Any details on Nephi incident?

[Chris]

Is everybody alright?

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

One injured. Expected to be discharged for hospital today.
There are NO details.
UH

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

http://midutahradio.com/news/local-news/two-recovering-from-plane-crash-in-sevier-county/

Delorme track last point was up high.


Steve Leonard

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 9:05:19 AM UTC-7, Steve Leonard wrote:
> http://midutahradio.com/news/local-news/two-recovering-from-plane-crash-in-sevier-county/

Wow, nasty place to land under a chute.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery for Dave!

5Z

[Paul Agnew]

Rough spot to land under silk, indeed.

Very happy to hear Dave Nadler and his rider are okay. I hope we get a good debrief on what happened when he's up to it.

I had a blast and gained a lot of confidence flying as self-loading ballast with Dave in the 2017 Seniors (for a donation to the Junior Soaring Team, of course.)

Paul A.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Nasty place (based on limited area knowledge) to land ANYTHING let alone a chute. Pictures don't look inviting. Glad one was well enough to walk out and get help.

Dave/"YO", when you come back on here, glad both of you are sorta OK. Sucks it happened, glad it wasn't worse.

Hope things go well from here out.

PS, all other speculation on weather, what was going on in flight, ELT's, etc. should wait.

Thanks for the heads up though.

[[email protected]]

Heal fast. Looking at the picture I'm going to suggest a ram air parachute might have avoided a lot of pain. If you can afford one upgrade, if you are buying a new one get square. The difference is multiples greater than the difference between a 1-26 and an ASH-31. If you pay attention to all the bailout reports landing injuries are fairly common, because we aren't in pain and the no parachute option is worse we forget about it. If you ever have to parachute into some unpleasant place and you'll wish you spent the extra 500 bucks.

[Waveguru]

Can you get an emergency chute in ram air? This is from a parachute web site. “Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special training in the use and performance of these canopies�

Boggs

[Paul Agnew]

Yes, you can get a ram-air chute. I think their statement is perfectly clear. Get training or have skydiving experience with a ram-air chute and we'll sell you one. Not much ambiguity that I see.

PA

[Paul Agnew]

Without getting into baseless speculation, has anyone heard anything about why they had to bailout?

PA

[[email protected]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 2:34:03 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> Can you get an emergency chute in ram air? This is from a parachute web site. “Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special training in the use and performance of these canopies�
>
> Boggs

Yes. Rigging Innovations has two different models. Standard and Sport. Both ram air parachutes the difference is the standard is sold larger per pilot weight and is somewhat neutered with longer brake lines. It will turn slower and not flare as strongly as a proper ram air. Less likely to stall it or turn hard into the ground with the longer brake lines. The sport uses standard skydiving ram air reserves and for that one they want specific training or experience. Take your pick, either one is light years ahead of a round.

[WaltWX[_2_]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 8:24:17 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

Oh my... so glad everyone is all right. I encouraged one of my friends, Richard Starke, to fly with Dave the on theday before. You never know what's going to happen with our equipment or environment even though we have decades of experience.

Walt Rogers WX

[Tango Whisky]

I have one, Paratec Aviator.
You can fly it, but you don't need to.

[JS[_5_]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 9:00:40 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> > Is everybody alright?
>
> One injured. Expected to be discharged for hospital today.
> There are NO details.
> UH

Hope Dave is OK, looks like the landing wasn't optimal.
Jim

[Frank Whiteley]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 4:48:50 PM UTC-6, JS wrote:
> On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 9:00:40 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> > On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> > > Is everybody alright?
> >
> > One injured. Expected to be discharged for hospital today.
> > There are NO details.
> > UH
>
> Hope Dave is OK, looks like the landing wasn't optimal.
> Jim

He's back at Nephi, rather shaken as one might imagine.

[JS[_5_]]

Thanks Frank, that's great news.
Walking?
More than likely he'll be asked to give a safety talk, which would be very interesting.
Jim

[Dan Marotta]

I fly with an Aviator P124 from Rigging Innovations
<http://www.rigginginnovations.com/containers/p124>.Â* This is an
emergency parachute.Â* IIRC I paid around $2,700 for it.Â* They
recommended training and I got some at the local jump club.Â* Having had
the Air Force training with round chutes and jumping with the
rectangular, I would never again consider wearing a round chute if a
rectangular is available.

