Advice on H301 Libelle 17m

[ruediger]

As my Astir CS77 is totally damaged (The pilot, a friend of mine is
ok, but the glider can't be repaired) i am looking for a "new" glider.
I have the chance to buy a Libelle H301 17m. As I know that several
H301 are flown in the US, i hope to get some advice from ras.
For those who wonder: I can't ask these questions to the former owner,
because the glider is sold by a dealer.
I have no interest in competition, but i am looking for a glider which
is easy to fly (not like the ASTIR). Is the H301 the same pleasure to
fly as the H201 and H205, or a ASW19?
Who can give advice on take-off and landing (I am going to read the
manual but some times there are extra tricks).
My eyperince is about 400h mostly with ASTIR CS, Club-Libelle 205,
ASW19, TWIN I, K21.
Thanks
Ruediger
(from Germany)

[JJ Sinclair]

H-301 in a nutshell. Great glider in its time, but she's going on 40, now.
Great in the climb, but gives it up at 80 knots because the lower wing goes
turbulent at that speed. Schuemann modification fixed that, but is/was
expensive. Look for signs of water penetration into the balsawood core, bad
news. Construction is about 30% lighter than modern sailplanes, just shake the
tail to verify this observation. Landing gear / wheel / axle won't take too
much abuse, as in going sidewise. Boom doesn't like to ground-loop much either
and will snap if tried above 35 knots. Good ship in its day. Lots of fun even
now, good handicap in the un-modified version, Schueman modification will cost
you 5 points and isn't worth it without water, which isn't allowed in sports
class. Came with a tail chute which never was needed and didn't work most of
the time, anyway. Has flaps (+ or - 15 degrees) and dive brakes that are about
half as effective as the spoilers on the H-201. Ventilation is provided by
opening canopy ----- Yikes, never had the guts to try that. Most have been
modified to bring in vent-air through the nose along with Pitot. Came with
Pitot on stab and no total energy back there. Forward statics aren't the best,
so aft statics should be added, as per Schuemann modifaciation instructions.
Didn't come with a sliding window, either. Add one of those. Had automatic
control hook-ups, except for ailerons. Has side trim which is a nuisance , the
201 trim is much nicer. Tow release is on a handle that rubs a spot on the
inside of your left leg, 201 release is much better. She was a hummer in her
day. My highly modified 301 would stay with the 20's. Carrying 25 gallons (only
about 200 pounds over GW) I could out-climb them, but they would out-run me (40
gallons of agwa - only about 200 pounds over G/W) However I would catch them
in the next thermal and out-climb them again. Did that for 400 miles, one day
in the '72 nationals at Minden. Those were the days, Iron men in wooden ships.

:>)
JJ Sinclair

[One9er]

great report JJ. Those were the good old days. '72, is that El mirage,
Minden, ?

Mitch Herold

[Robertmudd1u]

17 meter span H 301 Libelle??

Anyone know how many of these were made? I have never heard of a 17meter
version.

Was it a whole new wing? Or were removable tips installed?

Robert Mudd

[JJ Sinclair]

>
>great report JJ. Those were the good old days. '72, is that El mirage,
>Minden, ?

Must have been having a senior moment, make that '82 at Minden or about that
time period. I do remember the SSA's "Spring Surprise" of 1984 when the 15
meter Nats were held at Ephrata. About March '84 we were told that the
Manufacturers Certificated Gross Weight (in the country of origin) would not be
exceeded. Very bad news for me and my Libelle. After modifications and with old
JJ stuffed in that tiny cockpit, It weighed 680 lbs.without any water. The GW
of the H-301 was 660.

JJ went shopping for a used 20 right before the Ephrata contest. That was a
memebrable contest, the tasking was exactly the same as a very successful
nationals they had run about 10 years earlier. Only problem was the weather
wasn't the same. Lots of over-calls and that led to our "Competition
Committee", with 2 competitors on it to advise the CD on not sending us out
into all that black stuff, west of Ephrata and perhaps the CD should consider
sending us over towards those puffy little clouds to the east.

That contest also had 4 mid-airs which led to a firm rule not to allow more
than 65 entrnts.
Those were the days, have many fond memories of my 301. Turned out I should
have stripped down the Libelle and taken it to Ephrata, because the weather was
so lousy that we ended up flying dry on most days, anyway due to the weak
conditions. She would have done well because climbing was her strong point.
JJ Sinclair

[Pete Reinhart]

"JJ Sinclair" > wrote in message
...
> H-301 in a nutshell. Great glider in its time, but she's going on 40, now.
... Those were the days, Iron men in wooden ships.
>
> :>)
> JJ Sinclair
As my sailboat racing lawyer friend says : "let us return once again to the
days when men were iron, ships were wood, and women were property".
When I tried that at my place, my wife reminded me who was paying for the
glider.
Cheers!

