Uvalde 1st contest day 8-11-04 #711 reporting

[TomnKeyLargo]

We launched, we flew, it was good. Late afternoon bases above 8,000 msl. Open
Class HW wins, DB 2ond, AS 3rd. 18 Meter, RW wins, F8 2ond, SF 3rd. Folks, I
got to launch twice yesterday. The tow pilot was new, and he went straight up
on me on takeoff, I started to dangle, and whew, I released as I was stalling.
I had enought alitude to pull landing flap which helped me nose over and then
barely got the nose up before a tera firma landing. I had the 27 at 1102 lbs.
and even spoke with the tow pilot on the radio before accepting launch. He had
a problem going slow with another just before me. Thats close, and all I will
say is keep your thoughts together before you fly. A course of action, its a
good idea and I had preped myself for it.We had 9 relights in the 18 meter. We
had several landouts yesterday including P7, DJ, FS ,5A and several others. In
the back of the second turn it got dark and it gulped you down. Pilots meeting
in a few minutes. The point spread in the 18 meter for the top 25 or so is
close as most flew under min time of 3 hrs, and most went 200 to 205. Thermal
tight, Soar high, Fly safe. # 711 thanks God hes still here.

[Andy Durbin]

(TomnKeyLargo) wrote in message >...
The tow pilot was new, and he went straight up
> on me on takeoff, I started to dangle, and whew, I released as I was stalling.
> I had enought alitude to pull landing flap which helped me nose over and then
> barely got the nose up before a tera firma landing. I had the 27 at 1102 lbs.
> and even spoke with the tow pilot on the radio before accepting launch.


One has to wonder who signs off some of these tow pilots. Glad you
survived the experience.

Andy (GY)

[Herbert Kilian]

(Andy Durbin) wrote in message >...
> (TomnKeyLargo) wrote in message >...
> The tow pilot was new, and he went straight up
> > on me on takeoff, I started to dangle, and whew, I released as I was stalling.
> > I had enought alitude to pull landing flap which helped me nose over and then
> > barely got the nose up before a tera firma landing. I had the 27 at 1102 lbs.
> > and even spoke with the tow pilot on the radio before accepting launch.
>
>
> One has to wonder who signs off some of these tow pilots. Glad you
> survived the experience.
>
> Andy (GY)

The answer is, of course, nobody signs them off!
Consider yourself lucky if the chief tow pilot talks to them for 5
minutes before they pick you up. I had a similar experience as
Tommy's in Cordele a couple years back. A crappy looking high-wing
something pulled up ahead of me and I thought well, this could be
interesting. Glad I remembered his call-sign because he rotated at 50
knots with my '24 still rolling at 9lb wingloading. I yelled at him
to speed up and kept telling him that all down the long Cordele
runway. I never indicated more than 59 knots when he pulled me just
over the trees at the end of the runway. He then turned and proceeded
to tow me downwind without gaining much. I released at 1,500'
something like 15 minutes later with me still shaking. I should have
pulled the release when I still had time just like Tommy did. As a
result of this drama the towpilot was relegated to only tow Sports
Class, btw...

Herb, J7

[T-Man]

There's nothing worse than to be topped off with water and saying "another
15 kts please" over and over with each iteration rising an octave as you say
it. Tom did the right thing...except now he needs to take the tow pilot
behind the woodshed for a "readjustment of his towing procedures!"

Tim Mc


PS: the above is only in jest lest someone think I'm a violent person :-)


"Andy Durbin" > wrote in message
om...
> (TomnKeyLargo) wrote in message
>...
> The tow pilot was new, and he went straight up
> > on me on takeoff, I started to dangle, and whew, I released as I was
stalling.
> > I had enought alitude to pull landing flap which helped me nose over and
then
> > barely got the nose up before a tera firma landing. I had the 27 at 1102
lbs.
> > and even spoke with the tow pilot on the radio before accepting launch.
>
>
> One has to wonder who signs off some of these tow pilots. Glad you
> survived the experience.
>
> Andy (GY)

[John Bojack]

Beware the new tow pilot who has never towed a ballasted glider. No matter
how many times you tell them before the launch about the need for more
speed, they usually never give enough. Hard to break old habits!

J4

[BGMIFF]

I see this as one of the areas that contests could improve upon. Most chief
tow pilot's think that their job is just a title that was given to the most
senior of the towpilot's. Not true. The other problem here is, towpilot's
that fly in right before launch time, and get in line without ever getting a
briefing. I flew in to one last week, but I shut down as the launch was
started already, and talked to the CD and ops manager about where the drop
zone is and what the procedures are.They know me, as I have towed there
before, but it is still the safest way to proceed. After that, I climbed in
my ship and towed. having been a ground ops manger many times, I hate to see
a guy show up, hook up, and go wallowing out at 55 knots with a glider full
of water. When are we going to wake up, after we have stalled someone into
the ground because of poor communication. WAKE UP guys, we don't need this.
I know 711 very well, he is a very good pilot, and a safety conscious one.
He released, but not all would. To all chief tow pilot's.....please
communicate and give orders, better to sound bossy than complacent!!!