Good luck for a quick recovery to Dave and passenger.

On 6/22/2018 12:34 PM, Waveguru wrote:
> Can you get an emergency chute in ram air? This is from a parachute web site. “Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special training in the use and performance of these canopies�
>
> Boggs

--
Dan, 5J

[Paul Agnew]

Another news article.

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46347968&nid=148&title=its-a-miracle-to-us-that-theyre-both-alive-2-walk-away-after-bailing-from-falling-glider

PA

[[email protected]]

> He's back at Nephi, rather shaken as one might imagine.

That really good news.

Eventually we'll learn what sequence of events made the chutes more attractive than the glider and why there were no InReach tracking points after 4:26 pm.

[Waveguru]

I am so glad to hear everyone is going to be ok. It is torture waiting to hear if this was structural failure, or an unrecoverable spin, or what.....

Boggs

[Waveguru]

So, the first accounts of what may have happened indicate some kind of rudder control failure. Looking forward to the rest of the story....

[[email protected]]

On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 9:11:16 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> So, the first accounts of what may have happened indicate some kind of rudder control failure. Looking forward to the rest of the story....

Is there a need to get ahead of the story?
UH

[Waveguru]

Is there a need for secrecy?

Boggs

[Ramy[_2_]]

If I had an Arcus I sure would want to hear more before my next flight.
There were multiple rudder failures over the years, resulting in at least one bail out few years ago, and another almost bail out, due to the cable breaking at the point it exits the rudder pedal. This is an area each pilot should inspect regularly. In other cases the pedals got disengaged from the lock position.
Also if you have a passenger, it is always a good idea to check if they still have control. At least one bail out was prevented in the last moment this way.
Not saying this is what happened, just a reminder of what can and did happen before.
So glad Dave and his passenger are ok. We had enough bad news this year already.

Ramy

[Waveguru]

Come on Dave, give us the story....

Boggs

[Ben Hirashima]

Someone named Daniel Sazhin posted something about it on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soarer151/posts/10216332921178095

"Sorry for not posting yesterday. Dave Nadler's accident took the wind out of my sails. Luckily, he and his passenger parachuted to safety and they are OK! Dave is a bit banged up from his landing, but otherwise discharged from the hospital and okay. The air force kid was totally fine. It seems it was some kind of structural failure, with the rudder control failing in some fashion. Details are quite murky and speculative, but it seems bizarre."

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

How about we all just tone it down a bit on pressuring for "the scoop". Dave and Spence both went through something pretty traumatic. Put yourself in their shoes. You jumped out of a plane, landed on a rocky slope on the side of a mountain, and were there without shade or water for hours. Now, you have people asking you "What happened?" Heck, it may be weeks before they remember the sequence of events. If you have an Arcus and are now afraid to fly it, well, I would say that is your problem, not Dave's.

Steve Leonard

[Roy B.]

How about we all just tone it down a bit on pressuring for "the scoop".

Thanks Steve. That really needed to be said.
ROY

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Agreed......basically my thoughts on my earlier post.
Glad they are basically fine.

I am sure Dave will give info, maybe tempered by official analysis as to NOT make other issues.

Glad they are able to give thoughts later.
The quest for info, or, worse, armchair quarterbacking is not needed now.
Wait for facts.

I believe that is what the "real UH" was alluding to.

As an aside, yes, maybe other Arcus owners need to look at rudder cables......but, this is just speculation at this point.....

[john firth]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

Has it not occurred to you all that Dave may not know what actually failed,
and is wisely waiting for wreckage to be examined before making a statement?

John F

[john firth]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

Has it not occurred to you all that until the wreckage is examined,
Dave is wisely refraining from commenting?
(( legal liability ?)

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

To me?.....yes.
Thus my previous comments other than, "they are around to make comments at some point".

Glad they may make comments later.....better than losing peeps.......

[Retting]

Like the FAA or NTSB really gives a rats as_ what anyone speculates. So what, everyone at Nephi and the world is forbidden to discuss the accident out of some paranoidic induce phobia to not being correct? The pilot will ride his destiny on the facts as they reveal themselves regardless of the expected bull and yack that is created by misfortune. We’re not talking about rape or illegitimate children.
Should I ever dick it up or have a very bad day, I give permission to everyone to speculate, ponder, infer, judge, heckle, broadcast, embellish, gather the kids, poke the wife,husband, and run nakid thru the night on my behalf.
And should I live.....bring your liquor because you’re going to hear a hell of a story.
R

[[email protected]]

The JS1 rudder cable “S� bend issue, and resulting bailout, come to mind.