[goneill]

Here is a non PC version of the word wife : W ashing ,I roning,F ood ,E
ntertainment
this has been doing the rounds lately
BUT
> When I tried that at my place, my wife reminded me who was paying for the
> glider.
I think that hits the spot that hurts more.
gary

"Pete Reinhart" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JJ Sinclair" > wrote in message
> ...
> > H-301 in a nutshell. Great glider in its time, but she's going on 40,
now.
> .. Those were the days, Iron men in wooden ships.
> >
> > :>)
> > JJ Sinclair
> As my sailboat racing lawyer friend says : "let us return once again to
the
> days when men were iron, ships were wood, and women were property".
> When I tried that at my place, my wife reminded me who was paying for the
> glider.
> Cheers!
>
>

[Kevin Christner]

(Robertmudd1u) wrote in message >...
> 17 meter span H 301 Libelle??
>
> Anyone know how many of these were made? I have never heard of a 17meter
> version.
>
> Was it a whole new wing? Or were removable tips installed?
>
> Robert Mudd

I think he has either confused the wingspan or is actually talking
about a Glasflugel 401 Kestrel.

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Kevin Christner" > wrote in message
m...
> (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message
>...
> > 17 meter span H 301 Libelle??
> >
> > Anyone know how many of these were made? I have never heard of a 17meter
> > version.
> >
> > Was it a whole new wing? Or were removable tips installed?
> >
> > Robert Mudd
>
> I think he has either confused the wingspan or is actually talking
> about a Glasflugel 401 Kestrel.

There is most certainly a handicap listing for Libelle 17m on many Euro
sites under club class

ASW 19; DG 100; LS1f; Hornet; Std. Jantar, Std. Astir; SZD 59; Phöbus B3;
Cirrus; Std. Cirrus 16m; Phöbus C1; D 37; SB 7; Elfe 17m, Std. Libelle 17m
are given 100

Googling and translating a bit, it appears the 17m Libelle appeared in 1965,
so likely a 301.

Frank Whiteley

[Tim Mara]

the 301 was never produced as a 17 meter version....some might have been modified, though I know of none that were
the Kestrel was 17 meter and I suspect that is what they were referring to..... there was also (one) 304 produced with extended span called the Glasflügel 402 but it was later converted to the "Falcon" by Hansjorg Streifeneder
tim
www.wingsandwheels.com

"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Kevin Christner" > wrote in message
> m...
> > (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message
> >...
> > > 17 meter span H 301 Libelle??
> > >
> > > Anyone know how many of these were made? I have never heard of a 17meter
> > > version.
> > >
> > > Was it a whole new wing? Or were removable tips installed?
> > >
> > > Robert Mudd
> >
> > I think he has either confused the wingspan or is actually talking
> > about a Glasflugel 401 Kestrel.
>
> There is most certainly a handicap listing for Libelle 17m on many Euro
> sites under club class
>
> ASW 19; DG 100; LS1f; Hornet; Std. Jantar, Std. Astir; SZD 59; Phöbus B3;
> Cirrus; Std. Cirrus 16m; Phöbus C1; D 37; SB 7; Elfe 17m, Std. Libelle 17m
> are given 100
>
> Googling and translating a bit, it appears the 17m Libelle appeared in 1965,
> so likely a 301.
>
> Frank Whiteley
>
>

[Kizuno]

If you Google on "17m Libelle" this came up 7 years ago when I asked about
this. Stephen Crabb of SA kindly replied that he believed there is a 17m
Libelle in South Africa.

Kemp
Always a Glasflugel guy (but I'm getting to like Schleichers......)

[ruediger]

I am sorry i made a mistake, but even so thanks for the answers.

Yesterday I had the chance to have a look at the glider and it showed
that the guy from the repairshop and me and misunderstood each other.
He had talked about a flaped 17m Libelle, an´d I was talking about the
H301 and neither him nor me noticed that we were talking about a H201
Standard Libelle with 17m Span and "Spreizklappen" (both modifikation
from LTB Follmann) which are just an additional help for very short
landings.

I am going to take that glider home on monday, hoping to have some
nice flights in the rest of the season.

Any advice / pictures where to place an Ipaq in the Libelle.

