So the Discus 2 is 20 years old this year.

[Paul T[_4_]]

Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for

a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?

[[email protected]]

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 3:15:06 PM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
> Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
> performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
> unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for
>
> a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?

Both
UH

[[email protected]]

Next big jump will be in materials, lighter and stronger of course that = more $$$$$$

[kinsell]

On 07/02/2018 01:09 PM, Paul T wrote:
> Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
> performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
> unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for
>
> a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?
>
>
>

The mainstream vendors are shipping 80-90% of their production as
powered gliders now, those with gasoline engines generally need 18M or
more to keep the wing loading reasonable. The strength improvements
with carbon fiber are being used to increase the aspect ratios, which
gives getter performance. Looks like the vendors have largely lost
interest in standard class ships, along with the customer base.

[[email protected]]

While announcing the new neo-winglets for the LS8, DG stated that similar improvements to standard class gliders can be achieved through upgrades compared to a completely new development. The economic risk is far lower, though. The LS8 is back in production since 2017. A similar upgrade is available to the ASW24 whose successor never really made it into the Standard class ranks.

Same goes for Schempp-Hirth who added the FES to their D2c design. This model became quite popular in the last years. In 2017, the 2nd place in 15m-German nationals was achieved in an D2a.

[[email protected]]

So, 80-90% of the production from mainstream companies are now “airplanes”, albeit with high aspect ratio wings.
How sad.

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:15:06 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
> performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
> unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for
>
> a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?

I lament the passing of interest in this class. My first glider was an ASW-24. I had 75 hours in Grob's/ ASK-21's and baby Grob's. Taught myself XC flying in that bird. Standard is as simple as it gets, so you can concentrate on our early xc adventures, plus it has lots of performance. I had a goal of getting 400 hours that year, flew every chance I got, played hooky from work, took soaring vacations, ended the year with 275 hours and a boat lot of experience flying the Sierra Mountains. If I had super powers I would have Standard class, eighteen meter, and open. The standards could be 15 meter or 15/18 meter. The eighteen meter birds would be 18 or 18/21 and the glorious open birds would be legal to 900Kg.

[[email protected]]

What is there to lament? I think it's great we have a step between club class and 15m - costs about halfway (or less) than the 15/18 classes but still high performance and ballasted.

On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 12:27:45 AM UTC+2, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
> On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:15:06 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> > Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
> > performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
> > unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for
> >
> > a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?
>
> I lament the passing of interest in this class. My first glider was an ASW-24. I had 75 hours in Grob's/ ASK-21's and baby Grob's. Taught myself XC flying in that bird. Standard is as simple as it gets, so you can concentrate on our early xc adventures, plus it has lots of performance. I had a goal of getting 400 hours that year, flew every chance I got, played hooky from work, took soaring vacations, ended the year with 275 hours and a boat lot of experience flying the Sierra Mountains. If I had super powers I would have Standard class, eighteen meter, and open. The standards could be 15 meter or 15/18 meter. The eighteen meter birds would be 18 or 18/21 and the glorious open birds would be legal to 900Kg.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 7/3/2018 2:59 PM:
> So, 80-90% of the production from mainstream companies are now “airplanes”, albeit with high aspect ratio wings.
> How sad.

I have a motorglider and an "airplane". There is a big difference between the two,
and both make me smile when I fly them. I also flew unpowered gliders for 2500
hours, and smiled the whole time.

Be glad we have choices, not sad that others don't share yours.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/Guide-to-transponders-in-sailplanes-2014A.pdf

[kinsell]

On 07/15/2018 09:45 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> wrote on 7/3/2018 2:59 PM:
>> So, 80-90% of the production from mainstream companies are now
>> “airplanes”, albeit with high aspect ratio wings.
>> How sad.
>
> I have a motorglider and an "airplane". There is a big difference
> between the two, and both make me smile when I fly them. I also flew
> unpowered gliders for 2500 hours, and smiled the whole time.
>
> Be glad we have choices, not sad that others don't share yours.
>

I think everyone should be forced to fly a primary glider launched by
bungee cords off a hilltop. Flying a standard class launched by
towplane is cheating by comparison. Heaven forbid there should ever be
advancements in the sport!

[2G]

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 12:15:06 PM UTC-7, Paul T wrote:
> Makes you wonder it all that time why there hasn't been a better
> performing Standard Class machine. Have we reached the limits of modern
> unflapped aerodynamics, or is simply that there is no perceived demand for
>
> a new standard glass glider and therefore not economic to produce?

The majority of new gliders being shipped into the US are motorgliders: I WOULD NOT want to fly a non-flapped (standard class) motorglider. Furthermore, the slight cost savings eliminating flaps yields is infinitesimal compared to the total cost of the glider (ask me how I know).

Tom