1202 Transponder Squawk Code - In a Tow Plane?

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Just wondering about something.

Those of us with transponders in our gliders squawk 1202. Hurrah for our unique code. As I understand it other VFR aircraft with transponders typically squawk 1200.

I would assume that at many gliderports few of the gliders have a transponder due to the cost and them not being required (but the trend is towards getting them). On the other hand tow planes would be more likely to have a transponder.

I suppose that the answer will be "no" but I thought it might be interesting to ask the question >>> Is it legal for the tow plane to squawk 1202 instead of 1200? This could let the controllers know GLIDERS are in the area and might "scare away" the heavy traffic. Plus the non-circling tow plane would be less likely to be confused for a flock of circling birds!

I anticipate that someone will mention that their operation always calls the FAA before each day's operation to alert them. Good idea! But having actual "glider" traffic being seen on radar might be even better.

Humbly Submitted in My Ignorance,
Let the Hazing Begin,
John OHM Ω

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

I will start with......I don't know.

I will say, your idea may have valid points that are worthwhile. Agreed, I don't believe any of our ships (tug, club ships, private ships) have transponders. Letting NY TRACON (or whomever controls your area, I fly in the NY metro area) see "gliders" may help keep heavy iron above cloud base until closer to their destination.

[Paul Agnew]

When we were using a tow plane with a transponder, I spoke with Vero Beach tower and they agreed that having the tow plane squawk 1202 made sense if it was on a towing mission. And, no need to switch to 1200 when the glider is released and the tow plane is heading back to the gliderport. They prefer to know who you are and what kind of operation you are doing. Thus, 1202 helped them sort us out from other GA traffic.

If in doubt, contact your closest tower or Tracon.

Paul A.

[Tony[_5_]]

Not unless your local ATC assigns it

[kirk.stant]

All three of our towplanes have unique ATC assigned (by letter) squawks, to be used when actively towing gliders.

Transponder-equipped private gliders use the standard 1202 code.

Kirk
SLSA

[OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 12:48:16 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
> All three of our towplanes have unique ATC assigned (by letter) squawks, to be used when actively towing gliders.
>
> Transponder-equipped private gliders use the standard 1202 code.
>
> Kirk
> SLSA

Kirk - So those are permanently assigned squawks? How did you go about that?

[V1[_4_]]

Back in 2012, I coordinated an agreement with the FAA for the Houston area for tow planes to squawk 1202. It was a LONG process, took about 6 - 9 months if I remember correctly. Besides agreeing the policy (more complicated than we anticipated), they needed time to roll it out internally (i.e., to train) all their staff, which meant waiting for their normal training cycles.. A link for a copy of our policy is below. Bottom line – it was a good thing to do, but it does require upfront effort.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RR0ISuE1T7B0e1LEmwg0lY78lYTnJ7tD0B7eNfgGGbI/edit

- Frank Allen

[Mike Schumann[_2_]]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:21:35 AM UTC-5, OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote:
> Just wondering about something.
>
> Those of us with transponders in our gliders squawk 1202. Hurrah for our unique code. As I understand it other VFR aircraft with transponders typically squawk 1200.
>
> I would assume that at many gliderports few of the gliders have a transponder due to the cost and them not being required (but the trend is towards getting them). On the other hand tow planes would be more likely to have a transponder.
>
> I suppose that the answer will be "no" but I thought it might be interesting to ask the question >>> Is it legal for the tow plane to squawk 1202 instead of 1200? This could let the controllers know GLIDERS are in the area and might "scare away" the heavy traffic. Plus the non-circling tow plane would be less likely to be confused for a flock of circling birds!
>
> I anticipate that someone will mention that their operation always calls the FAA before each day's operation to alert them. Good idea! But having actual "glider" traffic being seen on radar might be even better.
>
> Humbly Submitted in My Ignorance,
> Let the Hazing Begin,
> John OHM Ω

Personally I think squawking 1202 makes a lot of sense. On the other hand common sense is not always the FAA's strong suite.

I always squawk 1202 in my Phoenix Motorglider. When I am flying cross country, 95% of the enroute and tower controllers I talk to are completely unaware that 1202 is the national VFR squawk code for gliders. Half the time, when they do know this, they make a big deal about the fact that the National Beacon Code Allocation Plan specified in FAA Order 7110.66E specifies that 1202 is the VFR code for gliders only when "not in contact with ATC". This is the same language that applied to the 1200 squawk code in FAA Order 7110.66D. The latest order fixed this so that 1200 is the valid VFR squawk code whether or not an aircraft is talking to ATC, but the FAA overlooked correcting this for the 1202 squawk code.

I typically run into this while landing at towered airports. I have talked to Steve Nordstrom at the SSA and a couple of other folks at AOPA to try to get this fixed, so the language for squawk code 1202 matches that for 1200. I'm not getting anywhere.....

I would strongly encourage you to visit your local towers and TRACONs and talk to them about this and about your glider operation in general. Most of the TRACON controllers are totally clueless about the number of gliders that are operating invisibly in their vicinity. We regularly see arriving jets flying 4,000 ft over LaBelle FL on approach to Ft. Myers, just 20 miles west while we have gliders in the air up to 5-6K ft. There was also a well publicized near miss at 7,000 ft over Janesville WI between a glider and a UA 737 on arrival to ORD last summer.

When you squawk 1202, the default controller display will show this squawk code (VFR targets show altitude only), so this is a really good way to let controllers know that there is glider activity in the area. However, I would make sure you discuss this with your local ATC facilities and make sure they are OK with using this in a tow plane and that they also understand that there may be a lot of other gliders flying up to cloud base significant distances from their launch points.

[RV 6 Driver]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 12:48:16 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
> All three of our towplanes have unique ATC assigned (by letter) squawks, to be used when actively towing gliders.
>
> Transponder-equipped private gliders use the standard 1202 code.
>
> Kirk
> SLSA

Correction Kirk SLSA only has 2 towplanes...

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 3:59:29 PM UTC-5, RV 6 Driver wrote:
> On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 12:48:16 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:
> > All three of our towplanes have unique ATC assigned (by letter) squawks, to be used when actively towing gliders.
> >
> > Transponder-equipped private gliders use the standard 1202 code.
> >
> > Kirk
> > SLSA
>
> Correction Kirk SLSA only has 2 towplanes...

Ha ha. Inside joke, folks...

66

[kirk.stant]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 1:11:14 PM UTC-5, OHM Ω
>
> Kirk - So those are permanently assigned squawks? How did you go about that?

We have several members in the FAA or who work closely with the FAA. I assume they coordinated with our TRACON to establish the individual unique codes for each of our 2 Pawnees and Supercub. We have a letter on file with the codes, which are only to be used when actively towing gliders.

Kirk