BG

"Herbert Kilian" > wrote in message
om...
> (Andy Durbin) wrote in message
>...
> > (TomnKeyLargo) wrote in message
>...
> > The tow pilot was new, and he went straight up
> > > on me on takeoff, I started to dangle, and whew, I released as I was
stalling.
> > > I had enought alitude to pull landing flap which helped me nose over
and then
> > > barely got the nose up before a tera firma landing. I had the 27 at
1102 lbs.
> > > and even spoke with the tow pilot on the radio before accepting
launch.
> >
> >
> > One has to wonder who signs off some of these tow pilots. Glad you
> > survived the experience.
> >
> > Andy (GY)
>
> The answer is, of course, nobody signs them off!
> Consider yourself lucky if the chief tow pilot talks to them for 5
> minutes before they pick you up. I had a similar experience as
> Tommy's in Cordele a couple years back. A crappy looking high-wing
> something pulled up ahead of me and I thought well, this could be
> interesting. Glad I remembered his call-sign because he rotated at 50
> knots with my '24 still rolling at 9lb wingloading. I yelled at him
> to speed up and kept telling him that all down the long Cordele
> runway. I never indicated more than 59 knots when he pulled me just
> over the trees at the end of the runway. He then turned and proceeded
> to tow me downwind without gaining much. I released at 1,500'
> something like 15 minutes later with me still shaking. I should have
> pulled the release when I still had time just like Tommy did. As a
> result of this drama the towpilot was relegated to only tow Sports
> Class, btw...
>
> Herb, J7

[Andy Durbin]

(Herbert Kilian) wrote in message >

> The answer is, of course, nobody signs them off!

I have trained more than one tow pilot and I was careful to brief them
on the differences in towing light and heavy gliders. My training
included reduced power takeoffs to simulate the slow acceleration and
climbout with a ballasted ship. I then gave them the FAA required tow
pilot endorsement.

Someone signed off this pilot or he was not legal to tow. Do contest
organizers have an obligation to check tow pilot credentials and
experience?


Andy

[Herbert Kilian]

(Andy Durbin) wrote in message >...
> (Herbert Kilian) wrote in message >
>
> > The answer is, of course, nobody signs them off!
>
> I have trained more than one tow pilot and I was careful to brief them
> on the differences in towing light and heavy gliders. My training
> included reduced power takeoffs to simulate the slow acceleration and
> climbout with a ballasted ship. I then gave them the FAA required tow
> pilot endorsement.
>
> Someone signed off this pilot or he was not legal to tow. Do contest
> organizers have an obligation to check tow pilot credentials and
> experience?
>
>
> Andy

Sorry, Andy, I was being facetious in my statement. I have trained
and signed off new towpilots and I know how seriously many (most)
chief tow pilots take their responsibility in contests. If things get
hectic and tow-ships go kaput right before or during the launch there
is a tendency to compromise, however. I do maintain that pilots
sometimes are asked to tow that have no training and thus no business
in doing so (here in the US at least). As we have heard, that's a
recipe for disaster, especially when the glider is ballasted. We were
at a contest in Littlefield TX about 10 years back when Ron Clarke had
to release his LS6 due to low tow speeds and heavily damaged it flying
through the airport fence. It could have been worse...
Herb, J7

[Mark James Boyd]

In the USA,

Sec. 91.309 - Towing: Gliders.

(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft towing a glider unless --
(5) The pilots of the towing aircraft and the glider have agreed upon
a general course of action, including takeoff and release signals,
airspeeds, and emergency procedures for each pilot.

One would hope a tuggie, properly trained or not, would at least
follow the regulation...

Herbert Kilian > wrote:
(Andy Durbin) wrote in message >...
>> (Herbert Kilian) wrote in message >
>>
>> > The answer is, of course, nobody signs them off!
>>
>> I have trained more than one tow pilot and I was careful to brief them
>> on the differences in towing light and heavy gliders. My training
>> included reduced power takeoffs to simulate the slow acceleration and
>> climbout with a ballasted ship. I then gave them the FAA required tow
>> pilot endorsement.
>>
>> Someone signed off this pilot or he was not legal to tow. Do contest
>> organizers have an obligation to check tow pilot credentials and
>> experience?
>
>Sorry, Andy, I was being facetious in my statement. I have trained
>and signed off new towpilots and I know how seriously many (most)
>chief tow pilots take their responsibility in contests. If things get
>hectic and tow-ships go kaput right before or during the launch there
>is a tendency to compromise, however. I do maintain that pilots
>sometimes are asked to tow that have no training and thus no business
>in doing so (here in the US at least). As we have heard, that's a
>recipe for disaster, especially when the glider is ballasted. We were
>at a contest in Littlefield TX about 10 years back when Ron Clarke had
>to release his LS6 due to low tow speeds and heavily damaged it flying
>through the airport fence. It could have been worse...
>Herb, J7




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA