
> was something else entirely.
>
> I think the scorer probably e-mailed the results to the SSA office and
that
> we'll seem them Monday AM. This was probably the accepted procedure and
> then he headed a few hundred miles home like everyone else.
>
> FWIW, I've introduced nearly 1000 clients to the USENET as a resource for
> their business, hobby, or special interest. If 5% actually use it, I'd be
> amazed.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
> "Neal Pfeiffer" > wrote in message
> m...
> > While there may be problems to remote post into the existing website
> > structure, Tom Kelly was very effective in getting much of the word out
> > through this forum. We all anticpate improvements to the site that will
> > make thorough reports readily available. In the meantime, would it be
> > possible for the contest scorer to cut and paste the results into a
> > message on this forum? There could even be a simple note added to the
> > SSA site to look here for the latest until the new full-featured site is
> > up and running.
> >
> > Wichita Soaring Team follower
> > & vintage glider pilot
> >
> > Tom Serkowski wrote:
> > > SSA members,
> > > We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
> > > few
> > > minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
> > > manner.
> > >
> > > -Tom Serkowski
> > > ASH-26E (5Z)
> > >
> > > "Larry Pardue" > wrote in message
> >...
> > >
> > >>I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score Shack
> > >>window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.
> >
>
>

[F.L. Whiteley]

true, but nothing to do with the scores being posted either AFAIK.
apparently, getting the scores on the web site happens due to the 'paid'
efforts on staff at the SSA office. given the SSA financials, no 'overtime'
is likely authorized.

Frank

"f.blair" > wrote in message
news:JofIc.35077$WX.195@attbi_s51...
> The postings that Charlie makes to the SSA site are a 'paid' entry, it is
> not part of a 'volunteers' efforts. When he is not at the contest, then
the
> effort is not made to add comments to the site. The RAS postings were
great
> to read even if they do not appear on the SSA site.
>
> Fred Blair
> "F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message
> ...
> > That assumes the scorer reads RAS. Like cucurachas, there may be 100
> > lurking for each seen, but RAS doesn't reach more than an interested
> segment
> > within the SSA, perhaps 10% tops, even with relays. I can't identify
any
> > activity by Bill Ruehle, Region 9 scorer and CD, in RAS, ever. He may
> know
> > nothing of RAS. The SSA newgroups may be more accessible though. There
> > could be some word wrap issues though, depending on format selected. He
> has
> > made at least two of his gliders available to Dick Johnson for testing
> > though, so he's definitely a soaring contributor.
> >
> > I don't seen any postings by the contest managers either. I thought
they
> > posted here up to a few years ago, but I can't find anything, so maybe
it
> > was something else entirely.
> >
> > I think the scorer probably e-mailed the results to the SSA office and
> that
> > we'll seem them Monday AM. This was probably the accepted procedure and
> > then he headed a few hundred miles home like everyone else.
> >
> > FWIW, I've introduced nearly 1000 clients to the USENET as a resource
for
> > their business, hobby, or special interest. If 5% actually use it, I'd
be
> > amazed.
> >
> > Frank Whiteley
> >
> > "Neal Pfeiffer" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > While there may be problems to remote post into the existing website
> > > structure, Tom Kelly was very effective in getting much of the word
out
> > > through this forum. We all anticpate improvements to the site that
will
> > > make thorough reports readily available. In the meantime, would it be
> > > possible for the contest scorer to cut and paste the results into a
> > > message on this forum? There could even be a simple note added to the
> > > SSA site to look here for the latest until the new full-featured site
is
> > > up and running.
> > >
> > > Wichita Soaring Team follower
> > > & vintage glider pilot
> > >
> > > Tom Serkowski wrote:
> > > > SSA members,
> > > > We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
> > > > few
> > > > minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
> > > > manner.
> > > >
> > > > -Tom Serkowski
> > > > ASH-26E (5Z)
> > > >
> > > > "Larry Pardue" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > >
> > > >>I was curious so went to Hobbs and copied scores from the Score
Shack
> > > >>window. I probably made mistakes, sorry.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Kilo Charlie]

Good points Frank and I agree with the 80/20 effort issue. It is clear that
things are not working as they currently stand and what we need is at least
a temporary fix. We have a guy locally that is a true master with Winscore
and posting scores and I'm certain that he would be a good resource to get
that done. I'm not sure that he is familiar with html but he has been able
to fix everything we have needed locally here in Arizona. I also realize
that giving just anyone access to a site is a bad idea.

Even though everyone does not read ras most of the racing pilots are
familiar with it and my bet is that they would be happy if the scores would
be posted here in a timely manner. Thanks to the folks that have made the
effort to post what they can here for this season. Maybe it will be the
only viable option for the remainder of this season.

Casey
KC

[BGMIFF]

Direct access to the SSA server is now inactive. I think we can all tell
that! Instead of redesigning the SSA web page in the off season (Nov thru
March) it was SSA's bright idea to do it right in the middle of the contest
season. ANOTHER not to bright decision!

"ZASoars" > wrote in message
...
> I agree with you completely this has been a very frustrating contest
season
> when it comes to following contest scores (and comments) . Even now no
final
> results are posted for Hobbs or Region 8.
> I plan to write our SSA Region in preferance to "Hobbs" as I believe
several
> Directors will provide us with the bestbchance of improving the situation.

