Spot or InReach ??

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!

Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.

[2G]

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:14:08 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!
>
> Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.

No, you will not have 2.5 min tracking, you will have 10 min tracking. To get the 2.5 min tracking, you have to add the Extreme package for another $100 per year, for a total of $325 per year.

Tom

[joesimmers[_2_]]

Get the Inreach, much more reliable network.

$25 per month for "Reliable" Unlimited 10 minute tracking.

[WaltWX[_2_]]

I'd strongly recommend the Garmin InReach (older larger one is just fine... just sew a pocket on your parachute).

InReach's plans are complicated and difficult to price. There is a monthly plan that gives you... I believe.. either 5 or 10 min updates. But, at least for that, you get the ability to display altitudes to the person tracking you and ... most important... outbound text messaging.

The Enterprise plan often used for aviation is the one I use. Go to Paul Remde's Cumulus site to see how the pricing works. You pay by the number of bytes transmitted. I change my monthly rate from ~$20/month winter around 1500 bytes (you can disable the account for ~$7/month). During flying, contest or X-country season I raise it to 8000 bytes at ~$35/month. You can raise it to the next level higher plan anytime, but pay a $25 one time penalty for lowering it. One of the other benefits of the Enterprise plan is that you can change the sampling interval before takeoff to anything between 1 minute and 10 minutes. As I said it's complicated. During contests or long flight into "tiger country" I set it to 2 minute updates.

I estimate it's costing me $400/year for this service as long as I carefully manage the monthly plans for my flying. Not bad for peace of mind...

Walt Rogers WX

[WaltWX[_2_]]

One more point about the Garmin InReach. Before a long cross country, contest or event, I carefully consider what information for emergency contacts will be recorded on the web site. I change my 1st and 2nd emergency contact, add notes about the type of flight and backup crew. Here's a sample of my InReach tracking page for, I believe, the last four years:

https://share.delorme.com/0b71a31caf67410e89243ad768883515

One can filter to a particular day or time range by using the pull down menu "Filter Map" top left corner of page. Most of the flight are 2 min updates... but sometimes for local flying I set it at 5 minutes.

Walt Rogers WX

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 1:23:23 AM UTC-4, WaltWX wrote:
> One more point about the Garmin InReach. Before a long cross country, contest or event, I carefully consider what information for emergency contacts will be recorded on the web site. I change my 1st and 2nd emergency contact, add notes about the type of flight and backup crew. Here's a sample of my InReach tracking page for, I believe, the last four years:
>
> https://share.delorme.com/0b71a31caf67410e89243ad768883515
>
> One can filter to a particular day or time range by using the pull down menu "Filter Map" top left corner of page. Most of the flight are 2 min updates... but sometimes for local flying I set it at 5 minutes.
>
> Walt Rogers WX

New user question...

Is there some way to sync (some fraction of) my existing cell phone contacts with inReach using Earthmate? It doesn't look like there is.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

[6X]

From InReach Contacts page: Add the people you contact the most. By syncing contacts to an iOS, Android, or inReach SE/Explorer, you'll save time and message space.

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 9:07:09 AM UTC-4, 6X wrote:
> From InReach Contacts page: Add the people you contact the most. By syncing contacts to an iOS, Android, or inReach SE/Explorer, you'll save time and message space.

I can read that too.

I was under the impression that I would be able to import contacts from my cell, which would be a tremendous time saver and reduce the likelihood of errors. The sales blurb seemed to at least hint that this was possible. If it is, I haven't yet figured out how to do this.

Hope that clarifies.

T8

[Jonathan Foster]

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 5:14:08 PM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!
>
> Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.

I have used both extensively. The inReach is more reliable and just plain works. I am so glad I switched.

The backpack tether works brilliantly with my parachute chest strap. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/pn/010-11855-00

Also, the new mini inreach is really neat.

[Tango Eight]

On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:14:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!
>
> Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.

It's hard to make an argument in favor of Spot. I cancelled my subscription moments ago (15 minutes elapsed time, one threat to call my credit card company, full refund issued for an automatic renewal (I never authorized automatic renewal)).