[Karl Striedieck[_2_]]

Here's what I've heard third hand. Apologies to YO for inaccuracies.


Some sort of rudder control failure made the ship uncontrollable, so Dave opted for bailout. AFA cadet had no problems getting out and good chute. Dave had trouble getting out, lost his glasses, the wings came off, finally got out low, trouble finding rip cord, found it and the chute opened seconds from the ground!! Cadet walked out (three hours) got rescue going and a helicopter found Dave. He has a fractured vertebrae which the docs say is no problem, and a broken rib or two. They were near Richfield, UT flying in the Nephi standard national contest.

KS









On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

[Robert Fidler[_2_]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 11:24:17 AM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

Dave Nadler has been a great ambassador for soaring in this country for a very long time. I can not imagine what soaring in this country would be without him.
Dave did everything correctly when it came to understanding his glider and always offered help to people willing to listen and learn. His knowledge and experience is why he and his passenger survived. This should be a lesson for all of us.

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Ummmmm......OK.

Have you considered peeps out of aviation may stumble across this?!

Random "Monday morning quarterbacking" may scare some peeps away?

I will guess......no.

I prefer facts, especially when someone with direct knowledge can comment. Without that, I prefer to wait foe an NTSB report.

Dave...."YO", I broke my back (T10) 35 years ago, broke it again about 1.5 years ago (L1.......,rods and screws this time).
I can understand the pain.
I can sympathize.

Email me if need be.
Yes, I still do most things, sucky weather is a PITA.

Glad you are around to comment down the road.

[Dave Nadler]

First thanks to all for copious sympathy emails, texts, and calls.
Passenger is AOK, and I'll be absolutely fine though I'm banged up.
I am really not sure what went wrong and would prefer to refrain from speculation.
NTSB will work with LBA to try establish what happened, and it will take time,
after they find the pieces.

We were very fortunate to be 9,000 above terrain when things went south,
and needed all of it. Strong round chutes performed perfectly despite my
deployment face-up.

PLEASE review how you've attached your trackers to your chutes.
My Inreach was in the nice pouch supplied by Strong, unfortunately closed with velcro. Unhappily it was no longer in the pouch when I touched down.
Plastic clip-ons, velcro, or other light fastener will NOT survive
the violence of this kind of exit. No ELT either.

Thanks again for all the support, really appreciated.
Best Regards, Dave

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Hey, thanks for checking in.

I believe the "real UH" has rethought where to keep his tracker/PLB. So, some good came from this.

You should have an email from me, I know back pain........

[[email protected]]

A very professional and human post, Dave. So glad you and passenger are all right.


Gary Osoba

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

Relieved to hear you are still with us Dave. Best wishes for your recovery.

[Mike the Strike]

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 1:45:40 AM UTC+1, Dave Nadler wrote:
> First thanks to all for copious sympathy emails, texts, and calls.
> Passenger is AOK, and I'll be absolutely fine though I'm banged up.
> I am really not sure what went wrong and would prefer to refrain from speculation.
> NTSB will work with LBA to try establish what happened, and it will take time,
> after they find the pieces.
>
> We were very fortunate to be 9,000 above terrain when things went south,
> and needed all of it. Strong round chutes performed perfectly despite my
> deployment face-up.
>
> PLEASE review how you've attached your trackers to your chutes.
> My Inreach was in the nice pouch supplied by Strong, unfortunately closed with velcro. Unhappily it was no longer in the pouch when I touched down.
> Plastic clip-ons, velcro, or other light fastener will NOT survive
> the violence of this kind of exit. No ELT either.
>
> Thanks again for all the support, really appreciated.
> Best Regards, Dave

As an older pilot with some mobility issues, I've been concerned about exiting a broken glider that might be creating extra difficulty through rotation or attitude as well as locating the parachute release after losing my glasses.

I'd wondered about devices that assist exit as well as a static line. Any thoughts you'd like to share, Dave?

Mike

[[email protected]]

I had a very similar experience in Namibia in 2016, but with an Nimbus 4DM.

It will be interesting to have the Schempp-Hirtz position….

The main problem to extract from the front place is due to the slippering surface for the shoes and so I just push with my arms.

[[email protected]]

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 9:38:09 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> I had a very similar experience in Namibia in 2016, but with an Nimbus 4DM.
>
> It will be interesting to have the Schempp-Hirtz position….
>
> The main problem to extract from the front place is due to the slippering surface for the shoes and so I just push with my arms.

I fitted into the front foot-well of a Duo the same ridged foot-grip pads that are fitted by the factory for the rear pilot for exactly that reason.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 11:51:00 PM UTC-7, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 1:45:40 AM UTC+1, Dave Nadler wrote:
> > First thanks to all for copious sympathy emails, texts, and calls.
> > Passenger is AOK, and I'll be absolutely fine though I'm banged up.
> > I am really not sure what went wrong and would prefer to refrain from speculation.
> > NTSB will work with LBA to try establish what happened, and it will take time,
> > after they find the pieces.
> >
> > We were very fortunate to be 9,000 above terrain when things went south,
> > and needed all of it. Strong round chutes performed perfectly despite my
> > deployment face-up.
> >
> > PLEASE review how you've attached your trackers to your chutes.
> > My Inreach was in the nice pouch supplied by Strong, unfortunately closed with velcro. Unhappily it was no longer in the pouch when I touched down..
> > Plastic clip-ons, velcro, or other light fastener will NOT survive
> > the violence of this kind of exit. No ELT either.
> >
> > Thanks again for all the support, really appreciated.
> > Best Regards, Dave
>
> As an older pilot with some mobility issues, I've been concerned about exiting a broken glider that might be creating extra difficulty through rotation or attitude as well as locating the parachute release after losing my glasses.
>
> I'd wondered about devices that assist exit as well as a static line. Any thoughts you'd like to share, Dave?
>
> Mike

DG makes a NOAH system. https://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/en/library/emergency_bailout_aid-noah The site says the NOAH is also available for many SH and AS gliders. Not sure which ones but I have seen both a ventus 2 and ASG 29 with NOAH systems. Literature says it adds 3.5 kg.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 6:45:40 PM UTC-6, Dave Nadler wrote:
> First thanks to all for copious sympathy emails, texts, and calls.
> Passenger is AOK, and I'll be absolutely fine though I'm banged up.
> I am really not sure what went wrong and would prefer to refrain from speculation.
> NTSB will work with LBA to try establish what happened, and it will take time,
> after they find the pieces.
>
> We were very fortunate to be 9,000 above terrain when things went south,
> and needed all of it. Strong round chutes performed perfectly despite my
> deployment face-up.
>
> PLEASE review how you've attached your trackers to your chutes.
> My Inreach was in the nice pouch supplied by Strong, unfortunately closed with velcro. Unhappily it was no longer in the pouch when I touched down.
> Plastic clip-ons, velcro, or other light fastener will NOT survive
> the violence of this kind of exit. No ELT either.
>
> Thanks again for all the support, really appreciated.
> Best Regards, Dave

How about a shout out to the rigger who packed those Strong rigs whoever he or she may be? Always appreciate your rigger folks. Their skill and attention to detail can help with the quick openings these rigs are designed to provide. They can surely assist in a positive outcome like this one. And if you've never pulled your parachute ripcord, next repack ask your rigger if you can don your rig and pull. He/she is going to pull it anyway. you might as well feel it for yourself. Glad everyone is safe.
Snackmaster

[[email protected]]

Skydive tradition is you get your rigger his prefferred bottle of booze after using his reserve pack job.

[[email protected]]

This seems a 2 bottle event. With parachutes, it is generally good form not to share, that is to have one per pilot.

Aside from the how to attach the PLB lesson, perhaps another is to rethink the 'P' in PLB. The same no sharing rule might be useful here.

[Paul Agnew]

Have they recovered the glider, yet?

[[email protected]]

It will be one year in a couple days. Any further news on the cause of the rudder failure?

[Joel Flamenbaum[_2_]]

On Friday, June 22, 2018 at 8:24:17 AM UTC-7, Chris wrote:
> Is everybody alright?

Best wishes and a speedy recovery -

[Paul Agnew]

I hope there is no correlation with yesterday's tragedy in Nephi.

Another ArcusM... The coincidence is surreal.

PA

[ripacheco1967]

Optics terrible.