Ventus 2 compared to Discus besides the obvious

[[email protected]]

I know the Ventus 2 is flapped and Discus is not. I am talking about ease of handling that the Discus is known for. Is the Ventus 2 with its wing design change similar to the Discus or more like its predecessor to fly. The Ventus A/B do not receive the greatest reviews for pleasure flying. What do you who have flown them think.

Dino

[[email protected]]

I’m having a great time with my Ventus B with winglets. The glider performs very well at speed. I found the “unloved” email that’s circles the internet to be completely bogus. You can land it in a short flield and has powerful air/flap braking system. I have only flow a duel discuss which I like as well but very different glider then a discus. Flaps are great if you are wanting to do a lot of XC flying.

DC

[ND]

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 11:19:16 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> I know the Ventus 2 is flapped and Discus is not. I am talking about ease of handling that the Discus is known for. Is the Ventus 2 with its wing design change similar to the Discus or more like its predecessor to fly. The Ventus A/B do not receive the greatest reviews for pleasure flying. What do you who have flown them think.
>
> Dino

ventus 2 flies, handles, and lands beautifully. i had the pleasure of borrowing one for a month, including a regional and really loved it! fastest roll rate i ever had flying gliders

i've not flown a ventus B but from what i understand the handling and control feel just aren't nearly as nice. but they're fine gliders.

[Tim Taylor]

The Ventus 2a/b is one of the best handling gliders ever made. I have about 800 hours in mine. It is similar to the D2, but with all the advantages of flaps. I owned a Ventus b before my V2 and the V2 handles much better and has a better feel for the air. The wing is a little softer than the earlier Ventus and gives a nicer ride. In weak conditions nothing compares to the V2. In the US the Ventus 2 is underrated for some reason. It will run with the 27/29-15 and out climb them. At current prices they are bargains in the US. The Vx models are slightly better, but an a/b with the MM2 winglets is as good or better than an x.

[Jeff Morgan]

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 8:19:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> I know the Ventus 2 is flapped and Discus is not. I am talking about ease of handling that the Discus is known for. Is the Ventus 2 with its wing design change similar to the Discus or more like its predecessor to fly. The Ventus A/B do not receive the greatest reviews for pleasure flying. What do you who have flown them think.
>
> Dino

I was going through the same decision process a few months back when I was looking for a ship. I did not have my heart set on any particular model, my criteria was late model (competitive) ship, with flaps strongly preferred. And I wanted nice handling. If the hottest ship I could afford was like spending all day balancing on a razor blade, I would "trade down" to a more stable model.

After looking at a few ships (Standard class and 15 Meter), I started looking into the Ventus 2. What made me consider them was George Moffat's comments in his book Winning 2.

Early in the book Moffat comments generally on the improvements in each generation of ships, then on the V2 specifically on page 232. He said: "The V2, perhaps the nicest handling glider I have ever flown (of 88 types), won its first World Championship in 1995 and has won all but one of the contests since then."

Later he gives a chronological listing of each type he has flown, with the V2 being flown *after* the Discus. You can read whatever you want into that..

Moffat's comments did not lock me into that model, but it sure gave me a green light to consider the V2. Incidentally, I ended up buying ... a V2.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

I used to own a V2, pleasure to assemble, great climber, while never flown a D2 I have owned several ASW-24's (similar to Discus). If you are new to soaring and xc flying it is hard to beat a good standard class glider for a first glider! The Discus is easier and more simple to fly than the V2 and I believe a much better ship for new xc pilots. Being an easier ship to learn and fly well, you will learn faster and get your confidence faster.

On Monday, April 2, 2018 at 8:19:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> I know the Ventus 2 is flapped and Discus is not. I am talking about ease of handling that the Discus is known for. Is the Ventus 2 with its wing design change similar to the Discus or more like its predecessor to fly. The Ventus A/B do not receive the greatest reviews for pleasure flying. What do you who have flown them think.
>
> Dino

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the replies. I am a newer pilot who has done most all my training in glass, all glass in the last 40 or so hours. I also have 110 hours power as well. I have access to Junior 51's, LS4's at the club I belong to. We also have a Duo and ASK21's. I want a ship I will not have to trade up for some time which either ship will provide. I am not locked on a V2 or D2 but for bang for buck the V2 seems to be the deal. After my first dual cross country I was hooked and flying the local 50km circuits several times per flight has enhanced that desire for cross country. I have talked with one of our instructors who also does examination flights who said I could transition from a LS4 into the V2. I just don't want to fly the "balanced on a razor blade" flying. Thanks again.