Thanks a lot
Ruediger

(ruediger) wrote in message >...
> As my Astir CS77 is totally damaged (The pilot, a friend of mine is
> ok, but the glider can't be repaired) i am looking for a "new" glider.
> I have the chance to buy a Libelle H301 17m. As I know that several
> H301 are flown in the US, i hope to get some advice from ras.
> For those who wonder: I can't ask these questions to the former owner,
> because the glider is sold by a dealer.
> I have no interest in competition, but i am looking for a glider which
> is easy to fly (not like the ASTIR). Is the H301 the same pleasure to
> fly as the H201 and H205, or a ASW19?
> Who can give advice on take-off and landing (I am going to read the
> manual but some times there are extra tricks).
> My eyperince is about 400h mostly with ASTIR CS, Club-Libelle 205,
> ASW19, TWIN I, K21.
> Thanks
> Ruediger
> (from Germany)

[F.L. Whiteley]

Hey, how about some pictures of this 17m Libelle and mods once you have it
rigged?

Frank

"ruediger" > wrote in message
m...
> I am sorry i made a mistake, but even so thanks for the answers.
>
> Yesterday I had the chance to have a look at the glider and it showed
> that the guy from the repairshop and me and misunderstood each other.
> He had talked about a flaped 17m Libelle, an´d I was talking about the
> H301 and neither him nor me noticed that we were talking about a H201
> Standard Libelle with 17m Span and "Spreizklappen" (both modifikation
> from LTB Follmann) which are just an additional help for very short
> landings.
>
> I am going to take that glider home on monday, hoping to have some
> nice flights in the rest of the season.
>
> Any advice / pictures where to place an Ipaq in the Libelle.
>
> Thanks a lot
> Ruediger
>
> (ruediger) wrote in message
>...
> > As my Astir CS77 is totally damaged (The pilot, a friend of mine is
> > ok, but the glider can't be repaired) i am looking for a "new" glider.
> > I have the chance to buy a Libelle H301 17m. As I know that several
> > H301 are flown in the US, i hope to get some advice from ras.
> > For those who wonder: I can't ask these questions to the former owner,
> > because the glider is sold by a dealer.
> > I have no interest in competition, but i am looking for a glider which
> > is easy to fly (not like the ASTIR). Is the H301 the same pleasure to
> > fly as the H201 and H205, or a ASW19?
> > Who can give advice on take-off and landing (I am going to read the
> > manual but some times there are extra tricks).
> > My eyperince is about 400h mostly with ASTIR CS, Club-Libelle 205,
> > ASW19, TWIN I, K21.
> > Thanks
> > Ruediger
> > (from Germany)

[ruediger]

Hi Frank,
you want me to sent them to your email adress?
If you cant wait, have a look at
http://home.pages.at/gliderpilot/gliding/libelle/tuning.htm
there are nice pictures of the 17m Libelle and the "Spreizklappen".

Rüdiger

"F.L. Whiteley" > wrote in message >...
> Hey, how about some pictures of this 17m Libelle and mods once you have it
> rigged?
>
> Frank
>
> "ruediger" > wrote in message
> m...
> > I am sorry i made a mistake, but even so thanks for the answers.
> >
> > Yesterday I had the chance to have a look at the glider and it showed
> > that the guy from the repairshop and me and misunderstood each other.
> > He had talked about a flaped 17m Libelle, an´d I was talking about the
> > H301 and neither him nor me noticed that we were talking about a H201
> > Standard Libelle with 17m Span and "Spreizklappen" (both modifikation
> > from LTB Follmann) which are just an additional help for very short
> > landings.
> >
> > I am going to take that glider home on monday, hoping to have some
> > nice flights in the rest of the season.
> >
> > Any advice / pictures where to place an Ipaq in the Libelle.
> >
> > Thanks a lot
> > Ruediger
> >
> > (ruediger) wrote in message
> >...
> > > As my Astir CS77 is totally damaged (The pilot, a friend of mine is
> > > ok, but the glider can't be repaired) i am looking for a "new" glider.
> > > I have the chance to buy a Libelle H301 17m. As I know that several
> > > H301 are flown in the US, i hope to get some advice from ras.
> > > For those who wonder: I can't ask these questions to the former owner,
> > > because the glider is sold by a dealer.
> > > I have no interest in competition, but i am looking for a glider which
> > > is easy to fly (not like the ASTIR). Is the H301 the same pleasure to
> > > fly as the H201 and H205, or a ASW19?
> > > Who can give advice on take-off and landing (I am going to read the
> > > manual but some times there are extra tricks).
> > > My eyperince is about 400h mostly with ASTIR CS, Club-Libelle 205,
> > > ASW19, TWIN I, K21.
> > > Thanks
> > > Ruediger
> > > (from Germany)

[Wallace Berry]

In article >,
(ruediger) wrote:

> http://home.pages.at/gliderpilot/gliding/libelle/tuning.htm

Hey, didja see the picture of the Libelle with a hinged canopy? Looks
like it is hinged but retains the great feature allowing the front of
the canopy to be opened in flight for ventilation. The picture is small
and low res but I think I can mostly make out how they did it. If anyone
knows any more about this "klapphaube" for the Libelle, let me know.

--
Take out the airplane for reply