[Ted Wagner]

For a (pre)view of what we ought have, tune in to the 2004 USPA (Skydiving)
Nationals from Perris, CA this October. Detailed scores and updated
standings are posted in real time to at least one web page (usually
www.omniskore.com). Kith and kin far, far away often know their beloved's
scores before the competitors do.

It is a killer system, though my opinion is somewhat biased. I would be
happy to contribute a similar capability to the soaring community if there
is enough interest and I get the support and cooperation from The Right
People (tm).

Ted Wagner
H304CZ "2NO"

> SSA members,
> We all need to lobby for the SSA and contest organizers to take the
> few
> minutes each day to make the scores available online in a timely
> manner.

[Pete Reinhart]

"Larry Pardue" > wrote in message
...
..
> Larry Pardue 2I
>
> All,
If the SSA can't or is unwilling , maybe the scores could be posted on Al's
website by an interested competitor by taking a digital camera photo of the
score sheet and sending as a jpg. Or some other means.
Al says "He don't need no stinkin' badges" but he is providing a valuable
service to the soaring community out of largesse and good will.
I'll bet he'd be willing to help if egos didn't prevent someone asking for
it.
Cheers!

[F.L. Whiteley]

day 6 posted

[Tom Serkowski]

"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message >...
> day 6 posted

I got a note from Rhonda Copeland, SSA member services, about my gripe
regarding scores, etc on the SSA website. Yes, she comes in on her
own time to make weekend updates of info IF SHE GETS IT FROM THE
ORGANIZERS. Unfortunately, she couldn't come in this last weekend.
Thanks, Rhonda for doing this.

Now, maybe a few competitors with good email connections and the time
to write a few paragraphs, could send the report to Rhonda (see SSA
website for email address), then those of us stuck at work or
elsewhere could stay up to date?

We should also all ask the SSA to make it a mandatory (within reason)
duty to post not only daily unofficial scores, but also official
scores and brief writeups within a timely manner. A contestant could
volunteer to do this if the organizers are overwhelmed with other
duties.

At Hobbs, for example, we had Tom Kelly posting to RAS, Ted Wagner
posting to the ASA website and Dave Leonard posting to a Black Forest
SOaring Society mailing list. If these writeups could also make it to
the SSA website, then we'd all be better informed by our society (I'm
talking about US SSA members).

Tom Serkowski
ASH-26E (5Z)

[Andy Durbin]

(Tom Serkowski) wrote in message
>
> We should also all ask the SSA to make it a mandatory (within reason)
> duty to post not only daily unofficial scores, but also official
> scores and brief writeups within a timely manner. A contestant could
> volunteer to do this if the organizers are overwhelmed with other
> duties.


Isn't posting of results to SSA an established condition for using
Winscore? I see no reason to place a burden of writing daily reports
on contest organizers. I enjoy Charlie's reports but he writes them
because he wants to, not because he is required to.


Andy

[f.blair]

I thought turning the scores to SSA was a condition of having a 'sanctioned'
contest.


> on contest organizers. I enjoy Charlie's reports but he writes them
> because he wants to, not because he is required to.


No, he writes them because he is paid to write them.

[Tom Serkowski]

(Andy Durbin) wrote in message >...
> Isn't posting of results to SSA an established condition for using
> Winscore? I see no reason to place a burden of writing daily reports
> on contest organizers. I enjoy Charlie's reports but he writes them
> because he wants to, not because he is required to.
>
>
> Andy

Well, based on this year's results it ain't happening all the time.
We get a dribble of preliminary scores and then nothing. Look at the
last day at Hobbs. The prelim sheets are just enough to be able to
announce the top finishers in each class. I've scored a couple of
nationals, so I know from experience it's a thankless task that only
gets appreciated if the scores are out quickly and correctly :)

Used to be we could also get all the logs and do personal maggot
races. Most recent that I see on the winscore website are the 2003
seniors and 2002 Tonopah nationals. We had a really crummy phone
connection at TPH, so I snail mailed a CD to Guy after the last day -
but we did get the data online.

As for the reports, I'm not asking for that much detail. Just a brief
weather and day synopsis that might shed some light on why the day was
devalued to 50 points, or whatever else may provide some context for
the scores. And, as I said, it would aso be nice if anyone wishing to
post a daily narrative had a single place to put it. That's what we
did for the Return To Kitty Hawk last year and from the feedback, it
was most appreciated.

Also, as more pilots learn how easy it is to make an OLC claim from
SeeYou or StrePla, we can get some traces that way too.

-Tom

[Kilo Charlie]

I agree re the daily postings. Apparently the final scores at the Hobbs
Region 9 are not posted due to some protests of the scoring. My
understanding is that the SSA has the results but is waiting a final
decision on the outcome of the protests in order to post them.

Casey Lenox
KC
Phoenix

[Andy Blackburn]

Is it true that MM and 71 are protesting to resolve
the tie?

At 00:42 14 July 2004, Kilo Charlie wrote:
>I agree re the daily postings. Apparently the final
>scores at the Hobbs
>Region 9 are not posted due to some protests of the
>scoring. My
>understanding is that the SSA has the results but is
>waiting a final
>decision on the outcome of the protests in order to
>post them.
>
>Casey Lenox
>KC
>Phoenix
>
>
>