Dino

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 1:59:34 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Thanks for the replies. I am a newer pilot who has done most all my training in glass, all glass in the last 40 or so hours. I also have 110 hours power as well. I have access to Junior 51's, LS4's at the club I belong to. We also have a Duo and ASK21's. I want a ship I will not have to trade up for some time which either ship will provide. I am not locked on a V2 or D2 but for bang for buck the V2 seems to be the deal. After my first dual cross country I was hooked and flying the local 50km circuits several times per flight has enhanced that desire for cross country. I have talked with one of our instructors who also does examination flights who said I could transition from a LS4 into the V2. I just don't want to fly the "balanced on a razor blade" flying. Thanks again.
>
> Dino

Either one. More important is the quality of the ship being offered for sale and a trailer that encourages assembly/disassembly, such as a cobra. Most people under-appreciate the value of a good trailer when it comes to the day of flying and the ease or torture that comes with a good/bad trailer. Personally, I'd go for the V2. Disregard talk about complexity of flaps. They are a non issue. Go for a good total package.

[Al McNamara[_4_]]

At 03:19 03 April 2018, wrote:
>I know the Ventus 2 is flapped and Discus is not. I am talking about
ease
>=
>of handling that the Discus is known for. Is the Ventus 2 with its wing
>de=
>sign change similar to the Discus or more like its predecessor to fly.
>The=
> Ventus A/B do not receive the greatest reviews for pleasure flying.
What
>=
>do you who have flown them think. =20
>
>Dino
>
The V2 is a fantastic handling glider which has none of the vices of it's
predecessors. The Discus remains a fantastic, easy to fly standard class
glider, but is significantly out performed by the V2. The Discus 2 is an
equally nice handling standard class glider, arguably best in class in the
right hands, but is more difficult to get the best out of.

For both, do your homework on different types. The V2 is really 2 very
different (but equally nice) gliders. The A and B are pure 15m gliders
with the A being lighter and having a much narrower fuse. The pure 'A' is
very light and exceptional in weak conditions. The AX (slightly later
model with some structural modifications) is slightly heavier but still
very competitive in class. The B has a wider fuse and again is heavier.
The V2C is actually a very different glider, with an 18m wing (and optional
15m tips) and again is out there in different variants. The original C has
a 525kg max weight, the CX takes this to 600kg with updated winglets. The
CXA has the CX wing, but a narrower fuselage.

The Discus 2 has similar A (pure 15m, narrow fuse), B (pure 15 wider fuse)
and C (15m/18m wider fuse) variants. The D2A is a no frills, narrow fuse,
standard class racing machine that although nice to fly, needs to be well
flown to make the most of. The D2C is a wide fuse, 18m variant, not really
competitive in class and more optimised for club/touring flying.

For a lower hours pilot, the only real difference is workload/pilot
capacity in the Ventus due to the flaps, particularly near the ground.

I currently fly a V2cxt, previously owned a V2cxa and D2a, have lots of
hours in club owned Discuses and a club owned D2ct and have flown pretty
much every variant of Ventus. The cxa was the nicest of all to fly.

[krasw]

I'm confused. Currently gliders under discussion are Discus, Discus 2, Ventus and Ventus 2 (all with various sub-models). Original poster first questioned differences between Discus (std. class ship made in 80's) and Ventus 2 (15m class from nineties. In next post he talks about Discus 2 (std. class ship made in 2000's). So exactly what two gliders are we comparing?

[[email protected]]

Sorry I threw the D2 in there, my error. Also I should have specified, Ventus 2b. As I am only 5' 9" in height the V2a would be ok but with a wide chest it would be tight, V2b more suitable.
I am leaning toward buying a V2b.

Many of the reports of the V1, if I may use that identifier, report the flight characteristics not flap use are what makes it tiresome to fly. The V2 as I have read does not have that same tiresome flight characteristic. Aside from flap workload is ease of handling similar between the Discus and a V2b.
I hope I am posing my query in a suitable manner to achieve resolve to my deficit of knowledge.
Dino

[[email protected]]

Sorry I threw the D2 in there, my error. Also I should have specified, Ventus 2b. As I am only 5' 9" in height the V2a would be ok but with a wide chest it would be tight, V2b more suitable.
I am leaning toward buying a V2b.
I am asking about the flight characteristics of a Discus as a comparator to that of the V2b outside of flap use. Does the V2b have a&& biting habits.