With inReach, if you fly 100 hours during 6 months a year, you can do this: Freedom / Safety plan @ $15 a mo + $25 a year + $0.10 per point, ten minute tracking, $60 for 100 hours of flying, total $175 (plus some miscellaneous fees) per year. You get unlimited use of preset messages (similar to old style Spot except you get confirmation that the message was sent) plus you have two way txt capability, 10 a month, $0.50 per msg beyond that. I'll use Inreach tracking if I am doing something, er, ambitious. Else I'll use cell tracking in areas with known good service and use inReach to send the landed safely, landed out / bring trailer & beer msgs.

I bought the old style Delorme Explorer because it's available at Cabela's for $200. It works fine, it should work fine on my parachute. The mini, announced literal hours after I ordered the DeLorme, *is* really cool, small is beautiful. The upside of the older/larger unit is more battery, maps (maybe handy if I end up in some really remote area), compass and a screen just big enough I can use without glasses (bail out scenario).

I'm not going to miss Spot.

Side note, if you are inclined to stick with Spot, Spot 2 service plan is still about $165 a year. You can have my Spot 2 for beer money (email me if anyone actually wants it).

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:52 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:14:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!
> >
> > Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.
>
> It's hard to make an argument in favor of Spot. I cancelled my subscription moments ago (15 minutes elapsed time, one threat to call my credit card company, full refund issued for an automatic renewal (I never authorized automatic renewal)).
>
> With inReach, if you fly 100 hours during 6 months a year, you can do this: Freedom / Safety plan @ $15 a mo + $25 a year + $0.10 per point, ten minute tracking, $60 for 100 hours of flying, total $175 (plus some miscellaneous fees) per year. You get unlimited use of preset messages (similar to old style Spot except you get confirmation that the message was sent) plus you have two way txt capability, 10 a month, $0.50 per msg beyond that. I'll use Inreach tracking if I am doing something, er, ambitious. Else I'll use cell tracking in areas with known good service and use inReach to send the landed safely, landed out / bring trailer & beer msgs.
>
> I bought the old style Delorme Explorer because it's available at Cabela's for $200. It works fine, it should work fine on my parachute. The mini, announced literal hours after I ordered the DeLorme, *is* really cool, small is beautiful. The upside of the older/larger unit is more battery, maps (maybe handy if I end up in some really remote area), compass and a screen just big enough I can use without glasses (bail out scenario).
>
> I'm not going to miss Spot.
>
> Side note, if you are inclined to stick with Spot, Spot 2 service plan is still about $165 a year. You can have my Spot 2 for beer money (email me if anyone actually wants it).
>
> best,
> Evan Ludeman / T8

Great minds think alike, Evan. I also ordered the Explorer from Cabelas yesterday and tried to cancel my Spot subscription this morning. No luck since the rep could not find one of the "special" agents available who can take cancellations. She promised to call me back, that was 3 hours ago. Not holding my breath.. Now that's 'customer service'.
Herb

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 11:57:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:52 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
> > On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:14:08 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > My Spot renewal has come up, but not charged. Called Spot tried to get some info on their new device. Couldn't even find out if one would need a different data plan to access the two-way features. Tried a google search for information on the next gen two-way spot but could not find anything!
> > >
> > > Question: if one was to purchase a new tracker which one would you choose and why? I am temped to renew my Spot and run with the Gen3 until the new two-way is released. I like that it (new Spot) has it's own keyboard and screen, but the features are not known. My other option would be to get the InReach mini. However, the InReach plans are set for 10 minute tracking intervals unless you pay $79.95 per month on an annual plan. With the spot plan for $214.95 a year I have 2 minute interval tracking.
> >
> > It's hard to make an argument in favor of Spot. I cancelled my subscription moments ago (15 minutes elapsed time, one threat to call my credit card company, full refund issued for an automatic renewal (I never authorized automatic renewal)).
> >
> > With inReach, if you fly 100 hours during 6 months a year, you can do this: Freedom / Safety plan @ $15 a mo + $25 a year + $0.10 per point, ten minute tracking, $60 for 100 hours of flying, total $175 (plus some miscellaneous fees) per year. You get unlimited use of preset messages (similar to old style Spot except you get confirmation that the message was sent) plus you have two way txt capability, 10 a month, $0.50 per msg beyond that. I'll use Inreach tracking if I am doing something, er, ambitious. Else I'll use cell tracking in areas with known good service and use inReach to send the landed safely, landed out / bring trailer & beer msgs.
> >
> > I bought the old style Delorme Explorer because it's available at Cabela's for $200. It works fine, it should work fine on my parachute. The mini, announced literal hours after I ordered the DeLorme, *is* really cool, small is beautiful. The upside of the older/larger unit is more battery, maps (maybe handy if I end up in some really remote area), compass and a screen just big enough I can use without glasses (bail out scenario).
> >
> > I'm not going to miss Spot.
> >
> > Side note, if you are inclined to stick with Spot, Spot 2 service plan is still about $165 a year. You can have my Spot 2 for beer money (email me if anyone actually wants it).
> >
> > best,
> > Evan Ludeman / T8
>
> Great minds think alike, Evan. I also ordered the Explorer from Cabelas yesterday and tried to cancel my Spot subscription this morning. No luck since the rep could not find one of the "special" agents available who can take cancellations. She promised to call me back, that was 3 hours ago. Not holding my breath.. Now that's 'customer service'.
> Herb

The special agent in charge evidently needed a coffee break/safe space/PTSD counselling after dealing with T8. Sorry about that.

:-)

Correction to above... it looks like I was wrong about map functions on the DeLorme Explorer... there's a "map", but it's just ground track and waypoints on white background... I thought being able to load this thing with topo maps was the whole point of the Explorer vs SE. Hmmmm. Maybe I've confused that with the updated Garmin Explorer+. Anyone know different... please chime in.

-Evan

[kirk.stant]

Just to be different - I stick with Spot.

My Gen 1 Spot is reliable, easy to use, less expensive than Inreach (for the same 10 min tracking).

What it doesn't have (altitude, messaging) I don't care about.

That being said, if I was starting from scratch, the Inreach sounds like a better deal.

Kirk
66

[John Carlyle]

Evan, thanks for posting your thoughts. I joined you and Herb in buying an inReach Explorer from Cabellas. The inReach plan and usage approach you outlined sounds good, as well.

I, too, was disappointed with the performance of Spot. Not only was it flaky in posting my position, their "automatic renewal" was outrageous. My Spot went free to another home. Too bad, Spot was a great idea, but was very poorly implemented.

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 11:32:52 AM UTC-4, Tango Eight wrote:
> It's hard to make an argument in favor of Spot. I cancelled my subscription moments ago (15 minutes elapsed time, one threat to call my credit card company, full refund issued for an automatic renewal (I never authorized automatic renewal)).
>
> With inReach, if you fly 100 hours during 6 months a year, you can do this: Freedom / Safety plan @ $15 a mo + $25 a year + $0.10 per point, ten minute tracking, $60 for 100 hours of flying, total $175 (plus some miscellaneous fees) per year. You get unlimited use of preset messages (similar to old style Spot except you get confirmation that the message was sent) plus you have two way txt capability, 10 a month, $0.50 per msg beyond that. I'll use Inreach tracking if I am doing something, er, ambitious. Else I'll use cell tracking in areas with known good service and use inReach to send the landed safely, landed out / bring trailer & beer msgs.
>
> I bought the old style Delorme Explorer because it's available at Cabela's for $200. It works fine, it should work fine on my parachute. The mini, announced literal hours after I ordered the DeLorme, *is* really cool, small is beautiful. The upside of the older/larger unit is more battery, maps (maybe handy if I end up in some really remote area), compass and a screen just big enough I can use without glasses (bail out scenario).
>
> I'm not going to miss Spot.
>
> Side note, if you are inclined to stick with Spot, Spot 2 service plan is still about $165 a year. You can have my Spot 2 for beer money (email me if anyone actually wants it).
>
> best,
> Evan Ludeman / T8

[kirk.stant]

Interesting how much you guys are willing to pay for altitude and the ability to message. At the 10 minute rate Spot is $175/year (or a bit more, but still less that $200) - a lot less than a full year of InReach tracking. My Gen 1 has been reliable, easy to use, and my wife has no trouble tracking me and finding me when I land out (or make it back to the field). I've loaned it to friends who flew it all over the Caribbean In their RV-6 and it tracked them perfectly. Ditto a friend on a motorcycle trip.

So if you need the messaging features and altitude, definitely go for the InReach, but if you just need a simple tracker, you might try spot and be surprised.

Guess I just got a good one...

Kirk
66

[[email protected]]

Im with Kirk on this one I too have a gen1 spot and I hook it over my parachute strap from inside out so my neck collar keeps it on if I should bail. Its basically just over half the cost of Inreach and I use the OK button to announce to my better half that I have taken off and also when I return. I use the help button if I land out as that also sends a gps location with my pretyped msg of I have landed out safely at the following location please initiate a retrieve. The Batteries last more than 400 flying hours. but I change them yearly (about 250hrs). In over 10 years of using it I can count on one hand how many missed fixes :)

CH ASW27

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, 9 May 2018 09:08:00 UTC+12, kirk.stant wrote:
> Interesting how much you guys are willing to pay for altitude and the ability to message. At the 10 minute rate Spot is $175/year (or a bit more, but still less that $200) - a lot less than a full year of InReach tracking. My Gen 1 has been reliable, easy to use, and my wife has no trouble tracking me and finding me when I land out (or make it back to the field). I've loaned it to friends who flew it all over the Caribbean In their RV-6 and it tracked them perfectly. Ditto a friend on a motorcycle trip.
>
> So if you need the messaging features and altitude, definitely go for the InReach, but if you just need a simple tracker, you might try spot and be surprised.
>
> Guess I just got a good one...
>
> Kirk
> 66


We get altitude with Spot Gen3 downunder.

[Ramy[_2_]]

Kirk, $300 per year instead of $175 is not a lot more expensive. For the price of couple of tows per year you get a much better system. And the ability to text from a landout or to your crew when there is no cel signal is well worth it.
Regarding syncing contacts to inreach, I am not sure why bother. The earthmate app lets you send and receive messages from anyone in your phone contact list. You don’t need to import those contacts.

Ramy

[Darryl Ramm]

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:09:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Wednesday, 9 May 2018 09:08:00 UTC+12, kirk.stant wrote:
> > Interesting how much you guys are willing to pay for altitude and the ability to message. At the 10 minute rate Spot is $175/year (or a bit more, but still less that $200) - a lot less than a full year of InReach tracking. My Gen 1 has been reliable, easy to use, and my wife has no trouble tracking me and finding me when I land out (or make it back to the field). I've loaned it to friends who flew it all over the Caribbean In their RV-6 and it tracked them perfectly. Ditto a friend on a motorcycle trip.
> >
> > So if you need the messaging features and altitude, definitely go for the InReach, but if you just need a simple tracker, you might try spot and be surprised.
> >
> > Guess I just got a good one...
> >
> > Kirk
> > 66
>
>
> We get altitude with Spot Gen3 downunder.

Do you have a link to flight traces showing that?

Spot seemed to test doing this at least in North America before but it was very unreliable, besides that the "altitude data" displayed is just the ground elevation.

[krasw]

Why not install OGN receivers for tracking? Just one good installation at home airfield covers most of your cross country flights. We get 100 km range with one good antenna.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 12:08:02 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
> Why not install OGN receivers for tracking? Just one good installation at home airfield covers most of your cross country flights. We get 100 km range with one good antenna.

Size. Population density. Terrain. Infrastructure. Cost. ... and even then OGN is not the best technology you want if needing SAR help or two way communication to organize a retrieve. I know in Europe you just call folks up on your cell phone...

Folks wanting to track contests or flights near specific locations etc. are playing with this type of stuff, but an inReach tracker is a much more suitable device for many USA XC glider pilots.

[John Carlyle]

Kirk,

I'm willing to pay for devices that work properly. My Spot dropped many points, and I see the same behavior on Spot traces from other pilots. Relying on Spot would seem be be like relying on an OnStar type system that only transmits every 3rd word.

Given that performance, your remark that Spot plans are cheaper than those from InReach is like noting you can get a lower price on oats that have already been through the horse.

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:08:00 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> Interesting how much you guys are willing to pay for altitude and the ability to message. At the 10 minute rate Spot is $175/year (or a bit more, but still less that $200) - a lot less than a full year of InReach tracking. My Gen 1 has been reliable, easy to use, and my wife has no trouble tracking me and finding me when I land out (or make it back to the field). I've loaned it to friends who flew it all over the Caribbean In their RV-6 and it tracked them perfectly. Ditto a friend on a motorcycle trip.
>
> So if you need the messaging features and altitude, definitely go for the InReach, but if you just need a simple tracker, you might try spot and be surprised.
>
> Guess I just got a good one...
>
> Kirk
> 66

[2KA]

By the way, 5 minute tracking is available on Gen 3 Spot at no extra cost. You have to configure your tracker using the web application to turn it on though. Gen 3 Spot now also does altitude on glideport.aero and the SSA site, although not on Spot's own site.

My experience has been that the Gen 3 reliability is better than Gen 1 and much better than Gen 2. Point dropouts are not that common. On the newer Gen 3 units, altitude seems more reliable than on older ones.

So with a newer Gen 3, I'm getting 5 minute tracking and altitude for about $225/year, including all fees. For me, this is worth it because I use it 12 months.

[kirk.stant]

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 11:01:16 AM UTC-5, John Carlyle wrote:
> Kirk,
>
> I'm willing to pay for devices that work properly. My Spot dropped many points, and I see the same behavior on Spot traces from other pilots. Relying on Spot would seem be be like relying on an OnStar type system that only transmits every 3rd word.
>
> Given that performance, your remark that Spot plans are cheaper than those from InReach is like noting you can get a lower price on oats that have already been through the horse.
>
> -John, Q3

I'm curious which Spot you were using. I've been using my Spot Gen 1 since they first came out and it has worked fine for me so far; if there are any delays in displaying points it hasn't bothered my wife or affected any retrieves. So as they say, YMMV - I'm satisfied with the service I get.

And truth in advertising - my Spot renewal came out to be around $195, so not a lot cheaper.

It's nice that we have options.

Kirk

[RR]

Kirk, one reason spot might be working well for you is location. Spot uses geostationary satellites and has better signal in the center of the country. For us on the edges, not so much. My "track record" was about 75% success. Inreach also has delivery confirmation so a much higher success rate, and it is truly global, so works as well on the coast as it does anywhere else. And with the plan T8 described, about the same yearly cost...

Rick

[John Carlyle]

Kirk,

My Spot was a Gen 2. Perhaps that explains the poor performance I got, going by what 2KA said above that in his experience this model isn’t as reliable as the Spot 1 and Spot 3 generations.

I agree - it’s nice that we have options. I like the idea that my new InReach will always provide a contact capability during remote country XC that my cell phone and PLB might not, while clearly your Spot 1 meets your needs. As you said, YMMV...

-John, Q3

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 12:39:38 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
> I'm curious which Spot you were using. I've been using my Spot Gen 1 since they first came out and it has worked fine for me so far; if there are any delays in displaying points it hasn't bothered my wife or affected any retrieves. So as they say, YMMV - I'm satisfied with the service I get.
>
> And truth in advertising - my Spot renewal came out to be around $195, so not a lot cheaper.
>
> It's nice that we have options.
>
> Kirk

[Steve Koerner]

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 10:54:53 AM UTC-7, RR wrote:
> Kirk, one reason spot might be working well for you is location. Spot uses geostationary satellites and has better signal in the center of the country. For us on the edges, not so much. My "track record" was about 75% success. Inreach also has delivery confirmation so a much higher success rate, and it is truly global, so works as well on the coast as it does anywhere else. And with the plan T8 described, about the same yearly cost...
>
> Rick

Wrong, Rick. Spot uses low earth satellites that are whizzing by. Globalstar has upgraded their satellite network (replaced broken ones) in recent years so I'm sure performance now is better than it used to be. The biggest issue people have with Spot performance is its placement. For best result antenna should aim up with a clear view of sky. It's really a statistical thing. For the most part the satellites are going to be in the low sky near the horizon. So it's actually having a clear view of the sky around the horizon that matters most for best performance. Personally, I moved on to InReach years ago as I greatly value the two way messaging that InReach offers.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

New data:

https://www.findmespot.com/spotx/lander.php?utm_source=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=SPOTX_PR

[Ron Gleason]

On Thursday, 10 May 2018 16:12:13 UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> New data:
>
> https://www.findmespot.com/spotx/lander.php?utm_source=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=SPOTX_PR

Looks like a reincarnated Blackberry phone! Looked around web site and could not find exact dimensions.
Ron

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

6.5x 2.9 x 0.9 inches 7 oz Look at REI's web site

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:06:49 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:
> On Thursday, 10 May 2018 16:12:13 UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > New data:
> >
> > https://www.findmespot.com/spotx/lander.php?utm_source=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=SPOTX_PR
>
> Looks like a reincarnated Blackberry phone! Looked around web site and could not find exact dimensions.
> Ron

[Paul Remde]

The new SPOT X looks very, very interesting. The some data plans include unlimited tracking at 2.5 minute intervals and unlimited messeging. I sent them an email asking whether or not the unit sends altitude with the tracking messages.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
___________________________________________

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> 6.5x 2.9 x 0.9 inches 7 oz Look at REI's web site
>
> On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:06:49 PM UTC-7, Ron Gleason wrote:
> > On Thursday, 10 May 2018 16:12:13 UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> > > New data:
> > >
> > > https://www.findmespot.com/spotx/lander.php?utm_source=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=SPOTX_PR
> >
> > Looks like a reincarnated Blackberry phone! Looked around web site and could not find exact dimensions.
> > Ron

[JS[_5_]]

Reliable coverage is a feature of InReach which SPOT will unlikely equal, unless they change satellite systems.
After switching to InReach, I went to a less expensive yet more internationally useful mobile phone carrier, knowing that texts can always be sent and received from the middle of nowhere. Savings were greater than the InReach subscription.
Jim

[Tango Eight]

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 6:12:13 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> New data:
>
> https://www.findmespot.com/spotx/lander.php?utm_source=Press_Release&utm_medium=Link&utm_campaign=SPOTX_PR

Glad to see Spot finally gets it. Competition is good. Interested to see how the real world service holds up.

T8

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 6:31:45 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
> Reliable coverage is a feature of InReach which SPOT will unlikely equal, unless they change satellite systems.
> After switching to InReach, I went to a less expensive yet more internationally useful mobile phone carrier, knowing that texts can always be sent and received from the middle of nowhere. Savings were greater than the InReach subscription.
> Jim

Global star has invested about $1billion in upgrading their satellites to gen 2. Their data rates are faster than Iridium and their coverage has much expanded. A recent Sat Phone review noted that Globalstar phones were less likely to drop calls than Iridium in North America. The reviewer thought it was because Globalstar satellites orbit about twice as high as Iridium, so more coverage per satellite.

With the new Spot X I renewed my plan at $214 for the year, 5 minute tracking, 300 txt per year. What sold me was the 5 minute trace, over the ten minute trace from InReach plans. Also the keyboard looks easy to use without reading glasses.

[Brian[_1_]]

I skipped the Spot 2 version for just that reason, lower battery life and seemed less reliable than the Spot 1.

I did upgrade to a Spot 3 last year. When Placed flat with a clear view of the sky as recommended. I rarely had any issues with it. Flopping around vertically in the pouch on my parachute the tracking is be less reliable but acceptable.

I have research Spot saves and failures. I have only found a couple instances where Spot 911 feature didn't work as well as expected and it wasn't hardware performance that caused the issues. Here are a couple examples.

1. 911 pushed in Mexico after an Auto Accident. There was no clear authority to notify in the area, or if they were notified they didn't do anything about it.

2. 911 Pushed after boat ran into a reef in the ocean. While a single 911 signal was received, the GPS location was not. The Spot failed to send any more data after the single 911 signal, likely because it was in the water. SPOT notified the contacts but could not tell them where the boat was located. Was 12 hours later before someone thought to see if tracking has been enabled and checking it. It was and they actually had the boats location within 10 minutes prior to the accident. There were no survivors.

3. Piper Super Cub crashed on landing, Spot was launched through the windshield into tall grass. Took the pilot over an hour to find it. Once found it worked just fine.

There are many examples where Spot 911 feature worked great. I agree reasonably reliable tracking should be expected, but to expect it the spot needs to mounted/positioned as recommended. Increasing annual fees of the Spot do have me looking at alternatives with more features but I haven't found other options to be very feasible with out significantly more cost due to the amount I use my Spot. But I keep looking for better options.

Brian

[[email protected]]

does anyone know if the nex Spot X has the actual attitude in the tracking points? That was another differentiator with inReach.

Rick

[2G]

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 12:05:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> does anyone know if the nex Spot X has the actual attitude in the tracking points? That was another differentiator with inReach.
>
> Rick

There is no mention whatsoever about altitude in their advertising or the Spot X manual, so I would say no.

Tom

[Steve Koerner]

> There is no mention whatsoever about altitude in their advertising or the Spot X manual, so I would say no.
>
> Tom

Yes, no mention of altitude in the crappy little manual that's currently posted; but there is mention of transmitting elevation if a certain box is checked. Unless there's an onboard database of elevations everywhere, I'm thinking that might actually correspond to transmitting altitude in our use case. We'll have to see. I know Globalstar has been quite thoroughly admonished on the need for altitude reporting for aviation tracking use. It would be awful surprising if they blow that again.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
> > There is no mention whatsoever about altitude in their advertising or the Spot X manual, so I would say no.
> >
> > Tom
>
> Yes, no mention of altitude in the crappy little manual that's currently posted; but there is mention of transmitting elevation if a certain box is checked. Unless there's an onboard database of elevations everywhere, I'm thinking that might actually correspond to transmitting altitude in our use case. We'll have to see. I know Globalstar has been quite thoroughly admonished on the need for altitude reporting for aviation tracking use. It would be awful surprising if they blow that again.

That only seems to apply as a setting for messages, and I took that as a likely settings that are intended to let you control wether coordinate and elevation data is included in your messages, especially since they are also the mechanism where you post to social media.

The device would not need to know elevation data, all it needs to to is set a single bit in those messages that tell the SPOT back-end service to include Google Maps elevation data or not... that's where SPOT today gets tracking elevation data. And they today call 'elevation", hopefully if it was reporting altitude they would not confusingly use "elevation" to also mean "altitude".

Somebody should ping SPOT and ask them, but I'm with Tom here (shock :-)) that if this device included altitude data surely they would promote that at the launch. or even if they were adding it in future they would say so since it's a competitive win for inReach today. it may just be that this is a desire of such a small market they just don't care.

It's intersting/amusing how Spot and Garmin are competing here. Both zig zagging into each other's territory. Gamin went small and just announced the inReach mini I assume in large part to compete with the smaller SPOT Gen 3 trackers for things like the hiking/outdoor market. And Spot then launches the larger Spot X with keyboard and two way messaging targeting the messaging capability of inReach. And they have a big ass keyboard which is nice if you want to use that (the inReach menu/navigation/built in message creation is pretty much a PITA), but no bluetooth smart phone pairing which does works great with inReach, I'm guessing to to keep battery life good, and maybe reduce software development/support complexity.

[Paul Remde]

I asked my SPOT rep. whether the unit sends altitude data. He first said "Yes. It sends altitude data in messages." - Which I think means a message from person to person. But when I asked whether it can send altitude data with every tracking message, he said he'd check with the technical experts and get back to me. I'll post here when I find-out.

The unit can post to social media sites like Facebook, and it has a built-in digital compass.

I still like the color maps on my Garmin inReach Explorer+ for emergency "hike out" situations. But I only need that when I fly in remote areas in the Western USA. I don't need it when flying over farmland in Minnesota.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 12:04:07 AM UTC-5, Darryl Ramm wrote:
> On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 7:38:43 PM UTC-7, Steve Koerner wrote:
> > > There is no mention whatsoever about altitude in their advertising or the Spot X manual, so I would say no.
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> > Yes, no mention of altitude in the crappy little manual that's currently posted; but there is mention of transmitting elevation if a certain box is checked. Unless there's an onboard database of elevations everywhere, I'm thinking that might actually correspond to transmitting altitude in our use case. We'll have to see. I know Globalstar has been quite thoroughly admonished on the need for altitude reporting for aviation tracking use. It would be awful surprising if they blow that again.
>
> That only seems to apply as a setting for messages, and I took that as a likely settings that are intended to let you control wether coordinate and elevation data is included in your messages, especially since they are also the mechanism where you post to social media.
>
> The device would not need to know elevation data, all it needs to to is set a single bit in those messages that tell the SPOT back-end service to include Google Maps elevation data or not... that's where SPOT today gets tracking elevation data. And they today call 'elevation", hopefully if it was reporting altitude they would not confusingly use "elevation" to also mean "altitude".
>
> Somebody should ping SPOT and ask them, but I'm with Tom here (shock :-)) that if this device included altitude data surely they would promote that at the launch. or even if they were adding it in future they would say so since it's a competitive win for inReach today. it may just be that this is a desire of such a small market they just don't care.
>
> It's intersting/amusing how Spot and Garmin are competing here. Both zig zagging into each other's territory. Gamin went small and just announced the inReach mini I assume in large part to compete with the smaller SPOT Gen 3 trackers for things like the hiking/outdoor market. And Spot then launches the larger Spot X with keyboard and two way messaging targeting the messaging capability of inReach. And they have a big ass keyboard which is nice if you want to use that (the inReach menu/navigation/built in message creation is pretty much a PITA), but no bluetooth smart phone pairing which does works great with inReach, I'm guessing to to keep battery life good, and maybe reduce software development/support complexity.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

My gen 3 spot sends and logs altitude data. Also sends battery status.

[JS[_5_]]

Has anyone got Lockheed Martin Flight Services to link to their InReach?
I've only managed to link to FlightAware.
And does SPOT X claim to link these or similar functions?
Jim

[Paul Remde]

Hi Jonathan,

No. I'm certain that no SPOT device so far has sent altitude data while tracking. I think you are seeing the ground elevation that is displayed by SPOT's web site on the tracking page - which assumes you're on the ground at each location.

Hopefully the SPOT X does sent altitude data while tracking. We should know very soon.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 10:55:37 AM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> My gen 3 spot sends and logs altitude data. Also sends battery status.

[2KA]

Actually Paul, that is incorrect. Spot, starting with Gen 3 sends altitude data -- just not on their own web site. The altitude isn't displayed on the user's Spot shared web page, but is included in the JSON feeds used by glideport.aero and the SSA tracker, as well as on my own home brewed tools. I can assure you that it really is the accurate glider altitude, not the terrain elevation. I have flown with it and used it for almost a year now.

Some Gen 3 users may need to update their firmware to get it to work. And I have noticed that some older Gen 3 units seem to have occasional dropouts on the altitude data. Newer ones seem more reliable.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"

[Paul Remde]

Hi Lynn,

That is great news. I had not heard that.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
________________________

On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 4:52:13 PM UTC-5, 2KA wrote:
> Actually Paul, that is incorrect. Spot, starting with Gen 3 sends altitude data -- just not on their own web site. The altitude isn't displayed on the user's Spot shared web page, but is included in the JSON feeds used by glideport.aero and the SSA tracker, as well as on my own home brewed tools.. I can assure you that it really is the accurate glider altitude, not the terrain elevation. I have flown with it and used it for almost a year now..
>
> Some Gen 3 users may need to update their firmware to get it to work. And I have noticed that some older Gen 3 units seem to have occasional dropouts on the altitude data. Newer ones seem more reliable.
>
> Lynn Alley
> "2KA"

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

As a former mountain guide, I consider the compass somewhat useless, unless you are orienteering or in the "farmland in Minnesota" or any of the other flat, feature challenged, terrain, TX, OK, KS...

Out west, unless you know of a goal, distance and direction, Stay put and press SOS button. If you feel the need to hike out, follow drainage or the road that follows drainage. I couldn't care less if drainage goes north, south, east, or west. Having said the above I do fly with a compass on my paracord bracelet, and on the whistle in my smack pack.

I agree the map is a very handy feature, much better than a compass.


On Sunday, May 13, 2018 at 5:00:09 AM UTC-7, Paul Remde wrote:
>
> ...The unit can post to social media sites like Facebook, and it has a built-in digital compass.
>
> I still like the color maps on my Garmin inReach Explorer+ for emergency "hike out" situations. But I only need that when I fly in remote areas in the Western USA. I don't need it when flying over farmland in Minnesota.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

[[email protected]]

Our Gen 3 spots send altitude in the tracking. It is also available to see on the Spot web site.