Dino

[Filip Bojanowski]

Den onsdag den 4. april 2018 kl. 18.38.52 UTC+2 skrev :
> Sorry I threw the D2 in there, my error. Also I should have specified, Ventus 2b. As I am only 5' 9" in height the V2a would be ok but with a wide chest it would be tight, V2b more suitable.
> I am leaning toward buying a V2b.
> I am asking about the flight characteristics of a Discus as a comparator to that of the V2b outside of flap use. Does the V2b have a&& biting habits.
>
> Dino

Having flown both V1/2 and D1/2 I would really recommend the V2 if price permits (if choice is between D1 and V2). V2 is miles better than a D1 performance-wise and in pretty much every other area.

But as with most flapped ships, you need to fly fast when cruising to get the most out of it. Otherwise just get the D2, at best l/d there is practically no difference between D2 and V2.

Talking V2b specifically you should be careful during landing as the airbrake handle is quite close to the flap handle. There is a risk of freeing the flap when adjusting the airbrakes, resulting in flaps going to full negative causing a quite heavy landing.

I would suggest gripping the airbrake with a grip from above. This is only an issue in the V2b or V2c, as the V2a has airbrake in a different position where it is a non-problem.

Flight-wise the V2 flies easily, is easy to launch and land. The V2 ironed out the handling issues with the V1.

If you can get a newer model with an X go for that. The X fuselage is the newer discus2-derived fuselage, has new tail-section, tailplane and winglets.. A lot of "old" v2a owners got their tails replaced at the SH factory to the newer model.

If you have competition aspirations get the V2ax. But if you are looking for the best possible thermal handling for 15m/std a LS6 or LS8 beats any SH glider by a mile. The 2-3% edge that D2/V2 has is not worth it money-wise unless you are in it for competitions (in my opinion).

PS. assembly tip for any SH glider: Pull the airbrake handle and check if there is a hole in the airbrake guiding rod. The assembly pin (used for the tail etc.) should fit nicely there, blocking the airbrake from closing completely so you dont have to fight the over-centering mechanism when putting on the wings.

[Alex[_6_]]

I am reading a lot of comments of the flapped V2 having a significant edge on performance. This may be true in very strong conditions. For average European competition weather conditions I tend to disagree.

In the 2012 qualifying competition at Hockenheim both Standard and 15m classes were tasked the same to compare the performance differences. Comparing the average speed of the podium finishers results in 101km/h for the Standard class and 100km/h for the 15m class. Unfortunately there were only three days with speed finishes, so the numbers are surely not fully representative. Nonetheless, the first impression is that the performance difference can only be marginal. https://www.strepla.de/scs/public/overview.aspx?cID=171

In last years German Nationals in the 15m class, a D2a placed second of 35 participants, narrowly missing the title of German Champion on the last day..
https://www.strepla.de/scs/Public/scoreOverall.aspx?cID=385&className=15m&dateScoring=20170714

From my experience team flying with an ASG29 15m with an LS8 it takes speeds in excess of 170km/h to really start noticing a difference.

In my opinion the best argument for flaps is: it's more fun!

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 11:54:03 AM UTC+1, Alex wrote:
> I am reading a lot of comments of the flapped V2 having a significant edge on performance. This may be true in very strong conditions. For average European competition weather conditions I tend to disagree.
>
> In the 2012 qualifying competition at Hockenheim both Standard and 15m classes were tasked the same to compare the performance differences. Comparing the average speed of the podium finishers results in 101km/h for the Standard class and 100km/h for the 15m class. Unfortunately there were only three days with speed finishes, so the numbers are surely not fully representative. Nonetheless, the first impression is that the performance difference can only be marginal. https://www.strepla.de/scs/public/overview.aspx?cID=171
>
> In last years German Nationals in the 15m class, a D2a placed second of 35 participants, narrowly missing the title of German Champion on the last day.
> https://www.strepla.de/scs/Public/scoreOverall.aspx?cID=385&className=15m&dateScoring=20170714
>
> From my experience team flying with an ASG29 15m with an LS8 it takes speeds in excess of 170km/h to really start noticing a difference.
>
> In my opinion the best argument for flaps is: it's more fun!

The best argument for flaps is that you can fly at about 100lbs heavier than a same class unflapped glider and still climb as well in thermals. Then the the extra wing loading in the cruise gives you some free bonus speed.

[[email protected]]

Jeff Morgan, I found a read your post. It was a good read with great responses.
Congratulations to you on the V2 purchase.
Dino